DO now or MD in 1-2 years?

[Ian1223]

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****I know this is a double post, but I want both MD and DO opinions. Moderators: Please don't close me. 🙂

Guys and gals, I need some help making a decision.

I'm a senior rounding out the application cycle. Had one interview at Drexel, havent heard back yet.

I have the option of applying D.O. right now at LECOM and, if I'm accepted, living the next 4 years with my girlfriend who will probably be my wife when I graduate or taking another undergraduate year to raise my GPA and apply to MD then. I love the idea of LECOM and the DO philosophy too but I dont want to go if MD will be better for my career or if DO will be a substantial setback for my career. But on the otherhand being with my girlfriend could make things exponentially less stressful. My passion for MD or DO is the same (and substantial).

I applied relatively broadly, 16 schools. Only 4 rejections so far.

Stats:
MCAT 32P
GPA
FR 3.1
SO 3.3
JU 3.9
SE* 3.9

*Fall only

Getting the A's isnt a problem for me anymore.

Which is better for my career, MD or DO? Ive researched both and the only significant difference I could find is the lack of respect for DOs from MDs.

How much will this hamper my future career?

Are DOs really on the rise, or will their admissions stats always just flounder right below MD?

What is the right decision?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Your GPA is average around a 3.5 and your MCAT is above average. There must be other deficiencies in your applicaiton. Bad attitude in PS or interviews, no volunteering, little clinical experience, no research....

In the future do not post the same thread in multiple forums.

MD will open more doors and provide an easier path than DO will. Both will allow you to become a physician. I chose to do more classes and then apply to MD again.

 

[hum3a]

^ what he said. Did you apply late? I would try the DO school cuz I wouldn't wanna waste a year after college. But I think you would be happier at an MD program where the students will be more "intellectually stimulating" and around your age.

 

[VoiceofReason]

Yeah your numbers actually look fine in my opinion. Strong upward trend and unless I and the poster above me are reading it wrong you should have a 3.5.

Must be a void in your work and activities section, how does that look?

 

[Ian1223]

For more details about my app, read my mdapplicants profile.

I'm proud of my extracurriculars, is anything missing?

Sorry about the double post. I wanted both DO and MD opinions.

 

[fireflygirl]

^ what he said. Did you apply late? I would try the DO school cuz I wouldn't wanna waste a year after college. But I think you would be happier at an MD program where the students will be more "intellectually stimulating" and around your age.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to apply to an awesome place like PCOM where people like me who have about 5 years of life experience after undergrad will be going, because frankly, you couldn't learn anything from people that aren't your age, since we aren't that "intellectually stimulating".

 

[hum3a]

your app is definitely better than mine in every aspect. Except i had a 3.7. I think another problem u have is florida is very competitive and going out of state is very hard to do.

 

[Haemulon]

Yeah, you wouldn't want to apply to an awesome place like PCOM where people like me who have about 5 years of life experience after undergrad will be going, because frankly, you couldn't learn anything from people that aren't your age, since we aren't that "intellectually stimulating".

I think that the comment was probably referring to MD vers DO, and not age. Either way though this topic has the potential to quickly turn into a flame war. I do not think either age or MD/DO degree can be generalized to imply different degrees of intellectual stimulation. But certainly different schools may offer different types of learning environments via program styles, philosophies of learning, facilities, and a myriad of other considerations. My advice to the OP would be to look closely at all of the schools he is considering (MD or DO) and see if something stands out. The key really is to gather as much information as possible and then make an informed decision. Of course, into this consideration is the time factor of whether to wait or apply now. Unless you have specific circumstances that are pressing, I would suggest viewing time as secondary to figuring out your specific goals.

For instance, I chose to pursue MD instead of DO largely on the basis of differences in philosophy between the two programs. There were aspects of the DO approach that didn't fit/feel right for me. It is not worse or better, just a different fit for me. Many others have chosen DO for the same reasons. As a non-trad, time was important to me but was much less of a factor than figuring out exactly what I wanted. Likewise, you need to find out what fits best for you and work things out accordingly. Best of luck to everyone.

 

[Ian1223]

How long do you think before MDs and DOs admissions stats will be the same? If there is really no difference, laws of supply and demand will prevail.

That is the true test.

 

[hum3a]

How long do you think before MDs and DOs admissions stats will be the same? If there is really no difference, laws of supply and demand will prevail.

That is the true test.

As long as people pick DO schools as back ups it will be that way.

 

[spicedmanna]

How long do you think before MDs and DOs admissions stats will be the same? If there is really no difference, laws of supply and demand will prevail.

This is an area that can be rather inflammatory, as opinions vary. However, it is the opinion of this medical student that so-called "admissions standards," by which we really mean MCAT and uGPA, do not decide on the quality of education and/or experience in which you are will receive. Admissions is a game and these numbers help you win a spot; don't try to make more out of them than that, since they lack robustness. Currently, there are fewer applicants to osteopathic medical schools than allopathic ones, so that is one of the reasons why these averages tend to be lower. Another reason is the prevalence of non-trads that apply and gain admission. Yet, another is that other admissions criteria are used, arguably to a greater degree, in conjunction with MCAT/uGPA to screen for admissions at osteopathic medical school.

It is often a misconception that MCAT/uGPA mean anything outside of admissions screening, with the exception of some modest correlation with board scores. Once you start medical school, these numbers mean essentially nothing. Everybody starts at the same place: from square one. How one fairs in medical school tends to depend more on the individual than anything else.

However, to more directly address your question, the averages are continuing to rise on both fronts as medical school itself, not respective of tradition, is getting more competitive. Do I think there will be a time that the averages converge? I haven't a clue and I'm not that interested in the answer, actually, outside of mild intellectual curiousity. The fact is that both traditions/type of schools produce excellent physicians and that, my friend, is the TRUE test.

 

[Haemulon]

How long do you think before MDs and DOs admissions stats will be the same? If there is really no difference, laws of supply and demand will prevail.

That is the true test.

Well, I think many people would argue that there is a difference (for either positive or negative reasons). Technically the programs are not identical, the most obvious difference being OMM, but also some stated/perceived differences in philosophy (although some of this is largely semantics or may be exaggerated). Still, its there. The contrast was more obvious in years past than it is today. As far as the actual practice of medicine after school and residency, I suspect that there is much less difference, if any, compared with differences during training.

 

[spicedmanna]

As far as the actual practice of medicine after school and residency, I suspect that there is much less difference, if any, compared with differences during training.

Yes, I see a trend of continued convergence, particularly in this respect, for what it's worth. The differences even in medical school, in my experience and opinion, are slight. The curriculum across both traditions, is without question, essentially the same, with the exception of OMM.

 

[fisko82]

Your GPA is average around a 3.5 and your MCAT is above average. There must be other deficiencies in your applicaiton. Bad attitude in PS or interviews, no volunteering, little clinical experience, no research....

+1

I looked at your mdapps and numbers wise, you're more than fine. A 3.5 is not something that is going to hold you back, at least from interviews, when you have a 32 on the mcat. Something is awry. I noticed you had rejections from Rosalind Franklin, SUNY Downstate, and Florida and haven't heard from NYMC quite yet. I would've thought you'd be competitive for interview invites from all four...

Thus, I think there may be something in your app that is not overwhelmingly positive that you aren't aware of. Your ECs seem good, did you come off as arrogant or naive in your personal statement? Did you submit strong letters of recommendation? Did the interview at Drexel go well? 😕

As for MD/DO, that's your call. You obviously know your situation better than anyone else here. We can't say what you should do cause our situations are all different. If I were in your shoes, unless I had aspirations at being in competitive residencies, doing research, and practicing in states where DOs are unheard of--then I'd go DO. If I had any of the aforementioned aspirations, I'd call everywhere and see why I didn't get serious looks and reapply next cycle to many more "safety" schools. GL 👍

 

[Shinken]

I love the idea of LECOM and the DO philosophy too but I dont want to go if MD will be better for my career or if DO will be a substantial setback for my career.

DO will not be a "substantial" setback for your career. YOU will be the setback, if anything. A DO can be any kind of physician, but competitive specialties are competitive to anyone, MD or DO. An average MD doesn't have more chances of becoming a dermatologist than an average DO. If anything, as a DO you will have the chance to apply to DO-only dermatology residencies, some of which are essentially the same as allopathic residencies (at least in Ohio...cannot speak for other states). I'm using derm as an example, but you get the idea. If you're interested in primary care, either degree will get you there easily.

But on the otherhand being with my girlfriend could make things exponentially less stressful. My passion for MD or DO is the same (and substantial).

I think you answered your own question. Your academic life is as important as your personal life, they're intimately connected (there, a bit of "holistic" body-mind DO mumbo-jumbo to get you started 😉 ). If one is out of whack it might adversely affect the other. However, if having a DO degree is a big blow to your ego, then don't do it.

Which is better for my career, MD or DO? Ive researched both and the only significant difference I could find is the lack of respect for DOs from MDs.

That "lack of respect" is mainly on SDN and in the rumor mills. Once you're out in the real world you'll be surprised to see DOs and MDs working together without any problems. What matters is how good a physician you are.

Are DOs really on the rise, or will their admissions stats always just flounder right below MD?

Why are admission stats so important? No patient will ask about your undergrad GPA or MCAT. When applying for residencies those numbers aren't even required nor brought up. Caribbean MD schools have been graduating good docs for decades, and their entering stats are typically well below those of MD or DO matriculants.

What is the right decision?

You tell us. Look at the schools you're considering and their location, tuition, curricula, "feel" and "fit" and then decide. Either degree will provide you with the opportunities you seek. A DO degree will not limit you if you're up to the task of obtaining whatever specialty you want. In the end, it's your time and tuition money.

I would advise you to pretend LECOM was an MD school...would you go there without any problems then? If you would, then your issue is not with the location, etc. but with the DO degree, and I would advise you to wait and try to get into an MD school.

 

[Ian1223]

After writing the Personal Statement and the Autobiography that my university's Pre-med office requested (a 4 month process) I showed them to my advisors. They approved both wholeheartedly.

The reason I'm asking these questions is because I need to convince my benefactors (aka parents) that DO is not a mistake. Yesterday they informed me that if I go DO this year and not wait another, then I would be footing the bill myself.

And prestige is irrelevant to me. I want to be a doctor to help people because it is my passion, truly.

On the otherhand, I dont want DO to inhibit my career. If two identical competivive med students, MD and DO, are competing for a tough radiology allopathic spot. Will MD be selected over the other?

 

[spicedmanna]

After writing the Personal Statement and the Autobiography that my university's Pre-med office requested (a 4 month process) I showed them to my advisors. They approved both wholeheartedly.

The reason I'm asking these questions is because I need to convince my benefactors (aka parents) that DO is not a mistake. Yesterday they informed me that if I go DO this year and not wait another, then I would be footing the bill myself.

And prestige is irrelevant to me. I want to be a doctor to help people because it is my passion, truly.

Don't make a decision in reaction to your parents. This is your life. Make a choice that works for you. You don't owe your parents an explanation. This is coming from the heart here. Your parents may not agree with your choices, but once they see you happy and you wearing your white coat, it would greatly surprise me if they didn't feel happy for you. If that doesn't do it for them, then forget them; they aren't worth your time. After all, you can't live forever under their wings. Simply be direct with them and tell them what you wish to do and why. Point them to relevent sources of information and let them make up their own mind.

In terms of your parents not supporting you, well, I think your choice is going to have to be bigger than your fear of not receiving support from them. The vast majority of medical students will take out loans for the full COA, so you should be able to make it regardless.

Good luck in making a choice that agrees with your heart!

 

[Ian1223]

Don't make a decision in reaction to your parents. This is your life. Make a choice that works for you. You don't owe your parents an explanation. This is coming from the heart here. Your parents may not agree with your choices, but once they see you happy and you wearing your white coat, it would greatly surprise me if they didn't feel happy for you. If that doesn't do it for them, then forget them; they aren't worth your time. After all, you can't live forever under their wings. Simply be direct with them and tell them what you wish to do and why. Point them to relevent sources of information and let them make up their own mind.

In terms of your parents not supporting you, well, I think your choice is going to have to be bigger than your fear of not receiving support from them. The vast majority of medical students will take out loans for the full COA, so you should be able to make it regardless.

Good luck in making a choice that agrees with your heart!

Thanks Scary Jack!

My parents just want whats best for me, even if they dont know what it is.

 

[spicedmanna]

On the otherhand, I dont want DO to inhibit my career. If two identical competivive med students, MD and DO, are competing for a tough radiology allopathic spot. Will MD be selected over the other?

Being a DO will not hamper your career; essentially, only you can do that. I detest these "if everything is equal" type questions because in real life, rarely, if ever, is everything equal between two applicants. Also, you can't make generalizations like this. It depends on the particular program in question. Highly competitive residency programs are just that, regardless of designation. If you can prove that you are suitable candidate and are well liked by the program, you will have a chance. Are there some ACGME programs that don't want DO's? Yes. Don't apply to them. However, that said, as time goes on, there will be fewer examples of this phenomenon. Remember also, that these are not the native programs for osteopathic physicians, but we do have the privilege of matching into them.

Also, you probably don't have a complete grasp of what it is you want to do, in terms of specialization, like most incoming first years. Give it some time to develop. If you have the drive to make it, you'll do what it takes, no matter where you end up.

 

[Gut Shot]

On the otherhand, I dont want DO to inhibit my career. If two identical competivive med students, MD and DO, are competing for a tough radiology allopathic spot. Will MD be selected over the other?

In 2007 over half of graduating DOs entered the allopathic match. They successfully matched at a rate of 68.8%. Their allopathic counterparts matched at a rate of 93.4%. Take from that what you will.

 

[Bacchus]

How are your LORs? This may be a problem.

 

[spicedmanna]

In 2007 over half of graduating DOs entered the allopathic match. They successfully matched at a rate of 68.8%. Their allopathic counterparts matched at a rate of 93.4%. Take from that what you will.

I won't argue that fewer matched sucessfully, because that is what the numbers suggest, but it doesn't predict an individual's chances or opportunities to match into a desired residency, nor does it account for all factors which may have resulted in the failure to match. Statistics do have their failings. On the other hand, if one knew beforehand that they wanted the absolute best chances of matching into an allopathic program, didn't care for OMM, or had any other compelling reason to attend an osteopathic medical school, well, then, it would make sense to start off in an allopathic medical school.

 

[dd128]

In 2007 over half of graduating DOs entered the allopathic match. They successfully matched at a rate of 68.8%. Their allopathic counterparts matched at a rate of 93.4%. Take from that what you will.

I've kind of wondered, regarding the allopathic matches, does that mean 6.6% don't match into anything or just their top choice?

 

[spicedmanna]

I've kind of wondered, regarding the allopathic matches, does that mean 6.6% don't match into anything or just their top choice?

If I am reading this correctly, it means that the rest didn't match into an ACGME program for that year.

 

[psych]

Okay. So, I'm a little confused... have you not even been accepted at LECOM yet?
Did you just apply like a day or 2 ago?
Do you have their required DO letter of rec?

I don't want to be a party pooper, but I doubt that going to LECOM this fall will even be an option for you. Therefore, in all honesty I think this entire thread is a waste of time. I hope I'm wrong but I will definitely be surprised if you are are granted an interview there.

When were you complete at the allopathic schools? Your stats are better than mine, we applied to a lot of the same schools, and I've had 6 invites. Like some others have said, unless you are pretty unlucky, you should have received more interviews.

I hate to sound like a pessimist but I think you should just plan on reapplying next year. Good Luck tho! Maybe you'll get into Drexel!

 

[Gut Shot]

I won't argue that fewer matched sucessfully, because that is what the numbers suggest, but it doesn't predict an individual's chances or opportunities to match into a desired residency,

No, of course not, but it does suggest that the DO degree is a liability in the allopathic match. I cannot predict any individual cancer patient's outcome, either, but I'd rather be stage I than stage IV.

 

[Gut Shot]

I've kind of wondered, regarding the allopathic matches, does that mean 6.6% don't match into anything or just their top choice?

They don't match into anything, and have to either take some time off (research year, usually) or enter the scramble.

 

[spicedmanna]

Okay. So, I'm a little confused... have you not even been accepted at LECOM yet?
Did you just apply like a day or 2 ago?
Do you have their required DO letter of rec?

I don't want to be a party pooper, but I doubt that going to LECOM this fall will even be an option for you. Therefore, in all honesty I think this entire thread is a waste of time. I hope I'm wrong but I will definitely be surprised if you are are granted an interview there.

When were you complete at the allopathic schools? Your stats are better than mine, we applied to a lot of the same schools, and I've had 6 invites. Like some others have said, unless you are pretty unlucky, you should have received more interviews.

I hate to sound like a pessimist but I think you should just plan on reapplying next year. Good Luck tho! Maybe you'll get into Drexel!

Okay yeah good point. I didn't even look at the OP's mdapplicant profile. If there is one thing that can be stated about medical school admissions is that there is NEVER a sure thing, or guarantee, regardless of type of school. Don't assume anything.

 

[Instatewaiter]

That "lack of respect" is mainly on SDN and in the rumor mills. Once you're out in the real world you'll be surprised to see DOs and MDs working together without any problems. What matters is how good a physician you are.

The lack of respect is out there, especially in the south. One of the deans at my school, when asked about osteopathic schools by a group of students from a health science high school she replied, "They are really for people who cant get into medical school."

Caribbean MD schools have been graduating good docs for decades, and their entering stats are typically well below those of MD or DO matriculants.

And those docs have a hard time matching typically. Not a great example.

It is often a misconception that MCAT/uGPA mean anything outside of admissions screening, with the exception of some modest correlation with board scores. Once you start medical school, these numbers mean essentially nothing. Everybody starts at the same place: from square one. How one fairs in medical school tends to depend more on the individual than anything else.

If you are trying to say that the average kid with a 25 is in the same league as a kid with a 35 you are off your gourd.

Being a DO will not hamper your career; essentially, only you can do that. Highly competitive residency programs are just that, regardless of designation. If you can prove that you are suitable candidate and are well liked by the program, you will have a chance. Are there some ACGME programs that don't want DO's? Yes.

Like it or not, it is a harder road to match allopathic as a DO. You will be fighting an uphill battle. The obstacles are by no means impossible to over come but having to take 2 different sets of board exams, not having the access to research and the stigma attached at some places are all things that will be a nuisance. It's not like the data on which programs have a stigma attached to DOs is readily available. Add to that the stress of having to decide whether to participate only in the DO match (earlier than the MD match and automatically drops you from the MD match) to or skip it and risk not matching in Allo and you have a sucky situation.

It is definitely possible to match especially in the less competitive fields. If you are looking to go into FM, IM, Peds, EM, neuro, psych you probably wont have difficulty. Even very competitive program are not closed off. There is an SDN member who goes to an osteo school who recently matched into Allo ophtho (very competitive).

 

[spicedmanna]

No, of course not, but it does suggest that the DO degree is a liability in the allopathic match. I cannot predict any individual cancer patient's outcome, either, but I'd rather be stage I than stage IV.

If you do the right things, attend an osteopathic medical school with a strong history of students matching into allopathic programs, and apply smartly, then your chances are probably going to greater than what the aggregate statistics show.

 

[Gut Shot]

If you do the right things and attend the right DO school, then your chances are probably going to greater than what the aggregate statistics show.

 

[spicedmanna]

You are equating the outcomes of someone with stage iv cancer to the outcome of attending an osteopathic medical school with respect to matching ACGME. While I agree that if you want to go the allopathic route, you are going to have at the onset, better chances, I don't think it is as heartbreakingly dismal as you make it out to be.

 

[spicedmanna]

Also, this is predicated on the assumption that you will want to attend an allopathic residency. Beyond any generalization, it's tough to know which program you'd like better, let alone which speciality you'd choose, this early in the game. There are good osteopathic residency programs, too.

 

[spicedmanna]

If you are trying to say that the average kid with a 25 is in the same league as a kid with a 35 you are off your gourd.

Yes, that's precisely what I am saying and I don't think it's that wild of a concept, really. Despite predisposing factors, medical school success is more dependent on factors other than MCAT performance. Don't mistake correlation and modest predictive value with success, or strength as a physician.

I don't know about you, but no medical student I've ever encountered even mentions MCAT/uGPA any more. If they do at your school, you must attend a crazy competitive school. Once you are in, you are in; the rest is up to you.

 

[UnderdogMD]

Yes, that's precisely what I am saying and I don't think it's that wild of a concept, really. Despite predisposing factors, medical school success is more dependent on factors other than MCAT performance. Don't mistake correlation and modest predictive value with success, or strength as a physician.

I say we get rid of the MCAT all together. Testing knowledge is overrated anyway. We should get rid of high GPAs too since they probably have little to do with medical school success also.

Instead

We should have compassion tests.
Life experience tests (how many years after college you wasted before you got your act together)
Extracurricular tests-# of 3rd world babies you saved. (14 is the minimum to be considered competitive)

 

[spicedmanna]

I say we get rid of the MCAT all together. Testing knowledge is overrated anyway. We should get rid of high GPAs too since they probably have little to do with medical school success also.

Instead

We should have compassion tests.
Life experience tests (how many years after college you wasted before you got your act together)
Extracurricular tests-# of 3rd world babies you saved. (14 is the minimum to be considered competitive)

I appreciate the sarcasm, but this is not what I would suggest, for the record. There is no perfect way to screen applicants and MCAT/uGPA are very useful tools, especially in dealing with large number of applicants. I absolutely stand by the use of these statistics in admissions screening.

I should also clarify, and I've already done this numerous times, but not in this thread, that I think standardized tests demonstrate some sort of baseline competency level with respect to test taking ability and knowledge, and that uGPA demonstrates, to some extent, study habits and skills, but I don't think there is a one-to-one point correlation between uGPA/MCAT score and ability/skill. They are of course useful, but I wouldn't rely too heavily on them, due to lack of robust predictive value.

The score of 25, as was used as an example, seems fine to my judgment, as it is at or right above average for all those who take the MCAT. Can you really say that point-for-point, above a certain reference level, that there is a profound difference in success? If so, I'd like to see those statistics. All the studies that I've come across state that there are too many factors to consider.

 

[UnderdogMD]

I appreciate the sarcasm, but this is not what I would suggest, for the record. There is no perfect way to screen applicants and MCAT/uGPA are very useful tools, especially in dealing with large number of applicants.

I should also clarify, and I've already done this numerous times, but not in this thread, that I think standardized tests demonstrate some sort of baseline competency level with respect to test taking and that uGPA demonstrates, to some extent, study habits and skills, but I don't think there is a one-to-one point correlation between uGPA/MCAT score and ability/skill.

I agree with you that once you are in it is what you do that counts, but I also think what you come in with is just as important. It is not like once you are in all 100 or so people will automatically have the same intelligence and work ethic. While neither is perfect, I think the MCAT plus GPA does a decent job or predicting success in medical school.

 

[spicedmanna]

I agree with you that once you are in it is what you do that counts, but I also think what you come in with is just as important. It is not like once you are in all 100 or so people will automatically have the same intelligence and work ethic. While neither is perfect, I think the MCAT plus GPA does a decent job or predicting success in medical school.

Perhaps, but it's arguable (most studies show that the correlation is pretty minimal). Even if that were the case, I would be VERY hesitant to argue that there is a point-for-point correlation and I would certainly NOT at all argue that there is causation. I think there is probably a certain baseline value for competency (with exceptions, of course), but after that, you are on significantly weaker ground to draw further conclusions.

 

[cars321]

^ But I think you would be happier at an MD program where the students will be more "intellectually stimulating" and around your age.

Basically you are saying you are smarter just because you go m.d. vs. d.o. This statement is completely false and ignorant.

 

[UnderdogMD]

The score of 25, as was used as an example, seems fine to my judgment, as it is at or right above average for all those who take the MCAT. Can you really say that point-for-point, above a certain reference level, that there is a profound difference in success? If so, I'd like to see those statistics. All the studies that I've come across state that there are too many factors to consider.

To me, there is a world of difference between a 25 and a 35. Difference in success? A person with a 25 is uncompetitive at an allopathic school while a person with a 35 is not. Then the person with the 25 will apply to Osteopathic schools and convince themselves that they chose MD over DO and that it is something they've always wanted to do. Then to further compensate for their inability to measure up with their uncompetitive MCAT/GPA they will argue that both the MCAT and GPA are invalid or useless as predictors of intelligence/work ethic or what have you.

EDIT: I have no problem with DO's or Osteopathic schools. I just think we should call a spade a spade and not delude ourselves.

 

[spicedmanna]

To me, there is a world of difference between a 25 and a 35. Difference in success? A person with a 25 is uncompetitive at an allopathic school while a person with a 35 is not.

Because someone decided this was the case and competition itself demands this. Again, don't confuse admissions processes with success or ability.

Also, you are generalizing a bit too far. There are allopathic schools in which a 25 will garner an acceptance. Granted it is not at all frequent, but it does happen.

Then the person with the 25 will apply to Osteopathic schools and convince themselves that they chose MD over DO and that it is something they've always wanted to do. Then to further compensate for their inability to measure up with their uncompetitive MCAT/GPA they will argue that both the MCAT and GPA are invalid or useless as predictors of intelligence/work ethic or what have you.

Oh please, now you are really off-track. Now you are arguing that folks who attend osteopathic institutions make worse, or less qualified, physicians, or don't fair as well in medical school. This is patently untrue. There is NOTHING to measure up to. Both types of schools produce excellent physicians. This is not even arguable.

Also, you should know that averages are on the rise and there are osteopathic medical schools that have MCAT averages that are significantly higher than 25.

 

[UnderdogMD]

Oh please, now you are really off-track. Now you are arguing that folks who attend osteopathic institutions make worse, or less qualified, physicians. This is patently untrue. There is NOTHING to measure up to. Both types of schools produce excellent physicians. This is not even arguable.

Who is arguing?
I never said people who graduate from osteopathic schools are worse or less qualified physicans. We are comparing the students who enter allopathic schools versus the students who enter osteopathic schools, not the doctors that each produces.

Issues of MD vs DO, or URM status have been beat to death. I doubt we are going to cover any new ground here. I also have an exam tomorrow.

 

[Gut Shot]

You are equating the outcomes of someone with stage iv cancer to the outcome of attending an osteopathic medical school with respect to matching ACGME.

No, I am illustrating how probabilities regarding outcome may rightfully influence a decision. Cancer staging is merely an example.

That you seem so recalcitrant to this simple concept is rather curious to me.

 

[Gut Shot]

Also, this is predicated on the assumption that you will want to attend an allopathic residency. Beyond any generalization, it's tough to know which program you'd like better, let alone which speciality you'd choose, this early in the game.

All the more reason to keep every door as open as possible, wouldn't you agree?

 

[spicedmanna]

All the more reason to keep every door as open as possible, wouldn't you agree?

Mmm, admittedly, there is a lot of truth to that... All ACGME doors are not exactly closed if one chooses an osteopathic medical school, not by a long shot. That's all I'm saying.

 

[spicedmanna]

Who is arguing?

We both are and there is nothing wrong with it, except that I am partially responsible for taking this thread a bit off-topic.

I never said people who graduate from osteopathic schools are worse or less qualified physicans. We are comparing the students who enter allopathic schools versus the students who enter osteopathic schools, not the doctors that each produces.

Yes, but if that were the case, then there is not really an issue. Both types of schools produce excellent physicians, regardless of average admissions statistics, or how admissions screening is handled between schools; that's the bottom line. The only completely true statement you made was that there are plenty of people who lie to themselves about their motivations and that there are people, some of the same people, who attend osteopathic medical school not by choice, at least at the onset, but because they want to be physicians and this is the opportunity that presented itself to them.

 

[spicedmanna]

No, I am illustrating how probabilities regarding outcome may rightfully influence a decision. Cancer staging is merely an example.

That you seem so recalcitrant to this simple concept is rather curious to me.

Degrees of difference matter. I don't disagree with you on a fundamental level, just that you tend to make it more extreme than it actually seems to be. That's how it appears to my eyes, anyway, which admittedly are a bit blurred from lack of sleep.

 

[travoltage]

How long do you think before MDs and DOs admissions stats will be the same? If there is really no difference, laws of supply and demand will prevail.

That is the true test.

i hope im not to bold to say, but i think the stats will be increasingly similar between DO/MD programs (we can exclude the top tier MD programs from this discussion). i think DO will soon have the same stats as low to mid tier MD programs. im interested in CCOM and i know that their average gpa i think is like a 3.5 and the average mcat is a 26. i mean thats 4 points lower than UIC's average mcat but not that far and i wouldnt doubt it if they raise the standards every year for CCOM. (bear in mind ccom is just an example of 1 DO school)

 

[Ian1223]

Okay. So, I'm a little confused... have you not even been accepted at LECOM yet?
Did you just apply like a day or 2 ago?
Do you have their required DO letter of rec?

I don't want to be a party pooper, but I doubt that going to LECOM this fall will even be an option for you. Therefore, in all honesty I think this entire thread is a waste of time. I hope I'm wrong but I will definitely be surprised if you are are granted an interview there.

When were you complete at the allopathic schools? Your stats are better than mine, we applied to a lot of the same schools, and I've had 6 invites. Like some others have said, unless you are pretty unlucky, you should have received more interviews.

I hate to sound like a pessimist but I think you should just plan on reapplying next year. Good Luck tho! Maybe you'll get into Drexel!

I havent sent out the secondary yet. and Im shadowing a DO currently. My committee letter took a while but I was complete by nearly every school on 10/1/07 and definately by 10/15/07

 

[tkim]

It is definitely possible to match especially in the less competitive fields. If you are looking to go into FM, IM, Peds, EM, neuro, psych you probably wont have difficulty. Even very competitive program are not closed off. There is an SDN member who goes to an osteo school who recently matched into Allo ophtho (very competitive).

EM is a more competitive specialty to match in than the others you've mentioned - more in the range of anesthesia and surgery. Though I do agree that EM is a more attainable specialty as a DO.