do vs md...does it really matter?

[mommy2three]

hello all,
i am considering a career as either a neonatologist or maternal fetal medicine specialist. i have found that there are currently practicing do's in both fields.
however, i wanted to get some input to those who were currently in residencies/fellowships as to if the do or md degree made a difference in residency or fellowship placement.
tia

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[dr. maybe]

OK, this is only my personal opinion, but I will bet you will find others who agree with me. If you are not currently in medical school, I would suggest you try to get into an allopathic school. If you were to change your mind and want to practice another kind of medicine, having an MD may help you exponentially. This is only my two cents. Obviously, if you are in an osteopathic program, keep going.

 

[AmyO]

OK, this is only my personal opinion, but I will bet you will find others who agree with me. If you are not currently in medical school, I would suggest you try to get into an allopathic school. If you were to change your mind and want to practice another kind of medicine, having an MD may help you exponentially. This is only my two cents. Obviously, if you are in an osteopathic program, keep going.

I'm gonna have to be the one to disagree. So if you're not in medical school and you provide no reasons why you believe going M.D. would serve you better than going D.O. in the field of neonatology, what purpose does your opinion serve? Pretty much the same purpose as me saying I think Dr. Pepper is better than Mountain Dew. Neonatology is a subspeciality of pediatrics. In order to become a neonatologist, one must first complete a pediatrics residency and then a neonatology fellowship. Obtaining a neonatology fellowship is much more dependent on how you did in your pediatrics residency (along with great recs) than where you went to medical school or whether you are an M.D. or a D.O. Both M.D.s and D.Os obtain competitive pediatrics residencies. Furthermore, there are few residencies if any that are closed to D.O.s; in fact, there are particular residencies (in almost all programs, neurosurg, derm, etc.) that are only open to D.O.s. One of the few fields I might recommend not going D.O. is radiation-oncology. It is a very competitive speciality with few spots available many going to those at research-intensive M.D. schools (think Hopkins, WashU, etc.) with phenomenal stats. The majority of M.D. students will not match rad-onc and very few D.O. students if any will match in a particular year.

 

[neutropenic]

If you wanna go to Boston Children's or the like going DO might give one a great amount of pause, outside this upper echelon, it shouldn't make that big a diff. I can't identify any DOs or Carib grads from Boston Children's list though I know in the past they have taken US citizen USyd grads and they do have IMGs from outside the Carib region.

Boston Children's residents by medical school

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Topics like this can be debated ad nauseam. I am going to keep this short and sweet.

If you believe in the DO philosophy, go DO. Sure, a US MD may help you a little bit when it comes down to it, but if you are a DO with excellent USMLE scores and great rotation evaluations, you are going to be just as competitive as a US MD candidate. There are DOs in every speciality and subspecialty.

It should also be underlined that many, many DOs had acceptances at both MD and DO schools and chose DO schools due to either the DO philosophy or the fact that they simply liked the school better. DOs should not automatically be equated with foreign MDs, who almost always lacked competitive credentials to gain acceptance to a US med school.

Lastly, it doesn't matter if you have a MD from a top 10 US med school, it's ultimately up to you to get a competitive residency.

 

[neutropenic]

...but if you are a DO with excellent USMLE scores and great rotation evaluations, you are going to be just as competitive as a US MD candidate. There are DOs in every speciality and subspecialty.

No, you won't. Not for every specialty. Some flat out will not consider DOs even if you are ranked 1/150 in your class and have USMLEs of 269/269. Some specialties have 1-2 DOs per year if any in allo programs (rad onc, e.g.). You can probably kiss allo NS goodbye also. As for peds, I can't identify a single DO at the Boston Combined (Children's/BMC) program and I doubt this is for lack of wanting to go there as it's one of the best programs in the country.

Lastly, it doesn't matter if you have a MD from a top 10 US med school, it's ultimately up to you to get a competitive residency.

But being a Duke or UCSF grad never hurt anyone. DO is definitely solid option, just be sure you understand the consequences of whatever path you choose (e.g. most likely not being able to get allopathic rad onc or a peds spot at the Boston combined program no matter how well you do in school by going DO).

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Nationally, there are plenty of DOs in every speciality and subspecialty you can imagine. Also keep in mind that only about 6% of physicians are DOs, so statistically there are going to be fewer DOs in each allopathic residency.

Sure, there are programs that are a bit predjudice when it comes to DOs. But, believe it or not, not everybody wants to be in the Boston Combined (Children's/BMC) program and there are plenty of other excellent pediatric residencies that treat DOs equally.

In addition, as a DO you now have access to not only ACGME residencies but also AOA residencies. There are endless peds residencies in the AOA with specialities. And guess what? They don't accept MDs. But DOs can apply to ACGME residencies.

 

[neutropenic]

Much of this may be true, but to say that you will be just as competitive with a great performance coming from a DO school vis-a-vis a great allo candidate is a misnomer. Not everyone wants to be at Boston Children's but do you really believe there wasn't a single osteopathic candidate who was interested in the program?

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Much of this may be true, but to say that you will be just as competitive with a great performance coming from a DO school vis-a-vis a great allo candidate is a misnomer. Not everyone wants to be at Boston Children's but do you really believe there wasn't a single osteopathic candidate who was interested in the program?

I agree that there are certain programs that are predjudice against DOs. However, they are becoming fewer due to AOAs lawsuits, etc.

My point is that you can plenty of DOs in any medical specialty, and there is always a means for a DO to become whichever type of physician they chose.

 

[daelroy]

If you wanna go to Boston Children's or the like going DO might give one a great amount of pause, outside this upper echelon, it shouldn't make that big a diff. I can't identify any DOs or Carib grads from Boston Children's list though I know in the past they have taken US citizen USyd grads and they do have IMGs from outside the Carib region.

Boston Children's residents by medical school

The list you provided was for the 2005/2006 year. To extrapolate that and assume Boston Childrens has never taken a DO is purely speculative. Just because you can't "recall" a DO in their program doesn't mean one never existed there. For example, CHOP is an equally competitive if not slightly more reputable program and they have taken DO's.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

hello all,
i am considering a career as either a neonatologist or maternal fetal medicine specialist. i have found that there are currently practicing do's in both fields.
however, i wanted to get some input to those who were currently in residencies/fellowships as to if the do or md degree made a difference in residency or fellowship placement.
tia

I often don't know if the doctors I deal with on a daily basis are MD's or DO's, went to med school in the US or elsewhere, or broke 250 on their USMLE Step 1 exam. I am prettty certain that the families of the babies we care for are unaware of these although I do tell each family how I scored on the neonatal board exam (j/k). I generally don't mention my anatomy grades

However, the OP asked a specific question that is fair to consider. I would say that there is very little reason to choose to go DO vs MD related to the ability to obtain a fellowship in neonatology. This has nothing to do with whether one wants to go to Boston Children's/CHOP for residency. These residencies are not necessary to obtain excellent neonatal fellowship acceptances.

It seems more reasonable to look at the medical school one wishes to attend in terms of exposure to the field of interest. For example, do they have an NICU rotation in the core or as an elective? If not, how easy is it to do these as external rotations? What about other pedi electives, etc? These factors, as well as one's view of the overall aspects of medical education provided both by the specific school and the educational philosophy should guide ones choice of school.

Regards

OBP

 

[Dr Trek 1]

I often don't know if the doctors I deal with on a daily basis are MD's or DO's, went to med school in the US or elsewhere, or broke 250 on their USMLE Step 1 exam. I am prettty certain that the families of the babies we care for are unaware of these although I do tell each family how I scored on the neonatal board exam (j/k). I generally don't mention my anatomy grades

However, the OP asked a specific question that is fair to consider. I would say that there is very little reason to choose to go DO vs MD related to the ability to obtain a fellowship in neonatology. This has nothing to do with whether one wants to go to Boston Children's/CHOP for residency. These residencies are not necessary to obtain excellent neonatal fellowship acceptances.

It seems more reasonable to look at the medical school one wishes to attend in terms of exposure to the field of interest. For example, do they have an NICU rotation in the core or as an elective? If not, how easy is it to do these as external rotations? What about other pedi electives, etc? These factors, as well as one's view of the overall aspects of medical education provided both by the specific school and the educational philosophy should guide ones choice of school.

Regards

OBP

Well said

 

[AmyO]

Well said

How did this whole thread get changed to revolve around Boston Children's???? The OP didn't say anything about Boston Children's! There are certainly other places to do neonatology fellowships. The OP was asking whether DO/MD mattered in terms of being a neonatologist. No. Ok, moving on......

 

[maugham]

c

 

[neutropenic]

I am not obsessed with the BU/Harvard peds program. I am just saying that the best fellowships tend to go to pediatricians who go to these kinds of places (like the BU/Harvard program) and for whatever reason these "snob" programs aren't enamored with DOs.

I am just trying to say there is a difference and to say there is NO difference would be disingenuous. Getting a great neonat fellowship will be easier coming from BU/Harvard (and its peer group) than from a small community program. And getting to BU/Harvard will be easier coming from an allo, preferably "name" allo school. I am not saying that you can't get a fellowship from lesser known programs.

I am all for whatever school a candidate chooses, I just don't want them to think it will be an easy journey from a DO school to a top peds residency which helps in getting a much sought after fellowship.

BTW, MSU is a college of human medicine, not osteopathic medicine as you probably realized on your own.

http://humanmedicine.msu.edu/

 

[Dr Trek 1]

BTW, MSU is a college of human medicine, not osteopathic medicine as you probably realized on your own.

http://humanmedicine.msu.edu/

Just for the record MSU has BOTH an osteopathic and an allopathic medical school.

Osteopathic school's website: http://www.com.msu.edu/
Allopathic school's website (which they call "Human Medicine"): http://humanmedicine.msu.edu/

 

[DOnut]

But being a Duke or UCSF grad never hurt anyone. DO is definitely solid option, just be sure you understand the consequences of whatever path you choose (e.g. most likely not being able to get allopathic rad onc or a peds spot at the Boston combined program no matter how well you do in school by going DO).

Rad Onc is extremely difficult to obtain regardless where you go to medical school, however it is not impossible...not even for a DO

http://www.upstate.edu/radonc/faculty.php?EmpID=MWAFIUGlCh

PS- she's not the only one, I'm lazy.

 

[DOnut]

oops didn't see how long this thread has been dead. OK, going back to my EM forum.

 

[Zerosixjt]

FYI this came from the Childrens Hospital Boston Web site

http://www.childrenshospital.org/cfapps/research/data_admin/Site274/mainpageS274P0.html

 

[ProZackMI]

hello all,
i am considering a career as either a neonatologist or maternal fetal medicine specialist. i have found that there are currently practicing do's in both fields.
however, i wanted to get some input to those who were currently in residencies/fellowships as to if the do or md degree made a difference in residency or fellowship placement.
tia

No, it shouldn't matter whether you're an MD or DO. Some of the best physicians I know are DOs. My own PCP is a DO and I'm an MD. I think DO's make better FPs and based on their training, make excellent pediatricians. Not everyone is looking for Ivy residencies or fellowships. At my psych residency at U Mich, we had both MDs and DOs. Most good programs would rather have DO grads than FMGs or non-US MDs from some Carribean program.

 

[tkim]

Just a quick point - maternal-fetal medicine is a subspecialty of OB/GYN. So the OP might want to post this question in that forum as well.

 

[emtji]

so pediatrics isn't a competitive specialty, but getting into children's boston or philly is going to be a little harder, regardless of your degree. similarly, neonatology isn't a competitive fellowship.

there is still a small bias in favor or md's over do's. so all things being equal, an MD has a better shot at getting int children's boston/philly than a DO. that said, Md/Do neonatologists have pretty similar job opportunities and salary post residency.

 

[The Med-Peds Dude]

Rad Onc is extremely difficult to obtain regardless where you go to medical school, however it is not impossible...not even for a DO

http://www.upstate.edu/radonc/faculty.php?EmpID=MWAFIUGlCh

PS- she's not the only one, I'm lazy.

Never say never....