DO Students...Regret Not Taking the USMLE?

[olliemctuffy]

As we gear up for the boards this summer, many of us are wondering whether we should take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX. Anyone have any experience with difficulties doing audition rotations or applying for (or getting) a residency due to not taking the USMLE?

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[pomonaDO]

As we gear up for the boards this summer, many of us are wondering whether we should take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX. Anyone have any experience with difficulties doing audition rotations or applying for (or getting) a residency due to not taking the USMLE?

no DO student should even think twice about taking usmle. i would also go so far as to say regardless of how well you do on step 1 also take step 2 and early. some argue that if a program will not accept the comlex then why would i as a DO want to go to a program that will not accept my licensing exam. the answer is most programs would gladly accept a DO student if they had a level playing field on which to compare them against all other applicants. take usmle step 1. and if doing anything other than maybe family medicine study and take step 2 early 4th year so you can use in on your eras application. you will not be dissapointed. even friends that i know that did worse on step 2 still matched into competitive fields in allopathic residencies. just accept the fact that you will need to shell out the extra bucks to take both comlex and usmle and spend that time you would have spent wondering if you need to take the usmle by actually studying for the usmle.

 

[Taus]

interesting...most students I know only take step 1 of the USMLE unless they want something insanely competative like ortho, surg, optho, etc (and will then also take step 2)

 

[schrute]

no DO student should even think twice about taking usmle. i would also go so far as to say regardless of how well you do on step 1 also take step 2 and early. some argue that if a program will not accept the comlex then why would i as a DO want to go to a program that will not accept my licensing exam. the answer is most programs would gladly accept a DO student if they had a level playing field on which to compare them against all other applicants. take usmle step 1. and if doing anything other than maybe family medicine study and take step 2 early 4th year so you can use in on your eras application. you will not be dissapointed. even friends that i know that did worse on step 2 still matched into competitive fields in allopathic residencies. just accept the fact that you will need to shell out the extra bucks to take both comlex and usmle and spend that time you would have spent wondering if you need to take the usmle by actually studying for the usmle.

I agree. I know several 4th years that, though they did interview at several allo residencies, they were flat-out denied at some strictly on the basis of not having taken the USMLE, which is usually a means of establishing baselines, not because they're "anti-DO." one of them is doing gas...did he take the USMLE? no. is he still going to a little known school in Rochester, MN? yes.

also, some institutions require you to have taken the USMLE just to rotate there.

take path for example--not a single DO path residency...necessary to then take the USMLE? maybe...depends on where you apply: Mass General...yes; midwest program...probably not. but the point is, you don't know where you're going to end up, or perhaps what field you'll even end up choosing.

Bottom line: unless the residency has a steadfast rule requiring USMLE scores, it's less likely you'll need it, and many other factors come into play, like who writes your LORs, who you know, and have you done a rotation there.

Personally, I took USMLE 1, didn't exacly smoke it, but I can say it was a well-written, difficult test that was much better than the COMLEX. Does the satisfaction of taking it trump getting a low score? Probably not, but if you get a low score, that just means you'll have to take step 2 early, and hopefully by then you'll know what field you're entering and the necessity for taking step 2 or not.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Taking the USMLE was the best decision I ever made. I scored marginally on step I (200) then pushed it up to a 241 on Step II. This was enough to get me gas interviews at JHU and Penn, among others. I matched at my first choice. Incidentally, I also took Step III and scored 230+ so I never took COMLEX 3 and got my unrestricted medical license on the basis of USMLE.

 

[Pansit]

Taking the USMLE was the best decision I ever made. I scored marginally on step I (200) then pushed it up to a 241 on Step II. This was enough to get me gas interviews at JHU and Penn, among others. I matched at my first choice. Incidentally, I also took Step III and scored 230+ so I never took COMLEX 3 and got my unrestricted medical license on the basis of USMLE.

You can do that?...I thought you always had to finish out the COMLEX series of exams as a D.O...is this something common or rare?

 

[NoOneKnows]

It totally depends on what you're going into. If you're going into something competative or not sure what you want to do, then taking the USMLE would be a good idea. If you are planning on going into FP then it's not really necessary (unless there are some super competative FP residencies that I am not aware of). Alot of FP residencies don't even fill with the match. I only took the COMLEX and got my first choice for an allopathic FP residency.

 

[badgas]

The bottom line is that you are closing doors for yourself by not taking it. Taking it won't kill you... not taking it WILL kill your chances at a good number of programs.

 

[DOctorJay]

Taus, fyi, i'm taking step 2 based on advice from drusso among others. just keep it in mind for next year.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

I vote to take the stinking USMLE. I was strongly considering another specialty and I thought I didn't need it. Plans changed. I had no problem getting interviews on the DO circuit, but only a few bites from the allopaths. (To be fair, I only applied to a 8 or so programs). Of my rejections, two cited not having the USMLE as their reason.

It all worked out well, I matched at a great program for me. I think the take home point is that your plans may change widely from 1st/2nd year to 4th year, so be prepared by taking the USMLE.

 

[JonnyG]

I think it all depends on the question you ask:

Why should I take the USMLE? is the wrong question

Why shouldN'T I take the USMLE? is the correct one.
Many docs I have talked to have no problems with DOs but point out that if we expect to be considered equals, why don't we take their test. We are the minority and shouldn't force them to figure out the equivalence of the test.

That made making the decision to take the USMLE easy. I was also planning on taking the Step 2 since I have no desire to do an osteopathic residency especially in PA with the stupid internship year.

 

[drusso]

Let me frame this advice as someone who has reviewed resident applicant files (both MD and DO). If you're a DO and you have *ANY* uncertainty about whether the majority of programs in your field will be able to understand and interpret the COMLEX, then take the USMLE steps 1 and 2. No one will ever care which step 3 you take and there may be some long-term benefits to being licensed under the COMLEX/NBOME in terms of continuing medical education, etc down the road. Don't worry about biases, etc. Just take it. Think of it as your "ACGME-residency admission examination."

 

[Freshnstylin]

I think it depends on what you wanna do. Like drrusso said...if you are considering ACGME residencies...even if you don't know what you wanna do...then definitely take it. This is what my advisor told me to do. I have no idea what I want to do nor do I know if I wanna do osteopathic or allopathic match. If you are clueless like me...take both. If you know for sure you want something competitive or go to a hospital in a competitive location...take both. Most third years I spoke to did about the same, comparatively. So if you score 90th% on USMLE...you will probably be close to that on COMLEX too. But if you know that you want to stay in primary care or definitely go the osteopathic route...COMLEX is fine.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

You can do that?...I thought you always had to finish out the COMLEX series of exams as a D.O...is this something common or rare?

Probably pretty rare. I don't know of anyone else who has done it. drusso is probably right, though, I am probably gonna pay for it somehow on down the line. COMLEX 3 seemed a pain to schedule and have to travel in order to take. USMLE was easier to schedule and take.

 

[DOctorJay]

quick question, if you take USMLE step 3 as a DO and receive your medical license based on this exam, would you still not be allowed to practice in "the 5 states" based on your DO degree if you didn't do a DO intern year?

 

[Dr JPH]

For me taking the USMLE was a waste of money, but thats because I only applied to DO and dually accredited programs.

If I were applying to allopathic programs then I think I would feel differently.

I used to say "only take USMLE if you are applying to competitive allopathic spots", but I have changed my opinion.

You dont want to give an allopathic program ANY excuse. Have competitive preclinical grades, honors on your clinical rotations, stellar LORs and you WANT that competitive board score...COMLEX as well as USMLE.

Again, dont give a program a reason for not considering you the same way they would consider a 4th year from any other medical school in the country.

Dont let $500 and an extra day in front of a computer be the reason you are held out of your top choice program.

 

[Hernandez]

Take USMLE step 1, just so you can see what a real licensing exam looks like, and then help push the NBOME to bring the standard of the test questions up.

COMLEX has far too many poorly worded, half-assed questions where are inexcusable..........

 

[Green912]

The fact that I took the USMLE I & II was mentioned several times during my interviews. I was also told it was also one of the main factors that led to me interviewing at the program where I ultimately matched.

 

[SOUNDMAN]

I'm definitely planning on taking both exams, and actually gearing my study for the USMLE and then doing the necessary OMM review etc for the COMLEX. I think anyone even remotely interested in an ACGME residency should take the USMLE even if you end up going DO all the way.

 

[P Willi]

I'm definitely planning on taking both exams, and actually gearing my study for the USMLE and then doing the necessary OMM review etc for the COMLEX. I think anyone even remotely interested in an ACGME residency should take the USMLE even if you end up going DO all the way.

I agree. My studying for the COMLEX and USLME were pretty similar except maybe more biochem, molecular or OMM here and there. Most people also seem to score similarly on both tests. Also, eventhough you are thinking you might go into something noncompetitive, you never know. So many people change their mind into their MS3/4 year.

Another option to think about also is taking the USMLE Step 2 and rather than 1.

 

[group_theory]

quick question, if you take USMLE step 3 as a DO and receive your medical license based on this exam, would you still not be allowed to practice in "the 5 states" based on your DO degree if you didn't do a DO intern year?

First, if you don't do an AOA-approved internship year (either through an AOA internship or an AOA-approved ACGME PGY1 year), then you cannot get licensed in PA, MI, OK, FL, WV.


If you do not finish the COMLEX series (all 3 steps), then the following states (based on state laws/regs and board of osteopathic medicine rulings) will not allow you to get licensed (even if you have done an AOA approved internship) ... CA, FL, MI (for initial licensure), OK, PA, TN (for initial licensure), VT, WV

MI and TN will not accept USMLE for initial licensure, but will accept USMLE if you're going for license reciprocity

 

[Inquiringmind24]

I'm definitely planning on taking both exams, and actually gearing my study for the USMLE and then doing the necessary OMM review etc for the COMLEX. I think anyone even remotely interested in an ACGME residency should take the USMLE even if you end up going DO all the way.

I totally agree and that is my plan. While I'm not crazy about taking the USMLE, I think it'll be worth it in the end regardless of how much that extra day of test-taking will suck.

 

[Dr JPH]

I totally agree and that is my plan. While I'm not crazy about taking the USMLE, I think it'll be worth it in the end regardless of how much that extra day of test-taking will suck.

You shouldnt be crazy about taking COMLEX

USMLE is a breeze compared to the COMLEX

 

[Taus]

You shouldnt be crazy about taking COMLEX

USMLE is a breeze compared to the COMLEX

be that as it may....reviewing cell and molecular in depth right now is a pain in my a$$...

 

[goooooober]

You shouldnt be crazy about taking COMLEX

USMLE is a breeze compared to the COMLEX

I really really hope that you are kidding.

 

[SOUNDMAN]

I have heard it's more of a "breeze" because the questions are written better than COMLEX questions. Just what I've heard, no real evidence to back it up.

 

[Dr JPH]

I really really hope that you are kidding.

Afraid not

 

[Idiopathic]

I have heard it's more of a "breeze" because the questions are written better than COMLEX questions. Just what I've heard, no real evidence to back it up.

NOT a breeze. a hard test, but so much more in line with what you would expect, as far as wording, because its much more like QBank, NMR, etc, as far as structure.

 

[Idiopathic]

First, if you don't do an AOA-approved internship year (either through an AOA internship or an AOA-approved ACGME PGY1 year), then you cannot get licensed in PA, MI, OK, FL, WV.

Not true. there is a waiver process, although I suppose you are technically correct, since it often means you get your PGY-1 year 'approved', but its done retroactively, usually.

 

[goooooober]

Afraid not

Have you taken both exams? I have taken Step I and II of both Comlex and USMLE and while it is true that USMLE is worded better, almost every single question has at least 2 good answers out of 10. On the Comlex, you read the questions and you are like WTF, but then when you look at the answer choices, usually only one stands out as being the correct answer out of 4. Overall, USMLE is a much harder exam than COMLEX because most questions dive deeper into your knowledge level and you need to know your ****. COMLEX questions are very superficial with no in depth knowledge of physiology, biochem or even pharm required.

 

[Dr JPH]

Have you taken both exams? I have taken Step I and II of both Comlex and USMLE and while it is true that USMLE is worded better, almost every single question has at least 2 good answers out of 10. On the Comlex, you read the questions and you are like WTF, but then when you look at the answer choices, usually only one stands out as being the correct answer out of 4. Overall, USMLE is a much harder exam than COMLEX because most questions dive deeper into your knowledge level and you need to know your ****. COMLEX questions are very superficial with no in depth knowledge of physiology, biochem or even pharm required.

I have taken both.

I agree that USMLE is more difficult in that it challenges you to get the right answer. But I think I do better on that type of test (in fact, I DID do better) because it makes me think. And, the USMLE doesnt confuse, intentionally or otherwise.

 

[Hernandez]

but then when you look at the answer choices, usually only one stands out as being the correct answer out of 4.

I disagree on this point, it always seemed that there were 2 correct choices which you couldn't figure out what the hell they wanted until you saw the next question about the same question stem.

 

[misparas]

Would there be any value in taking the USMLE step 2 and skipping step 1? Will the results get back in time to use that score for residency apps? I hear that it is much easier to do well on step 2 than 1.

 

[Dr JPH]

Would there be any value in taking the USMLE step 2 and skipping step 1? Will the results get back in time to use that score for residency apps? I hear that it is much easier to do well on step 2 than 1.

Depends on how early you take step 2.

Remember, as a DO you can always chose NOT to report the USMLE scores if you do poorly or worse than expected.

So you have to take COMLEX. Well, if your COMLEX score is 85th percentile and your USMLE is significantly below that, simply dont report it.

 

[Static Line]

Depends on how early you take step 2.

So you have to take COMLEX. Well, if your COMLEX score is 85th percentile and your USMLE is significantly below that, simply don't report it.

Very true! A friend of mine was told at an allopathic program he would have been better off not reporting his USMLE and just using his COMLEX score which they would have accepted. He had good COMLEX but poor USMLE.

Excuse? Don't know. But it is a good idea to call programs of choice and ask them or search their website.

 

[Taus]

Depends on how early you take step 2.

Remember, as a DO you can always chose NOT to report the USMLE scores if you do poorly or worse than expected.

So you have to take COMLEX. Well, if your COMLEX score is 85th percentile and your USMLE is significantly below that, simply dont report it.

JP...I'm not 100% sure about it, but I've definitely heard that the choice to report it to ERAS or not is no longer an option as of the last year or so

 

[misparas]

Depends on how early you take step 2.

How early would one have to take it?

If it really is an easier exam, it seems like a good way to go.

 

[azcom07]

JP...I'm not 100% sure about it, but I've definitely heard that the choice to report it to ERAS or not is no longer an option as of the last year or so

that myth was perpetuated at my school as well. having just gone through the process i can tell you 100% it is not true. you can choose if you want to release your usmle score or not.

 

[Dr JPH]

JP...I'm not 100% sure about it, but I've definitely heard that the choice to report it to ERAS or not is no longer an option as of the last year or so

Not true, not true.

When you fill out the ERAS application you have COMPLETE control over who gets what.

For example.

Lets say I apply to 10 programs
I have COMLEX 1, COMLEX 2, USMLE 1 and USMLE 2 scores
I have 8 letters of recommendation
I have 3 personal statements


I can let program 1 have ANY combination of the above

Why is this good?

If I am applying to a DO program I want them to have COMLEX AND the LOR from DOs who mention "osteopathic" in their letter

To the MD progams I want COMLEX, USMLE and the LOR from docs who DONT mention "osteopathic"

Also, I can send the program whichever personal statement I want.

Again, the DO programs get the "DO" personal statement, the MD programs get the "non DO" personal statement and my #1 choices gets the major kiss ass personal statement.

Again, ERAS gives you total control over who can see what from your profile. You upload ALL the information and then its as easy as clicking the boxes of what you want sent to each program

The ONLY thing that is uniform is the general information (name, transcript, CV stuff, etc)

 

[Taus]

Not true, not true.

When you fill out the ERAS application you have COMPLETE control over who gets what.

For example.

Lets say I apply to 10 programs
I have COMLEX 1, COMLEX 2, USMLE 1 and USMLE 2 scores
I have 8 letters of recommendation
I have 3 personal statements


I can let program 1 have ANY combination of the above

Why is this good?

If I am applying to a DO program I want them to have COMLEX AND the LOR from DOs who mention "osteopathic" in their letter

To the MD progams I want COMLEX, USMLE and the LOR from docs who DONT mention "osteopathic"

Also, I can send the program whichever personal statement I want.

Again, the DO programs get the "DO" personal statement, the MD programs get the "non DO" personal statement and my #1 choices gets the major kiss ass personal statement.

Again, ERAS gives you total control over who can see what from your profile. You upload ALL the information and then its as easy as clicking the boxes of what you want sent to each program

The ONLY thing that is uniform is the general information (name, transcript, CV stuff, etc)

got it...thanks...I was kinda hoping that a rule mandating DO's to report their USMLE score would be put into place.....as to prevent the DO students from "just taking it to see how they would do...or as a warm-up for the COMLEX" w/o any USMLE-specific studying....I assume that mind-set (which I currently see among several classmates) leads to our somewhat lower passing rate on the exam then our allopathic peers

 

[group_theory]

got it...thanks...I was kinda hoping that a rule mandating DO's to report their USMLE score would be put into place.....as to prevent the DO students from "just taking it to see how they would do...or as a warm-up for the COMLEX" w/o any USMLE-specific studying....I assume that mind-set (which I currently see among several classmates) leads to our somewhat lower passing rate on the exam then our allopathic peers

If you want your application (via ERAS) to contain your score report (which is kinda important part of your application), you have to pay the respective organization (NBME or NBOME) $50 to release your scores to ERAS (to make life simplier, ERAS will collect the fee for them). (why does this sound like a shake-down?)

So if you want your COMLEX score available AT ALL (even just 1 program), you need to fork over $50.

If you want your USMLE score available at all (even to just 1 program), you need to fork over $50.

So if you want both USMLE and COMLEX scores available through ERAS, you need to fork over $100. Thankfully it is only a 1 time fee (so it matters not if you send usmle score to only 1 program or 200 programs)

So if you don't want your usmle score to show up on any of your application, just don't check the box that says you took the USMLE, don't check the box that says "report USMLE to THIS program" and just don't pay $50.


*btw, this is a universal rule ... the MD students have to pay $50 to have their USMLE score get released from NBME and go to ERAS.

 

[surrender903]

when i took COMLEX it was simply a matter of money. i was at the tail end of my loan disbursement, and funds were tight.

 

[polynikesdb]

xxx

 

[Freshnstylin]

if you are unsure...just take USMLE. it's really now or never for step 1. you'll never want to go back.

 

[JonnyG]

got it...thanks...I was kinda hoping that a rule mandating DO's to report their USMLE score would be put into place.....as to prevent the DO students from "just taking it to see how they would do...or as a warm-up for the COMLEX" w/o any USMLE-specific studying....I assume that mind-set (which I currently see among several classmates) leads to our somewhat lower passing rate on the exam then our allopathic peers

I guess no one told you. Apparently with our class there will be a notation on our transcripts that we took the USMLE. No more hiding at PCOM.

 

[stretch210]

I've heard the same thing, as of THIS year, it will be made clear to ALL that you have taken the USMLE.

Since there is so much confusion on this, who exactly do we get in touch with to get the definitive answer?

 

[JonnyG]

I've heard the same thing, as of THIS year, it will be made clear to ALL that you have taken the USMLE.

Since there is so much confusion on this, who exactly do we get in touch with to get the definitive answer?

If you are refering just to PCOM, the person who told me is in SGA. I would assume the registrar could tell you. And This year is what I meant because my class is the current one taking the COMLEX/USMLE

 

[Taus]

If you are refering just to PCOM, the person who told me is in SGA. I would assume the registrar could tell you. And This year is what I meant because my class is the current one taking the COMLEX/USMLE

Thanks man...good to know....though I can take a few guesses as to why our school has that in place...I'd be curious to hear what the actual reasons were (btw I'm very happy that we have that rule for reasons I discussed earlier in this thread)

 

[pomonaDO]

If you are refering just to PCOM, the person who told me is in SGA. I would assume the registrar could tell you. And This year is what I meant because my class is the current one taking the COMLEX/USMLE

when this rumor was going around my school i emailed the eras website. i emailed three times and got answeres from three seperate individuals, each confirming the rumor was false. someplace on the eras site i found snapshots of the pages of the eras application, it was a tutorial of filling out the application and you can actually see the question where you designate your usmle scores to be sent to schools. it is exactly like how somebody indicated in an earlier post in this thread. stop worrying about if to take it or not or if you will have to send your scores or not. just start studying and take the test no matter if you are dead set on a family practice or are sure you want to go someplace where you can get great omm training in residency. the dumbest thing any DO student can do is not take usmle.

 

[JonnyG]

Thanks man...good to know....though I can take a few guesses as to why our school has that in place...I'd be curious to hear what the actual reasons were (btw I'm very happy that we have that rule for reasons I discussed earlier in this thread)

I am all for this. People should be serious about taking the test and being able to hide is a crutch that needs to go away. I wish they would advertise it more around school so that some people would reconsider taking the test. We have to meet up and discuss are theories sometime. I have my own too.


Also, this is a PCOM only thing and has nothing to do with eras, so emailing them wouldn't help. There are ways for a school to tell your residency program that you took the usmle other than eras...deans letter and transcript.