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DO to MD transfer

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by cowboybob, Aug 6, 1999.

  1. cowboybob

    cowboybob Junior Member

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    Has anyone ever heard of someone transferring from osteopathic to allopathic med school (if so, why?)? I know transfers are relatively rare and are usually associated with marital and/or family situations (e.g. illness/keeping marriage together); however, I was still curious?



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    cowboybob
     
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  3. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

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    Why?

    If you don't want to become a osteopathic physician, why did you choose it at the begining?


     
  4. pancho

    pancho Junior Member

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    RELAX HENRY! Cowboybob has a very legitimate question...
     
  5. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor

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    I've never heard of anyone from an osteopathic school transferring to an allopathic school, but then again, I don't know all too many osteopathic or allopathic students to begin with.

    It is technically possible, however, since a few MD schools will consider osteopathic medical students for transfer into the third year. The reason probably has to be very compelling, and you're going to also probably need to convince your dean that going to "the other side" is in your, as well as society's, best interests.

    Tim of New York City.
     
  6. MB

    MB Junior Member

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    Cowboybob - My understanding is that it can be done; however, there are very few allopathic schools that will allow it. In addition, those schools that will consider DO transfers usually only allow transfers after the pre-clinical years and the first step of boards. A classmate of mine considered transfering last year, but only 1 out of the 12 schools he contacted would consider him. I know that Creighton in Nebraska will consider DO transfers, but that is the only school that I know of for sure.
     
  7. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member

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    Wow, your friend contacted 12 schools in order to get the "M.D." after his name? Some people never cease to amaze me.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor

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    Creighton University (Omaha, NE) as well as George Washington University (Washington, DC) will consider osteopathic students for transfer into the THIRD year following completion of the USMLE Step 1.

    There are a couple of others that I've stumbled across over the years, but in all honesty, is getting an MD so important that you'll uproot yourself from the comfortable position in a school that is as good, if not better than, an MD school?

    Tim of New York City.
     
  9. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member

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    Some schools that do accept DO transfers also make you repeat a year at their school to "show" that you are truly qualified. Also remember that MD transfers get priority over DO transfers and you must have a truly compelling reason to transfer.
     
  10. cowboybob

    cowboybob Junior Member

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    Did not intend to get anyone's panties in a wad! The point was to engender discussion on transfers. To make everyone happy, has anyone heard of someone transfering from MD to DO school? GO DO!!

    In terms of the AUC question, Pestana does not have any info in his book due to threat of a law suit.
    ---that fear of scrutiny might tell you something right there (He talks about this in the book)---
    He does mention that X school (AUC--I assume)poured money into the physical facilities rather than the curriculum (apparently down the drain thanks to a non-cooperative volcano).
    Don't count on transfering if foreign bound. I checked with several schools stateside that now have new policies on foreign (outside US) students (THEY WILL NO LONGER TAKE THEM!).
    However, do not be discouraged if you want to go into primary care or general practice. From what I gathered, residencies should be relatively open in these areas for the near future, especially in rural areas.


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    cowboybob
     
  11. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor

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    Hmmm... You neither upset me nor got my panties in a wad, but when you're reading these premed/med school discussion groups, there's always (several times a year) some thread similar to an MD vs. DO one. It gets to be a nuisance, but I'm not implying that your post was.

    MD to DO transfer? Well I did work with this DO resident at a prestigious NYC hospital once who claimed to have transferred from an MD school (that is, an AAMC-accredited school in New York State) to a DO school (somewhere in New York State also [​IMG]) I, for one, don't believe it because of various obstacles and technicalities that he seemed to overcome with little resistance.

    The transfer policies for DO schools regarding MD students is that they don't accept them. Most DO schools I've checked out, and that's not too hard to do considering there's only 19 of them, consider transfers for the third year from other AOA schools. No mention of AAMC or MD programs is made, but I have heard of foreign MD students entering US DO schools. NYCOM, for example, has a program designed to "re-educate" foreign-trained MDs to US DOs in a program called APEP (something like Advanced Preparation for Emigre Physician).

    As for transferring from a foreign school to an American school, I hear a lot of St. George's people transfer successfully to the University of Miami medical school. I can't verify this -- it's a rumor.

    Tim of New York City.
     
  12. Synergy

    Synergy Member

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    You guys need to get your facts straight and quit guessing about the subject.

    In Kenneth Isersons book Get Into Medical School: A Guide for the Perplexed
    he has a table (a little outdated now) that shows what MD schools allow DO transfers and which DO schools allow MD transfers.
    According to this table there are many MD schools (that have a primary care slant) such as Wayne State U, and Wright State U, and many state schools that take DO transfers. There are also quite a few DO schools that take MD transfers. In both cases, they take transfers after the 2nd year normally. Also, transfers tend to be done only if there is a good reason (like wife's job is going to new city, etc.) and not just because you want to transfer. There must also be spots open.
    Another thought. Why would you go through all of the trouble to transfer back and forth from either "side". Everyone will be a physician. I think MDs can learn manipulation (can they get certified in it though?).
     
  13. jawurheemd

    jawurheemd xx ToXiC xx

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    DO to MD transfers are definitely allowed. My wife and I investigated this pretty thoroughly because we were living pretty far apart -- she goes to NSUCOM in Florida and I'm at UConn med. So in order to be together, we looked into transfering -- there isn't an osteopathic school very close to Connecticut. Many allopathic schools allow DO to MD transfers, but it is extremely hard. It's extremely hard for MD to MD transfers too (especially if the school doesn't even consider you if you are from out-of-state -- which is the case with the Florida schools). I thought of doing an MD to DO transfer, but I'd have a problem with manipulation -- especially since I'd have to take the COMLEX if I transfered. It's a little more difficult to say the least. While the DO curriculum covers pretty much everything an MD curriculum covers, it doesn't work the other way around. A major component of the DO education is missing from the allopathic curriculum.

    The only way a transfer can happen is if spots open up, and if the applicant has a very good reason for wanting to transfer. Even if the school accepts you, however, it may be AFTER you already started your rotations -- meaning you have to pick up and move everything in the middle of a rotation in order to start at your new school. After careful thought, we decidied that transfering was too much hassle -- especially since her school has a track of rotations in New Jersey which is just as close as the next nearest osteopathic school, and during some months, closer. And during our fourth years, we have a number of elective months that we can use to be together. In the end, we felt that transfering is too much of a hassle whether it's DO to DO, DO to MD, MD to MD, or MD to DO.
     
    DazedAndDissapointed likes this.
  14. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor

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    NYCOM is fairly close to UConn Med. She can even take the ferry across LI Sound at Port Jeff over to Connecticut to visit you (or vice versa).

    If being closer more often is what you want, the opportunity exists. I'm not sure where NSUCOM students rotate in Jersey, but it may not be as close to CT as you think. UMDNJ's DO school, for example, is all the way in South Jersey close to Camden (near Philly) whihc is over two hours from NYC. UConn is about another hour to two depending on traffic.

    Tim of New York City.
     
  15. DrDASmith

    DrDASmith New Member

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    Two classmates of mine made the transfer between DO to MD schools at the end of freshman year, one to Brown as a second year, the other to Northwestern as a first year. It was, in my humble opinion, completely stupid to repeat the entire first year of med school for an "MD" after your name, esp. considering that he was a very good student (top 10% of class) and likable guy. He would have gotten a good residency slot no matter where he wanted it. As for the student who went to Brown, she was from New York and she had the arguement that it was closer to home. She was also either #1 or #2 in our class. You are not going to get to transfer unless your grades are tops. This is not like college, you may experience quite a shock in med school, where your test scores suddenly become "average" in a class of overachievers.

    Bottom line is pick the school where you want to go. Any hint that you might want to transfer for less than "legit" reasons is more likely to cause bad blood between you and your school.

    Good Luck!
     
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  17. Since I provided a link to this from another thread, I thought I'd contribute as well. I know of two students who transferred from TUCOM to an MD school. One went to Colorado and the other went to Chicago (I'm not sure which school). They transferred after their second year and had to take the USMLE Step 1 because this was a requirement for graduation from the school.
     
  18. grkbuckeye

    grkbuckeye Senior Member

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    I have an uncle who finished osteopathic medical school then tried to specialize in transplant surgery. after graduating top in his class he couldnt find a program that would accept DO's. He then went to University of Chicago and got his MD. they let him start as a third year, but he had to take the USMLE first. So he went from being a DO to being a third year med student again. He finished and got a top residency spot. bottom line is that you can switch between the two programs, it depends on your reason for doing it, and whether you want to sacrifice more time.
     
  19. PuppyLuv

    PuppyLuv Member

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    if i'm not wrong, SUNY Buffalo med school put it on their brochure that they do accept transfer from D.O. school and foreign schools also.
     
  20. The University of Chicago is a prestigious medical school ranked in the top 20. To receive an MD from Pritzker after only two years is not a bad deal -- especially considering the fact that the fourth year of medical school is a breeze. Too bad he did not decide to transfer after his second year of medical school though.
     
  21. JS-UNMC

    JS-UNMC Senior Member

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    Medical schools are businesses. We pay them for their services. If they do not provide what they said they would or a better opportunity comes along, why shouldn't you take it and get your moneys worth?
     
  22. Andre

    Andre Member

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    Here is a question on behalf of my wife.
    She has GPA 3.64 BS-Biology @ U of Houston.
    No MCAT.
    She is 33 years old.
    She finished the 5th semester in the Caribbean, and taking USMLE in a few months.
    She decided to go for Family Practice/ maybe IM.
    1) Can she transfer straight into the clinicals in a DO school, without repeating any of the Basic Sciences?
    2) Where are the closest DO schools to Houston, Texas? I think there is one in Dallas area?
    Thanks for your help.. good luck to everyone.
    Andre
    [email protected]
     
  23. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member

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    I may be wrong but I do not think this would be a possiblity. She would at least have to take the OMM/OPP classes that a first and second year student takes. But then again maybe they just need to fill a seat. Some of the COMs say on their websites that they only accept transfers from other osteopathic schools.
     
  24. Doc777

    Doc777 Junior Member

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    This ia an absolute impossibility. The osteopathic clinical clerkships have affiliations with the various osteopathic medical colleges, and are exclusively intended to facilitate the educational needs of D.O students. The number of spaces available within these clerkships is severely limited, and if openings do occur, they will be given to other D.O. students, and definitely not to a foreign med student. I hope things work out for your wife nonetheless.

    I think this is a common occurance. I don't know details of this situation, but I know many students chose Carribean medical schools over osteopathic med schools only to come back after graduation and ask: "Can I get a residency at a D.O. hospital?" My answer to that is always: "You should have thought about that four years ago." I urge all students applying to Carribean schools to make your choice wisely, and research your options thuroughly.

    Regards,
    Doc777

    FYI: The closest D.O. school to Houston is located in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area.
     
  25. bobo

    bobo Senior Member

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    This is coming from the clown who oh-so-very-proudly touts certain forign med schools and constantly makes ignorant, unsubstantiated claims all over the place?

    Please.
     
  26. Taylor DO

    Taylor DO Member

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    Andre,

    I know you and I have argued in the past, but I will simply forget that in hopes of giving you some sound advice.

    To begin with, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that your wife will be given any credit for the education she received in the caribbean.

    There is only one osteopathic program in Texas, and I can guarantee you with absolute certainty that if she wants to become an osteopathic physician, she will have to start from square one as a first year student at every single osteopathic program in this country.

    The reasons for this are numerous, but the most obvious relates to the two years of coursework in osteopathic manipulative therapy/treatment (OMT) that she lacks as a caribbean student. The coursework is not something that can be remediated in a short period of time. It is two years of education that will never be ignored by the osteopathic medical community.

    Question out of curiosity. What happened to your wife and AUC?

    Best of luck to her and yourself regarding this topic.

    Taylor DO
     
  27. Andre

    Andre Member

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    Thank you everybody..
    My wife had to start @ AUC 2-years ago due to: 1)no MCAT and 2)no Green Card. 3)no knowledge of DO schools existance.
    Now things are looking up,
    she finished 5th semester @ AUC, and studying at home for USMLE. We now have the Green Card status.
    She finally decided to be a FP and nothing else.
    Consequently, she will continue moving from Baltimore to Chicago to Detroit for 2-years for clinicals, where AUC has affiliated hospitals. I am sure she will make a fine Family Physician.
    I just wanted to see if it was feasible to transfer her into a DO school in Texas; as I still have to stay in Houston and continue to work to pay the bills.
    It would be acceptable if she could do it with only a few extra courses. But now I understand that she may have to repeat 2-years. I think she should continue with AUC.
    As she is not the top performer in her class, transferring to an Allophatic school, even if she gets 85% on USMLE, will not be possible.
    Well, thanks again for all the info.
    By the way, what sort of low-life is this Bobo character? Doesn't he know anything else but insults??
    Andre
     
  28. CAT

    CAT Member

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    Just curious Andre -- why didn't she take the MCAT? As you probably know, MCAT results are required for admission to osteopathic, as well as allopathic medical schools in the US.

    P.S. In defense of Bobo -- Andre you must realize that your posts touting offshore schools have often seemed uninformed and at times rather arrogant.

    [This message has been edited by CAT (edited 05-31-2000).]
     
  29. Andre

    Andre Member

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    CAT:
    Why didn't my wife take the MCAT?
    I will answer this the way they say in the Middle East:
    You can take the horse to the water, BUT you can not make her drink it...
    She had Pre-Med GPA 3.9 with straight A's.. Dean's List every semester..
    Same success in UH BS-Biology GPA 3.65.
    Then she took an MCAT prep course, and got discouraged after flunking a few trial tests..
    Her excuse was: English is her 2nd language, and she was having problems with Reading Comprehension...
    I just could not convince her to go for it. God knows I tried. I will never completely understand women.
    Where do we go from here? Worst case, she will finish clinicals as an IMG. She is extremely compassionate and caring, and I am sure one day she will make a fine FP. She dropped out of high school just to work at minimum wage and care for her crippled, wheel-chair bound father for 5 years!!
    She is tri-lingual (Polish+Russian) and I am sure she will manage to secure an FP residency in Chicago or NY where there are large East Eoropean ethnic population.
    I just hoped that she could be a DO.
    Any further advice is always welcome.
    And yes, I am grateful to AUC for giving her the chance to realize her childhood dream.
    Needless to say, she could not go to SGU w/o MCAT.
    May God bless us all,
    Andre
     
  30. Taylor DO

    Taylor DO Member

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    Andre,

    Just curious, but your wife's aversion to the MCAT and with her self-perceived limits in reading comprehension, how is she going to address the demands of the USMLE?

    Back in February you mentioned she had completed her 5th semester at AUC, which leads me to ask, why has she taken so long to sit for the USMLE?

    I wish your wife the best in her pursuit.

    Taylor


     
  31. Andre

    Andre Member

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    Taylor DO:
    In her terms "she needed a break to charge her batteries"
    Remember, she is a lady, and therefore it is her "God given" right to be "unpredictable" and to change her mind for no apparent reason.
    May I assume you are not married??
    She just finished reviewing "Arc Venture" notes.
    July & August she will take the Kaplan course...
    If she flunks USMLE after all that, I think I will pull my Smith & Wesson .357 and shoot her..
    Good luck to you..
    Andre
     
  32. tiffsatt

    tiffsatt Member

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    Andre,

    Please, please, please, stop the lude female remarks! Everyone does things differently, not just because of our gender!

    Thanks
     
  33. Taylor DO

    Taylor DO Member

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    Andre,

    I am married, in fact my wife is a third year emergency medicine resident.

    She is her own woman, I do not make decisions for her, we make decisions together. Neither one holds a position of being the dominant role model.

    I do not mean this rudely, but you do say some pretty nasty things about your wife and the direction you want her to take.

    Please, do not take this as an insult, but is this dream of being a family practice doc, yours or is it hers?

    The .357 comment I am sure was made as a jest, but on the internet that stuff can be spooky.

    I wish you guys the best!!

    If you are looking for some good on-line study guides for the USMLE I can provide you some information.

    Taylor
     
  34. Andre

    Andre Member

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    TIFFSATT:
    Relax, count to 10 and take a deep breath...
    We have a Romeo & Juliet affair after 10 blissful years of marriage..
    But she is also a drop-dead gorgeous nordic blonde !!
    Can't you understand a JOKE when you see one??
    Taylor DO:
    FP is 100% her choice.. I just try to give her Technical & Administrative back-up, so she can concentrate more on USMLE.
    She would welcome any online help tips. Please remember, she will take the live Kaplan course as well.
    Thanks again..
     
  35. wheatfarmer

    wheatfarmer Senior Member

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    Your remarks were NOT out of line...in fact they were funny! I think you are allowed to speak your mind aren't you...and it certainly wasn't insulting.
    Best of luck to you and your wife!
     
  36. Andre

    Andre Member

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    WheatFarmer:
    Thank you for the Back-up..
    It is true that some people rush with their comments (and sometimes insults!!) without even having an idea who that person really is!!
    I did notice in another post a few days ago: some people jumped on you too. BUT I liked what you had to say.
    I just love my wife, and I am doing everything I can to support her dream come true. After realizing that her transfer into a DO would not be possible; we decided to send her to clinicals wherever AUC has an opening.
    Also thanks for Taylor DO's concern on her USMLE performance. She got intimidated by MCAT and chickened out.. BUT that was more than 2-years ago. Now you should see her.. During basic sciences she continuously practised with BRS board simulator series; and always scored in 85-95% range.
    They say BRS is even a bit more difficult than the real thing.. if so, and after spending $2,000 on Kaplan; she SHOULD ace the Boards.
    If she flunks, I will NOT shoot her of course, but kiss her, console her, and motivate her to try again. (and what if I spank her just a bit on her beautiful gluteus? she likes it [​IMG] [​IMG]
    On the other hand, there ARE a few people on this forum that I wouldn't mind a bit performing a free testicletomy on..
    Good luck.. Peace..
     
  37. G Mangle

    G Mangle Junior Member

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    Andre,

    I think your wife will have a tough time getting credit for any work done. I graduated in podiatry from the same DO school I am now attending and must repeat all the classes even though I took them at the same school with same profs.

    Have her to try Southeast or Northeast Ohio. They definitely take transfers as well as Georgetown University.

    God Bless

    G
     
  38. If you go to one school for one or two years and decide to transfer to another DO school. Is that possible or very difficult? Anyone has transfered before? would the school you are currently attending be unwilling to let you go and therefore won't release your transcript or other information?
     
  39. Neurogirl

    Neurogirl Resident Extraordinaire

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    It's uncommon, but it happens. However, you must have a good reason for wanting to transfer and there must be an openning at the school you're trying to transfer to.
     
  40. Voyce

    Voyce New Member

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    Hi,

    Don't Want to Start a Debate here, but does anyone know MD schools that take DO transfers that would start in their 3rd year?
    If so, which institutions?

    Thanks.
     
  41. SuzyQ

    SuzyQ Senior Member

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    I dont know the answer to your question, but may I ask why you want to transfer going into your 3rd year?
     
  42. none

    none 1K Member

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    No. Do not plan this. In fact, it's really best not to remotely consider this.
     
  43. soon2bmd

    soon2bmd Junior Member

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    Hey,

    You might just want to try MSU on that one. Now, I really don't know what the policy is among med schools, but at Michigan State University, the DO students do their first two years of classes with the MD students (with the exception of clinical skills courses and maybe behavioral sciences). At a school like this, perhaps they are more receptive to MD transfers. Perhaps it even depends on the circumstances. Maybe a student goes through the first two years and decides they were all wrong about it. Whats the point of repeating the basic sciences anyways?

    Again, I don't know any of this for sure, its just a hypothesis. In all honesty, I don't think its very likely that one could make that type of transfer. But maybe its something to look into if you're serious about it.

    Don't know if that helps

    soon2bmd
     
  44. Dr/\/\om

    Dr/\/\om Senior Member

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    Do not enter a DO school planning on transferring to an MD school. For one thing, the chances of this happening are extremely slim. Also, it is pretty silly to *plan* something like this (and it won't go over very well with the schools).

    Go to the school that you will be content with graduating from.

    (IMHO)
     
  45. hotinwoof

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    Although I havent heard much of it happening it has happened before. Most are Carribeans trying to transfer back to the states. Think about it, if Carribean med students can transfer back to the mainland, why can't more qualified DOs doing the same thing? Well, they can. Second and third year are the years most transfer owe to the fact that the first 2 years in most schools teach the same thing....sort of like general ed requirements in college. A lot of MD schools have students who drop out or get kicked out of school, these spaces are left open to transfer students. I guess you already know the repercussions of asking this question. You will get answers here that due to their being stubborn and bullheaded and deceitful even. Their advice is due to pride and insecurity, afraid of the stigma they are inferior to their allopathic counterparts. Despite what the DO ethic preaches (there are a lot who do it because they believe the DO philosophy), yadda yadda yadda, the truth is "quite a few if not more" got here because they werent successful at entering a MD school, save for the carribean. Will a Carribean student turn down the chance for a mainland MD school? No, they are in the Carribean because they couldnt get in. It would be comical for one of them to say they went there because of the teachings there. Now, here come the flames. When you ask a question like this, the ever present "DO defensive" will shoot a volley your way for even thinking such a sacrilegious thought and branded a heretic. Goodluck with your studies and I dont find "planning" such a possibility as something impossible, implausible, or ridiculous. Most transfer students have good reasons for transferring, not just so a student won't feel inferior though...such as a program of study the school offers or a significant other is there and they want to be closer to them. Of course, I, myself don't give a damn whether it is a DO or MD school I come from anymore. You come out a doctor both ways. Have you seen a DO and MD doctor in the same field in the same room do anything different than the other in the same situations?
     
  46. Fenrezz

    Fenrezz AT Stills Worst Nightmare

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    On top of the odds against both schools allowing a transfer, I think you'd need a pretty compelling reason as well. For example, if your mom or dad were very ill, you could make the case that you'd like to transfer to a school close to home to spend time with them. Of course, if there were a DO school in the area, I imagine they would suggest transferring there instead.

    If your heart is set on going to MD school you have a better shot of applying each year to MD schools and hoping for an acceptance, rather than going to DO school and attempting a transfer. Or, as someone on here posted, you could always just sleep with the Dean's son or daughter (or both!).

    Of course, you could always just decide to finish it out and actually earn the DO degree despite all the stigma attached. Sure you'd be a second-class citizen, but as long as you can handle being cursed at, prodded with sticks, and having stones thrown at you by health care professionals, I'd go for it! :D
     
  47. jrich15

    jrich15 Member

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    This has already been discussed. Do a search for the post. I know a few different MD programs were discussed. However, you do have to have a very good reason why you want to transfer, ie family reasons, or have kicked butt on USMLE step 1 and be doing very well in your classes. Many of the MD programs penalize you for the transfer by making you repeat one or both years. I personally have not looked into it; just repeating what I have read.
     
  48. Dr. MAXY

    Dr. MAXY Senior Member

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    I won't give you any speech on transfering. I think a few MD schools accepts transfers from DO schools. I only remember Wayne State, and Georgetown.

    GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide to do.
     
  49. Dr. MAXY

    Dr. MAXY Senior Member

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    I think Wayne State and Georgetown accepts DO transfers. Check their web sites.
     
  50. starplayer

    starplayer Member

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  51. Jim Picotte

    Jim Picotte Senior Member

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    I'm a grad of MSU-CHM and although I didn't see anyone trasfer from the DO school to the MD school I'm sure it's not impossible. Additionally, only the first year basic science courses are taken by students from both CHM and COM. Year 2, we all have different courses and a few different ones in year one as well. Good luck.
     
  52. tln666

    tln666 Junior Member

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    I have the very same concerns and have been contemplating transfering to an MD program as soon as it permits. But the simple reason why I'm doing this was to have more doors open to me with good residencies especially competative ones like cardiothoracic surgery, and the like. That's not such a blasphemous thought against DO's is it? And what about these MD/DO programs? I think for someone to start out in DO school and to transfer carries the benefit of two worlds. But my question is has anyone out there successfully done it and what does it entail? A lot of brown-nosing?
    -Tammy
     

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