DO seems way more competitive

[puppyofthesea]

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It used to be that if you had above a 3.0 and a 25 MCAT a decent school would accept you. Now it feels like you would only get into the worst (or newest) DO schools with those stats unless you had something special.

I have a 3.25 sGPA, 3.26 overall and a 27 MCAT but I don't think I'll get an interview at my dream schools (DMU, NOVA, UNE). I think this is one reason new school openings are a good thing. It allows people like me to get a chance. Without new schools, theDO schools would become nearly as competitive as MD schools.

*edited to remove identifying information*

 

[Gandyy]

stat wise it has gotten more brutal, but a 27 mcat is average for matriculants so i wouldnt sweat it. You should get in somewhere.

 

[FutureD0C17]

How would they become as competitive as MD schools when DO typically costs more money, the residency options pale in comparison, and the fact that its actually a tougher road considering OMM plus the extra exams? Obviously it can't and won't. Not to mention all those who need the "MD" after their names.

It has gotten more competitive the past few cycles, but this is it IMO - we're seeing DO just about maxed out on the competitiveness scale given the facts above and the combination of an uncertain future of healthcare and the very uncertain outcome of the merger. The merger actually has me very concerned about the future of DO's.

 

[mathnerd88]

How would they become as competitive as MD schools when DO typically costs more money, the residency options pale in comparison, and the fact that its actually a tougher road considering OMM plus the extra exams? Obviously it can't and won't. Not to mention all those who need the "MD" after their names.

It has gotten more competitive the past few cycles, but this is it IMO - we're seeing DO just about maxed out on the competitiveness scale given the facts above and the combination of an uncertain future of healthcare and the very uncertain outcome of the merger. The merger actually has me very concerned about the future of DO's.

That is not true. The future of healthcare is leaning towards primary care and preventative medicine. If anything, we need more physicians in those areas.

What are the "facts" above? Please clarify.

Tougher road? How is it tougher road? Please explain. DO's take one extra class OMM and take a totally different certification exam than USMLE.

 

[IslandStyle808]

The thing is.... DO schools are as competitive as MD schools (2.5 applicants to 1 seat). The difference is the pool of applicants applying to DO schools (lower stats as a whole). With the recession lifting, increasing tuition, and mid-level pathways becoming more prevalent, there will be a point where medical school won't be worth it from a financial perspective.

 

[mathnerd88]

The thing is.... DO schools are as competitive are MD schools (2.5 applicants to 1 seat). The difference is the pool of applicants applying to DO schools (lower stats as a whole). With the recession lifting, increasing tuition, and mid-level pathways becoming more prevalent, there will be a point where medical school won't be worth it from a financial perspective.

It has never been worth it from a financial perspective. Many students have wealthy families who are able to pay their medical school education. It would be better graduating from college and start working than going to medical school and residency with low pay and high amount of debt.

That's why if you really want to be a physician, you have to really want it and not mind the debt.

 

[user3]

If it weren't for the bottom 1/3 of DO schools (stat-wise), I think the floor to get in would be much higher than the 3.0/26 I currently estimate.

Since new schools open or schools expand class sizes pretty much every year, this "floor" has been difficult to raise.

 

[IslandStyle808]

It has never been worth it from a financial perspective. Many students have wealthy families who are able to pay their medical school education.

If I recall correctly, the vast majority of medical students take out loans and you would have to be from a rather rich family to have them pay for medical school. When you compare it to some other fields, it is still okay. There are definitely other fields worse off than medicine.

 

[mathnerd88]

If I recall correctly, the vast majority of medical students take out loans and you would have to be from a rather rich family to have them pay for medical school. When you compare it to some other fields, it is still okay. There are definitely other fields worse off than medicine.

There are definitely worse fields than medicine. The problem is Obamacare and what it is trying to do. It will start cutting some salaries for physicians. It won't be as profitable as it used to be in the 90's and 2000's for new physicians.

 

[FutureD0C17]

That is not true. The future of healthcare is leaning towards primary care and preventative medicine. If anything, we need more physicians in those areas.

What are the "facts" above? Please clarify.

Tougher road? How is it tougher road? Please explain. DO's take one extra class OMM and take a totally different certification exam than USMLE.

What are you questioning? I don't understand how you can even weigh in on this subject if you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[mathnerd88]

What are you questioning? I don't understand how you can even weigh in on this subject if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Please explain what you are saying previously. I don't quite understand why you are concerned about the field of DO's?

How are you able to conclude the stats for DO's are maxed out? Why does the merger concern you?

 

[studentdocftw]

I think much of the increased competition is due to the increased competition for medical school overall. Now many students dual apply for MD/DO. Some of the "top" DO schools have MCAT averages of 30 now...unheard of 3 years ago.

 

[IslandStyle808]

There are definitely worse fields than medicine. The problem is Obamacare and what it is trying to do. It will start cutting some salaries for physicians. It won't be as profitable as it used to be in the 90's and 2000's for new physicians.

What I meant by my statement is that it is 'currently' okay and there will be a point where it is not worth it. I definitely agree that Obamacare is making it worse for physicians.

 

[user3]

I think much of the increased competition is due to the increased competition for medical school overall. Now many students dual apply for MD/DO. Some of the "top" DO schools have MCAT averages of 30 now...unheard of 3 years ago.

ONE school is at 30. that is it.

 

[studentdocftw]

TUCOM CA AND NY = 30, CCOM = 29.5, AZCOM = 29 DMU = 28 NSU = 28 KCUMB = 27.6

Thought there was 3, but 2 is still up from previous years. CCOM and AZCOM will probably be there next cycle. Safe to say, as the applicant pool increases, so will average MCAT scores.

 

[Goro]

I think that if you apply broadly that you'll do fine.

Your stats are competitive CCOM and the rest of the higher stat schools.

To increase your chances, get a DO LOR, shadow a DO, and if possible see OMT in action.

If you live within driving distance of a DO school, go visit them and chat up the DO faculty. My own DO colleagues love it when people do this.


But you're right in that it is more competitive. My school gets ~5000 apps for 100 seats. That's a 2% acceptance rate, the same as Harvard! We'll probably break 5500 this year.


I have a 3.25 sGPA, 3.26 overall and a 27 MCAT but I don't think I'll get an interview at my dream schools (DMU, NOVA, UNE). I think this is one reason new school openings are a good thing. It allows people like me to get a chance. Without new schools, theDO schools would become nearly as competitive as MD schools.


This is not true, based upon AACOMAS data my Dean has shown us for each of the past several years.
Since new schools open or schools expand class sizes pretty much every year, this "floor" has been difficult to raise.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

TUCOM CA AND NY = 30, CCOM = 29.5, AZCOM = 29 DMU = 28 NSU = 28 KCUMB = 27.6

Thought there was 3, but 2 is still up from previous years. CCOM and AZCOM will probably be there next cycle. Safe to say, as the applicant pool increases, so will average MCAT scores.

I think we should take a moment and realize that all this does is raise the bar for what it takes to get into medical school. It doesn't make a medical school better than any other, it doesn't make one physician who graduates from one program better than another either. Raising standards does not mean that these schools are becoming better (this would invoke the argument of perception is reality, which although for most intents and purposes is true...it is not what we are discussing here), it just means that the applicant pool is continuing to grow- and adcoms must use some tangible, measurable quantity to pick one applicant over the rest.

 

[studentdocftw]

That's what I was going for. I love to see increased competiton across the board..(even though I am a pre medical student)..as it implies more stringent requirements and expectations..ideally leading to better physicians.

 

[AwayFromReality]

Your stats are competitive CCOM and the rest of the higher stat schools.

From looking at @user3's stats on average GPAs and from my own research (last year's school specific thread) I noticed that CCOM and other higher stat schools tend to accepts those with cGPA and sGPA close to 3.6 or 3.5. My stats are pretty close to OP's (except for cGPA which is 3.45) and CCOM is one of my top choices. I had almost written off that school thinking I won't be competitive.

Your comment seems to say otherwise (and obviously your comments hold a lot of weight). Did I go wrong somewhere during my research on these higher stat schools?

 

[68PGunner]

That's what I was going for. I love to see increased competiton across the board..(even though I am a pre medical student)..as it implies more stringent requirements and expectations..ideally leading to better physicians.

Hm... I have an issue with this statement. In your belief, what kind of qualifications would make a better physician? I dont think these intangibles are measurable by gpa and mcat.

 

[studentdocftw]

Notice I said "ideally"...given 2 people..with equal intangibles...wouldn't you agree the better physician would have a better academic record? I'm in no way implying a "good" physician should always have a stellar undergrad GPA/MCAT. But if prospective physicians have both, why not celebrate it.

 

[user3]

TUCOM CA AND NY = 30, CCOM = 29.5, AZCOM = 29 DMU = 28 NSU = 28 KCUMB = 27.6

Thought there was 3, but 2 is still up from previous years. CCOM and AZCOM will probably be there next cycle. Safe to say, as the applicant pool increases, so will average MCAT scores.

CCOM's site says its rounded-off average is 29. There is no data for Touro NY.

I love when schools brag about how competitive they are, yet stop short of imposing reasonable MCAT cutoffs (like, 27) for the admission. There is little reason for Touro CA, CCOM, AZCOM to not make a cutoff of 27.

 

[studentdocftw]

Which schools have cut offs for MCAT scores? Obviously there is a "cutoff", but nothing concrete. I'd imagine most students are +/- 2 from the stated average..so why make a cutoff at 27 when your average is 29...that's potentially 25% of your matriculants.

 

[feeling-dizzy]

CCOM's site says its rounded-off average is 29. There is no data for Touro NY.

I love when schools brag about how competitive they are, yet stop short of imposing reasonable MCAT cutoffs (like, 27) for the admission. There is little reason for Touro CA, CCOM, AZCOM to not make a cutoff of 27.

TUCOM, Western Pomona and AZCOM are especially competitive; that's true without a doubt. Their MCAT average should be >=30 this year (for comparision Arkansas MD program is at 29-30 MCAT average) . You can guess the reason why. It is really suck to live in CA and apply for med school

 

[studentdocftw]

Why implement a hard MCAT cutoff (besides EDPs). Having a cutoff would be disadvantageous...i.e. not considering a 26/3.8 but looking at a 28/3.2. Just wouldn't make sense for the cutoff to be so close to the average. 5 points below...maybe? But even then, you never know the story of the applicant, and I don't think a number should prevent one from even being considered.

 

[user3]

Which schools have cut offs for MCAT scores? Obviously there is a "cutoff", but nothing concrete. I'd imagine most students are +/- 2 from the stated average..so why make a cutoff at 27 when your average is 29...that's potentially 25% of your matriculants.

Touro-NV rejects anyone 24 or below, their average is 28.

Even if those schools rejected everyone with 26's or less, there would still be more than enough people to fill their classes.

 

[studentdocftw]

TUCOM, Western Pomona and AZCOM are especially competitive; that's true without a doubt. Their MCAT average should be >=30 this year (for comparision Arkansas MD program is at 29-30 MCAT average) . You can guess the reason why. It is really suck to live in CA and apply for med school

I know right? Such a dilemma...they say life isn't fair..yeah..even medical school admissions isn't fair. haha...sucks to live in CA, rocks to live in TX

 

[studentdocftw]

Touro-NV rejects anyone 24 or below, their average is 28.

Even if those schools rejected everyone with 26's or less, there would still be more than enough people to fill their classes.

That maybe true...but I'd refer you to my previous comment about not knowing the story of the applicant. Why interview a student with a 28/3.5..who hasn't worked for a paycheck...with subpar ECs....but completely ignore a 26/3.7 student who worked 3 jobs to pay for undergraduate education...and has extensive research in undergrad. Cutoffs IMO aren't the way to go...and when they exist..they are generally so low (for applicants that should probably consider a different career path).

 

[user3]

Why implement a hard MCAT cutoff (besides EDPs). Having a cutoff would be disadvantageous...i.e. not considering a 26/3.8 but looking at a 28/3.2. Just wouldn't make sense for the cutoff to be so close to the average. 5 points below...maybe? But even then, you never know the story of the applicant, and I don't think a number should prevent one from even being considered.

yes, schools should consider the rest of the application...to a point. Minimum academic requirements are needed at some level, and I think 27 is a very reasonable minimum score for a school like those to require.

No offense to anyone reading this, but in all seriousness, 26 is a bad score. Not OK, not marginal, bad. Don't settle for it if you are unsatisfied and know you can do better.

 

[studentdocftw]

Great/Good/Bad...all modifiers that are RELATIVE. A 28 is a BAD score for Oregon Health & Science U....but perfectly acceptable at Mercer U or Morehouse. A 32 is a BAD score for Cornell...but perfectly acceptable at Georgetown...a 34 is a BAD score for Harvard...but perfectly acceptable at Mayo. Every school has its target med applicants...and while a 26 isn't a good score for most schools..there are some that are willing to take 26's (both MD and DO). And if at the end of the day, the student passes the necessary medical licensing exam (cause that's what the MCAT is for right? predicting board exam success?), then all is lost in these MCAT numbers.

 

[user3]

.

 

[studentdocftw]

Found it...so for 30-32..around 96% pass rate..27-29 93% pass rate..and 24-26...86% pass rate.

 

[Cardboard101]

I don't know about Touro - NY but Touro - California has a MCAT average of 30.1
First to break 30 I believe which shows a consistent upward trend.
I have yet to find one DO school whose stats have gone down when you compare 5-10 years ago with last years entering class.

 

[IslandStyle808]

yes, schools should consider the rest of the application...to a point. Minimum academic requirements are needed at some level, and I think 27 is a very reasonable minimum score for a school like those to require.

No offense to anyone reading this, but in all seriousness, 26 is a bad score. Not OK, not marginal, bad. Don't settle for it if you know you can do better.

..... have you seen the light?

Not offensive but perplexing. Why tell people to apply early and broadly with 3.2/24 MCAT, when you should be telling them this?

 

[user3]

Dropping..but to what extent? 95 vs 90? Could you link me...I lost that resource and I'm actually curious.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

step 1 pass rate and 4 yr graduation rates start dropping below 27 (at least for MD schools).

..... have you seen the light?

Not offensive but perplexing. Why tell people to apply early and broadly with 3.2/24 MCAT, when you should be telling them this?

"bad" doesn't mean "can't get in". When people ask for their chances I assume that they are satisfied with their performance.

 

[studentdocftw]

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

step 1 pass rate and 4 yr graduation rates start dropping below 27 (at least for MD schools).


"bad" doesn't mean "can't get in". When people ask for their chances I assume that they are satisfied with their performance.

So a drop from 93% t0 86%..a significant drop..but doesn't necessitate a cutoff IMO. Also, were you surprised at the 84 who attempted the exam with a MCAT of 15-17 :O.. the majority still passed LOL

 

[IslandStyle808]

"bad" doesn't mean "can't get in". When people ask for their chances I assume that they are satisfied with their performance.

There are just those people who are satisfied with the bare minimum, when they can do better. I think it is fair to tell them what their chances are. I think it is better to tell them to wait and apply with a more reasonable MCAT and GPA, if they have not put in the maximum effort that is. I don't think some of these people do.

 

[nRomaleos]

What are you questioning? I don't understand how you can even weigh in on this subject if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Do you do anything else on this forum except scaring people who go DO?

 

[Dr. Death]

Do you do anything else on this forum except scaring people who go DO?

No! He or she also hijacks threads with answers that have absolutely nothing to do with the OP question!

How would they become as competitive as MD schools when DO typically costs more money, the residency options pale in comparison, and the fact that its actually a tougher road considering OMM plus the extra exams? Obviously it can't and won't. Not to mention all those who need the "MD" after their names.

 

[Goro]

You limit the applicant pool if you do that....and rule out some very good students who are ESL and have VR scores that hurt but have a Bio10 (the one we like) and are worth taking a chance on. Even VR5/PS10/Bio10 students do quite well in our own program. The VR section is quite perverse. We'd be losing out on URM candidates as well.

But user3's comments are close enough and that's why I advise people with < 27 to not apply to these schools.

CCOM's site says its rounded-off average is 29. There is no data for Touro NY.

I love when schools brag about how competitive they are, yet stop short of imposing reasonable MCAT cutoffs (like, 27) for the admission. There is little reason for Touro CA, CCOM, AZCOM to not make a cutoff of 27.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

There are definitely worse fields than medicine. The problem is Obamacare and what it is trying to do. It will start cutting some salaries for physicians. It won't be as profitable as it used to be in the 90's and 2000's for new physicians.

It is much harder for most people to make as much money as you can as a physician. Most degrees outside of law or business I feel don't do much for you. People get a degree in say, for example, sociology, and then never use that degree again. I think for people to land a job making over 150k a year, it takes years of experience, knowing the right people, hard work, and luck.

I know that if I go to medical school, bust my a**, and graduate, will be financially secure. I think that's pretty cool and it makes me feel like it was the right choice. Sure, docs don't make as much as they used to, but it's still better than most other options.

Also, some say that it takes so long and that you don't start making money till after residency. However, even in residency docs bring in more money than the average salary in the U.S. (And double what I make right now putting my neuroscience degree to work).

 

[AwayFromReality]

It is much harder for most people to make as much money as you can as a physician. Most degrees outside of law or business I feel don't do much for you. People get a degree in say, for example, sociology, and then never use that degree again. I think for people to land a job making over 150k a year, it takes years of experience, knowing the right people, hard work, and luck.

I know that if I go to medical school, bust my a**, and graduate, will be financially secure. I think that's pretty cool and it makes me feel like it was the right choice. Sure, docs don't make as much as they used to, but it's still better than most other options.

Also, some say that it takes so long and that you don't start making money till after residency. However, even in residency docs bring in more money than the average salary in the U.S. (And double what I make right now putting my neuroscience degree to work).

Yes but you will have 200K-300K in student loans plus interest (unless you get a scholarship or you're rich and pay out of pocket). So the money you make in residency will go to the loans. You can defer the loans but interest will keep accumulating. Then there is the cost of raising a family (if you decide to have one). It will take a long time after med school before you can live a comfortable life financially. That's why choosing a career as a physician for the money is not really that viable, at least in my opinion.

As for other degrees, I feel engineering is one that has the path of least resistance in terms of high salary right out of undergrad. In a few years, with lots of experience, one can live pretty comfortably.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

U

Yes but you will have 200K-300K in student loans plus interest (unless you get a scholarship or you're rich and pay out of pocket). So the money you make in residency will go to the loans. You can defer the loans but interest will keep accumulating. Then there is the cost of raising a family (if you decide to have one). It will take a long time after med school before you can live a comfortable life financially. That's why choosing a career as a physician for the money is not really that viable, at least in my opinion.

As for other degrees, I feel engineering is one that has the path of least resistance in terms of high salary right out of undergrad. In a few years, with lots of experience, one can live pretty comfortably.

Yes, this is true.

I guess it's a little different for someone who has a spouse that is helping so that at least living loans don't have to be taken out.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

Yes but you will have 200K-300K in student loans plus interest (unless you get a scholarship or you're rich and pay out of pocket). So the money you make in residency will go to the loans. You can defer the loans but interest will keep accumulating. Then there is the cost of raising a family (if you decide to have one). It will take a long time after med school before you can live a comfortable life financially. That's why choosing a career as a physician for the money is not really that viable, at least in my opinion.

As for other degrees, I feel engineering is one that has the path of least resistance in terms of high salary right out of undergrad. In a few years, with lots of experience, one can live pretty comfortably.

It's just delayed gratification. The average physician salary alone is in the top ~5% of salaries of entire households in the United States (Maybe minus peds salaries). Even considering 200k of loans paid off over ten years on a 10% salary repayment plan. The biggest opportunity cost isn't the financial aspect most people think it is in my opinion, it's the 12-16 years put in when you watch your friends graduate in 4 and start their lives. But that's just my opinion, I think the time put in sacrifices more than the money put in, others may disagree and value financial aspects more.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

It's just delayed gratification. The average physician salary alone is in the top ~5% of salaries of entire households in the United States (Maybe minus peds salaries). Even considering 200k of loans paid off over ten years on a 10% salary repayment plan. The biggest opportunity cost isn't the financial aspect most people think it is in my opinion, it's the 12-16 years put in when you watch your friends graduate in 4 and start their lives. But that's just my opinion, I think the time put in sacrifices more than the money put in, others may disagree and value financial aspects more.

True. 2 points I wanna make here: (monetary)

1. Yes, you are sacrificing time. However, what would you be doing if you weren't going to school that you can't do now. Working? Your trading working at a job that most likely doesn't pay nearly as much as a physician and never will to school/residency/bettering yourself and others and building a knowledge base that will lead to a long and prosperous career. Yes, there are those people that do come out of college or high school and land jobs with huge salaries, but it's far and in between.

2. On the point of watching your friends graduate and start their lives. True. I have seen this first hand. I started college late and am going to be starting med school at 27. All my friends are graduated from college and have their careers and are having babies. However, according to nearly every physician and article I have read, it's completely doable to start a family in medical school and during residency. Hard yeah, but doable.

It would seem that we would be behind most of my peers financially as well, but honestly, with Facebook nowadays it's easy to be connected with friends and not one of the people I have graduated with has "hit it large" and have a stellar career where they are making awesome money. I know this is strictly monetary but I think the time part speaks for itself. Once we are docs and making full salaries, we will be beyond our peers who went straight into the workforce (except for the few outliers).

 

[tom10]

Yes but you will have 200K-300K in student loans plus interest (unless you get a scholarship or you're rich and pay out of pocket). So the money you make in residency will go to the loans. You can defer the loans but interest will keep accumulating. Then there is the cost of raising a family (if you decide to have one). It will take a long time after med school before you can live a comfortable life financially. That's why choosing a career as a physician for the money is not really that viable, at least in my opinion.

As for other degrees, I feel engineering is one that has the path of least resistance in terms of high salary right out of undergrad. In a few years, with lots of experience, one can live pretty comfortably.

Much of this is not true if you don't want it to be. I currently owe $330k, just graduated from KCUMB. I matched into IM with a salary of $51.6k a year. I will only have to pay about $270 a month on loans (this is the lowest I can pay other than just paying nothing). You actually don't have to pay at all like you said, but I think there might be a one year limit on that, not sure. Not going to do it so I blew it off. After residency, I expect to owe about $440k. In some places in the midwest, you can make about $300k as a hospitalist working 18 days a month, about $210k after taxes. Less than half of these are 12 hours shifts at my third and fourth year training site. Use $130k of that to pay off your loans and the loans are paid off in a few years and you're still taking home 80k a year. 80k a year is not exactly rough living! You can pay more or less if you want obviously, but the bottom line is, you don't have to live like a bum in residency in the few years right after residency.

If you wish to live in a desirable area or are in a lower income specialty like FM or peds, you may not be living a lavish life, but if you can take home 50k in an average city or suburb, life isnt exactly awful.

 

[mathnerd88]

It is much harder for most people to make as much money as you can as a physician. Most degrees outside of law or business I feel don't do much for you. People get a degree in say, for example, sociology, and then never use that degree again. I think for people to land a job making over 150k a year, it takes years of experience, knowing the right people, hard work, and luck.

I know that if I go to medical school, bust my a**, and graduate, will be financially secure. I think that's pretty cool and it makes me feel like it was the right choice. Sure, docs don't make as much as they used to, but it's still better than most other options.

Also, some say that it takes so long and that you don't start making money till after residency. However, even in residency docs bring in more money than the average salary in the U.S. (And double what I make right now putting my neuroscience degree to work).

Let's put it this way. Consultants straight out of college already make at least $80k a year, not even with signing bonuses. By the time doctors are out of residency, consultants already have made $640k ahead of you AND don't have loans. (That's also assuming their pay never increases, but it does per year.) Adding your student loans and interest, you are about almost a million dollars behind.

By the time you become a doctor, consultants already make almost the same pay as you. I believe people have the completely WRONG idea about how much doctors actually make. Back in the 90's and early 2000's doctors made WAY more. With the healthcare system changing, it won't be as lavish anymore.

Being a doctor DOES NOT give you as much money as you think. My sister is an attending as an anesthesiologist is still making not as much. Guess how much doctors make as a resident? Only $50-60k a year. Want to buy a house? You're going to have to wait until you're almost 40.

If you want to be a doctor for the money, you're out of your mind. Marry someone with a nice job to also help you.

 

[tom10]

Let's put it this way. Consultants straight out of college already make at least $80k a year, not even with signing bonuses. By the time doctors are out of residency, consultants already have made $640k ahead of you AND don't have loans. (That's also assuming their pay never increases, but it does per year.) Adding your student loans and interest, you are about almost a million dollars behind.

By the time you become a doctor, consultants already make almost the same pay as you. I believe people have the completely WRONG idea about how much doctors actually make. Back in the 90's and early 2000's doctors made WAY more. With the healthcare system changing, it won't be as lavish anymore.

Being a doctor DOES NOT give you as much money as you think. My sister is an attending as an anesthesiologist is still making not as much. Guess how much doctors make as a resident? Only $50-60k a year. Want to buy a house? You're going to have to wait until you're almost 40.

If you want to be a doctor for the money, you're out of your mind. Marry someone with a nice job to also help you.

Please see my previous post. I don't know a single person making 80k out of college in any field other than biomedical engineering and that is just one guy. Anesthesia can easily make $400k as an attending first year out and that isn't even working hard. ER can make 500k with 15 shifts a month. The whole doctors not making much money this is really garbage unless you're doing academia and even then, you're not exactly roughing it.

I also know plenty of people buying a home right out of medical school. Yes, medical school, not residency. Loans are easy to get when you're a physician. "$330k in the hole and you want a loan? Ha! You're nuts!....Oh, you just graduated medical school? Here's $250k no questions asked."

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Much of this is not true if you don't want it to be. I currently owe $330k, just graduated from KCUMB. I matched into IM with a salary of $51.6k a year. I will only have to pay about $270 a month on loans (this is the lowest I can pay other than just paying nothing). You actually don't have to pay at all like you said, but I think there might be a one year limit on that, not sure. Not going to do it so I blew it off. After residency, I expect to owe about $440k. In some places in the midwest, you can make about $300k as a hospitalist working 18 days a month, about $210k after taxes. Less than half of these are 12 hours shifts at my third and fourth year training site. Use $130k of that to pay off your loans and the loans are paid off in a few years and you're still taking home 80k a year. 80k a year is not exactly rough living! You can pay more or less if you want obviously, but the bottom line is, you don't have to live like a bum in residency in the few years right after residency.

If you wish to live in a desirable area or are in a lower income specialty like FM or peds, you may not be living a lavish life, but if you can take home 50k in an average city or suburb, life isnt exactly awful.

You can always do the IBR/PAYE thing. Depending on your debt and expected annual income, you may end up saving money in the long run.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Let's put it this way. Consultants straight out of college already make at least $80k a year, not even with signing bonuses. By the time doctors are out of residency, consultants already have made $640k ahead of you AND don't have loans. (That's also assuming their pay never increases, but it does per year.) Adding your student loans and interest, you are about almost a million dollars behind.

By the time you become a doctor, consultants already make almost the same pay as you. I believe people have the completely WRONG idea about how much doctors actually make. Back in the 90's and early 2000's doctors made WAY more. With the healthcare system changing, it won't be as lavish anymore.

Being a doctor DOES NOT give you as much money as you think. My sister is an attending as an anesthesiologist is still making not as much. Guess how much doctors make as a resident? Only $50-60k a year. Want to buy a house? You're going to have to wait until you're almost 40.

If you want to be a doctor for the money, you're out of your mind. Marry someone with a nice job to also help you.

Right, but you are quoting the select few I mentioned. Like I said, I agree that there are other fields that make more money. However, being a physician is going to put you in the top percent of salaries. Like I said, I know many people that went to UCLA with me and graduated with business and law degrees, none of which are breaking 80k a year.

We can sit here and mention other fields and say, well you can be a consultant and make x amount of money, which is true. But you can also be a inventor and become a bazillionaire. There are always other fields that will make more money, but once you graduate medical school, you can bank on the fact that you won't be living In a box and you will be making more than 99% of your friends.