Do Student Failing Usmle Step 1

[doc0875]

I took & passed USMLE step I but not parts II or III. I later found that it is a non-issue 95% of the time. Programs just don't really seem to care, & if they do I'd say it is not going to be a "D.O. friendly" place to train anyways. BTW, the USMLE step I was much harder than COMPLEX I. I scored 80th percentile on Comlex I but was substantially below the mean on USMLE I.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I too once thought that you needed to take the USMLE to be competative at allopathic residencies.... alas this is not the truth....the days of being locked out of allopathic residencies because you haven't taken the USMLE are fading into the sunset.... A friend of mine took only his COMLEX and is currently doing his ER residency at one of the largest LEVEL 1 trauma centers in Michigan. My Mentor, also a DO did his residency at the same facility, advised me that all you need is your COMLEX and that you should re-think doing your residency at any facility that wanted you to take the USMLE as they probably wouldn't treat you like an equal in the end. So to clear up the misconceptions....YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE USMLE....if you are concerned, contact the facility that you are interested in and confirm with them.

This is claptrap and drivel. Take it from Vince and me and others who have been through the process rather that a clueless MS1. Take the USMLE if you want the best shot at a competitive residency. I know for a fact that it definitely helped me get a number of interviews at good places and ultimately match at a great one.

 

[kota315]

This is claptrap and drivel. Take it from Vince and me and others who have been through the process rather that a clueless MS1. Take the USMLE if you want the best shot at a competitive residency. I know for a fact that it definitely helped me get a number of interviews at good places and ultimately match at a great one.

Oooh, I am sorry I didn't get your permission....Your cheap comment is only demonstrative of your poor attitude and young age....I give only the facts, based on personal experience.... YOU DO NOT NEED TO TAKE THE USMLE TO GET A COMPETATIVE RESIDENCY!!! if you feel you needed the USMLE to get in, then perhaps you couldn't do it on your own merrits.... I just hope that your not the rude punk that I have to see when I go to the hospital....


BIATCH

 

[DrMom]

This is claptrap and drivel. Take it from Vince and me and others who have been through the process rather that a clueless MS1. Take the USMLE if you want the best shot at a competitive residency. I know for a fact that it definitely helped me get a number of interviews at good places and ultimately match at a great one.

Taking the USMLE most definitely is to your advantage in applying to MD programs and is essential for even moderately-competitive MD progams.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Oooh, I am sorry I didn't get your permission....Your cheap comment is only demonstrative of your poor attitude and young age....I give only the facts.... YOU DO NOT NEED TO TAKE THE USMLE TO GET A COMPETATIVE RESIDENCY!!! if you feel you needed the USMLE to get in, then perhaps you couldn't do it on your own merrits.... I just hope that your not the rude punk that I have to see when I go to the hospital....


BIATCH

LOL, this post is too funny coming from an MS1. The "facts" are that taking the USMLE isn't needed to help get a competitive allopathic residency. That's really amazing especially since the program directors at Penn and Johns Hopkins (among others) told me it was the wisest thing I could do to help my application. So did the department chair at my program - and he is one of the most well connected and well-known figures in Anesthesiology. As far as getting in on my own merits, you obviously are so naive as to the residency process that I can't even begin to respond to it. Oh and by the way I was over 30 when I started med school. Best wishes.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Oooh, I am sorry I didn't get your permission....Your cheap comment is only demonstrative of your poor attitude and young age....I give only the facts.... YOU DO NOT NEED TO TAKE THE USMLE TO GET A COMPETATIVE RESIDENCY!!! if you feel you needed the USMLE to get in, then perhaps you couldn't do it on your own merrits.... I just hope that your not the rude punk that I have to see when I go to the hospital....


BIATCH

Do some research, buddy. You've got a long way to go before you enter reality.

 

[Plinko]

I recently did a fourth year elective in surgery. My resident had strong opinions on this issue. He said he was president of the surgery club, top ten percent of his class, and 80th percentile on the COMLEX Step 1. He did not take the USMLE Step 1 or 2. He applied only ACGME--60 programs. He got ten interviews. He didn't get in anywhere and had to scramble into a AOA spot. He claimed he got at least thirty responses from the fifty programs that denied him an interview that stated that the main reason for them not interviewing him was him not having a USMLE transcript. At several of the ten interviews he went on, he was told that his COMLEX results were difficult for the PD to interpret in comparison the MD applicants. He strongly recommended that I take the USMLE. This is just one person's story but I think it is relevant to thread. I do think that whether or not to take the USMLE is highly specialty specific.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

(throws his coffee at the computer screen...)

"USMLE not needed for competitive MD residencies..."

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

 

[Vince]

I don't even understand why this is an argument.....

Why NOT take the USMLE?

If you are worried about not doing well, then therein lies a bigger problem...one that more importantly needs to be addressed.

And I would take the advice of others who have been through the process...

If I ever become a program director, and I've thought about it, I WOULD HAVE TO SEE A USMLE score on a D.O. applicant if I was at an MD program....and I KNOW how to interpret a COMLEX score.

 

[Plinko]

This thread is really funny. It appears to be nothing more than MS 1s and 2s telling MS 4s, Interns, and Residents how little they know about the residency selection process. Acutally, I'm quite inspired. I think when I go in tomorrow I'm going to tell my attending when presenting my first headache patient that my assessment/plan is Kuru/brain transplant. When he disagres with me I think I'll tell him what a ***** he is and add that "he must be one of those idiots that took the COMLEX and the USMLE."

 

[Plinko]

This thread is really funny. It appears to be nothing more than MS 1s and 2s telling MS 4s, Interns, and Residents how little they know about the residency selection process. Acutally, I'm quite inspired. I think when I go in tomorrow I'm going to tell my attending when presenting my first headache patient that my assessment/plan is Kuru/brain transplant. When he disagres with me I think I'll tell him what a ***** he is and add that "he must be one of those idiots that took the COMLEX and the USMLE."

 

[(nicedream)]

It's going to be even harder for them to interpret the COMLEX now that the scoring has changed - in a way that makes the scores appear worse!

 

[kota315]

For what it is worth.... in my limited experience with the physicians that I have worked with over the course of my tenure in the various emergency departments (of which I have been employed), as a DO, it is not a requirement that DO's take the USMLE to get into a high ranking and open minded allopathic residencies (not that it matters, but I know of several individuals that have done and are doing allo residencies without sitting for the USMLE, not that sitting for the USMLE is a bad thing....just that you don't necessarily have to do it). I hope this clears up the misunderstanding that I initiated earlier.

 

[Plinko]

For what it is worth.... in my limited experience with the physicians that I have worked with over the course of my tenure in the various emergency departments (of which I have been employed), as a DO, it is not a requirement that DO's take the USMLE to get into a high ranking and open minded allopathic residencies (not that it matters, but I know of several individuals that have done and are doing allo residencies without sitting for the USMLE, not that sitting for the USMLE is a bad thing....just that you don't necessarily have to do it). I hope this clears up the misunderstanding that I initiated earlier.

Good post.

I think we all have different experiences and have heard a different range of stories relating to this subject. The bottom line is there are so many specialties, residencies, etc. and so many different personalities with varying degrees of opinions within those residencies/specialites about licensing exams that there is no way to totally define hard fast rules on what one should do about which exams to take. Each person has to make theif own decision. There are so many pathways toward achieving one's career goals that it is unwise to assume that one's own opinion is the best/only way to go.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I think I'm starting to see why there are so many opinions in this thread. If we're talking about EM, then yes, the COMLEX is all you need to take for most allopathic EM residencies. EM is notorious for being DO friendly. That's a fact.

However, that is NOT the case with more competitive residencies like ophtho, derm, rads, etc. These programs get hundreds of qualified applicants, most with USMLE scores in the 230/240 range, many in the 250, and some even in the 260+ range. If you're thinking about one of these fields, it is in your own best interest to take the USMLE. Research it and you'll see what I'm talking about. Ok, I'm done...

 

[Sinnman]

JUST TAKE THE TEST!!!


What's the big deal? Do you NEED to take the USMLE? No. Is it a good idea to take the USMLE if you're applying to an allopathic residency? Yes. Is the USMLE any harder than the COMLEX? No (in fact, I think it’s a MUCH better test). Everybody has some story about a "friend" who matched at Hopkins in interventional pediatric plastic-surgical dermatoradiooncology but that is not valid sample.

Why do people get bent out of shape about the USMLE? The cost? It's $500, a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme. The difficulty? It's an equivalent test over the same material. Why even debate it? I took both and scored equally well. I'm glad I took it because when applying for competitive specialties I can say I took the same test as the other guys and did equally well or better (translation: open doors).

BTW, some of you MS-1s and MS-2s really should show a little more respect to the people that have gone before you and have the unrewarded kindness to answer questions that no longer relate to them.

 

[DrMom]

I think I'm starting to see why there are so many opinions in this thread. If we're talking about EM, then yes, the COMLEX is all you need to take for most allopathic EM residencies. EM is notorious for being DO friendly. That's a fact.

I'd refine this a bit. EM is quite DO friendly, but if you're an average applicant, a USMLE score will help you get more interviews.

 

[(nicedream)]

Everybody has some story about a "friend" who matched at Hopkins in interventional pediatric plastic-surgical dermatoradiooncology but that is not valid sample.

Yeah, but Hopkins IPPSDRO is notoriously DO-friendly.

 

[drusso]

If you're interested in applying to ACGME residencies, then taking the USMLE step I (and sometimes II) helps tremendously. It takes a lot of questions about comparing apples and oranges off the table during residency interviews. I think that it also shows program directors that you're really serious about getting an ACGME residency because they know that DO's don't necessarily have to take the USMLE.

No one needs to worry about step III. Since as DO students you have to take the COMLEX I and II in medical school, why not just piggy-back the USMLE 1 week later. That's what I did. I finished my licensure series with the COMLEX III and am licensed under the NBOME. To boot, I also managed to get my ACGME Transitional Year AOA-approved (read Resolution 42 on the AOA website).

So, I'm a DO who has done an MD residency (and soon fellowship), am licensed under the NBOME, and have my internship AOA approved. It's the best of all worlds!

 

[BACMEDIC]

I don't even understand why this is an argument.....

Why NOT take the USMLE?

If you are worried about not doing well, then therein lies a bigger problem...one that more importantly needs to be addressed.

Here is my take on this. With the additional training that we have in OMM and all the time it takes to study and practice the art, how does one find the time to prepare to study for the USMLE?

For me, it is no small surprise that DO students do not fair as well on the USMLE step 1 as our fellow allopaths. First, we study and train for the COMLEX, and second, there is a minimum of 3 hours/wk devoted to OMM. Now if you want to pass that course, then you add to that the study time and practice time, then include the time devoted to the insanity that happens when studying for the OMM written and the practical exams. This leaves little time to study subjects emphasized by the USMLE.

I think if we could convert that OMM time into USMLE subject preparation, then I would predict that most “normal” DO students would do just fine on the USMLE – but then we would loose our unique art. You DO students who take the USMLE and do well, I just think you’re a super-hero. Just how do you people do it – inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Sugar72]

Here is my take on this. With the additional training that we have in OMM and all the time it takes to study and practice the art, how does one find the time to prepare to study for the USMLE?

For me, it is no small surprise that DO students do not fair as well on the USMLE step 1 as our fellow allopaths. First, we study and train for the COMLEX, and second, there is a minimum of 3 hours/wk devoted to OMM. Now if you want to pass that course, then you add to that the study time and practice time, then include the time devoted to the insanity that happens when studying for the OMM written and the practical exams. This leaves little time to study subjects emphasized by the USMLE.

I think if we could convert that OMM time into USMLE subject preparation, then I would predict that most “normal” DO students would do just fine on the USMLE – but then we would loose our unique art. You DO students who take the USMLE and do well, I just think you’re a super-hero. Just how do you people do it – inquiring minds want to know.

I did much better on the USMLE vs the COMLEX on step one and step 2 (although the difference wasn't as great for step 2). It is a better written test and extremely doable if you do qbanks. I hope that the majority of you ms2's reading this realize that opting to not take the USMLE will limit your future choices. I hate to see people limit their options when it is so easy to sit for 9 hours at your friendly prometric center.

 

[drusso]

Here is my take on this. With the additional training that we have in OMM and all the time it takes to study and practice the art, how does one find the time to prepare to study for the USMLE?

The content covered is essentially the same minus OMM. Just get used to answering USMLE style questions which tend to me more uniform in presentation compared to COMLEX questions and you'll be fine. Doing Q-bank type questions is a great idea.

 

[schutzhund]

I still don't get it!!!!! It's basically the same frickin' test!!!!! Why is that so hard to understand? If you are prepared for the COMLEX you are prepared for the USMLE. Granted, the USMLE has a little more cell, molecular and genetic questions but it has much easier anatomy and micro questions. Literally a few days to purge the OMM from your brain and to look over First Aid will have you ready to go.

Why do some many DO students feel that they are not prepared for the USMLE? Furthermore, how do think that makes us look? Think about it.

Everybody that I knew that took the USMLE did fine, some did better, some did worse. In the end, it is an EQUIVALENT test (albeit a better written test). The only significant difference that I see is that DO students often wait too long after the COMLEX to take the USMLE. That will hurt you. Take it within a week or two and your scores will be similar.

You guys are killing me here!!!!!! Take that test!!!!!!!!! There is NO reason not to. Stop thinking you're not good enough.

 

[(nicedream)]

I still don't get it!!!!! It's basically the same frickin' test!!!!! Why is that so hard to understand? If you are prepared for the COMLEX you are prepared for the USMLE. Granted, the USMLE has a little more cell, molecular and genetic questions but it has much easier anatomy and micro questions. Literally a few days to purge the OMM from your brain and to look over First Aid will have you ready to go.

Why do some many DO students feel that they are not prepared for the USMLE? Furthermore, how do think that makes us look? Think about it.

Everybody that I knew that took the USMLE did fine, some did better, some did worse. In the end, it is an EQUIVALENT test (albeit a better written test). The only significant difference that I see is that DO students often wait too long after the COMLEX to take the USMLE. That will hurt you. Take it within a week or two and your scores will be similar.

You guys are killing me here!!!!!! Take that test!!!!!!!!! There is NO reason not to. Stop thinking you're not good enough.

What makes people think that DOs do poorly on it is the significantly low pass rate (around 75%).

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I'd refine this a bit. EM is quite DO friendly, but if you're an average applicant, a USMLE score will help you get more interviews.

Agreed.

 

[cmeshy]

While I've heard that taking the USMLE is a good idea and helps out the adcoms to "level the playing field", both exams come with a percentile ranking system. If a committee can't sit down and read where you stand amongst all those who took the COMLEX, then more than likely a bias against DO's already exists and they aren't interested. Taking both is a gamble. Rock the COMLEX and more importantly, get good grades. There's a percentile ranking there as well. This little factor seems to have been left out during this "discussion."

 

[Arch Guillotti]

While I've heard that taking the USMLE is a good idea and helps out the adcoms to "level the playing field", both exams come with a percentile ranking system. If a committee can't sit down and read where you stand amongst all those who took the COMLEX, then more than likely a bias against DO's already exists and they aren't interested. Taking both is a gamble. Rock the COMLEX and more importantly, get good grades. There's a percentile ranking there as well. This little factor seems to have been left out during this "discussion."

Some programs may not receive a lot of DO applications. Also, the COMLEX percentile scores don't do the PD any good in comparing DO students to the USMLE. There is no conversion. I kinda used to think the same thing as you a few years ago, then I realized that the whole DO bias thing was simply dogma for the most part. When I interviewed at the program where I am now a resident the chair told me that taking the USMLE was the best decision I made and that it really helped my app. In other words, since he could compare my scores to the other (mostly) allopathic applicants I stood a better shot at matching. Just because my program likes very much to look at USMLE scores from DO applicants, in NO WAY does it mean that they are biased towards DO. I am treated EXACTLY the same as my mostly allopathic counterparts. There are DO's at all levels in my program, including attendings.

 

[(nicedream)]

According to the NBOME, there is no percentile reported for COMLEX.

 

[Sugar72]

According to the NBOME, there is no percentile reported for COMLEX.

That's true - the percentile reporting has been replaced by a mysterious 2 digit number that is not a percentile. There can't be a percentile ranking when the exam is taken at different times on the computer.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

According to the NBOME, there is no percentile reported for COMLEX.

All the more reason for PD's to have trouble interpreting scores and more reason for Do's to take the USMLE. The percent score was reported when I took the COMLEX and I am still glad I took the USMLE. Best decision I ever made.

 

[smgilles]

All the more reason for PD's to have trouble interpreting scores and more reason for Do's to take the USMLE. The percent score was reported when I took the COMLEX and I am still glad I took the USMLE. Best decision I ever made.

I second that, every allopathic place I have called to inquiry about their residency program the PD would ask what was my 2-digit score on the USMLE. It's all about apples to apples.

If you are a DO and want to enter the allopathic world I HIGHLY recommend you take the USMLE, you will only be selling yourself short in the end if you don't. Why shut doors from the start?

 

[group_theory]

I second that, every allopathic place I have called to inquiry about their residency program the PD would ask what was my 2-digit score on the USMLE. It's all about apples to apples.

If you are a DO and want to enter the allopathic world I HIGHLY recommend you take the USMLE, you will only be selling yourself short in the end if you don't. Why shut doors from the start?

The reason PD ask for the 2-digit score (on USMLE) is because the 3-digit score is always changing (in terms of what is passing). The 2-digit score is static, so a 75 is passing, no matter if it was taken 4 years ago or last year. If going by a 3 digit score, a 181 might have been passing several years ago, but will be a failing score this year (and PDs don't want to check every year to see what's passing - simplier just to look at the 2 digit)

The new mysterious COMLEX 2 digit score is suppose to be similar. Instead of percentile, PDs will get a 2 digit score (in addition to the 3 digit) that is akin to the 2 digit score on USMLE (a 75 is passing).

Now whether you can compare 2-digist scores from USMLE and COMLEX (is an 80 on comlex the same as an 80 on usmle) -- that's a subject for a whole new debate