DO schools no longer doing GPA replacement!

[ritts]

---

Members do not see this ad.

It's a shame that we're never really going to know the answer to how much impact this policy has. Median grades are going to stay the same since the vast majority are not significantly affected. We'd really need something like a DO MSAR to watch the 10th percentiles for GPA.

All were likely to get are a lot of angry posts in the Pre-Osteo forums from people with old failing marks that are disappointed with their cycle

Would love to see a DO MSAR

 

[Goro]

That's not how it works. A single year of 3.7+ GPA and an excellent MCAT score (513+) can and has gotten people into schools like BU, Case, Tulane, Drexel, one's state MD schools, and Albany, among others. A 3.9+ with significant hours in altruistic service, especially with patients, can and has gotten people into UCSF, Columbia, Duke and Vandy. I've seen this happen enough from SDNers that it says to me that this is more than merely winning the Lotto.

Obviously, this is a small n. But considering that ~10% of all the MS students who have gone through my own school's SMP have gotten into MD schools) and ~>50% DO hints to me that AACOMAS may have actually done people a favor, and force people into a pathway where they may be ending up matriculating into MD schools!

Time will tell how this shakes out. Also keep in mind that med schools that run SMPs are the back door into those med schools.

So now if you graduate college with a 2.0 GPA you would need almost 7 years(summer included) of A grades in science courses to raise the GPA to a 3.5 and then you would need to get a decent MCAT in order to be competitive for D.O

There are a lot of people who think that they can either bulldoze their way through their classes, OR think that they will make that Hail Mary pass on the final exam, OR are ignorant as to how damaging those F/D/C grades in Orgo are to their chances at med school. Do NOT underestimate the cluelessness of your typical 19-20 year old.


Yeah...I don't really understand how people can have so many terrible grades. I would take a few W's over a few F's/D's/C's any day.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

That's not how it works. A single year of 3.7+ GPA and an excellent MCAT score (513+) can and has gotten people into schools like BU, Case, Tulane, Drexel, one's state MD schools, and Albany, among others. A 3.9+ with significant hours in altruistic service, especially with patients, can and has gotten people into UCSF, Columbia, Duke and Vandy. I've seen this happen enough from SDNers that it says to me that this is more than merely winning the Lotto.

Obviously, this is a small n. But considering that ~10% of all the MS students who have gone through my own school's SMP have gotten into MD schools) and ~>50% DO hints to me that AACOMAS may have actually done people a favor, and force people into a pathway where they may be ending up matriculating into MD schools!

Time will tell how this shakes out. Also keep in mind that med schools that run SMPs are the back door into those med schools.





There are a lot of people who think that they can either bulldoze their way through their classes, OR think that they will make that Hail Mary pass on the final exam, OR are ignorant as to how damaging those F/D/C grades in Orgo are to their chances at med school. Do NOT underestimate the cluelessness of your typical 19-20 year old.


Yeah...I don't really understand how people can have so many terrible grades. I would take a few W's over a few F's/D's/C's any day.

Oh wow
I guess I am being way too neurotic and trying to gun too much.. Lol

 

[Goro]

Off the top of my head, Western, the Touros, PCOM, Nova, my school, and KCU have SMPs. All are run by the medical school, using med school Faculty.

I have heard that one school expanded its program, but on orders of its parent body, in order to rake more tuition dollars. At my school, we never heard a peep about the AACOMAS change, as it surely would have been discussed in our Adcom meetings. I may still be the only faculty member to know about it, because of my involvement in SDN.

I don't know much about SMP's but are there any DO schools that have SMP programs or are part of larger institutions that do have SMP programs?

If so, I'm curious if they expanded their SMP programs in the time they knew the grade policy change was eminent.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

There are a lot of people who think that they can either bulldoze their way through their classes, OR think that they will make that Hail Mary pass on the final exam, OR are ignorant as to how damaging those F/D/C grades in Orgo are to their chances at med school. Do NOT underestimate the cluelessness of your typical 19-20 year old.

I agree I started freshman year as a 16 year old(thought I knew everything) and have to say it was one hell of an adjustment..
Basically everyone was older than me and some had kids..
It was just weird and that probably hurt my grades. Plus I wasn't use to professors basically yapping for an hour and not covering anything meaningful. I used to be able to not even crack a textbook in HS and get an A..
I ended my 1st semester with a 3.5 🙁

tldr; I was a dumb****

 

[impervious0ne]

I agree I started freshman year as a 16 year old(thought I knew everything) and have to say it was one hell of an adjustment..
Basically everyone was older than me and some had kids..
It was just weird and that probably hurt my grades. Plus I wasn't use to professors basically yapping for an hour and not covering anything meaningful. I used to be able to not even crack a textbook in HS and get an A..
I ended my 1st semester with a 3.5 🙁

tldr; I was a dumb****

Is that a typo? 3.5 is a solid gpa.

 

[mwsapphire]

^ 3.5 is an excellent starting point, that's what I had freshman year. It's a really decent starting gpa because it can be raised to the 3.8 range and the upwards trend in grades would still be very favorable.

 

[JB50]

Discuss!

U serious bro? Bro are you for real? Seriously? Can't you read thread titles? Gosh man you just went down on my totem pole bro so far down I can't even smell you anymore.

 

[libertyyne]

U serious bro? Bro are you for real? Seriously? Can't you read thread titles? Gosh man you just went down on my totem pole bro so far down I can't even smell you anymore.

That's good because I haven't taken a shower in months. Also, I started this in pre allo.

 

[JB50]

That's good because I haven't taken a shower in a months. Also I started this in pre allo.

Lel

 

[Ho0v-man]

Weren't applicants who had to use significant grade replacement already considered inferior to those who didn't? I've seen several instances of this on SDN. I would imagine that's the case for everyone save the non trads who will probably still be given leniency for really old low grades.

Also, undergrad makes you take orientation. They literally test you on knowing to drop classes you're going to fail. I could see messing up your first semester and so can med school, but it's pretty dumb after that. I have no sympathy barring some crazy circumstances, but even then, schools will work with you. There's always outliers, but this probably won't significantly change most schools gpas. Overall, hasn't aacomas even said the impact is very small (0.01 or something).

The important take away should be that life isn't fair and that these schools and their governing bodies do not care about any of us. They care about money and not at all what is convenient for students. It's a dick move, but life sucks and then you die. Its best to figure it out now.

 

[libertyyne]

Weren't applicants who had to use significant grade replacement already considered inferior to those who didn't? I've seen several instances of this on SDN. I would imagine that's the case for everyone save the non trads who will probably still be given leniency for really old low grades.

Also, undergrad makes you take orientation. They literally test you on knowing to drop classes you're going to fail. I could see messing up your first semester and so can med school, but it's pretty dumb after that. I have no sympathy barring some crazy circumstances, but even then, schools will work with you. There's always outliers, but this probably won't significantly change most schools gpas. Overall, hasn't aacomas even said the impact is very small (0.01 or something).

The important take away should be that life isn't fair and that these schools and their governing bodies do not care about any of us. They care about money and not at all what is convenient for students. It's a dick move, but life sucks and then you die. Its best to figure it out now.

Depending on how the grade replacement was presented to adcoms they may have had a hard time doing the mental math in their heads to convert an F to an A and then average down. So these candidates were probably in good shape on paper. However I think the major problem now is making the automated cut-offs. That being said, MCAT still matters a lot.

I transferred from a CC to a 4 year, I didnt receive an orientation at the 4 year. Not that it matters or that I am complaining, just wanted to show it is possible to slip through the cracks. I dont have a single W on my transcript because I didnt even know it was an option.


I suspect the numbers will look lower then what aacomas is broadcasting, 2014 was 3.51 and 27~ mcat. The MCAT as always will make or break applications.

 

[tony101]

I understand that it's not fair. But again, this is the generation that believes actions do not have consequences and that Jim or Sally deserves to be what they want to be regardless of past history. That's not the way the real world works. And it's not like these students don't have any options: post-bacc, SMP, grad school, etc.

The easiest way was stolen, and that's why they are having a meltdown.

That statement just isn't true and it's beyond shocking that you are stating that since you claimed you majored in Sociology. The reason people are upset is because they were told you could do X, and then last second they said "Nah X won't work" without any warning. That isn't asking for a handout or not understanding consequences, thats saying that's a cruel and unfair thing to do. Can they do that? Of course, but you saying they want handouts or don't believe in consequences which is what your tone sounds like is beyond insulting.

Example(if you still don't understand): I'm assuming since you majored in sociology, you know med schools said they don't care what major you have as long as you have Pre-reqs correct? Imagine the quarter(or semester) before you finish your sociology major, they say "Actually we changed the policy, we now require a biology degree or a type of biology degree, psych/soc/anthro/etc. degrees will no longer qualify and you can't apply". Can they do that? Of course, but the point is you saying that is ridiculous and blind sighting you isn't asking for handouts or saying you don't understand consequences, it's being completely blind sighted and saying that you can't just go back 4 years and do it all over again. And most likely you can't afford another 2-3 years of school of a bio degree, they completely screwed you without a warning. And if I wanted to be a complete jerk, I could say "Nah, you sociology majors are just looking for the easy A's to boost your GPA, I'm glad you need a real major", would you be happy at the change and the ridiculous claims I am making? That's the issue here, and it isn't difficult to understand AND this is coming from someone who isn't using grade replacement. I mean it doesn't take a genius to understand why this is outrageous.

 

[McRibs]

I understand that it's not fair. But again, this is the generation that believes actions do not have consequences and that Jim or Sally deserves to be what they want to be regardless of past history. That's not the way the real world works. And it's not like these students don't have any options: post-bacc, SMP, grad school, etc.

The easiest way was stolen, and that's why they are having a meltdown.

You're absolutely correct that the easiest route is now closed. However, the absence of a warning rather than the policy change itself is the issue. I could have been chugging along post-bacc courses rather than revisiting older, poorer, and ultimately less relevant grades. Hind sight is 20/20, I suppose.

 

[kelminak]

That's not how it works. A single year of 3.7+ GPA and an excellent MCAT score (513+) can and has gotten people into schools like BU, Case, Tulane, Drexel, one's state MD schools, and Albany, among others. A 3.9+ with significant hours in altruistic service, especially with patients, can and has gotten people into UCSF, Columbia, Duke and Vandy. I've seen this happen enough from SDNers that it says to me that this is more than merely winning the Lotto.

Obviously, this is a small n. But considering that ~10% of all the MS students who have gone through my own school's SMP have gotten into MD schools) and ~>50% DO hints to me that AACOMAS may have actually done people a favor, and force people into a pathway where they may be ending up matriculating into MD schools!

Time will tell how this shakes out. Also keep in mind that med schools that run SMPs are the back door into those med schools.





There are a lot of people who think that they can either bulldoze their way through their classes, OR think that they will make that Hail Mary pass on the final exam, OR are ignorant as to how damaging those F/D/C grades in Orgo are to their chances at med school. Do NOT underestimate the cluelessness of your typical 19-20 year old.


Yeah...I don't really understand how people can have so many terrible grades. I would take a few W's over a few F's/D's/C's any day.

After the AACOMAS changes my GPA tanked from a 3.0 to a 2.4, but I have had one C (that I redid for a B+ in Ochem II) since 2014 and was planning on applying to DO schools this summer pre-change. Do you think DO post-baccs with linkage will still consider me if I apply to these post baccs now? I have a 28 MCAT (7/12/9) and 400 hours of hospital volunteering as well.

 

[Goro]

Yes. My program would take you.

After the AACOMAS changes my GPA tanked from a 3.0 to a 2.4, but I have had one C (that I redid for a B+ in Ochem II) since 2014 and was planning on applying to DO schools this summer pre-change. Do you think DO post-baccs with linkage will still consider me if I apply to these post baccs now? I have a 28 MCAT (7/12/9) and 400 hours of hospital volunteering as well.

 

[BarrelRoll]

Yes. My program would take you.

From what I see on their information pages on their websites, Post-Baccs and SMP's still take retakes, correct? So your C in undergrad when applying for SMP gets replaced with whatever it was when you retook it? Since they're not using AACOMAS because the program you are applying for is technically a Master's program.

 

[Goro]

THAT, I have no idea!!

From what I see on their information pages on their websites, Post-Baccs and SMP's still take retakes, correct? So your C in undergrad when applying for SMP gets replaced with whatever it was when you retook it? Since they're not using AACOMAS because the program you are applying for is technically a Master's program.

 

[kelminak]

Yes. My program would take you.

Thank you, that's the most encouraging thing I've heard in this whole ordeal. I appreciate it.

 

[BarrelRoll]

THAT, I have no idea!!

Sigh, nevermind. I was going off an outdated Q&A from students currently in Western's SMP. But like you said, there are so many and relocation is fortunately an option for me. Not done yet!!!!

 

[MyGrainAura]

The fact that AACOMAS and AMCAS now use identical GPA calculation, along with the merging residences, has been leading to a lot of speculation about a LCME/COCA merger, as well as about DO becoming much more commonly present on applications for MD borderline applicants. DO has also become much less viable as a route for people with many early fail grades due to the mathematics of replacement vs average (F --> A with one course, vs F --> B with three courses).

is it identical though? It's my understanding that AMCAS includes math in the sGPA. Conversely, AACOMAS considered some subjects in sGPA that AMCAS did not.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[efle]

is it identical though? It's my understanding that AMCAS includes math in the sGPA. Conversely, AACOMAS considered some subjects in sGPA that AMCAS did not.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

True, cGPA is now identical but sGPA still has different courses qualifying for inclusion.

We'll see how long that difference remains !