DO vs. MD school facilities

[Alfalfa Bill]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Interviewing at a couple MD and DO schools, and from what I've read and heard from other applicants, the facilities at DO schools are a lot newer and nicer (particularly DMU, wow). Has anyone else noticed this, or is this just due to my limited scope?

 

[slim78]

I work at an MD school but I'm going to attend a DO school.

I would DEFINITELY say that the facilities at my DO school are MUCH nicer (and newer) than the ones at the MD school I work at.

The only advantage my MD school has is that there is a hospital attached.

 

[Beau Geste]

Interviewing at a couple MD and DO schools, and from what I've read and heard from other applicants, the facilities at DO schools are a lot newer and nicer (particularly DMU, wow). Has anyone else noticed this, or is this just due to my limited scope?

DMU does have nice facilities - I interviewed there last Sep.

I think it just depends on the school, not MD vs. DO. Some schools have newer equipment/remodels, and some could really use it and that goes for both MD and DO.

 

[gasapple]

The only advantage my MD school has is that there is a hospital attached.

For the record, an adjoining hospital is not consistently an "advantage" across the board; perhaps the statement is true based solely on logistics.

I think it just depends on the school, not MD vs. DO. Some schools have newer equipment/remodels, and some could really use it and that goes for both MD and DO.

I think I'd be inclined to agree.

 

[MossPoh]

Yea. It just depends on the school regardless of MD/DO. If you look at newer MD schools they tend to have very nice facilities as well. FSU has a great little building with a bunch of new buildings surrounded it. I kind of sit around i the little coffee shop there all the time. The "library" is a little tiny. Many allopathic schools are so entrenched in a city or university type area that it is really difficult to just start anew without detaching yourself from that point.

I haven't seen the new NYMC campus, but the school USED to be on fifth avenue right across from central park. Fitting their needs involved moving out of the city. Although, it'd be really cool if they were still on fifth ave. I think it was also a safety thin. At the time, it was not unheard of to get robbed in central park on a fairly regular basis. People would even steal car batteries and hub caps if you left your car parked outside at night. (Eyewitness report courtesy of my dad)

 

[EEL08]

DMU does have nice facilities - I interviewed there last Sep.

I think it just depends on the school, not MD vs. DO. Some schools have newer equipment/remodels, and some could really use it and that goes for both MD and DO.

I agree. The DO school I'm "at" doesn't have as nice and new facilities as the DO school I will be attending in the fall. Of course that's just my personal opinion.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

The facilities at DMU are about as nice as they get.

I'm pretty sure TCOM is about to build a bunch of new ****. I know they're rolling in money.

There are some pretty sweet MD facilities out there though.

 

[prionsRbad]

I thought DCOM's facilities were up there and comparable to DMU's. I wish DCOM had a surgical skills lab though, DMU's is pretty sweet. 👍

 

[Orthodoc40]

I think UNECOM's facilities are about equal to DMU's believe it or not.

But in general, OP, I have to agree that for the one's I've seen (which are no where near all) the DO schools have much better pre-clinical facilities. Note the term, "pre-clinical".

 

[JaggerPlate]

Keep in mind that a lot of the schools have nice facilities because the schools are brand new. Don't let this be a huge deciding factor in where you go. Solid rotation sites > nice facilities in most situations (from what I hear, I'm just a pre med ... take my advice as you may)

 

[EEL08]

The facilities at DMU are about as nice as they get.

I'm pretty sure TCOM is about to build a bunch of new ****. I know they're rolling in money.

There are some pretty sweet MD facilities out there though.

The new building(s) will definitely be nice. The old buildings aren't bad or anything but I don't think they can compare to AZCOM's. I'm not sure when the new buildings are supposed to be finished though. They've been tearing down the hospital where I volunteered. :cry:

 

[nascardoc]

I thought DCOM's facilities were up there and comparable to DMU's. I wish DCOM had a surgical skills lab though, DMU's is pretty sweet. 👍

Don't forget about the Surgical Simulation Suite at DCOM

 

[Instatewaiter]

Interviewing at a couple MD and DO schools, and from what I've read and heard from other applicants, the facilities at DO schools are a lot newer and nicer (particularly DMU, wow). Has anyone else noticed this, or is this just due to my limited scope?

The classroom and preclinical facilities that you will be sitting in during your first 2 years are of very little consequence. All you really need is a room, some seats and maybe a dry erase board and a projector.

The facilities you should be worried about are the ones that are near impossible to get a grip on during your interview- the clinical ones.

 

[prionsRbad]

Don't forget about the Surgical Simulation Suite at DCOM

Wha???? I guess I missed that on the tour!! Awesome! 😀

 

[nascardoc]

Wha???? I guess I missed that on the tour!! Awesome! 😀

Yep! We will have a total of 6 simulators (we have 2 right now). We will have simulated surgery, trauma, peds, ob/gyn (sim-woman gives birth to a sim-baby 😱), and 2 others (1 of which might be another trauma and another anesthesia, but I don't remember). We even have a scrub room we have to use before we enter either the surgical suite or the ob/gyn suite. We will also be working in the rooms along side the nursing students and PA's (in 2009) to simulate real world conditions. But don't worry, we won't be doing a lot of sharing with them b/c the nursing students have their own simulators.

 

[nascardoc]

The classroom and preclinical facilities that you will be sitting in during your first 2 years are of very little consequence. All you really need is a room, some seats and maybe a dry erase board and a projector.

The facilities you should be worried about are the ones that are near impossible to get a grip on during your interview- the clinical ones.

True to a point (about the basic science years), if you have a school that has technology to help you for 3rd and 4th years, then that is a plus.

 

[prionsRbad]

Yep! We will have a total of 6 simulators (we have 2 right now). We will have simulated surgery, trauma, peds, ob/gyn (sim-woman gives birth to a sim-baby 😱), and 2 others (1 of which might be another trauma and another anesthesia, but I don't remember). We even have a scrub room we have to use before we enter either the surgical suite or the ob/gyn suite. We will also be working in the rooms along side the nursing students and PA's (in 2009) to simulate real world conditions. But don't worry, we won't be doing a lot of sharing with them b/c the nursing students have their own simulators.

Wow thanks for the info! My tour guides totally missed that BTW.

Also, *clears throat* what is this I'm reading about bi*ch slapping cows? Watch it buddy . . . you might get Mad Cow Disease if you try to slap this cow!

 

[nascardoc]

Wow thanks for the info! My tour guides totally missed that BTW.

Also, *clears throat* what is this I'm reading about bi*ch slapping cows? Watch it buddy . . . you might get Mad Cow Disease if you try to slap this cow!

I'm sorry you guys missed that...thats weird as that should be the highlight of the tour (at least for most people).


And thats right, I b!tch slap cows....right into hamburger!!! But you seem cool, I just might spare you yet. 😉 😛

 

[RockfordWF]

Interviewing at a couple MD and DO schools, and from what I've read and heard from other applicants, the facilities at DO schools are a lot newer and nicer (particularly DMU, wow). Has anyone else noticed this, or is this just due to my limited scope?

There is bias in comparison of MD and DO schools, because most of the DO schools are new and most of the MD schools are old. If you look at an equal number of both schools, you will see many more new DO schools.

For a good comparison, Texas Tech-El Paso is opening up a new MD campus next year. It blows away most DO campuses I've been to. The location is questionable, however.

 

[MDallTHEway]

Interviewing at a couple MD and DO schools, and from what I've read and heard from other applicants, the facilities at DO schools are a lot newer and nicer (particularly DMU, wow). Has anyone else noticed this, or is this just due to my limited scope?

come on.. i think DO and MD schools all have great facilities. but having an attached hospital is VERY important

 

[JaggerPlate]

come on.. i think DO and MD schools all have great facilities. but having an attached hospital is VERY important

Thank you for the relevant and new insight 'MDallTHEway.' Enjoy the DO boards!!!

 

[MacGyver]

Whoever said that having an attached hospital is only a minor point doenst know what they are talking about.

Attached hospitals = the med students get first dibs on all clinical rotations there.

No attached hospitals = you ahve to battle it out for everybody and their brother from the 30 other DO programs (more to come) who dont guarantee any clinical slots and force the med students to go across mutiple states to the meet the requirements.

Give me a ****ty pre-clinical building any day of the week over having to set up my own rotations in 10 different states. You need to ask yourself why you are paying these schools 20-40k per year in the clinical years considering they provide essentially zero services for you.

 

[MDallTHEway]

Whoever said that having an attached hospital is only a minor point doenst know what they are talking about.

Attached hospitals = the med students get first dibs on all clinical rotations there.

No attached hospitals = you ahve to battle it out for everybody and their brother from the 30 other DO programs (more to come) who dont guarantee any clinical slots and force the med students to go across mutiple states to the meet the requirements.

Give me a ****ty pre-clinical building any day of the week over having to set up my own rotations in 10 different states. You need to ask yourself why you are paying these schools 20-40k per year in the clinical years considering they provide essentially zero services for you.

huh. i actually attend an MD school in norCAL and had no idea there were schools that would make you hunt for your own rotations. that's very disappointing. It seems like, if a school wants to be accredited then they should have all relevant facilities in-house

 

[tlvuong4]

huh. i actually attend an MD school in norCAL and had no idea there were schools that would make you hunt for your own rotations. that's very disappointing. It seems like, if a school wants to be accredited then they should have all relevant facilities in-house

And that's the problem with most of the DO schools, they don't have in-house facilities or attached hospitals. The only one's that do are the state funded DO schools like Oklahoma State, Michigan State, and North Texas.

 

[MDallTHEway]

Thank you for the relevant and new insight 'MDallTHEway.' Enjoy the DO boards!!!

good luck to you to my friend.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Whoever said that having an attached hospital is only a minor point doenst know what they are talking about.

Attached hospitals = the med students get first dibs on all clinical rotations there.

No attached hospitals = you ahve to battle it out for everybody and their brother from the 30 other DO programs (more to come) who dont guarantee any clinical slots and force the med students to go across mutiple states to the meet the requirements.

Give me a ****ty pre-clinical building any day of the week over having to set up my own rotations in 10 different states. You need to ask yourself why you are paying these schools 20-40k per year in the clinical years considering they provide essentially zero services for you.

Not to mention that having an oncampus hospital allows you to get clinical experiences during M1 and M2. Although its not essential, it at least makes the education feel more relevant and integrated. I'm also going to be very familiar with the hospital by the time 3rd year rolls around.

 

[Just Joshin]

For the record, an adjoining hospital is not consistently an "advantage" across the board; perhaps the statement is true based solely on logistics.

I can't think of a situation where having an adjoining hospital would be a disadvantage. Please explain.

 

[digitlnoize]

I can't think of a situation where having an adjoining hospital would be a disadvantage. Please explain.

There are a few good arguments for not having an attached hospital.

To me, the best argument is that you get experience working in many different types of facilities. You have the choice of doing some rotations at academic hospitals, but others you can do at smaller community hospitals.

This is particularly helpful in rotations like surgery, where at the smaller community programs you'll get to do ALOT more than you would at a teaching hospital, where you are behind all the residents and other students.

Different facilities also have different procedures. This is good practice for the real world. Is it better to spend 2 clinical years, then 3-6 years of residency at the same place, get used to that system, then move to a new place with a new system. I feel it's better to get a "taste" of multiple systems. Less culture shock when you move. Btw, this phenomenon is largely responsible for the decreased amount of incest you see among academic programs today (they take less of their own students for residency).

Another good argument is that you get to travel and check out places for residency. This can be especially important if you have a family to consider, as many DO's do. You can spend a month in a given area and decide if you and your family will like living there for the next 4-5 years. Also, you can experience the +/-'s of the program to help make a more informed rank list.

Not that you can't travel at allo schools, but most DO schools give you more electives, and not that many MD's do that many away rotations...for whatever reason.

 

[Instatewaiter]

There are a few good arguments for not having an attached hospital.

To me, the best argument is that you get experience working in many different types of facilities. You have the choice of doing some rotations at academic hospitals, but others you can do at smaller community hospitals.

This is particularly helpful in rotations like surgery, where at the smaller community programs you'll get to do ALOT more than you would at a teaching hospital, where you are behind all the residents and other students.

Different facilities also have different procedures. This is good practice for the real world. Is it better to spend 2 clinical years, then 3-6 years of residency at the same place, get used to that system, then move to a new place with a new system. I feel it's better to get a "taste" of multiple systems. Less culture shock when you move. Btw, this phenomenon is largely responsible for the decreased amount of incest you see among academic programs today (they take less of their own students for residency).

Another good argument is that you get to travel and check out places for residency. This can be especially important if you have a family to consider, as many DO's do. You can spend a month in a given area and decide if you and your family will like living there for the next 4-5 years. Also, you can experience the +/-'s of the program to help make a more informed rank list.

Not that you can't travel at allo schools, but most DO schools give you more electives, and not that many MD's do that many away rotations...for whatever reason.

The volume and complexity of cases that you see in a large hospital dwarf what you see in community hospitals. You just wont see certain cases at small community hospitals cause they get sent to the big boys. You're stuck doing the ho-hum standard cases. Furthermore, most schools with attached hospitals have had those rotations there for multiple decades, and in some instances centuries so all the kinks are worked out. Instead of having 5 or 10 students go through the hospital a year, they get 150. So not only do they have the volume and complexity of cases needed for a quality education, they are also well equipped to handle the didactics. Instead of just tacking on some students to an already working hospital as an afterthought, the students are integrated into the structure of the hospital.

I dont know where you are getting the idea of academic incest being dead because it most definitely is not. This is great if you are a so-so candidate for a given field but still want to match. Again, doesnt really happen if you dont have an attached hospital.

Different facilities having different procedures/protocols is not an asset as a student. Instead of only having to waste your time learning one system in that first rotation (how they keep the charts, what exact tests a lab runs, which cultures are standard for the hospital's lab, what computer system can do, how to get around) you have to keep learning new systems and new protocols. You waste time you could have spent learning medicine on learning the beaurocracy of each hospital.

You have ample time to travel and do away rotations during 4th year. Better then when you are competent enough to look good instead of during 3rd year when you are still a bumbling fool. Not that many MDs do away rotations? Did you just make that up?

I see no benefits to a school not having an attached hospital.

 

[scpod]

The volume and complexity of cases that you see in a large hospital dwarf what you see in community hospitals. You just wont see certain cases at small community hospitals cause they get sent to the big boys. You're stuck doing the ho-hum standard cases.....

Not entirely true. Those 200 bed hospitals in rural America that are the only health center for many miles attract an awful lot of pathology because the population doesn't receive adequate medical care to begin with. Wanna see some cool genetic problems? Go out to Podunk where 1st couzins marry and look at the pathology you'll get.

So not only do they have the volume and complexity of cases needed for a quality education, they are also well equipped to handle the didactics....

The majority of medical students complain that they don't learn crap from lectures and learn mostly on their own. What makes you think they'll suddenly learn medicine better now by having a few extra hours of lectures a week?

How many surgery rotations are you gonna do where you get to actually open and close the patients with the attending next to you showing you how to do it? You won't be doing it when you are in a place with a general surgery residency. But a lot of my classmates are doing it right now. There is something to be said for just you and an attending being there.

Different facilities having different procedures/protocols is not an asset as a student. Instead of only having to waste your time learning one system in that first rotation (how they keep the charts, what exact tests a lab runs, which cultures are standard for the hospital's lab, what computer system can do, how to get around) you have to keep learning new systems and new protocols. You waste time you could have spent learning medicine on learning the beaurocracy of each hospital....

If your only exposure is to one system for two years then you don't learn much about how things in general work. It's good to experience life in different ways because by learning little bits and pieces here and there you can better understand how other people do things. You get to take what you like and discard what you don't like. You might actually learn something that will make your own practice easier. Besides, 3rd and 4th year aren't really about learning "medicine." They are about learning how to deal with patients and the system. You learn most of "medicine" during residency.

I see no benefits to a school not having an attached hospital.

I see no benefits to believing that your way is the only way. I DO, however, see benefits to both systems. For some people, the attached hospital is the only way to go. Some of the folks I went to undergrad with are more than happy to go to one of our in-state schools, do rotations in the attached hospital, do a residency in the same place and stay there as an attending. I couldn't handle that. I need to get around. When 89% of the hospitals in the US are non-teaching hospitals of 400 beds or less, then that's probably the situation most of us are going to end up practicing under eventually. It doesn't hurt to have some exposure to them. I'm doing all my cores at the same place, but I'm going to a lot of other places too-- just to see what's available.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Not entirely true. Those 200 bed hospitals in rural America that are the only health center for many miles attract an awful lot of pathology because the population doesn't receive adequate medical care to begin with. Wanna see some cool genetic problems? Go out to Podunk where 1st couzins marry and look at the pathology you'll get.

Sure you'll see a lot of people with sepsis or CHD complications but any big case will be airlifted from that small hospital to a large center. You miss out if you are stuck in the small center.

Sweet, genetic problems 🙄

Anyway, do you think that rare genetic problem is going to be more often handled by the primary care guy in the small hospital or a medical geneticist at a large center?

The majority of medical students complain that they don't learn crap from lectures and learn mostly on their own. What makes you think they'll suddenly learn medicine better now by having a few extra hours of lectures a week?

Not having didactics in clinical years is a major problem. If we didnt need teachers everyone could just read the book and be a doctor.

If your only exposure is to one system for two years then you don't learn much about how things in general work. It's good to experience life in different ways because by learning little bits and pieces here and there you can better understand how other people do things. You get to take what you like and discard what you don't like. You might actually learn something that will make your own practice easier. Besides, 3rd and 4th year aren't really about learning "medicine." They are about learning how to deal with patients and the system. You learn most of "medicine" during residency.

You missed my point entirely.
You will learn how 'things work' from any hospital. What you dont have to do in an attached hospital is waste your time figuring out the intricacies of each new hospital you are sent to. This is not stuff that gives you perspective in medicine; it is crap that wastes your time and detracts from your education.

This has nothing to do with- taking what you like and discarding what you dont. You have no control over this stuff. You know what to order you just dont know exactly how to ask for it. How you ask for the tests will change based on the hospital you are in.

Your lab core is going to do different sets of labs for a given request. You have to know that your lab isnt going to culture for Campylobacter when you ask for a certain culture but mine might. Getting this knowledge out of the way only once saves time, adds to your education and allows you to focus on the medicine.

It takes you a few weeks to adapt to a new hospital. By the time you get your bearings you will be shipped off to the next site where you have to start it all over again.

When 89% of the hospitals in the US are non-teaching hospitals of 400 beds or less, then that's probably the situation most of us are going to end up practicing under eventually. It doesn't hurt to have some exposure to them. I'm doing all my cores at the same place, but I'm going to a lot of other places too-- just to see what's available.

Many people will be working in the rural midwest in towns with populations in the hundreds. That doesnt mean that is where training should be. Training should take place where you will see a tremendous volume. Otherwise you will never be exposed to a large variety of disease states.

 

[bioteach]

INSTATEWAITER - for a allo med student you sure spend alot of time on the pre-osteo board telling us how bad our education is going to be.

 

[digitlnoize]

I dont know where you are getting the idea of academic incest being dead because it most definitely is not.

I never said it was dead. Read my post again. I said it was in decline. It's certainly alive and kicking at MCV. 🙄 Take a stroll through any MCV department, and you'll see most of their residents went to med school there too. This is no longer true at many schools in the country. It's an old guard system on it's way out. Your school is just behind the curve.

Not that many MDs do away rotations? Did you just make that up?

Nope. It's well known that DO's do more away rotations than MD's. This is often touted by MD's (including yourself in your two posts here) that staying put in one place is a benefit of an allopathic education.

 

[Instatewaiter]

INSTATEWAITER - for a allo med student you sure spend alot of time on the pre-osteo board telling us how bad our education is going to be.

Has nothing to do with MD/DO. An MD school without an attached hospital will have the same downfalls.

I never said it was dead. Read my post again. I said it was in decline. It's certainly alive and kicking at MCV. 🙄 Take a stroll through any MCV department, and you'll see most of their residents went to med school there too. This is no longer true at many schools in the country. It's an old guard system on it's way out. Your school is just behind the curve.

If being behind the curve means having a better opportunity to match into a good program then it must suck to go to a 'forward thinking school.'

 

[JaggerPlate]

If being behind the curve means having a better opportunity to match into a good program then it must suck to go to a 'forward thinking school.'

Ehh ... no need to be offensive and I don't think anyone would ever say that having an attached hospital is a disadvantage. I think the biggest issue here is people are thinking DO schools without attached hospitals are being lumped together as inferior when a school like PCOM is one of the most respected and does just fine without one. People are going to be naturally defensive about these types of discussions especially because your an allo student. I personally don't think you are trying to be (I hope), but it's just the nature of the conversation. People need to remember that there are also certain MD schools (at least two I can think of off the top of my head) that don't have an attached hospital, so these statements shouldn't be taken as specific jabs at DO schools.

 

[digitlnoize]

If being behind the curve means having a better opportunity to match into a good program then it must suck to go to a 'forward thinking school.'

It's not about a good program vs a bad program. It's also not about ease of matching. It's about doing what is best for your career and future patients. Gaining your entire medical education at one institution leads to a less diverse experience (both in the methodology of the institution and the pathology of the region) than being educated at multiple institutions.

Yes, MCV is a Big Fancy Hospital. It's also in an Urban City. So are many other hospitals around the country. I bet you $100 you'll see things you'd never see at MCV at a hospital in Chicago, and vice versa. It might be a good idea to think about seeing some of those things.

Also, don't fool yourself into thinking that Richmond is a bigger city than it is. It likes to pretend it's all grown up, but it's really not. Go to NYC, Chicago, LA...you'll see faaaaar more there then in RVA.

You certainly don't have to. Many physicians come out of inbred residencies just fine, less well rounded, but fine. Me, I would prefer to have the experiences, vs. having an "easy match." But, that's just my opinion.

 

[CorpusERdoc]

I never said it was dead. Read my post again. I said it was in decline. It's certainly alive and kicking at MCV. 🙄 Take a stroll through any MCV department, and you'll see most of their residents went to med school there too. This is no longer true at many schools in the country. It's an old guard system on it's way out. Your school is just behind the curve.



Nope. It's well known that DO's do more away rotations than MD's. This is often touted by MD's (including yourself in your two posts here) that staying put in one place is a benefit of an allopathic education.

Your argument is really moot, since there are plenty of DO schools that have university hospitals & almost all rotations can be done there.

Example: OSU-COM

 

[digitlnoize]

Your argument is really moot, since there are plenty of DO schools that have university hospitals & almost all rotations can be done there.

Example: OSU-COM

Just because some DO schools have hospitals attached, doesn't mean the argument is moot. It still applies to those DO (and MD) schools without attached hospitals.

The facts are that most MD schools have hospitals attached and most DO schools do not. Just like every other area where MD's and DO's meet, there is a certain amount of overlap.

It's like OMM. Some DO's use it. Some do not. Some MD's take CE courses and use it. Some do not.

I think both types of institutions give a good medical education, and each has their advantages and disadvantages. As ISW has pointed out, there are advantages to staying in one place throughout your training. My point is simply that there are also disadvantages to this, and that there are advantages to the alternative approach (moving around during training).

Both systems produce good doctors, and it's up to each person to decide which system is best for them.

Can we move on now?

 

[JKM1]

Many, if not most of the DO schools are very cheap (I don't mean inexpensive....)
For an example, most of them make you buy a laptop. They allow the cost of it in the loan or as in DMU's case, it's included in the tuition. Either case, if it breaks down you are responsible for fixing it, up keeping it etc....and getting copies is your responsibility. You pay for everything computer related.

The MD schools I went to had huge computer labs. So, if you wanted to use a laptop of your own, you could. But, if you wanted to use the school's computer, you could as well. There were very competent lab assistants to help you (not just some undergrad dude) and print outs were free (included in the tuition) up to 100 for b/w and 20 for color each day.

It's amazing that the DO schools charge so much yet provide so much less than the MD counterparts. I'm not even referring to the typical MD vs DO stuff here. The only DO school I saw with a computer lab was CCOM. Perhaps others which I didn't interview at have them. But, most of the ones I interviewed at (Western, AZCOM, DMU) didn't have them.

On a side note, Western's tuition rose by 10K in 5 years. Yet, they have no computer labs, they charge you 5 cents a copy of print outs, you have to use your own computer and have NO option of using the school's, they have no gym (and only reimburse you $100/yr to join an outside gym)......where is the justification for this sort of a rip off?

 

[JaggerPlate]

Many, if not most of the DO schools are very cheap (I don't mean inexpensive....)
For an example, most of them make you buy a laptop. They allow the cost of it in the loan or as in DMU's case, it's included in the tuition. Either case, if it breaks down you are responsible for fixing it, up keeping it etc....and getting copies is your responsibility. You pay for everything computer related.

The MD schools I went to had huge computer labs. So, if you wanted to use a laptop of your own, you could. But, if you wanted to use the school's computer, you could as well. There were very competent lab assistants to help you (not just some undergrad dude) and print outs were free (included in the tuition) up to 100 for b/w and 20 for color each day.

It's amazing that the DO schools charge so much yet provide so much less than the MD counterparts. I'm not even referring to the typical MD vs DO stuff here. The only DO school I saw with a computer lab was CCOM. Perhaps others which I didn't interview at have them. But, most of the ones I interviewed at (Western, AZCOM, DMU) didn't have them.

On a side note, Western's tuition rose by 10K in 5 years. Yet, they have no computer labs, they charge you 5 cents a copy of print outs, you have to use your own computer and have NO option of using the school's, they have no gym (and only reimburse you $100/yr to join an outside gym)......where is the justification for this sort of a rip off?

People have to buy laptops that they would regardless AND pay $.05 cents for a copy at the 3 DO schools you visited????? Holy ****?? Did anyone know about this? Man sooo not worth it

Not trying to be a jerk, but this is just nitpicking. People have various, various reasons for choosing certain schools, but not going to a school because of $.05 copies is a little weak imo.

 

[gasapple]

Not trying to be a jerk, but this is just nitpicking. People have various, various reasons for choosing certain schools, but not going to a school because of $.05 copies is a little weak imo.

Ha-ha! No doubt! 👍

Tuition hikes are not at all unique to DO schools. Check your in-state med school for tuition rate increases - you'll witness the trend there, too. Education is becoming more and more expensive as state ear-marked funding wanes; check Brian Williams on NBC Nightly News (Cliff Notes) for recent segments regarding tuition hikes across the nation.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I never said it was dead. Read my post again. I said it was in decline. It's certainly alive and kicking at MCV. 🙄 Take a stroll through any MCV department, and you'll see most of their residents went to med school there too. This is no longer true at many schools in the country. It's an old guard system on it's way out. Your school is just behind the curve.

I still have no idea where you are getting the idea that academic incest is dead

Here is some match data from this year. These are the only schools I counted
UCLA- 45 matched at UCLA
UTSW- 58 matched at UTSW
Stanfor-31
Yale-20
VCU-29
UCSF- 49
Harvard- 20 (only MGH)

you were right on the money digitl. Apparently Harvard, Yale, UCSF, UCLA, Stanford and UTSW are all behind the curve too...

Yet, they have no computer labs, they charge you 5 cents a copy of print outs, you have to use your own computer and have NO option of using the school's, they have no gym (and only reimburse you $100/yr to join an outside gym)......where is the justification for this sort of a rip off?

First if there are no computer labs, how do you print stuff?

Second- 5 cents a page is really cheap.

Third- even at allo schools you pay for your printing privileges. Maybe not ostensibly but it is worked into your 'school fees' so in the end you pay for it. I assure you it is more than 5 cents a page.

 

[JKM1]

In the end this is how thing break down between the MD schools and the DO schools ie Western

MD schools I interviewed at
low 30K/yr tuition
Computer lab use + free print outs (computers break down? The school fixes them and maintains them)
school gym
great campuses/college feel

DO schools ie Western
low 40K/yr tuition (10K increase in 5 yrs)
No computer lab but they supposedly have printers you can use to print stuff out with and yeah 5 cents is cheap but not compared to free print outs at MD schools.....plus you don't have the choice of using school's computer if your computer malfunctions.......no cafeteria....located on a train track..
No school gym
Crappy campus built on a rail road track/doesn't feel like you are at a university/med school....feels like you are at a trade school....like DeVry or some computer training center.

I'd say DMU was by far the most appealing out of the DO schools I interviewed at in terms of the physical facilities were concerned. Their tuition was reasonable, they had a nice gym etc.....

 

[JaggerPlate]

In the end this is how thing break down between the MD schools and the DO schools ie Western

MD schools I interviewed at
low 30K/yr tuition
Computer lab use + free print outs (computers break down? The school fixes them and maintains them)
school gym
great campuses/college feel

DO schools ie Western
low 40K/yr tuition (10K increase in 5 yrs)
No computer lab but they supposedly have printers you can use to print stuff out with and yeah 5 cents is cheap but not compared to free print outs at MD schools.....plus you don't have the choice of using school's computer if your computer malfunctions.......no cafeteria....located on a train track..
No school gym
Crappy campus built on a rail road track/doesn't feel like you are at a university/med school....feels like you are at a trade school....like DeVry or some computer training center.

I'd say DMU was by far the most appealing out of the DO schools I interviewed at in terms of the physical facilities were concerned. Their tuition was reasonable, they had a nice gym etc.....

Well it sounds like you had issues with the facilities at one school ... this does NOT mean that all DO schools have these problems (you said yourself DMU had what you wanted), nor does it mean that all MD schools have computer labs, free printing, and nice gyms. You are comparing two schools, not MD facilities vs DO facilities. You also failed to mention if the MD school you interviewed at has had any tuition increase in the last five years.

 

[natsayshi]

And that's the problem with most of the DO schools, they don't have in-house facilities or attached hospitals. The only one's that do are the state funded DO schools like Oklahoma State, Michigan State, and North Texas.

There are others as well. Northeast Regional Medical Center is attached to KCOM.

 

[digitlnoize]

I still have no idea where you are getting the idea that academic incest is dead

you were right on the money digitl. Apparently Harvard, Yale, UCSF, UCLA, Stanford and UTSW are all behind the curve too...

First, 6 samples does not constitute a study. To make it worse, you chose schools that are well known for their incestuous behavior. It doesn't get any worse than Ivy league. Do a bigger sample (say all the schools) and get back to me.

First if there are no computer labs, how do you print stuff?

I don't know about you and all these other people, but I have my own printer...I pring stuff at home.

Second- 5 cents a page is really cheap.

Really, really cheap. My undergrad charges 15 cents a page. I never print stuff out there and we have more computer labs than anyone could ever need.

How much do you have to print out anyways? I print out the odd paper here and there, but it's not like I'm printing Harrison's or something...anything THAT long I would just read off my computer screen anyways...I don't want to lug around 2 of 3 reams of paper.

 

[CorpusERdoc]

Many, if not most of the DO schools are very cheap (I don't mean inexpensive....)
For an example, most of them make you buy a laptop. They allow the cost of it in the loan or as in DMU's case, it's included in the tuition. Either case, if it breaks down you are responsible for fixing it, up keeping it etc....and getting copies is your responsibility. You pay for everything computer related.

The MD schools I went to had huge computer labs. So, if you wanted to use a laptop of your own, you could. But, if you wanted to use the school's computer, you could as well. There were very competent lab assistants to help you (not just some undergrad dude) and print outs were free (included in the tuition) up to 100 for b/w and 20 for color each day.

It's amazing that the DO schools charge so much yet provide so much less than the MD counterparts. I'm not even referring to the typical MD vs DO stuff here. The only DO school I saw with a computer lab was CCOM. Perhaps others which I didn't interview at have them. But, most of the ones I interviewed at (Western, AZCOM, DMU) didn't have them.

On a side note, Western's tuition rose by 10K in 5 years. Yet, they have no computer labs, they charge you 5 cents a copy of print outs, you have to use your own computer and have NO option of using the school's, they have no gym (and only reimburse you $100/yr to join an outside gym)......where is the justification for this sort of a rip off?

I'm not sure what DO schools you are talking about, but most of the ones I interviewed at had large computer labs, and none of them required to have a computer. My school has a huge gym.

I'm not sure generalizing and saying that DO schools are one way and MD schools are another way is the best thing to do regarding this subject.

 

[nascardoc]

Many, if not most of the DO schools are very cheap (I don't mean inexpensive....)
For an example, most of them make you buy a laptop. They allow the cost of it in the loan or as in DMU's case, it's included in the tuition. Either case, if it breaks down you are responsible for fixing it, up keeping it etc....and getting copies is your responsibility. You pay for everything computer related.

The MD schools I went to had huge computer labs. So, if you wanted to use a laptop of your own, you could. But, if you wanted to use the school's computer, you could as well. There were very competent lab assistants to help you (not just some undergrad dude) and print outs were free (included in the tuition) up to 100 for b/w and 20 for color each day.

It's amazing that the DO schools charge so much yet provide so much less than the MD counterparts. I'm not even referring to the typical MD vs DO stuff here. The only DO school I saw with a computer lab was CCOM. Perhaps others which I didn't interview at have them. But, most of the ones I interviewed at (Western, AZCOM, DMU) didn't have them.

On a side note, Western's tuition rose by 10K in 5 years. Yet, they have no computer labs, they charge you 5 cents a copy of print outs, you have to use your own computer and have NO option of using the school's, they have no gym (and only reimburse you $100/yr to join an outside gym)......where is the justification for this sort of a rip off?

In the end this is how thing break down between the MD schools and the DO schools ie Western

MD schools I interviewed at
low 30K/yr tuition
Computer lab use + free print outs (computers break down? The school fixes them and maintains them)
school gym
great campuses/college feel

DO schools ie Western
low 40K/yr tuition (10K increase in 5 yrs)
No computer lab but they supposedly have printers you can use to print stuff out with and yeah 5 cents is cheap but not compared to free print outs at MD schools.....plus you don't have the choice of using school's computer if your computer malfunctions.......no cafeteria....located on a train track..
No school gym
Crappy campus built on a rail road track/doesn't feel like you are at a university/med school....feels like you are at a trade school....like DeVry or some computer training center.

I'd say DMU was by far the most appealing out of the DO schools I interviewed at in terms of the physical facilities were concerned. Their tuition was reasonable, they had a nice gym etc.....

First off...you can't say something for ALL DO schools when you have only seen 3 and use 1 for reference. Second, I invite you to DCOM and see the technology we have here and tell me we are cheap. I will give you the tour personally. I know there are other schools that have awesome facilities as well. Third, if a school requires you to have a laptop, why the hell would they need a computer lab??? You have a computer in front of you, why do you need another one. Here are DCOM, all the students are provided computers by the school (included in tuition), that are yours to keep, and we have an awesome IT dept that fixes any problems your computer may have for free. That's a huge advantage for having the students have the same computers...makes fixing things much easier and cheaper. Why would you expect schools that allow students to use all different brands of computers to fix them for free anyway??? That ain't gonna happen Jack. Next, once you see how much paper gets wasted by people b/c printing is free, you will understand why they make people pay for printouts. Its amazing how many times people forget you can printout powerpoint slides with more than one slide per page. Also, DCOM is affiliated with a university, Lincoln Memorial University, so you can get your college feel here too. And I don't understand why a gum reimbursement is a bad thing??? So you have to drive to a drive....😱.....get over it.

Moral of the story....gets your facts straight before you look stupid and talk out of your a$$.

 

[MossPoh]

That's a huge advantage for having the students have the same computers...makes fixing things much easier and cheaper. Why would you expect schools that allow students to use all different brands of computers to fix them for free anyway???

This is a point of contention for many programs. There are ways around it without forcing people to buy the a laptop they don't want. I looked into this with some faculty at my previous school. The "deal" they give you is not really much of a deal. At least with the lenovos, dells, and a few others. Fixing things isn't really THAT much easier or cheaper. Our alternative wound up being to allow students to buy whatever laptop they wanted and if it broke (which is really rare unless you slam it against a wall) we gave you one to use till the other was fixed. We had cabinet with about 30 laptops. At any given time we MIGHT have 2 laptops out, and the school had about 600 students there. Dell would give us new ones for free, but we had a little bit of a deal to make it worth their while. Also, for most of the problems that do happen, a warranty will cover them, which you should have a warranty regardless. My macbook went down and I had it back within the a couple of days with no charge. It sucked, but I have a backup laptop for basic work.

 

[nascardoc]

This is a point of contention for many programs. There are ways around it without forcing people to buy the a laptop they don't want. I looked into this with some faculty at my previous school. The "deal" they give you is not really much of a deal. At least with the lenovos, dells, and a few others. Fixing things isn't really THAT much easier or cheaper. Our alternative wound up being to allow students to buy whatever laptop they wanted and if it broke (which is really rare unless you slam it against a wall) we gave you one to use till the other was fixed. We had cabinet with about 30 laptops. At any given time we MIGHT have 2 laptops out, and the school had about 600 students there. Dell would give us new ones for free, but we had a little bit of a deal to make it worth their while. Also, for most of the problems that do happen, a warranty will cover them, which you should have a warranty regardless. My macbook went down and I had it back within the a couple of days with no charge. It sucked, but I have a backup laptop for basic work.

All good points and I see where you would come from if the school didn't rely on/revolve around the students' computer. At least here, our lives revolve around our tablets since everyone uses them to take notes on, take quizzes on, and study from, so students don't have a choice of actually needing the computer b/c they are absolutely necessary (DCOM is pretty much paperless except for exams). Overall, I would still argue that everyone having the same laptops make life a lot easier for IT. Another main reason why DCOM provides us with our own tablets is that they pre-load software on them, and not having to worry about diff't computer specs, XP/Windows/Linux, PC/Mac, etc., again, makes life easier for IT and the students. We have the same kind of deal where if a computer goes down, we get temps while our tablet gets warranty work (if its not something IT can do for us very quickly).