Do past criminal charges practically block entry to medical school?

[stylepower40]

Glad it worked out for you since you were acting in self-defense. I think the huge thing here is that you got the charges dropped, and a lesser factor is that “simple battery”, as in a drunken bar fight where you defended yourself, does not have the same stigma as domestic violence (and heroin).

OP’s best chance is to get the DV charge dismissed. I do not have experience in law enforcement, but I am suspicious that a woman with hand sized bruises, as OP claims to have had, would be arrested and her male partner would not have been arrested, even if he had marks on him too. I can see both having to get arrested depending on state and local police department policy (from what I have been told by LEO’s, sorting out a DV scene is very tricky), but letting the guy off completely seems unlikely. Hopefully OP has photos from her arrest record and/or the scene that she can use in her defense in court. ***** situation all around

absolutely. should have clarified that it wasnt really meant for OP but more for others reading who may be in a similar situation with previous charges. seemed like some people on here felt that previous charges would be detrimental so i just wanted to throw my situation out there

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[Twiggidy]

Given you're from Kentucky I feel like you'll understand this quip......

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

 

[MedicalDestiny]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

I would support you and your journey
I’m not a program director yet or currently in an admin position but knowing where you are now from
Where you were I would support you and mentor you.
I think clearly showing the pattern of behavior that you exhibited in the past few years based on what it was before is a distinguishing factor in showing that you could truly have changed. Many people feel exams but then pass and can show that they can change as well and keep working towards a better future.

also I was reading this the other day so wanted to share regarding disability https://www.newmobility.com/2019/03/disabled-doctors/

 

[deleted707296]

You have an amazing story about youthful folly and recovery. Believe me, any medical school who reviews your application will remember you much better than many of the "i went to a good school and got good grades and did research and that is my entire life story" applicants they have to filter.

You have a real life story. Own that, don't apologize for it. If anything, it probably will intimidate many of your future colleagues.

Just say you went through some ****. Say it like that, too. Along with evidence that you're capable of handling the workload in medical school, I'm certain you're going to be interviewed. Do you know how many medical students are as interesting as wall spackle? That was probably a winning characteristic 20 years ago. Not so much today.

Your story is going to make people pay attention to you. Certainly, Liberty University and some DO schools are going to filter you out- but ask yourself if those are institutions in which you'd thrive.

You're going to do well. Don't paint over the dirt. Best of luck.

 

[PHoPharm]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

The real question I believe is will you be able to apply and obtain an intern license through your state?

 

[sloop]

OP, I have also seen that specialties like Psych are oftentimes the least forgiving for mistakes. Again, I would do a thorough investigation and get everyone's perspective before diving into this long path.

This can definitely be the case.

It’s not so much that we’re less tolerant or “forgiving” generally, but we have clinical experience with people with these types of charges. We understand that wonderful people can get into legal trouble like this. At the same time, residency programs are interested in making sure residents will be able to handle residency without requiring significant absences for personal reasons. All of us have treated people with this type of combination of CDS charges and domestic violence. Usually, their lives are a total mess. Even if they are able to turn that around and get stuff in order, there is a much higher risk that their lives will devolve into a total mess again in the future. It can be a real problem when you have to rearrange the schedule of an entire class because a resident got arrested or had a relapse.

Also, as has been mentioned, licensing can become an issue. You definitely don’t want to wind up graduating from residency but unable to get an unrestricted license.

I don’t know that it’s frankly impossible for you to overcome this. If they were felonies, I’d say that’s a hard barrier, but with misdemeanors it is more of a grey area. It will definitely be an issue, however.

 

[Z2911BME]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

First, congratulations on your current path of life and recovery!

My experience says medical school is a possibility in regard to the drug charge, however, the assault may give you more trouble. I personally had 15 years of addiction including two misdemeanor possession charges for heroin (2012, 2013), one for cocaine (2007), and larceny under $1000 (2013-stole from Walmart) - I'm just about to wrap up my first year of medical school (yes a US medical school). That being said, I had 7 years between my addiction, criminal history, and my application to medical school along with an extensively documented history of long-term residential treatment, being an impactful and productive citizen, documented sobriety, and a high level of performance during undergraduate studies.

My interview was fairly easy for me - meaning I didn't have to answer the cliche interview questions because my criminal history and charges took up the whole time, but we had a good time just talking about it, what it was like, and what I've learned through the whole experience.

My personal opinion says you should plan to take a gap year. I'm not sure what your stats are like, but even with a stellar cGPA, sGPA, MCAT score, and ECs, you face the disadvantage of not having a lot of time between your last criminal charge and where you are today, a violent offense regardless of the circumstances unfortunately, and some medical concerns.

Lastly, and this is a common issue with the recovery community, but I am unsure as to how you define "clean and sober." Do you consider complete abstinence sober, or as long as you're not doing heroin you can still drink? The question isn't an indictment on your personal views, and what works for one doesn't work for others although the data and my personal beliefs say complete abstinence is the way to go, but if you do use alcohol I would consider what your social media platforms look like because ADCOMs would probably view alcohol use as a high risk factor for relapse in considering your application.

Hope that helps and feel free to ask me any questions - best of luck

 

[RPHDOC1]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

Go find another career.

 

[outtadisworld]

I'm sorry to hear your story, but someone needs to say it: you have no chance.

So many people here are telling you to see a lawyer, etc. You will not be able to become a physician. It sounds harsh, but that is the reality. You may get through some of the stages, but you won't be able to make it all the way through. Maybe you'll get into med school, but it is highly doubtful you would get into residency, maybe get a fellowship, get licensed by your state, and find a job. So many other applicants don't have red flags. Admissions may not even read your application.

You have to find a new career. I am sorry. I know so many people dream to become physicians. However, it is better to change career paths now than spend years polishing your resume, taking MCAT, spending thousands on applications, and only to end up with rejection letters. Even if you do get in, what if no residency program will take you? Or what if you can't get accredited to practice? What if in the "real world," no employer will hire you? What if you are hundreds of thousands into debt, equipped with medical knowledge, and can't get a job? That's a decade of your life and earning potential down the drain...

Again, I'm sorry. But it's better to be heartbroken now than later. You must have already had doubts if you were compelled to post on a medical forum.

I'm sure some people will disagree with me. But the chance of getting into medical school is so low already with a clean record and a strong application. Having these red flags will make your chance extremely low. If you want to do it, go for it. Maybe you could end up being a physician. But you very likely won't. Don't say you weren't warned.

I truly wish you the best of luck. Sometimes life is terrible.

 

[REL]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

1. As a long-time admissions leader I can say that the answer will vary based on the medical licensure board in each state. You may be able to graduate a medical program but the bigger question is whether you can get licensed to practice. So you will need to understand the requirements for licensure in the state where you hope to practice. Medical school is costly in money, time, and energy; all of that can be lost if that graduate will not be able to obtain licensure. If you have any question you would be best served to contact the Admissions Office about a situation that may not allow you to graduate or be licensed.

2. It is my impression that most medical admissions secondary applications do ask some type of question about criminal charges.

3. Once accepted to an MD program the AAMC will facilitate a criminal background check for each applicant. Every program that offers you an acceptance will have access to the result of that report. Each medical program will have their own tolerance for what is found on this criminal background report. Most of the time we will see 1, maybe 2, misdemeanors on a report, but several entries, or other more serious findings may be above the program's tolerance level. Remember that all acceptances tendered can be rescinded if an application has been determined to have violated anything, criminal or not, in their Technical Standards for Acceptance and Graduation prior to or after matriculation. It is advisable for all accepted applicants to update the admissions office if you end up with a ticket or court date prior to matriculation. Additional background checks will be conducted while a student in medical school, prior to your entry into the clinical training facilities. These medical training facilities also have the right to decline a medical student from training in their facilities. Being up-front with these issues is best because they will be discovered. If you cannot be licensed you may as well know that as soon as possible.

4. If you are accepted by a medical program there is a good chance that you could be mandated to participate in a program for impaired physicians and follow strict testing guidelines throughout your medical school and future training. The fact that you are in such a program in medical school will likely reduce your options for obtaining a residency. No residency, no licensure.

 

[Cellochick0528]

It would be difficult and a gamble to find a medical school, residency program, and state medical board that believe drug use should not be criminalized and clean and sober former users should be given a second chance in life. But, it’s conceivable to find places/people like that in very liberal parts of the country, especially in 10-20 years when you need them to give you a second chance. They might even buy that a former addict is uniquely suited to help treat current addicts.

But no one at any point is going to be lenient about domestic violence. That’s the major issue here.

I would disagree. IF she can get it expunged My cousin assaulted me and was kept out of nursing school for now. But she is getting her misdemeanor expunged bc she took a plea in abeyance. It might be too late for our friend here. But I would imagine that my cousin will still get into nursing school since she was a dumb 18 yr old. Our friend here was assaulted and probably has a great story to share. Wonder what a lawyer might say.

 

[jsat]

1. As a long-time admissions leader I can say that the answer will vary based on the medical licensure board in each state. You may be able to graduate a medical program but the bigger question is whether you can get licensed to practice. So you will need to understand the requirements for licensure in the state where you hope to practice. Medical school is costly in money, time, and energy; all of that can be lost if that graduate will not be able to obtain licensure. If you have any question you would be best served to contact the Admissions Office about a situation that may not allow you to graduate or be licensed.

2. It is my impression that most medical admissions secondary applications do ask some type of question about criminal charges.

3. Once accepted to an MD program the AAMC will facilitate a criminal background check for each applicant. Every program that offers you an acceptance will have access to the result of that report. Each medical program will have their own tolerance for what is found on this criminal background report. Most of the time we will see 1, maybe 2, misdemeanors on a report, but several entries, or other more serious findings may be above the program's tolerance level. Remember that all acceptances tendered can be rescinded if an application has been determined to have violated anything, criminal or not, in their Technical Standards for Acceptance and Graduation prior to or after matriculation. It is advisable for all accepted applicants to update the admissions office if you end up with a ticket or court date prior to matriculation. Additional background checks will be conducted while a student in medical school, prior to your entry into the clinical training facilities. These medical training facilities also have the right to decline a medical student from training in their facilities. Being up-front with these issues is best because they will be discovered. If you cannot be licensed you may as well know that as soon as possible.

#3 is a great answer. There's so many variables against you in this case. Even if you get into medical school getting into a residency program could be incredibly difficult because you're essentially beginning the process over again. You'd also be beginning the process over again with your DEA license and state's medical board. Also even if you make it all the way to becoming a physician you still would be competing against other physicians who don't have these records. Most institutions would likely be afraid to hire someone with your record over someone with no record incase there's a lawsuit against you. You would just be the riskier candidate in every scenario. For that reason I don't think the debt of medical school would be worth it there's too many variables where things could not go in your favor. It does suck and people deserve a second chance, but the advice you've gotten from others is solid advice.


Until your records are expunged (if it even it happens) we're just talking hypotheticals. I wouldn't go too deep in the hole getting ready for medical school until you know these records can even be expunged it's not a guarantee it will happen.

 

[ClimbsRox]

There are a lot of people in this thread saying "YOU WILL NEVER BECOME A DOCTOR." That is not exactly true. I can think of one attending off the top of my head that went to medical school after having his drug charges expunged. He is an ER doc now, so its possible. With your history though and the proximity of the charges in time to your application, it will be a very, very long and difficult road. The truth is that psychiatry, and medicine in general, needs people like you. Medicine is full of people with privileged backgrounds that have never seen a real struggle in their life and they are tasked with caring for people who are often times in the hardest struggle of their lives. Its not their fault, but people with certain lived experiences are capable of offering empathy, compassion, and care in ways people without those experiences cant. I grew up poor and come from a long line of drug addicts, crack and heroin on my fathers side and prescription pills on my mothers side. When I talk about my upbringing with my classmates they look at me like I have three heads. What your dad didn't make you close the door and not come out so he could smoke crack all night in the kitchen? Your mother didn't steal viagra samples from her job as a medical assistant and sell them for rent money? When you have a patient that shows up for fourth time with a broken nose and dozens of fresh track marks, your experience will uniquely allow you to connect with that patient in a way most doctors never could. My advice is to make a different 5 year plan, maybe even a different 10 year plan. Keep medicine in the back of your mind and consider going through the struggle to become a physician when you have that space between you and your "criminal history". Its not going to be easy, but its not impossible. I want people like you as my colleagues, but people are right, the system is against you. If you do choose this road, its going to be a struggle at every step. -an MS2 disgruntled with the system

 

[Goro]

Given you're from Kentucky I feel like you'll understand this quip......

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Applying to medical school is NOT like shooting hoops. Med schools wont need the donations

 

[Twiggidy]

Applying to medical school is NOT like shooting hoops. Med schools wont need the donations

What I getting at is if OP doesn’t just apply to med school how will they ever know if they had an actual chance?

Shoot the J. Shoot it!

 

[BAtoDO]

Wanted to start off by saying congratulations on your sobriety. That alone has earned yiu tremendous amount of respect in my eyes.

I’ll share my very limited knowledge. I started med school this year and had a miserable year due to covid. I failed half a credit over what was allowed in my school and they ended up kicking me out despite my very very difficult circumstances and my willingness to do whatever they wanted from me. I ended up clawing my way back in and got accepted to a post Bacc bridge that would get me back to the start of the program if I maintained a certain GPA.

I’ve come to realize that people in medical education are some of the most unforgiving, inconsiderate people I have ever come across. I’ve seen this through my application/interview process and definitely over the course of this year.

i would assume that these same judgements and character traits would be displayed when attempting to start medical school with a criminal background. Medical education is brutal, and the people that are involved are oftentimes heartless. That’s been my experience...

 

[lanadelgay124]

What I getting at is if OP doesn’t just apply to med school how will they ever know if they had an actual chance?

The same can be said of gambling away one's life's savings on the 1 in 1,000,000 chance they'll win the lotto. Ill-advised.

 

[lumya]

What I getting at is if OP doesn’t just apply to med school how will they ever know if they had an actual chance?

Shoot the J. Shoot it!

I think the adcoms are trying to warn of the risks of doing this, not provide definite answers.

It took me 2 cycles, 2 MCATs, and dozens of post-bac courses to get one acceptance. That cost me probably somewhere in the range of 20-30k over 3 years. I work full-time so while this was a lot of money, this was an investment I was willing to take.

I'll end up with somewhere north of $300k for debt, but I feel pretty confident I'll get a residency match, somewhere.

Then I'll be working sub-minimum wage for a couple years hoping that one day down the line I'll make enough to pay catch up, put money back into my retirement account, finally buy a house, have a family ect.

It's a lot of money each step of the way. I'm pretty risk adverse, so if there was a pretty decent chance, my plan could fall through at any point, I would have to reconsider. There is no black/white, right/wrong answer here. OP, I'm sure there is a chance that you will be able to get into med school, will be able to Match to residency, and will be able to get a job as an attending physician - however, your chances may be skewed and that's just the risk you, and your lawyer, need to figure out if you're willing to take.

 

[Goro]

What I getting at is if OP doesn’t just apply to med school how will they ever know if they had an actual chance?

Shoot the J. Shoot it!

That's a **** load of money you're asking the OP to throw away.

 

[Twiggidy]

I think the adcoms are trying to warn of the risks of doing this, not provide definite answers.

It took me 2 cycles, 2 MCATs, and dozens of post-bac courses to get one acceptance. That cost me probably somewhere in the range of 20-30k over 3 years. I work full-time so while this was a lot of money, this was an investment I was willing to take.

I'll end up with somewhere north of $300k for debt, but I feel pretty confident I'll get a residency match, somewhere.

Then I'll be working sub-minimum wage for a couple years hoping that one day down the line I'll make enough to pay catch up, put money back into my retirement account, finally buy a house, have a family ect.

It's a lot of money each step of the way. I'm pretty risk adverse, so if there was a pretty decent chance, my plan could fall through at any point, I would have to reconsider. There is no black/white, right/wrong answer here. OP, I'm sure there is a chance that you will be able to get into med school, will be able to Match to residency, and will be able to get a job as an attending physician - however, your chances may be skewed and that's just the risk you, and your lawyer, need to figure out if you're willing to take.

The MCAT is $320 and the application fee to Kentucky’s med school is $50. The OP is pre-neuroscience so the courses are already done. OP knows they have a limited shot given their background so in my opinion $400 is worth the gamble to potentially become a doctor. I’m no legal expert but if charges get expunged by the time they have to apply for a license they may find themselves in the clear. Biggest hurdle will be getting in and if they’re rejected, as said above, take the neuroscience degree and do something else and it’s only $400 gone.

The best advice I could give OP is to apply to their state schools (UofL and UofK) most for the financial reasons

 

[Twiggidy]

That's a **** load of money you're asking the OP to throw away.

It’s literally $320 for the MCAT and $50 to apply to UK.

 

[Goro]

It’s literally $320 for the MCAT and $50 to apply to UK.

That's one school. It's foolish to just apply to one school. Stop with the bad advice already...you're getting into enabling territory.

 

[Twiggidy]

That's one school. It's foolish to just apply to one school. Stop with the bad advice already...you're getting into enabling territory.

It may be foolish to apply period with their background but if I were giving it a chance and knew I had a high likelihood of failure i would “bet small” and hope for a big reward. When I applied I had a clean record so I could spend all the money I wanted because I knew the return on investment would be worth it.

Again, if it we’re me, I’m with THAT background, I’d put all my energy into one target that will MOST LIKELY give me success instead of 100 targets that a low chances at success

Again, if you fail (which was probably expected) you’re only out $400

 

[Flareicus]

The MCAT is $320 and the application fee to Kentucky’s med school is $50. The OP is pre-neuroscience so the courses are already done. OP knows they have a limited shot given their background so in my opinion $400 is worth the gamble to potentially become a doctor. I’m no legal expert but if charges get expunged by the time they have to apply for a license they may find themselves in the clear. Biggest hurdle will be getting in and if they’re rejected, as said above, take the neuroscience degree and do something else and it’s only $400 gone.

The best advice I could give OP is to apply to their state schools (UofL and UofK) most for the financial reasons

I wouldn't be so cavalier about suggesting someone pursue a path that is inexplicably expensive even for the best of students. It's not a $400 gamble. The hurdles don't stop at getting in for OP.

Assuming we go along with your assumption for pre-med of it only costing $400 (Realistically, it will likely be in the thousands at the very least for applicant costs. Normal applicants should not be applying to 2 schools if they want to get in, let along one with multiple misdemeanors).

Now she finishes med school and faces residency, but she can't match anywhere because of her past convictions. She's now facing $200,000 in debt that she has no good way of paying off.

Assume she makes it into residency but she can't get licensed, now she's facing that $200,000 of debt on top of the interest that's accumulated over her residency.

Assume she finishes residency and gets licensed, now she has to find an attending position that would be willing to once again overlook her record.

For OP, there is no way around the fact that if she's pursuing medicine, she will have to at the very least make a $200,000 bet that her record won't be what defines her career. As we've seen from the story of Leigh Sundham, even if you're an absolute rock star as a medical student, that may not be good enough to overcome a drug conviction (let along a DV conviction on top of it).

 

[Twiggidy]

I wouldn't be so cavalier about suggesting someone pursue a path that is inexplicably expensive even for the best of students. It's not a $400 gamble. The hurdles don't stop at getting in for OP.

Assuming we go along with your assumption for pre-med of it only costing $400 (Realistically, it will likely be in the thousands at the very least for applicant costs. Normal applicants should not be applying to 2 schools if they want to get in, let along one with multiple misdemeanors).

Now she finishes med school and faces residency, but she can't match anywhere because of her past convictions. She's now facing $200,000 in debt that she has no good way of paying off.

Assume she makes it into residency but she can't get licensed, now she's facing that $200,000 of debt on top of the interest that's accumulated over her residency.

Assume she finishes residency and gets licensed, now she has to find an attending position that would be willing to once again overlook her record.

For OP, there is no way around the fact that if she's pursuing medicine, she will have to at the very least make a $200,000 bet that her record won't be what defines her career. As we've seen from the story of Leigh Sundham, even if you're an absolute rock star as a medical student, that may not be good enough to overcome a drug conviction (let along a DV conviction on top of it).

You know. On second reading of the original post and the more I think about it, you guys are right, especially with the up in the air possibility of getting charges expunged. I also started thinking about all the poor students with 3.2s and 3.1s who have otherwise lived non criminal lives and never get into med school who probably deserve a chance more than someone with a record. A bit mean to say but the more I think about it that’s how I feel.

Even if this person jumped every hurdle and applied to my practice, I’m choosing someone with a clean record over them with all else being equal and that’s just a reality.

OP should just go into research or something and yes, avoid the debt

 

[lumya]

The MCAT is $320 and the application fee to Kentucky’s med school is $50. The OP is pre-neuroscience so the courses are already done. OP knows they have a limited shot given their background so in my opinion $400 is worth the gamble to potentially become a doctor. I’m no legal expert but if charges get expunged by the time they have to apply for a license they may find themselves in the clear. Biggest hurdle will be getting in and if they’re rejected, as said above, take the neuroscience degree and do something else and it’s only $400 gone.

The best advice I could give OP is to apply to their state schools (UofL and UofK) most for the financial reasons

OP is still in college and can pivot still if she chooses. Unfortunately "pre-med" is not a very marketable major and many of things that medical schools love to see aren't really transferable to a real job market.

OP, I had a friend who senior year decided to become a neurophysiology technician. He makes excellent money for his first job out of college and works shifts at a hospital that are contract based and spends a good time traveling. He gets to observe a lot of cool surgeries and loves his job. I'm just pointing this out as there are options other than medical school/graduate school that are within the healthcare profession.

 

[YCAGA]

You have an amazing story about youthful folly and recovery. Believe me, any medical school who reviews your application will remember you much better than many of the "i went to a good school and got good grades and did research and that is my entire life story" applicants they have to filter.

You have a real life story. Own that, don't apologize for it. If anything, it probably will intimidate many of your future colleagues.

Getting into medical school and residency isn't a CBS drama where the craziest backstory and redemption arch is the fan favorite. "Being memorable" has been described before in regards to personal statements: 90% will be generic and forgettable, 5% will be incredible, 5% will be horrible. You want to be in the 90% that is forgettable, unless your life story is objectively incredible. Being memorable is not automatically a good thing...

And to be clear, there is a difference between overcoming external adversity (poverty, immigration, personal illness if it won't affect you in medical school, etc) and self-induced adversity (drug use, criminal record). Overcoming external adversity is objectively impressive and bumps an application up a notch compared to a "vanilla", all else being equal.

"i went to a good school and got good grades and did research and that is my entire life story" applicants they have to filter.

This is some Tumblr motivational meme BS and I see it constantly spouted by premeds. A "cool" life story is military service or the Peace Corp, not doing heroin and being violent your significant other. Even then, there is nothing wrong with getting good greats, going to a good school, doing good EC's (including EC's). That is how >90% of people get into medical school and for good reason.

Finally, I would not be "intimidated" by a colleague who has a criminal record and is a recovering heroin addict, at least not in the way you are implying. I mean what?!

 

[YCAGA]

You know. On second reading of the original post and the more I think about it, you guys are right, especially with the up in the air possibility of getting charges expunged. I also started thinking about all the poor students with 3.2s and 3.1s who have otherwise lived non criminal lives and never get into med school who probably deserve a chance more than someone with a record. A bit mean to say but the more I think about it that’s how I feel.

Even if this person jumped every hurdle and applied to my practice, I’m choosing someone with a clean record over them with all else being equal and that’s just a reality.

OP should just go into research or something and yes, avoid the debt

Someone with a 3.1 or 3.2 does not deserve a second chance without crushing the MCAT and a true SMP, but that is just my semi-biased opinion, but also based on the statistics about predictors for failing out of medical school (not just correlation between undergrad grades plus MCAT and medical school grades and Step scores which is less dire). I agree someone without a criminal record should always have preference over someone with a criminal record who otherwise has similar stats and EC's.

 

[GoPenguinsGo]

It may be foolish to apply period with their background but if I were giving it a chance and knew I had a high likelihood of failure i would “bet small” and hope for a big reward. When I applied I had a clean record so I could spend all the money I wanted because I knew the return on investment would be worth it.

Again, if it we’re me, I’m with THAT background, I’d put all my energy into one target that will MOST LIKELY give me success instead of 100 targets that a low chances at success

Again, if you fail (which was probably expected) you’re only out $400

That doesnt take into account:
-Prep Books for the MCAT
-AMCAS Processing fee ($170) plus EVERY additional school is $41 each so if OP applied to say 16 schools (a low number) that would be $785 just for the primary applications to be sent
-AACOMAS processing fee ($196) and each additional school after the first one is $46 so if OP applied to a total of 11 DO schools that would be an additional $656
-Secondary application fees range from $50-$125 from what I’ve experienced. So that an additional $1350-$3375

So that be $3000 right there just... gone. Not $400.

 

[Twiggidy]

That doesnt take into account:
-Prep Books for the MCAT
-AMCAS Processing fee ($170) plus EVERY additional school is $41 each so if OP applied to say 16 schools (a low number) that would be $785 just for the primary applications to be sent
-AACOMAS processing fee ($196) and each additional school after the first one is $46 so if OP applied to a total of 11 DO schools that would be an additional $656
-Secondary application fees range from $50-$125 from what I’ve experienced. So that an additional $1350-$3375

So that be $3000 right there just... gone. Not $400.

Whew. I must’ve gotten lucky. I applied to 4 schools and got into my first choice. That was also 20 yrs ago so who knows.

 

[outtadisworld]

Whew. I must’ve gotten lucky. I applied to 4 schools and got into my first choice. That was also 20 yrs ago so who knows.

Very few people apply to just 4 schools now and get in. People apply to way more than that, spend much more money, and still don't get in. It's extremely competitive now

 

[doctorsmom5594]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

 

[doctorsmom5594]

You will be asked if you ever pled guilty to a felony or misdemeanor. My daughter had a DUI and a drug charge that was dropped, she had no problems getting a residency.
During interviews one remarked that he did bad things also when young just never got caught.

 

[Cellochick0528]

I wouldn't be so cavalier about suggesting someone pursue a path that is inexplicably expensive even for the best of students. It's not a $400 gamble. The hurdles don't stop at getting in for OP.

Assuming we go along with your assumption for pre-med of it only costing $400 (Realistically, it will likely be in the thousands at the very least for applicant costs. Normal applicants should not be applying to 2 schools if they want to get in, let along one with multiple misdemeanors).

Now she finishes med school and faces residency, but she can't match anywhere because of her past convictions. She's now facing $200,000 in debt that she has no good way of paying off.

Assume she makes it into residency but she can't get licensed, now she's facing that $200,000 of debt on top of the interest that's accumulated over her residency.

Assume she finishes residency and gets licensed, now she has to find an attending position that would be willing to once again overlook her record.

For OP, there is no way around the fact that if she's pursuing medicine, she will have to at the very least make a $200,000 bet that her record won't be what defines her career. As we've seen from the story of Leigh Sundham, even if you're an absolute rock star as a medical student, that may not be good enough to overcome a drug conviction (let along a DV conviction on top of it).

Recently accepted med students, let’s just pray to the GODS that no one plants drugs in our cars. Or our careers are over forever! What a merciless and unforgiving society we live in.

 

[chs]

Don’t become a Med school grad with a dream, tons of debt and not able to get a residency.
Consider psychology instead of psychiatry or become a nurse practitioner and go in thru the back door.
Very doubtful you will end up as a practicing MD without significantly powerful connections. You will also be looking a really expensive process.
If you are a perfect candidate, becoming a doc is a long and fairly expensive process. The less perfect you are, the longer and more expensive the journey.
Some things seem cool but aren’t worth it in the end. Maybe like buying an expensive sports car when you only drive in town or climbing Everest and someone dies.
PS - I’ll bet DoctorsMom5594’s daughter is white and at least middle class. And the interviewer who was forgiving probably was, as well. Much easier to dismiss drugs and DUI as youthful folly for a white sorority girl type than how it would be perceived in say a black or brown fella with an “urban” accent.
PPS - I was amazed to find that people apply to hundreds of med schools and residencies these days. We’re talking $3-4k just for app fees. The one who applied to only 4 schools did that 20 yrs ago. The days of it not being a ridiculously expensive path are gone.

 

[ThemedicaldentalJew]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

 

[blacco]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

Grats on getting sober, but yeah you should probably look elsewhere. If you had a 4.0 and 528 on the MCAT, maybe and only maybe, would a school consider giving you an interview. If you wait to apply until charges are off your record that’s a different story. If you attempt to apply with heroin and domestic violence there is practically 0 chance. You have to think, most people applying have stellar resumes, which they’ve been contributing to for years. Some might have a drinking charge that they have to explain, and even that makes it difficult to get in. A friend of mine had a stellar resume (NIH research post bac), strong GPA and MCAT, and he had a honor code violation. He didn’t get in anywhere. N=1 but the point is small things can hurt you. If it were just domestic violence or just heroin, you probably don’t get any interviews, with both, the chance is practically 0. Sorry to be blunt, but the fact is this process is extremely time consuming and expensive. You shouldn’t waste your time and money.

In 4-5 years if you are still sober and the charges are dropped, you could always take the MCAT and apply then...

 

[trombone-premed]

If it hasn't been linked yet, take a look here: Can You Become a Doctor If You've Been Arrested?

 

[YCAGA]

ThatOneShyGirl: take a hard look at that reply and get used to it. You will meet people like this both in medical school and in residency. You can't avoid them, but when you're a third year resident and helping evaluate potential interns, you can definitely vet the applicant with an fb profile pic from their tour of Afghanistan (apparently fighting imperialist wars is a "cool story", and not evidence of exploitation, or being a callow rube). You'd be a fool to let someone like this play a role in your future. My final word of advice is this: avoid SDN for advice lol. Best of luck.​

Hmm…0 posts in 5 years until today, then you start talking about imperialist wars and complaining that realists like me exist in medicine....I think there is a saying for this...don't feed the...what is it again?

Even if you weren’t a troll account probably run by someone not even in medical school, let alone a physician, the irony of your reply is too juicy not to comment on. Nothing like you saying that people like me that believe "the most qualified people should get into medical school" will get screened out in residency interviews, but people like you who are rambling about imperialist wars and "callow rubes" in regards to military veterans are the kind of people that will match at top programs and be excellent co-residents

 

[ThatOneShyGirl]

Don’t become a Med school grad with a dream, tons of debt and not able to get a residency.
Consider psychology instead of psychiatry or become a nurse practitioner and go in thru the back door.
Very doubtful you will end up as a practicing MD without significantly powerful connections. You will also be looking a really expensive process.
If you are a perfect candidate, becoming a doc is a long and fairly expensive process. The less perfect you are, the longer and more expensive the journey.
Some things seem cool but aren’t worth it in the end. Maybe like buying an expensive sports car when you only drive in town or climbing Everest and someone dies.
PS - I’ll bet DoctorsMom5594’s daughter is white and at least middle class. And the interviewer who was forgiving probably was, as well. Much easier to dismiss drugs and DUI as youthful folly for a white sorority girl type than how it would be perceived in say a black or brown fella with an “urban” accent.
PPS - I was amazed to find that people apply to hundreds of med schools and residencies these days. We’re talking $3-4k just for app fees. The one who applied to only 4 schools did that 20 yrs ago. The days of it not being a ridiculously expensive path are gone.

I'm white and middle class. That means I'll get in with heroin and domestic violence charges then, right?
I'm only kidding (sorta).
Anyway, why do you think these charges wouldn't matter in the NP path? Do you think the same about becoming a PA? That is looking like a much better route now that everyone has told me to give up on my dreams (not NP because I'd have to start over with a nursing bachelor's etc.).

 

[ThatOneShyGirl]

OP is still in college and can pivot still if she chooses. Unfortunately "pre-med" is not a very marketable major and many of things that medical schools love to see aren't really transferable to a real job market.

OP, I had a friend who senior year decided to become a neurophysiology technician. He makes excellent money for his first job out of college and works shifts at a hospital that are contract based and spends a good time traveling. He gets to observe a lot of cool surgeries and loves his job. I'm just pointing this out as there are options other than medical school/graduate school that are within the healthcare profession.

Do you have any suggestions? Thank you for mentioning "neurophysiology technician!" I just Googled it and it actually sounds interesting to me. I am clueless as to what other careers in the medical field I would enjoy because I don't even know of many career titles that aren't MD/DO/NP/PA/RN! Please let me know if you know if any other careers I'd be interested in--I haven't heard of much!

 

[ThatOneShyGirl]

Grats on getting sober, but yeah you should probably look elsewhere. If you had a 4.0 and 528 on the MCAT, maybe and only maybe, would a school consider giving you an interview. If you wait to apply until charges are off your record that’s a different story. If you attempt to apply with heroin and domestic violence there is practically 0 chance. You have to think, most people applying have stellar resumes, which they’ve been contributing to for years. Some might have a drinking charge that they have to explain, and even that makes it difficult to get in. A friend of mine had a stellar resume (NIH research post bac), strong GPA and MCAT, and he had a honor code violation. He didn’t get in anywhere. N=1 but the point is small things can hurt you. If it were just domestic violence or just heroin, you probably don’t get any interviews, with both, the chance is practically 0. Sorry to be blunt, but the fact is this process is extremely time consuming and expensive. You shouldn’t waste your time and money.

In 4-5 years if you are still sober and the charges are dropped, you could always take the MCAT and apply then...

Thank you for your reply! In response to your last comment: That is definitely not what I want to do. I do not want to sit around for years--forgetting everything I learned in my bachelor's degree--only to have to re-learn it all and struggle to take the MCAT years after I finished my BS. At that point, I think I should definitely give up on my dreams.

 

[ThatOneShyGirl]

You will be asked if you ever pled guilty to a felony or misdemeanor. My daughter had a DUI and a drug charge that was dropped, she had no problems getting a residency.
During interviews one remarked that he did bad things also when young just never got caught.

Thanks for your reply!
How did she get it dropped? Did she speak about these charges in interviews and/or mention them on applications? How much time was there between the charges and her applications to medical school?
Thanks again!

 

[ThatOneShyGirl]

I wouldn't be so cavalier about suggesting someone pursue a path that is inexplicably expensive even for the best of students. It's not a $400 gamble. The hurdles don't stop at getting in for OP.

Assuming we go along with your assumption for pre-med of it only costing $400 (Realistically, it will likely be in the thousands at the very least for applicant costs. Normal applicants should not be applying to 2 schools if they want to get in, let along one with multiple misdemeanors).

Now she finishes med school and faces residency, but she can't match anywhere because of her past convictions. She's now facing $200,000 in debt that she has no good way of paying off.

Assume she makes it into residency but she can't get licensed, now she's facing that $200,000 of debt on top of the interest that's accumulated over her residency.

Assume she finishes residency and gets licensed, now she has to find an attending position that would be willing to once again overlook her record.

For OP, there is no way around the fact that if she's pursuing medicine, she will have to at the very least make a $200,000 bet that her record won't be what defines her career. As we've seen from the story of Leigh Sundham, even if you're an absolute rock star as a medical student, that may not be good enough to overcome a drug conviction (let along a DV conviction on top of it).

Thanks for your reply!
What do you suggest then? Do you know of many similar careers that I may enjoy (not psychologist/therapist/counselor!)?

 

[ThatOneShyGirl]

I think the adcoms are trying to warn of the risks of doing this, not provide definite answers.

It took me 2 cycles, 2 MCATs, and dozens of post-bac courses to get one acceptance. That cost me probably somewhere in the range of 20-30k over 3 years. I work full-time so while this was a lot of money, this was an investment I was willing to take.

I'll end up with somewhere north of $300k for debt, but I feel pretty confident I'll get a residency match, somewhere.

Then I'll be working sub-minimum wage for a couple years hoping that one day down the line I'll make enough to pay catch up, put money back into my retirement account, finally buy a house, have a family ect.

It's a lot of money each step of the way. I'm pretty risk adverse, so if there was a pretty decent chance, my plan could fall through at any point, I would have to reconsider. There is no black/white, right/wrong answer here. OP, I'm sure there is a chance that you will be able to get into med school, will be able to Match to residency, and will be able to get a job as an attending physician - however, your chances may be skewed and that's just the risk you, and your lawyer, need to figure out if you're willing to take.

Thanks for your reply!
Why did you continue to pursue this path after 2 cycles, 2 MCATS, 3 years, $300k, etc.? Do you regret it? What would you change if you could change the past?

 

[ThatOneShyGirl]

Go find another career.

Do you have any suggestions (which are not psychologist/therapist/counselor)?

 

[ThatOneShyGirl]

First, congratulations on your current path of life and recovery!

My experience says medical school is a possibility in regard to the drug charge, however, the assault may give you more trouble. I personally had 15 years of addiction including two misdemeanor possession charges for heroin (2012, 2013), one for cocaine (2007), and larceny under $1000 (2013-stole from Walmart) - I'm just about to wrap up my first year of medical school (yes a US medical school). That being said, I had 7 years between my addiction, criminal history, and my application to medical school along with an extensively documented history of long-term residential treatment, being an impactful and productive citizen, documented sobriety, and a high level of performance during undergraduate studies.

My interview was fairly easy for me - meaning I didn't have to answer the cliche interview questions because my criminal history and charges took up the whole time, but we had a good time just talking about it, what it was like, and what I've learned through the whole experience.

My personal opinion says you should plan to take a gap year. I'm not sure what your stats are like, but even with a stellar cGPA, sGPA, MCAT score, and ECs, you face the disadvantage of not having a lot of time between your last criminal charge and where you are today, a violent offense regardless of the circumstances unfortunately, and some medical concerns.

Lastly, and this is a common issue with the recovery community, but I am unsure as to how you define "clean and sober." Do you consider complete abstinence sober, or as long as you're not doing heroin you can still drink? The question isn't an indictment on your personal views, and what works for one doesn't work for others although the data and my personal beliefs say complete abstinence is the way to go, but if you do use alcohol I would consider what your social media platforms look like because ADCOMs would probably view alcohol use as a high risk factor for relapse in considering your application.

Hope that helps and feel free to ask me any questions - best of luck

Thanks so much for your reply! Congratulations on getting sober!
When you applied to medical school, had you had your charges expunged? Did you disclose them on applications? How many schools did you apply to and how many were you accepted to?
I consider "clean and sober" to include both heroin and alcohol--and everything else that is not coffee or prescribed medications taken as prescribed. I haven't had a drop of alcohol or anything else since 06/24/2019 and the only social media platform I use for anything but posting pictures of my pet leopard geckos is Reddit!

 

[BillytheEchidna]

Do you have any suggestions of alternate careers to pursue? I am not interested in therapy/psychology--I am far more interested in the medical aspect.

Psychiatry for someone who loves brains is kind of a head-scratcher to me. It's not like you can LOOK at people's brains as a psychiatrist. A neuropathologist, on the other hand, literally looks at brains. Gross brains; brain sections on microscope slides. If you love the brain, you would love being a neuropathologist. The ones where I work are MD/PhD's who do research to discover the molecular basis of cancer and treatments that target those mutations or molecular oddities. I know there are some dual-degree programs, but I would recommend you get your PhD in neuroscience while you get distance from your misdemeanors and then you can apply to medical school. If you don't get in, you will still be able to work in research. Residency in pathology, fellowship in neuropathology, I think. Additional fellowship in molecular pathology would also be a savvy move.

Even if your record is expunged, Google and the internet are forever and any arrest reports from the media would show up there. Your story is so specific and legend has it that Adcoms check SDN and can recognize you.

Good luck to you! Maybe this country will go single-payer healthcare and the whole system will implode and be rebuilt for the better?

 

[Greencircle]

I am currently a 22 year old junior pre-med neuroscience student in Kentucky. I have planned the last several years of my life around my goal of becoming a doctor of psychiatry.

In February 2017, I recieved several drug-related criminal charges but was only convicted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for possession of heroin (yes, that can be a misdemeanor! I am very lucky!). In April 2019, I was convincted of a 4th degree misdemeanor for domestic violence after I faught back when my abusive ex-boyfriend was beating me.
EDIT: I also had emergency brain surgery at the end of 2017 and I had to spend the next 2ish years recovering from this and taking a hiatus from college due to the resulting effects, including epilepsy. I had a chunk of my temporal lobe removed and I was sometimes having 7:20 seizures within just 3 or 4 days. I was not exactly thinking too clearly at this time. I have now learned to adapt and my epilepsy is under control.

I have been clean and sober today since June 24, 2019 and I have truly changed my life around. I plan on taking the MCAT and applying to medical school in the summer of 2022 and beginning in fall 2023. My charges will not be available for expungement until 7 years after my plea dates, which will be May 2024 and April 2026.

Do these criminal charges greatly hinder my ability to get into medical school? Will they affect my ability to work in a hospital during medical school? How much/how little? Is there no hope? What should I do?

I have been told that I will be asked if I have been convicted of any criminal charges during an interview, and will likely also be asked if I have had any charges expunged for entry into a residency program. Will I have to answer yes? If I manage to get my charges expunged, will I have to admit to getting them expunged? Could they see these charges regardless?

Would it be totally crazy and stupid to go to the medical admissions office of the school I attend and ask them about it?

I'm happy to expand on whatever you'd like. Thank you in advance for your help! I sincerely appreciate it!

EDIT: I have read the story of Leigh Sundem! I am fully aware of that tragedy.

EDIT #2: I just want to thank all of you again for your help, advice, and taking time out of your very busy schedules to share your knowledge. I truly appreciate every single one of you and I cannot thank you enough.

From what I know - or what little I know, medical schools are not likely to accept candidates with public records. The probable reason is to avoid receiving potentially negative publicity. Even if you get enrolled into one, the bar is higher for affiliated residency institutions. Therefore, you options to practice as a inpatient physician is pretty grim in my opinion. In western societies, standards are becoming increasingly lenient, so the supply of more formerly underqualified candidates would arguably create more competition for you.

So, what can you do to increase your options you might ask?

Well, you could apply to medical programs outside your country of residence. Perform through research on such programs. I know of some that provide free tuition, would overlook your public record, or would not have your public records appear within their radar at all! Imagine that. Also, I would consider looking into non-Western countries because they are likely to become more accepting of students from Western countries, with fain. Regardless of their public records. If you are still thinking about attending programs in Western countries, seek medical programs within regions where the supply of physicians is low, and that are willing to grab anybody they can get.

Furthermore, expand your social network within your discipline of interest. Try to develop rapport with admission representatives. Connect with the school administrators via email, or apply to internship programs that you could then use as a springboard. Building relations is a surefire way to get into medical schools.

Consider my suggestions if you are truly passionate about practicing medicine. If you feel that your options are critically limited in your country of residence, try schools outside in the hopes of beginning your life afresh.

If you are considering a different career path, try stock trading, making videos for your Youtube channel, and investing in real estate. All of which are lucrative and do not require a background check. However, the biggest caveat is that you have to put in hard work and work consistently to a point where you definitively have reached your success. Make sure to offer something unique and creative through positive feedback. Capitalize on your creativity that you see leading you to your goal.

I hope my advice helps. Like the old saying goes: If there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Proudfather94]

Would she be able to go to a different country, become a doctor there, take the boards and if she passes practice here?
Op is there anything you can do to get the dv charge dropped? I don't know much about the legal system but if things went down like you said there has to be some way you can appeal it.