DO over MD?

[JaggerPlate]

now if you're in cali, like me, then you're screwed for is schools.

+ 1

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[neskalee]

Just wanted to add something, in support of those who assert that most people don't even realize if they're being treated by a DO or MD...

I work for a state insurance regulator's office. I work in their consumer call center and talk to between 50-60 people per day and a good 50% of them do not even know the name of their own health insurance company. Sometimes people will even file complaints against a health plan that they don't even have...

 

[JaggerPlate]

Just wanted to add something, in support of those who assert that most people don't even realize if they're being treated by a DO or MD...

I work for a state insurance regulator's office. I work in their consumer call center and talk to between 50-60 people per day and a good 50% of them do not even know the name of their own health insurance company. Sometimes people will even file complaints against a health plan that they don't even have...

Christ.

 

[neskalee]

Christ.

Yeah, and they get mad at me because I can't help them. So I ask them how they get their benefits (individual coverage, through an employer, etc) and they go "huh? what?"

Its a mindless and frustrating job. But since its health related I think it will look good on a med school app, no? Sometimes I get to mediate between health plans and enrollees and help them get treatment, when they know which insurance company they have that is...

 

[nonsciencemajor]

come on, man. what are you basing this on? admissions? there are a lot of US MD schools that are easier to get into than DO schools. if you're in-state in less competitive states (e.g. WV, AL, AZ, AR, CO, HI, KS, SC, KY, MS, etc.) then you have a damn good shot at getting in to IS schools. E.g. You got a 40% chance of geting into WVU if you're in state. (And 68% chance of getting an interview). if you're IS in AZ, you're guaranteed an interview. Let's be serious. In less competitive states, you got anywhere from 20-42% straight odds of getting in. that's VERY high.

now if you're in cali, like me, then you're screwed for IS schools.

I totally agree... I myself come from a state which is very hard for even IS to get into.... I feel very grateful I got in to med school, but at the same time, there are A LOT of qualified applicants that simply dont get in because of bad luck

I would personally wait a year or two (or maybe even three, but not sure) and keep applying allopathic... if I didnt get in by the third time I applied, then I would go DO... thats just me though

 

[hopefuldoc87]

I totally agree... I myself come from a state which is very hard for even IS to get into.... I feel very grateful I got in to med school, but at the same time, there are A LOT of qualified applicants that simply dont get in because of bad luck

I would personally wait a year or two (or maybe even three, but not sure) and keep applying allopathic... if I didnt get in by the third time I applied, then I would go DO... thats just me though

And essentially give up three years of your future physician salary. That's approximately 400K-500K, if you go into one of the lesser paying specialties.

400K-500K because you really wanted two SPECIFIC letters after your name isn't worth it to me, but to each his own.

 

[J1515]

And essentially give up three years of your future physician salary. That's approximately 400K-500K, if you go into one of the lesser paying specialties.

400K-500K because you really wanted two SPECIFIC letters after your name isn't worth it to me, but to each his own.

Interesting way to put it. Kinda puts peoples' motivations into perspective, eh?

 

[mipp0]

Well you have to understand that the vast majority of DO students are so because they couldn't get into an MD. You would be in the minority having an MD acceptance. Patients know this and they generally want the best people possible in charge of their health care.

You're as blunt as they come. I've read your comments on race and AA in medicine--amusing, and very ballsy.

I'm a blunt man myself, and I'd have to agree that there is a stigma on DOs. No, it doesn't end in pre-med. Surgeons and p.c. physicians I've shadowed make it clear where MDs and DOs stand. Patients, or at least the more informed ones, know that there is a distinction (though not necessariy what), and prefer MDs over DOs by a considerable margin. The hospitals where I interned and work at employ only MDs it seems (could you really argue sheer numbers at 3 different hospitals? All the board directors are MDs as well...), though for primary care, I assume the ratios aren't so skewed.

I--personally--don't care what my future colleagues are. If being a DO makes you happy friend, by all means, be a DO. If their methodology/philosophy makes you happy, by all means, go to a DO school. If you want to go into primary care, then it shouldn't matter so much farther down the road.

Do what makes your heart happy.

But your colleagues and patients may (and probably will) judge you, but such is the human condition. We love to put ourselves and others on some arbitary racial, political, professional scale and put ourselves on a pedestal.

EDIT: I live in California, and these are just my personal anecdotes. It's well known, California culture (especially in SoCal) puts a heavy emphasis on prestige, reputation, and credentials ("c**k stuffing"), and it gets tiring. I'm sure other parts of the country may be more welcoming to DOs. The fellow who posted here did provide some residency/matching statistics, so I encourage you to look at that.

 

[BennieBlanco]

i don't know. i know its stupid, but i guess the initials after my name kind of matter to me. i'm the kind of person that really cares about what others think. i don't want future colleagues or, worse, future PATIENTS, like the one's born described, to think less of me.

Prepare to be owned the rest of your life by others whims and fancies!

SUCK.

I'm pre-med (not a DO student) and would have no problem attending a DO with an MD acceptance in hand. Depends on the school.

Don't let people rule you.

Bill Cosby quote???

I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone.

 

[BennieBlanco]

HAHAHAHAHAH. Dude, 1. I can't argue with you if you're trolling and 2. people are so shockingly clueless about healthcare that saying the average plumber thinks 'there are two slightly separate but fully licensing paths to becoming a physician, that of the Allopathic or MD, and the Osteopathic or DO, and at this point in time, DO MCAT and GPA averages are lower than that of MD (very slightly in many cases), ergo, DOs represent a lower quality of physician,' makes me want to pee my pants laughing. In the last year, I've had people ask me what a residency was, if I get paid for going to medical school, if I pick a field like a major in college before I start medical school, etc etc ... the average person doesn't know what you are talking about. Ugh, OP please ignore his/her points.

This is 100% true. When I tell stories about shadowing to my friends, they ask "why are their attendings and residents? What does that mean?"

Or one time I told a guy I was applying to a MDs and a few DOs and he asked, "what is a DO?" These are people with graduate degrees in sciences. I went on to explain and he got really confused, this was my last time attempting to do this.

 

[BennieBlanco]

I got accepted to both MD and DO schools and chose DO based on your exact reasons and I'm a resident now. Don't listen to what any of the pre-med kiddies here tell you. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

I became pre-med last year and thought like everyone else, why? I looked and saw stats were lower so I just assumed DOs were worse.

Then I began reading up on it, and even searching websites like Mayo or wherever to see if they had DO residents, and it just dawned on me...

People judge you by who you are and how competent you are. If you are an ass and a bad doc, then they will judge you accordingly. If you are amazing and a giving/talented person, they will judge you accordingly.

Regardless of DO/MD. I guess I always knew they but the stigma is a pre-med/statistics stigma.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Oh no, here comes Bacchus again with his infinite wisdom . If you are worried about what others will think you have inferiority issues that well go beyond your future career. Be rational; no doctor is going to run out of patients unless he or she is useless, vile, loathing, etc.

Money talks in America. People are going to say what they do for a variety of reasons. Show them your paycheck, as a DO, and they will shut up or show great envy of you. The people telling you this bull**** are those with inferiority complexes. Do not stoop to their level.

You are legally able to call yourself a physician. Why do you care what others think? Grow a pair and move on.

boom! truth.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Common pre-med myth that never happens in reality. I had one patient ask about the initials two years ago when I was a 3rd year student. Nobody else has ever asked (out of hundreds to thousands).

The problem is pre-meds always want to be the best and most prestigious at whatever they do, which is probably why they all think they're going into radiology, dermatology, cardiology, or neurosurgery (note that most of you won't). Sick patients just want to get better. This is a difficult concept for you guys to grasp.

Does anyone listen to the reality...

This guy/gal has seen somewhere around 1000 patients and has only had 1 patient ask! 1!

lol. People have enough going on, they really don't care about initials. If you have an awesome personality and are good at your job, they will like you. If your personality sucks and you are an awful human being, they won't like you regardless of the initials.

Seriously, everything about human interaction I've learned (it was my major PLUS I did sales) says that people will judge you on how you look and how you act... that will make up 90%+ of their opinion of you.

 

[BennieBlanco]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuBHzJ5LrXE

lol.

 

[BennieBlanco]

SDN: the only place a resident's or medical student's advice is outranked by a pre-medical student.

lol again, sorry I keep posting. Can't sleep and this thread is entertaining.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Have you ever worked at a hospital before? Again, neither I, my colleagues, nor any of the preceptors and residents I've worked with have encountered this scenario you are talking about. Zero DO's that I've worked with have had to qualify or explain themselves at the hospitals I have rotated at. Patients just want to be taken care of and they don't give a crap about whether you are an MD or DO. I have no idea where this myth comes from. In the past, I have encountered a couple of people, in an area what wasn't very DO-heavy, who weren't familiar with it and were curious, but that was the extent of it.



Good luck with that. You do know that the Latin root for "doctor" means teacher, right? Part of the role implies educating patients. BTW, brace yourself, because there's nothing really easy about the path to becoming a physician.

I can tell you where the myth comes from. You become pre-med, then you look and see stats are lower for these "DO" schools. Then just like any consumer is conditioned, "lower price means lower quality product." This is built into the minds of everyone, you can sell prestigious dog **** if you put a fancy wrapper and high sticker price on it.

Then you just think, DO means lower quality student and lower quality doc. I know none of this is true, but I believe this is the genesis. It certainly was for me, it took me about 6-8 months before I educated myself to realize otherwise.

 

[BennieBlanco]

And essentially give up three years of your future physician salary. That's approximately 400K-500K, if you go into one of the lesser paying specialties.

400K-500K because you really wanted two SPECIFIC letters after your name isn't worth it to me, but to each his own.

200k per letter.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

You're as blunt as they come. I've read your comments on race and AA in medicine--amusing, and very ballsy.

I'm a blunt man myself, and I'd have to agree that there is a stigma on DOs. No, it doesn't end in pre-med. Surgeons and p.c. physicians I've shadowed make it clear where MDs and DOs stand. Patients, or at least the more informed ones, know that there is a distinction (though not necessariy what), and prefer MDs over DOs by a considerable margin. The hospitals where I interned and work at employ only MDs it seems (could you really argue sheer numbers at 3 different hospitals? All the board directors are MDs as well...), though for primary care, I assume the ratios aren't so skewed.

I--personally--don't care what my future colleagues are. If being a DO makes you happy friend, by all means, be a DO. If their methodology/philosophy makes you happy, by all means, go to a DO school. If you want to go into primary care, then it shouldn't matter so much farther down the road.

Do what makes your heart happy.

But your colleagues and patients may (and probably will) judge you, but such is the human condition. We love to put ourselves and others on some arbitary racial, political, professional scale and put ourselves on a pedestal.

EDIT: I live in California, and these are just my personal anecdotes. It's well known, California culture (especially in SoCal) puts a heavy emphasis on prestige, reputation, and credentials ("c**k stuffing"), and it gets tiring. I'm sure other parts of the country may be more welcoming to DOs. The fellow who posted here did provide some residency/matching statistics, so I encourage you to look at that.

thank god I don't plan on practicing in SoCal.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

Does anyone listen to the reality...

This guy/gal has seen somewhere around 1000 patients and has only had 1 patient ask! 1!

It's interesting, I've yet to hear from a DO student, resident, or physician that countless patients ask them about this, or that being a DO in any way impacts their ability to get patients. And I've shadowed and worked under numerous DOs..from orthos to FPs.

Yet, so many pre-meds have knowledge of this occuring. I'm sure it happens. But not nearly to the extent of what some people make it out to be. Either way, if you're making the same amount and have a substantial patient base, why the **** would you care?

 

[nonsciencemajor]

thank god I don't plan on practicing in SoCal.

Southern Cal is one of those places, where I just think it would be easier to get a job as an MD as compared to being a DO..... that is just my opinion, and I have no facts to base it on.... but I think having the MD title is very important if trying to find a job in LA, OC, SD, or SF... not so much for places like Sacremento, and the smaller cities in Cali

 

[hopefuldoc87]

Southern Cal is one of those places, where I just think it would be easier to get a job as an MD as compared to being a DO..... that is just my opinion, and I have no facts to base it on.... but I think having the MD title is very important if trying to find a job in LA, OC, SD, or SF... not so much for places like Sacremento, and the smaller cities in Cali

At least you're honest.

I can't speak much for the west coast because well, never been there, but make sure you do your research before making the choice on what school you go to.

 

[muscme]

You're as blunt as they come. I've read your comments on race and AA in medicine--amusing, and very ballsy.

I'm a blunt man myself, and I'd have to agree that there is a stigma on DOs. No, it doesn't end in pre-med. Surgeons and p.c. physicians I've shadowed make it clear where MDs and DOs stand. Patients, or at least the more informed ones, know that there is a distinction (though not necessariy what), and prefer MDs over DOs by a considerable margin. The hospitals where I interned and work at employ only MDs it seems (could you really argue sheer numbers at 3 different hospitals? All the board directors are MDs as well...), though for primary care, I assume the ratios aren't so skewed.

I--personally--don't care what my future colleagues are. If being a DO makes you happy friend, by all means, be a DO. If their methodology/philosophy makes you happy, by all means, go to a DO school. If you want to go into primary care, then it shouldn't matter so much farther down the road.

Do what makes your heart happy.

But your colleagues and patients may (and probably will) judge you, but such is the human condition. We love to put ourselves and others on some arbitary racial, political, professional scale and put ourselves on a pedestal.

EDIT: I live in California, and these are just my personal anecdotes. It's well known, California culture (especially in SoCal) puts a heavy emphasis on prestige, reputation, and credentials ("c**k stuffing"), and it gets tiring. I'm sure other parts of the country may be more welcoming to DOs. The fellow who posted here did provide some residency/matching statistics, so I encourage you to look at that.

That's what sort of worries me about choosing DO over MD. But it doesn't make sense. Why do they prefer MDs over Dos? It obviously has nothing to do with treatment/diagnosis. so why the difference in 'respect'? it can't be about admissions either.

is it just a matter of exposure then?

 

[spicedmanna]

is it just a matter of exposure then?

Yes, for most part. Once people know the facts, they wouldn't think that way. However, there is a portion that, if they didn't discriminate based on degree, would do so on another basis, or do so concurrently already. Think about it. Some people don't like differences and obviously the DO degree represents a difference from the majority. It can stick out and be a place for people to discriminate against you, as with lots of other things. If you care about that, about people picking out that particular difference, should it come up, then stick with the majority. Nobody is going to hold it against you. However, keep in mind that if these guys don't pick degree, they are probably going to pick on something else to discriminate against. It's a mind-set for some people and you can't win. Frankly, I never cared to gain the respect of these type of folks, so it didn't matter to me if they happened to look down on me for one reason or another. What do I care what these guys think? It's about what makes me happy, and the vast majority of folks I will be working with as well as my patients aren't likely to give a crap about my degree, so you know, whatever to all that.

 

[tkim]

That's what sort of worries me about choosing DO over MD. But it doesn't make sense. Why do they prefer MDs over Dos? It obviously has nothing to do with treatment/diagnosis. so why the difference in 'respect'? it can't be about admissions either.

is it just a matter of exposure then?

This is a common misconception that's touted amongst the premed crowd, and there are two basic arguments against going DO:

1) No one knows what a DO is.

2) People prefer MDs over DO's.

If you look at those two statements, you'll realize the inconsistency of them. Because if people don't know what a DO is, then how can they prefer MDs over them?

There are plenty of people who are currently patients of DOs and have no clue that they are seeing DOs. That's another theme that runs in the DO forums - "My XXXXX didn't know what a DO was, then found out later that the FP, OB, peds, etc, they've been seeing for XXX years was a DO."

Premeds are free to decide what path to becoming a physician they want to pursue, but please - cut the bull****. You want MD because you want the "MD". That's absolutely okay. Stop throwing up other crap reasons. I'm a DO, and while I'm in EM, where you don't really get a choice as to who your provider is, I've never had 1) someone as me what a DO was 2) ask for another provider if they saw my nametag and saw the 'DO'. I think the important part of my nametag "resident PHYSICIAN" is enough to satisfy people as to my bona fides.

 

[JaggerPlate]

that is just my opinion, and I have no facts to base it on....

Hence the issue with every argument regarding this issue on SDN. I've lived in So Cal forever, most successful PCP in the whole area I lived was a DO, the head of emergency medicine at the hospital where I worked (really big, really academic) was a DO, the anesthesiologist I shadowed was a DO at a big hospital in So Cal, there is a well respected DO school in So Cal, and whoever was looking for 'the facts' here are their match lists from the past few years:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7635532&postcount=6

Notice the specialization and the frequency at which they put people into these 'prestigious' places like USC branches, UCLA branches, Loma Linda, etc. It is also not the best DO match list in my opinion (schools like KCOM, CCOM, KCUMB are more specialized, but put less people in Cali). The highlight for me is still a 2009 ACGME Rad Onc match into Kaiser Sunset from Western.

 

[dang025]

I think the problem with these topics is that no one takes a position on the DO vs MD debate in a vacuum. People are always trying to justify the decisions that they've already made. Not surprisingly people who are going to a DO school defend the quality of the DO degree as being equivalent to an MD in every respect; which it is. While those attending an MD school will try to argue that a significant difference exists when one is a practicing physician, and that DO students will have to overcome a stigma when applying for residencies and other positions for the rest of their lives.
These are the essentially the facts,
-It is significantly easier to gain admission to a DO school, not necessarily because the quality of education is worse. The selectivity difference plays a large role in the minds of pre-meds, when it comes to deciding upon the "prestige" of DO school.
-That some, albeit few, DO schools are for profit, it casts a negative shadow over the AOA accreditation process.
-It will always be more difficult for a DO student to match into competitive allopathic residency programs.
-As the number of medical students increases faster than residency positions open up, it will become more difficult for DO students to match into allopathic residencies, though i would argue FMG will suffer more from this situation.
-It is exceedingly rare to find a DO in academic medicine, due to both stigma and as the number of MD/PHD's increases it will become more difficult for regular MD's to find positions.

Just for full disclosure, I have been accepted into an Allopathic medical school next year but i don't believe that the ability to figure out the direction of torque and magnetic field lines is necessarily a great barometer of potential as a clinician.

 

[Daedra22]

-That some, albeit few, DO schools are for profit, it casts a negative shadow over the AOA accreditation process.

There is one for-profit DO school.

 

[CapnCrunch]

This is a common misconception that's touted amongst the premed crowd, and there are two basic arguments against going DO:

1) No one knows what a DO is.

2) People prefer MDs over DO's.

If you look at those two statements, you'll realize the inconsistency of them. Because if people don't know what a DO is, then how can they prefer MDs over them?

Not taking sides, but the argument still holds. Are you not allowed to prefer something you know vs. something you don't?

 

[spicedmanna]

Regarding the above post, no, I think the majority of the argument occurs between premeds and I am including those just accepted into a program as part of that group, because they have no more experience of the things we are discussing here. I think few medical students and above tend to become heated over this topic, especially those who are in the clincal rotations or beyond. There isn't much to discuss or defend...everyone is learning and busy doing what needs to be done. Patient care and learning are the priority.

 

[dang025]

Any school affiliated in any way with Touro is suspicious, even if it claims to be non profit. Touro is affiliated with 3 schools.

Plus the one in colorado

Lastly my point is the fact that the AOA allows a medical school to be for profit is bad for a medical school and its students. Much like for profit healthcare and health insurance is bad for patients and the health care industry as a whole.

 

[Daedra22]

EDIT: Misread a post.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

I don't get it. DO residents and people who ARE in the actual field posters are speculating about have already said out of the thousands of patients they have seen, not even a few have questioned their credentials or doubted their abilities.

Yet people are disregarding this first hand experience from people IN THE FIELD and wondering why people prefer DO's vs MD's, and why patients don't want to be seen by DO's.

I just don't get it. Only on SDN.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Out of curiosity, would most of the folks on this thread agree that going to DO school is preferable to a Caribbean MD school? If so, why?

 

[Daedra22]

I don't get it. DO residents and people who ARE in the actual field people are speculating about have already said out of the thousands of patients they have seen, not even a few have questioned their credentials or doubted their abilities.

Yet people are disregarding this first hand experience from people IN THE FIELD and wondering why people prefer DO's vs MD's, and why patients don't want to be seen by DO's.

I just don't get it. Only on SDN.

I don't get it either.

 

[tkim]

Not taking sides, but the argument still holds. Are you not allowed to prefer something you know vs. something you don't?

If you don't know the existence of something, how can you prefer another thing over it?

"I don't know if there is another kind of coffee besides Columbian, but I prefer Columbian."

"I prefer Columbian coffee over any other coffee that I do not know the existence of."

 

[hopefuldoc87]

If you don't know the existence of something, how can you prefer another thing over it?

"I don't know if there is another kind of coffee besides Columbian, but I prefer Columbian."

"I prefer Columbian coffee over any other coffee that I do not know the existence of."

"Better the enemy you know.."

I don't know how it applies, but it sounds appropriate.

 

[spicedmanna]

I don't get it. DO residents and people who ARE in the actual field posters are speculating about have already said out of the thousands of patients they have seen, not even a few have questioned their credentials or doubted their abilities.

Yet people are disregarding this first hand experience from people IN THE FIELD and wondering why people prefer DO's vs MD's, and why patients don't want to be seen by DO's.

I just don't get it. Only on SDN.

It has always seemed strange to me, too. I guess a lot of premeds have to maintain their sense of being right.

 

[Lewist02]

Not taking sides, but the argument still holds. Are you not allowed to prefer something you know vs. something you don't?

Yes...however that person would be ignorant.

 

[J1515]

I became pre-med last year and thought like everyone else, why? I looked and saw stats were lower so I just assumed DOs were worse.

I have a question for the pre-meds here:

I checked out two different HDMI cables before I purchased one for my flat screen - there was A and B -->

A ) Cable A

B) Cable B

I'd like to know which one you would choose.

(This is not off topic. I'm pretty sure most can see how this relates to the thinking of a typical pre-med student)

 

[ruiner]

I've been accepted to one MD school. It's OOS but i have close ties (my parents live there). I've also been accepted to 3 DO schools. One is in my resident state, the city where i've lived pretty much my entire life. I am planning to get married soon to my fiance and we really want to stay near our hometown. SO, do you guys think that I would regret it if I chose the nearer DO school over the MD school i got into (which, i forgot to mention, is on the east coast, whereas my hometown is on the West coast). Do you think there's still a "stigma" attached to being a DO in the medical community? You think it might affect me down the line when i apply to residencies?

any advice/help is greatly appreciated. if you need other info, just ask.

I'm just going by what I've seen in my hospital that I work with a relatively large, respected hospital with no affiliated school as of yet. DO's are still getting the short end of the stick in that nurses, RTs, and other support staff still treat them differently. But as I've said before, if that bothered you, you could go across town to the DO hospital which is brand new and very nice, but dosn't get the cool cases. Think carefully about what you want to do with your career, there's nothing you can't do as DO, but it is a factor in any decisions in the future that will come up for you. I guess go where you think you're going to do best at because it dosnt matter if you've got MD on yoru name if you do a bad job in school. BTW I have no doubt that the average patient really dosn't care or know the difference, because at the hospital I don't see them treating them different. It's the coworkers which surprised me when I started.

 

[ruiner]

Out of curiosity, would most of the folks on this thread agree that going to DO school is preferable to a Caribbean MD school? If so, why?

I would go DO over a caribbean MD school in a second.

 

[Parts Unknown]

The highlight for me is still a 2009 ACGME Rad Onc match into Kaiser Sunset from Western.

The problem with this line of reasoning can be illustrated by the fact that said Rad Onc match was the only successful one in the entire country. Check the NRMP data here (bottom of page 5).

 

[Parts Unknown]

I would go DO over a caribbean MD school in a second.

If so, why?

 

[Daedra22]

The problem with this line of reasoning can be illustrated by the fact that said Rad Onc match was the only successful one in the entire country. Check the NRMP data here (bottom of page 5).

Is there a reason why we assume that everyone is interested in ROADs? I guess maybe I would consider holding out for an MD school if I cared at all about the ROAD specialties... except that I don't.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Is there a reason why we assume that everyone is interested in ROADs? I guess maybe I would consider holding out for an MD school if I cared at all about the ROAD specialties... except that I don't.

My point was merely illustrative, not all encompassing. Focusing on DO matches into allopathic ROAD spots is essentially an exercise in confirmation bias, and therefore not a form of analysis we should all aspire to.

 

[J1515]

The problem with this line of reasoning can be illustrated by the fact that said Rad Onc match was the only successful one in the entire country. Check the NRMP data here (bottom of page 5).

How do you know there wasn't only 1 DO interested in Rad Onc?

 

[Parts Unknown]

How do you know there wasn't only 1 DO interested in Rad Onc?

How do you know there weren't 50?

I don't find a dispassionate analysis of this subject very difficult. Overall (and the key word is "overall") a generic MD will have better post-graduate training opportunities than a generic DO. However, there is significant overlap between the two.

Given the higher degree of standardization between allopathic schools, I would simply recommend that would be DO students be careful in their choice of school if they wish to maximize educational value and future opportunities.

 

[muscme]

Do most Do grads go into an AOA or ACGME residency?

 

[muscme]

I think the problem with these topics is that no one takes a position on the DO vs MD debate in a vacuum. People are always trying to justify the decisions that they've already made. Not surprisingly people who are going to a DO school defend the quality of the DO degree as being equivalent to an MD in every respect; which it is. While those attending an MD school will try to argue that a significant difference exists when one is a practicing physician, and that DO students will have to overcome a stigma when applying for residencies and other positions for the rest of their lives.
These are the essentially the facts,
-It is significantly easier to gain admission to a DO school, not necessarily because the quality of education is worse. The selectivity difference plays a large role in the minds of pre-meds, when it comes to deciding upon the "prestige" of DO school.
-That some, albeit few, DO schools are for profit, it casts a negative shadow over the AOA accreditation process.
-It will always be more difficult for a DO student to match into competitive allopathic residency programs.
-As the number of medical students increases faster than residency positions open up, it will become more difficult for DO students to match into allopathic residencies, though i would argue FMG will suffer more from this situation.
-It is exceedingly rare to find a DO in academic medicine, due to both stigma and as the number of MD/PHD's increases it will become more difficult for regular MD's to find positions.

Just for full disclosure, I have been accepted into an Allopathic medical school next year but i don't believe that the ability to figure out the direction of torque and magnetic field lines is necessarily a great barometer of potential as a clinician.

I don't think that's true, though. It's a blanket statement. wouldn't you agree that if you're in-state in less competitive states (e.g. WV, AL, AZ, AR, CO, HI, KS, SC, KY, MS, etc.) then you have a damn good shot at getting into I.S. MD schools? If I were in WV, i think i would have a much better shot at getting into WVU than Western. no? You got a 40% chance of getting into WVU if you're in state.

i got 3 DO interviews and 2 MD interviews. i applied to 15 schools total (although more MD than DO). the difficulty seemed even to me.

 

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I don't think that's true, though. It's a blanket statement.

Apples to apples. Take the average stats and average applicants/spot for all MD schools and compare them to the average stats and average applicants/spot for all DO schools. I think you will find a significant difference, even if the gap has been closing in recent years. That there is some overlap is not surprising.