DO schools and "easy" dont go together...

[Hardbody]

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So D.O. is supposed to attract people based on a preference for the wonderful philosphy of D.O. medicine (which I am quite in sync with and happy to see the M.D. schools adopting some tenants of)?

You pre-DO's are really showing it. Note above comment using the offensive "R" word, and the major justification of many of you for doing D.O. as money. And as far as D.O. applicants being better rounded and having awesome experiences, guess what? M.D. applicants, as you say, are quite competitive - so much so that there are plenty of people who have done incredible things and know how to do well on the MCAT and have a great GPA.

And now to throw in my own anecdote, which is what so many here are relying upon. My cousin, who did poorly on the MCAT and had a very average GPA applied M.D. and D.O., and didn't get either. He's one racist S.O.B. and has no business practicing medicine, let alone even interacting with patients (so put aside that D.O.'s care more about their patients crap). Where is he now? At Kirksville in some ridiculous post-bac pre-osteo program which basically allows him to "buy" his way into medical school (although osteopathic).

And as far as osteopaths spending more time with their patients, did you ever think that perhaps they have to becuase their diagnosis technique isn't as good as an M.D.'s (less efficient)? I'm just throwing it out there...I'd love to see oseopathic schools host well-qualified students who care more about their patients, but you osteopathic folks need to stop deluding yourselves and justifying your own inadequacies, and face the reality of the current situation.

I believe what you said (highlighted) is totally bunk, at least among DOs that specialize. Through my shadowing experience (MD and DO), I can tell you that there is no difference in the amount of time either spends with patients.

 

[HumbleMD]

Note the "just throwing it out there." But me speaking with no concrete evidence whatsoever is no more off base than any other anecdotal "evidence" posited by other posters on this thread.

 

[Hardbody]

Note the "just throwing it out there." But me speaking with no concrete evidence whatsoever is no more off base than any other anecdotal "evidence" posited by other posters on this thread.

True, but I did want to mention my experience with DOs. BTW, using the word "bunk" was a bit harsh.

 

[t-funk]

Just ignore HumbleMD. His primary purpose is to attempt to offend everyone that he can and to demonstrate his obvious superiority and elitist existence over everyone else.

 

[HumbleMD]

Just ignore HumbleMD. His primary purpose is to attempt to offend everyone that he can and to demonstrate his obvious superiority and elitist existence over everyone else.

Well thanks at least for pointing out my superiority is obvious. Just kidding! I really am happy that there are plenty of osteopaths who truly care for the well-being of patients as a person, seen holistically (I'm an anthroplogy major myself t-funk). But let's be realistic, there are M.D.s in it for the money or cultural capital, and there are plenty of D.O.'s in it for the same reason.

 

[xylem29]

Well thanks at least for pointing out my superiority is obvious. Just kidding! I really am happy that there are plenty of osteopaths who truly care for the well-being of patients as a person, seen holistically (I'm an anthroplogy major myself t-funk). But let's be realistic, there are M.D.s in it for the money or cultural capital, and there are plenty of D.O.'s in it for the same reason.

I like that concept - cultural capital.

 

[HumbleMD]

I like that concept - cultural capital.

It's the anthropologist's term for those pursuing something for prestige, status, etc., and also embodies education, language and other concepts. I'd say the pursuit of it is what keeps me from getting along with ivory tower academics.

 

[Dr.TobiasFünke]

Y Historically DO's are a little older (not right out of undergrad) and have more life experiences. School admissions at DO schools look at the WHOLE package because they know that there is more to being a good doctor than scoring high on the MCAT.

FYI... MD schools look at the WHOLE package too.

 

[jp104]

FYI... MD schools look at the WHOLE package too.

MD schools look at the whole package, but their higher cutoffs for GPA screen more people out.

Take into account that allopathic schools calculate GPA by averaging class grades (for retakes) instead of replacing them. This means that older non-trad applicants who improve in post-bacc are not as competitve as they would be in the AACOMAS application.

Just a few random observations 🙂

 

[HumbleMD]

MD schools look at the whole package, but their higher cutoffs for GPA screen more people out.

Take into account that allopathic schools calculate GPA by averaging class grades (for retakes) instead of replacing them. This means that older non-trad applicants who improve in post-bacc are not as competitve as they would be in the AACOMAS application.

Just a few random observations 🙂

And this is problematic how?😕
You don't get "re-dos" on patients...

 

[Taus]

And this is problematic how?😕
You don't get "re-dos" on patients...

thank god for med school, internship + residency to iron out all the patient care kinks....

 

[jp104]

And this is problematic how?😕
You don't get "re-dos" on patients...

I don't understand your comment on "re-dos" for patients. I was commenting on one of the ways that DO schools look more "holistically" at applicants.

 

[HumbleMD]

I don't understand your comment on "re-dos" for patients. I was commenting on one of the ways that DO schools look more "holistically" at applicants.

MD schools look at the whole package, but their higher cutoffs for GPA screen more people out.

Take into account that allopathic schools calculate GPA by averaging class grades (for retakes) instead of replacing them. This means that older non-trad applicants who improve in post-bacc are not as competitve as they would be in the AACOMAS application.

Just a few random observations 🙂

Re-dos in classes.

 

[Mixtli]

Just to throw in my two cents, I would have been accepted into the two, well-respected allopathic schools in my home state- I met with representatives including the deans, etc. I chose DO over MD despite the fact that there are no schools in my state and few in the southeast region because I researched the subject, read some articles, followed a few DOs long term, and asked their patients what they liked most about their doctors. The resounding response from patients tipped me over the edge in my decision to apply only DO. The patients truly liked and trusted their physicians- even if they had a neccessarily stand-offish relationship, the patients knew their best interests were at heart. As an RN, constantly counseling patients about what a doctor meant when he said this, why is he so rude, etc., this stood out. I then read an article in JoAP I think which broke down amount to time spent on average with patients in offices by NPs, PAs, MDs, and DOs. MDs averaged, I think, 11 min. DOs averaged 20-22 min- doesn't that say it all?

Your research is quite short-sighted. It is an uphill battle for you to get a residency spot outside of primary care as you may need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE. Furthermore, if you had done your research, there are more DO schools opening and more seats opening faster than DO residency spots = greater competition. Had you done your research, you would have found out that MDs from top allo schools who get average or below average on their USMLEs still match into very competitive hospitals (Harvard, UPenn). You can find this information on the SDN (under medical specialties). Your decision to choose DO vs. MD based on amount of patient interaction is immature and perpetuate the myth that DOs are about the "whole package", more humanistic when in fact DOs and MDs in the same medical field practically do the same thing but arrive at it through different paths.

 

[jp104]

Re-dos in classes.

So if I got an F in a class 15 years ago, the fact that I re-took it and got an A means that I am somehow less capable to treat a patient? Since I don't get "re-dos" with patients?

 

[Kuba]

DO schools don't look at the whole package any more than MD schools. GPAs and MCATs are lower because the GPA and MCAT of the applicant pool is lower.

DO's ARE NOT less efficient, or any worse than MDs for that matter. There are crappy DOs and crappy MDs and vice versa. DO diagnostic skills, if anything, may be better due to the added OMM diagnostic tool.

 

[Kuba]

there is a big combination of pre-MD ignorance and pre-DO insecurity here on SDN IMO.

 

[Mixtli]

So if I got an F in a class 15 years ago, the fact that I re-took it and got an A means that I am somehow less capable to treat a patient? Since I don't get "re-dos" with patients?

Your getting a F says something about your character. You had other matters more important than studying and dismissed trying your best to gain admission to graduate school. Your getting an A says you realized your short-coming and identifies hard work and academic capability. If your attitude of not caring the first time around is carried over, you will be incapable of treating patients. Med schools reject applicants for Fs for a reason. I suggest you correct your precocious attitude.

 

[Kuba]

Your getting a F says something about your character. You had other matters more important than studying and dismissed trying your best to gain admission to graduate school. Your getting an A says you realized your short-coming and identifies hard work and academic capability. If your attitude of not caring the first time around is carried over, you will be incapable of treating patients. Med schools reject applicants for Fs for a reason. I suggest you correct your precocious attitude.

I have received an F in undergrad also, does that mean I cant be a good doctor?

 

[Mixtli]

If you looked at my comment, I said something along the lines of "if your attitude of not caring" persists in your treating of patient. If you don't care to learn how to treat a patient, how can you care for them?

 

[Kuba]

If you looked at my comment, I said something along the lines of "if your attitude of not caring" persists in your treating of patient. If you don't care to learn how to treat a patient, how can you care for them?

why would you assume that if someone got an F if they didnt care to learn how to treat a patient? You don't know the circumstances or course they got an F in. For example, my F was in an advanced Calculus course. You're right, I didn't care to learn that, but I would obviously care to learn to care for a patient since you have to be passionate about medicine in order to pursue it.

 

[Kuba]

Your research is quite short-sighted. It is an uphill battle for you to get a residency spot outside of primary care as you may need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE. Furthermore, if you had done your research, there are more DO schools opening and more seats opening faster than DO residency spots = greater competition. Had you done your research, you would have found out that MDs from top allo schools who get average or below average on their USMLEs still match into very competitive hospitals (Harvard, UPenn). You can find this information on the SDN (under medical specialties). Your decision to choose DO vs. MD based on amount of patient interaction is immature and perpetuate the myth that DOs are about the "whole package", more humanistic when in fact DOs and MDs in the same medical field practically do the same thing but arrive at it through different paths.

I agree with this, and so does a PCOM professor of OMM who made a demonstration during open house. All doctors look at the whole package.

 

[jp104]

Your getting a F says something about your character. You had other matters more important than studying and dismissed trying your best to gain admission to graduate school. Your getting an A says you realized your short-coming and identifies hard work and academic capability. If your attitude of not caring the first time around is carried over, you will be incapable of treating patients. Med schools reject applicants for Fs for a reason. I suggest you correct your precocious attitude.

I agree with everything you say here. Minus the last comment. The only point I wished to bring up (and now regret since I unwittingly got suckered into a MD/DO penis measuring fest) was that there are alot of applicants like myself who would not have gotten into medicine given their past academic performance. A DO school saw past that and accepted me. An MD school would not have. Fair enough.

I am thankful that a school realized that the JP104 of 15 years ago is not the same JP104 today.

At any rate, I am done here. Have a good life, as they say, Mixtli.

JP

 

[HumbleMD]

.

 

[MaximusD]

is it still taught by that pompous d*&chebag who seems to mention that he trained at Hopkins about 5 times per class?

yes, that guy does talk about hopkins still.

I apologize, however, I don't think he's a douchebag but his lectures DID suck -- I will give you that one haha.

Oh yeah, get me into PCOM 🙂

 

[Taus]

yes, that guy does talk about hopkins still.

I apologize, however, I don't think he's a douchebag but his lectures DID suck -- I will give you that one haha.

Oh yeah, get me into PCOM 🙂

he gets the d-bag designation from me b/c of his incessant mentioning of his hopkins training (no joke 3-4 times per class) and instillation of a mandatory attendance and sign in policy every class b/c he heard people were rude when a guest lecturer was there.....

good luck w/ the pcom thing....my class has over 30 psu grads and the class below me has a large number as well.... a lot of us think Dr. Mitchell has some pull here...

 

[Nate]

Ahhh, two of the funniest things to be repeated on SDN regularly by pre-meds appear together in one thread. “DOs are more holistic, are more anything than MDs” line of crap and the most funny “an F will make you a bad doctor”. Love it. One thing that became apparent to me applying is that MD schools are rather closed to non-traditional applicant, which is one difference that I will support.

I have said it before and I will say it again, med school doesn’t determine how one human being will treat another (holistic, etc.), it is that individual’s character. DO school is medical school with a different history but a similar future, OMM, and individual schools that may be better than others (DO or MD) in certain areas of their curriculum. In the end, we all have to get to a certain minimum as determined by the national equalizer board exams. Also, most of the training on patient care is done during residency, or so I have been told over and over, and so since DOs train along side MDs, what the hell can the difference be?

But anyway, if no one else has anything to say about “DO schools not being easy to get into” then we can close this MD vs. DO degenerating thread soon.

 

[Kuba]

Ahhh, two of the funniest things to be repeated on SDN regularly by pre-meds appear together in one thread. “DOs are more holistic, are more anything than MDs” line of crap and the most funny “an F will make you a bad doctor”. Love it. One thing that became apparent to me applying is that MD schools are rather closed to non-traditional applicant, which is one difference that I will support.

I have said it before and I will say it again, med school doesn’t determine how one human being will treat another (holistic, etc.), it is that individual’s character. DO school is medical school with a different history but a similar future, OMM, and individual schools that may be better than others (DO or MD) in certain areas of their curriculum. In the end, we all have to get to a certain minimum as determined by the national equalizer board exams. Also, most of the training on patient care is done during residency, or so I have been told over and over, and so since DOs train along side MDs, what the hell can the difference be?

But anyway, if no one else has anything to say about “DO schools not being easy to get into” then we can close this MD vs. DO degenerating thread soon.

👍

 

[momgracea]

Your getting a F says something about your character. You had other matters more important than studying and dismissed trying your best to gain admission to graduate school. Your getting an A says you realized your short-coming and identifies hard work and academic capability. If your attitude of not caring the first time around is carried over, you will be incapable of treating patients. Med schools reject applicants for Fs for a reason. I suggest you correct your precocious attitude.

Hmmm.... I got an F, a D-, and a couple of C's twenty three years ago. I had to leave school (at seventeen, no less) to support my mom and sister when my father abandoned them. You are right. That does say something about my character and certainly that I had "other matters more important than studying." Perhaps, it says I will be a better doctor because I understand what truly matters.

Don't be so quick to paint everyone with such a broad brush.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

I would not agree on some the staff you stated. It is my 3rd year applying. First 2 years I applied only to MD schools because I had no idea about DO schools. It is a hard process, and obviously I did not get in first two times. However, this year I am applying also to DO schools and the process is easy as one, two , three. Interviews are very casual and relaxing, hearing from schools so soon is very nice (i mean about secondaries, interviews and acceptances). So so far for me the process was piece of cake!😀

u only got into dmu, not like u got into all your schools u applied to. so how can u say its easy as cake?

 

[Zerodegree]

You pre-DO's are really showing it. Note above comment using the offensive "R" word, and the major justification of many of you for doing D.O. as money. And as far as D.O. applicants being better rounded and having awesome experiences, guess what? M.D. applicants, as you say, are quite competitive - so much so that there are plenty of people who have done incredible things and know how to do well on the MCAT and have a great GPA.

...

And as far as osteopaths spending more time with their patients, did you ever think that perhaps they have to becuase their diagnosis technique isn't as good as an M.D.'s (less efficient)? I'm just throwing it out there...

I'd love to see oseopathic schools host well-qualified students who care more about their patients, but you osteopathic folks need to stop deluding yourselves and justifying your own inadequacies, and face the reality of the current situation.

Oh I get it, you chose "Humble" for the irony, clever.

Seriously, this is some of the most condescending drivel I have read. Looking at your mdapps, I see that I've been interviewed and accepted at most of the same schools as you. I'll be sure to keep checking your updates and hope I don't end up at the same place as you. And I hope you enjoyed berating your future colleagues in attempt to "justify your own inadequacies".

 

[beastmaster]

Your decision to choose DO vs. MD based on amount of patient interaction is immature and perpetuate the myth that DOs are about the "whole package", more humanistic when in fact DOs and MDs in the same medical field practically do the same thing but arrive at it through different paths.

I assure you, that in all my patient encounters, the very first thing I look at is "the package."

 

[MadHopsMD]

Oh I get it, you chose "Humble" for the irony, clever.
Seriously, this is some of the most condescending drivel I have read. Looking at your mdapps, I see that I've been interviewed and accepted at most of the same schools as you. I'll be sure to keep checking your updates and hope I don't end up at the same place as you. And I hope you enjoyed berating your future colleagues in attempt to "justify your own inadequacies".

I am following Humble Md's post for a while now, and I don't think he meant to say that. Like most of us, he is probably sick of pre-meds saying they choose "DO over MD" because "DO's spend more time with patients" or "MD's do not care about patients" Or "OMM should be mandatory in order to learn medicine".

The reality as I see it is that MAJORITY of you applying to DO have some inadequacies... most common: Low MCAT, Low GPA. That's fine; everyone has reasons why they got a low MCAT score (language barrier, bad test day) or low GPA (not focused in freshman year, nontraditional). DO schools give compassionate AND intelligent premeds a chance to become physicians, who would not have garnered an entrance to MD schools. Which we, as future physicians, should all appreciate 👍.

 

[MadHopsMD]

wow so the people at psu are dinguses once again. in my HPA class they made us memorize 2:1 rejected:accepted. Maybe that is an outdated number. Thanks for the recorrection drkuba.👍

Yes, in fact, it is an outdated number. In 1996 it use to be 2:1 (AMCAS numbers (MD schools only): 47K applied, 16K got accepted). It was predicted it was gonna get worse...but it hasnt.

 

[jason3278]

Hmmm.... I got an F, a D-, and a couple of C's twenty three years ago. I had to leave school (at seventeen, no less) to support my mom and sister when my father abandoned them. You are right. That does say something about my character and certainly that I had "other matters more important than studying." Perhaps, it says I will be a better doctor because I understand what truly matters.

Don't be so quick to paint everyone with such a broad brush.

 

[jkhamlin]

Hmmm.... I got an F, a D-, and a couple of C's twenty three years ago. I had to leave school (at seventeen, no less) to support my mom and sister when my father abandoned them. You are right. That does say something about my character and certainly that I had "other matters more important than studying." Perhaps, it says I will be a better doctor because I understand what truly matters.

Don't be so quick to paint everyone with such a broad brush.

👍
I wanted so bad to correct Mixtli's "precocious" statement, but I couldn't have worded it this well. 👍

 

[jkhamlin]

Oh I get it, you chose "Humble" for the irony, clever.

Seriously, this is some of the most condescending drivel I have read. Looking at your mdapps, I see that I've been interviewed and accepted at most of the same schools as you. I'll be sure to keep checking your updates and hope I don't end up at the same place as you. And I hope you enjoyed berating your future colleagues in attempt to "justify your own inadequacies".

👍

 

[myleghurts]

HumbleMD is correct once again.

 

[Instatewaiter]

MDs averaged, I think, 11 min. DOs averaged 20-22 min- doesn't that say it all?

Perhaps this number speaks more about the demand of each type of doc than about thier 'care' for the patients.

One thing that became apparent to me applying is that MD schools are rather closed to non-traditional applicant, which is one difference that I will support.

I think this should be added to the list of fallacies about MD/DO schools. In my class we have about 8 people who are in their 30s and 1 that is 38. MD schools are not against non-traditional applicants but that doesn't mean you get a free pass because you are older.

I'd love to see oseopathic schools host well-qualified students who care more about their patients, but you osteopathic folks need to stop deluding yourselves and justifying your own inadequacies, and face the reality of the current situation.

Until I came to SDN I had never heard of anyone being excited about applying to a DO school. It was always like,

Student 1: hey jim where are you applying?
Jim: DO schools
Student 1: Oh
Jim: ...yeah

Come to think of it, I have yet to meet anyone who is very enthused about it before applying. This may be because of where I live but it seems to me that most people end up loving DO schools out of necesisty to maintain their tattered egos.

 

[ben_medicine]

That is not true i know a few ppl who are very exited to apply to DO schools. I like the DO philosophies so much that i only applied to them. Yes, we are a rare breed and come few and far between but that doesn't mean that we aren't out their.

 

[toothless rufus]

Regarding tolerance for an imperfect life: It seems in the MD world it is stumble or fall; you are out. If you are not a "traditional" student you are out. No quarter is given for second chances, or false starts. In the DO world, it is stumble or fall, get back up, dust yourself off, learn from your mistakes, grow as a person, and get back on the path to do what you love and dream about doing. And the things that you discover along the way will serve you and your patients excellently. The potential was there either way.

Some people choose DO over MD because they feel that it is a better fit, "even" with amazing gpas. DO is not simply a backdoor to medicine for the "underachievers". Of course, some people also do go DO because they couldn't pull the grades for some MD schools.😛 But honestly, the average difference here is only frickin' 0.2, for freakin fricks sake anyways! And what, like 3 or 4 on the MCAT? Whoooop Peeeee!!

What would the opinion be if you had to have a 4.0 to get into a DO school? What has changed?

The DO approach was my first real exposure to medicine. I grew up around osteopathic medicine, as my mom(NP) worked for a DO. He was an inspirational physician, and a family friend. So, part of my decision to go DO was nostalgia. Part of it was a love of my idealisic perception of the stated philosophy. And part of it was the possibility to get back up after I stumbled.

I'll tell you what, though! I was ignorant of the whole DO vs MD thing,the allopathic bias, or the probable difficulty to land a competitive specialty until I joined these boards. That certain doors may be closed, or only opened with more effort than required as a DO concerns me. But I will get what I want!

It would be great if there was one degree that combined the best of what both schools have to offer. It would remove the pointless debate. When you are a minority, no matter how closely matched you are in reality to the majority; there is ego involved. Apes crave status. And fling feces!

 

[jkhamlin]

It would be great if there was one degree that combined the best of what both schools have to offer. It would remove the pointless debate. When you are a minority, no matter how closely matched you are in reality to the majority; there is ego involved. Apes crave status. And fling feces!

There is... It's called Osteopathic medical school. 👍

 

[Instatewaiter]

Regarding tolerance for an imperfect life: It seems in the MD world it is stumble or fall; you are out. If you are not a "traditional" student you are out. No quarter is given for second chances, or false starts.

Unless by traditional you mean good student I might have to disagree with you here. 😀 There are tons of older students in allo medical school, many of whom had to do post-bac programs or SMP programs just to make it in.They stumbled and got back up and proved they were good enough to get in. Plenty of second chances are given but you have to prove you belong there against a sea of very competitive applicants.

But honestly, the average difference here is only frickin' 0.2, for freakin fricks sake anyways! And what, like 3 or 4 on the MCAT? Whoooop Peeeee!!

Well... just to be difficult... In 2004 (newest data from AACOM) the average MCAT was 24.66 for DO and the average MCAT for MD was 29.9. That is a difference of about 5.25. Considering the standard deviation is ~2 that is a rather big difference.

So you say that over 2SDs is not a big deal, what does a difference of more than 2 standard deviations look like in terms of intelligence. Well 100 IQ (average) person is 'normal' and can do things expected of the average person. While the person more than 2 standard deviations away has an IQ of around 60-65. They are severely mentally ******ed and have major difficulties functioning.

 

[jkhamlin]

Well... just to be difficult... In 2004 (newest data from AACOM) the average MCAT was 24.66 for DO and the average MCAT for MD was 29.9. That is a difference of about 5.25. Considering the standard deviation is ~2 that is a rather big difference.

So you say that over 2SDs is not a big deal, what does a difference of more than 2 standard deviations look like in terms of intelligence. Well 100 IQ (average) person is 'normal' and can do things expected of the average person. While the person more than 2 standard deviations away has an IQ of around 60-65. They are severely mentally ******ed and have major difficulties functioning.

You cannot compare SD's with means. You are using mean MCAT scores and then supporting this severe overgeneralization with hypothetical single data points. In short, you are not comparing apples to apples. Standard deviation is also known as standard error. This means that the mean MCAT differences could be anywhere from 9.25 points apart to 1.25 apart (approximate confidence intervals since I don't have all the data). This really doesn't prove anything, just that the numbers aren't very reliable for a comparison.

Toothless Rufus's point was more along the lines that GPA and MCAT scores are great, but they are not what makes a good physician. The main reason both types of med schools have such high requirements is more of a market pressure situation in which the demand for seats is so much higher than supply that it drives up "price," or entrance stats.

And don't even try with the IQ stuff; you don't know what the hell you are talking about. 🙄

 

[myleghurts]

You cannot compare SD's with means. You are using mean MCAT scores and then supporting this severe overgeneralization with hypothetical single data points. In short, you are not comparing apples to apples. Standard deviation is also known as standard error. This means that the mean MCAT differences could be anywhere from 9.25 points apart to 1.25 apart (approximate confidence intervals since I don't have all the data). This really doesn't prove anything, just that the numbers aren't very reliable for a comparison.

Toothless Rufus's point was more along the lines that GPA and MCAT scores are great, but they are not what makes a good physician. The main reason both types of med schools have such high requirements is more of a market pressure situation in which the demand for seats is so much higher than supply that it drives up "price," or entrance stats.

And don't even try with the IQ stuff; you don't know what the hell you are talking about. 🙄

Stop being so defensive. It is common knowledge that the best applicants only apply MD. Everyone I know who is applying DO is only doing so because they would get rejected by MD schools mostly because of a low MCAT score and GPA.

 

[Taus]

thanks for stopping by myleg...always a pleasure

 

[J1515]

I really wish there was a way that premeds were only allowed to ask questions on this forum, and they'd have to be answered by an actual medical student. What you all don't realize is:

1. Once you people actually start medical school and get a few months in, nobody cares if you're a DO, MD, AH, FU, or JO.

2. A mere two months in and you'll be so busy and stressed out that you're not even going to remember what initials will be after your name at the end of those 4 years, and you certainly won't be worried about the opinions of a bunch of premeds on SDN.

Enjoy your free time in undergrad arguing MD vs DO.

 

[jkhamlin]

Stop being so defensive. It is common knowledge that the best applicants only apply MD. Everyone I know who is applying DO is only doing so because they would get rejected by MD schools mostly because of a low MCAT score and GPA.

Nice of you to troll on by. You haven't been banned yet?

 

[the alchemist]

Stop being so defensive. It is common knowledge that the best applicants only apply MD. Everyone I know who is applying DO is only doing so because they would get rejected by MD schools mostly because of a low MCAT score and GPA.

dude, i'd watch the blanket statements. i have a classmate w/ high GPA (3.9) and >30 MCAT from a good college who only applied DO. and my mcat is also higher than most MATRICULATED MD students though i did have a bad gpa from UG a decade ago and an almost perfect postbacc GPA at an ivy (but it didn't matter). i'd have 2 agree w/ nate that CERTAIN MD schools r not non-trad friendly though not all or even the majority. but i didn't find a problem w/ my older age at any of the DO schools i interviewed at (and i also interviewed MD). i'm not here 2 argue about myself but 2 show u that the best applicants do not only apply MD (and i wasn't talking about myself but my friend who could've gotten in2 a top MD program i'd bet). and not all DO students have a "low MCAT AND GPA"...most of my classmates actually have pretty high GPAs but had trouble w/ the MCAT. there r a couple of us w/ >30 MCATs and the opposite situation (lower GPA). its not a question of one being better than the other or getting better students 2 apply and in the future, they'll prob will b less difference b/t the DO and MD. come on, there's gotta b a reason why we have a PM&R MD is paying 2 study OMM at our school and taking an 8 hr roundtrip once a week (not working that day) 2 come 2 our class from NY (NYCOM won't let MDs take OMM apparently) and i know another PM&R MD who did her res at harvard planning on taking OMM here next yr. let's just stop w/ the mud slinging w/o facts (some of things said r true and some r generalized misconceptions) b/c in the end, it won't matter...the type of doctor u'll become comes from who u r and how well u know ur **** and DO and MD can both get u there either way...

 

[Andromeda]

Hmm I'm wondering if someone can actually describe how the DO diagnostic technique is inefficient--previously "suggested" by HumbleMD on this list. What is the evidence? HumbleMD, did you get this from a journal article? I'd be interested in reading it.

I've seen both MD and DO students study diagnostic techniques from the same books. Medicine IS Medicine! I'm pretty sure I've seen countless (yes, I lost count) MDs and DOs do the same diagnostic techniques in hospitals where I have shadowed. Hmm...Maybe the issue is semantics...

Did you mean to say that using OMM is inefficient? Well, sometimes understanding body structures--which can be taught very well at certain DO schools in OMM classes--can actually lead to more efficient diagnostic techniques and more efficient and less costly procedures. If you ever deign to serve the underserved, your resources will be limited. You might want to know how to feed a needle into a space and know where it is going without using the aid of radiographic dye (just an example). But of course, DOs are fully capable of using modern technology in the same way as MDs are. Medicine is medicine.

How can anyone say that a DO medical school is easier than an MD medical school? There are fantastic DO schools--and maybe not-so-fantastic DO schools--and there are fantastic MD schools--and maybe not-so-fantastic MD schools. Consider that there are some DO schools better than some MD schools, and that there are some MD schools better than DO schools. Maybe that statement is besides the point: In the end, you have to be a competent doctor **whether or not you are an MD or DO**. Medicine is medicine!

Ranting onward, there are terrible MDs out there--but at the same time, there are terrible DOs out there. If you want medical school (MD or DO) to be easy, then just don't study (it could be over soon--even easier). You'll be a terrible DO or a terrible MD. If you want to be a good doctor--DO or MD--you'll have to study, and medical school, simply, won't be easy. Medicine is medicine.

...in MY--humble--opinion.