Do you pay attention to how safe the location is?

[Hain Adam]

I may sound obsessive but one of the first things I pay attention to while applying to grad school is the crime rates (e.g., safety) of the city where the school is located. In general I try not to apply to a school that is located in a city with high crime rates (e.g., Atlanta, St. Louis, Washington DC). Am I the only one who avoids "unsafe" cities no matter how good the schools in those cities may be?

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[RayneeDeigh]

When I think "high crime" I don't think Atlanta and St. Louis, I think Detroit and Vegas.

Some of the best cities have the highest crime (like Phoenix). It kind of comes with the territory of cities. I'm from the murder capital of Canada and I can tell you that I lived there for 21 years and never had anything bad happen. You can be "safe" in "unsafe" cities if you're willing to pay rent for better neighbourhoods and don't go wandering around like you're lost all the time.

Before I applied to places last year I checked crime maps not to see whether or not I wanted to apply there (I let school reputations and research fit do that for me) but to find out where I'd be safest living.

It's totally a judgment call but I wouldn't give up a great school just because it's in a big unsafe city. The great thing about big cities is just that, they're big. They can't be unsafe everywhere.

 

[shock-me-sane]

I think it really depends on the area you live in. Where I live right now, doing undergrad, it is a horrid city. But I live in the nice area (25 square miles or so), so just because it is a bad city doesn't mean every area is horrible.

 

[Hain Adam]

When I think "high crime" I don't think Atlanta and St. Louis, I think Detroit and Vegas.

St. Louis Named Most Dangerous U.S. City

 

[JR in SB]

....a thread about priorities...

 

[Ollie123]

I applied to Temple One could make a case for that being the "worst neighborhood" of any graduate school in the country.

I'd understand not wanting to apply to a SCHOOL that's in a bad neighborhood, but I think generalizing to a whole city is kind of ridiculous. Sometimes the schools in "high crime" cities are in the ritzy part of town and you're safer there than in most suburbs. "High crime" is usually contained in a few areas, and almost every city has nice, perfectly safe parts to live in, or you can commute from the suburbs.

I used to get nervous about it too, but after working in one of the worst neighborhoods of my former city for a few years before grad school, I was much more flexible. Even in uglier sections of town, most of the crime (though certainly not all) happens to people who are either being stupid, or are involved in crimes of their own in some fashion. When it came time to apply to grad school, I was confident in my ability to keep myself safe by say, not walking alone to my car at 2AM counting hundred dollar bills, and didn't want my fears to dictate my education.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

St. Louis Named Most Dangerous U.S. City

Oh I wasn't questioning whether or not it was true, I was just saying.

If you're going into Psychology you might want to get over the whole "unsafeness" issue. It's quite possible that your school will throw you into a practicum environment that isn't in the best neighbourhood since people there are notoriously underserved in ALL facets of healthcare, especially mental health. But I guess you're I/O anyway in which case none of this matters, haha.

I sound like a hippie I'm sure, but the best way to deal with being scared of an unsafe city is to remind yourself that they're just people. With some common sense and street smarts you can be safe almost anywhere, and random acts of violence don't happen nearly as often as crime that goes on between two violent individuals (though newspapers would have you believe otherwise). If you're a straight white male, then you already don't have to worry about half of the things that could happen.

I used to be completely scared of "high crime" cities too, until I stayed in downtown San Francisco by myself last summer. Really the worst thing that happened was some dude told me "Jesus loves you" after I gave him a muffin, and some chick on the bus decided to beat up the door when it didn't open fast enough. And some guy on a bus through the Tenderloin told me he was going to shoot us all but although I'm pretty sure he actually did have a gun, I'm also pretty sure that the only person he would have shot was the clearly psychotic woman across from him who wouldn't stop babbling at him.

So don't annoy crazy and/or violent people, and any city becomes a good city to live in.

 

[psy19]

I live in Baltimore right now for my undergrad, and I would never walk outside by myself at night. It's almost every day that that we get an email saying this person was mugged or this grad student was beat up and had his ipod stolen. People definitely do target students, so I'd say 1) don't make yourself too big of a target (ie walking by yourself at night, listening to music, carrying a laptop case), and 2) definitely find the "nice" part of the city. All this being said though, when it comes to picking grad schools, I'd go anywhere that accepted me

 

[empathiosis]

I was going to apply to the clin psych program at the University of Toledo until by accident I happened upon the city's police dept. web page and looked at crime stats. They had a whole map showing how many crimes had been committed that week and where ... This was enough to scare me away from UofT.

 

[kyril]

I sound like a hippie I'm sure, but the best way to deal with being scared of an unsafe city is to remind yourself that they're just people. With some common sense and street smarts you can be safe almost anywhere, and random acts of violence don't happen nearly as often as crime that goes on between two violent individuals (though newspapers would have you believe otherwise). If you're a straight white male, then you already don't have to worry about half of the things that could happen.

i've lived and worked in several major cities, in areas that are actually high crime and also in areas that were just really wierd at first for middle class white folks like me (really poor, no white people, no racial diversity at all, actually). basically, if you see moms with strollers or little kids during the day, you are about as safe as if you were in a nice neighborhood (half the folks i know that were mugged were mugged in places like soho and greenwich village, because that's where the tourists and richies are). i just try to be chill, i go to neighborhood busisness, get known, say hi to folks that hand out on the stoops just like everyone else does. but saying that, if you're not from a city, adopt the city face. otherwise very strange, very lonely people will be drawn to you like a magnet. someone should do a study on that.

 

[paramour]

I never really thought about crime as a factor in applying to schools. But, then again, I come from a university where it's not uncommon for students to be robbed (at gunpoint), beaten, kidnapped, & raped... on campus. Don't be stupid and you will typically be fine, even in those "dangerous" spots.

 

[GiantSteps]

Maybe everyone going to school in a city with heavy crime should ask if their stipend could be raised by $500 or so to purchase a gun.

I think type of crime in a city is more important to know than the overall rate. Phoenix, AZ is high because of the cars which are stolen and driven accross the border. This is clearly not to be feared as much as say: St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, or New York where the burglaries, assaults, and murders may have a higher prevalence. New York City, of course raises the bar with being a target for terrorist attacks. Also, do not forget location of the school in the city. Take Chicago for example. If you are at Northwestern's Evanston campus (Far Northside of Chicago) you probably do not need to worry as much as someone at the University of Chicago (south side of chicago). So you may be in a safe section of a high crime city. Finally, crime happens everywhere even on more isolated or rural campuses (Virginia Tech is not in a big city).

 

[PhDshallsee]

I think it really depends.

My two dream internships would be at KKI in Baltimore or CHOP in Philly. Both are in the top 20 most dangerous cities. I think Baltimore averaged nearly 300 murders in 2007. I don't even think Baltimore City has 500,000 people. And Philly had over 400 two years ago. That isn't petty crime.

As a single female, it would take a LOT for me to accept an internship at either. Living with someone, having a large cohort--a lot.

At the same time, I grew up in the suburbs of Richmond, Virginia. And I never felt unsafe at all. I would never go into the city alone. Which is why I think I might manage in Baltimore or Philly.

And Atlanta to me is not unsafe. But again, I guess I'm used to the suburbs!

St. Louis, on the other hand...

So even dangerous cities have their nice parts. But some dangerous cities aren't worth the risk to me.

Finally, crime happens everywhere even on more isolated or rural campuses (Virginia Tech is not in a big city).

I think there's a huge difference between a campus shooting by one person aimed at random people and daily shootings by the same people who the cops can't seem to keep up with.

 

[chiachia]

(e.g., Atlanta, St. Louis, Washington DC).

agree that just because one part of a city is unsafe doesnt mean the whole city is.

i live in atlanta right now, and have for more than 5 years. overall, atlanta is pretty safe, and even areas that my look not safe are. if youre thinking of emory, its really safe, ga state on the other hand would not be as safe.

a lot of areas have very congregated "not-safe" parts where a big majority of the crime happens. you figure out where those places are quickly.

but i fully agree with everyone else that, just because a city has high crime rates doesnt mean its unsafe to live there while in school

 

[psychanon]

I don't think that should be a blanket decision when deciding where to apply. First, as others have mentioned, you should consider neighborhoods prior to cities. There are many neighborhoods in Washington, D.C. that I get nervous just driving through, but most of the universities are located in posh neighborhoods in NW where I would not think twice about living or working (further, some of the formerly sketchy neighborhoods in SE are currently getting gentrified-- but that's a whole 'nother issue). Second, even if a university is in a high crime neighborhood, you're not required to live there. Temple, which as Ollie notes is located in a hotbed of crime (North Philly, perhaps the worst region of the city), is right on the Broad Street line, which would be easy to ride to and from a swanky and utterly safe apartment in Center City (or even catch a train to the suburbs, if you are THAT wimpy). Third, even within bad neighborhoods, universities tend to be safe. This is true of Temple-- I believe their campus is relatively safe and well policed. Also in Philly, Penn (which is in the part of Philadelphia where the Fresh Prince was born and raised) is surrounded by several well-policed and relatively safe blocks with nice restaurants and bars (but wander too many blocks west and you safety dissolves). Fourth, small college towns are not immune to crime. In fact, in my experience, campus in small college towns tend to attract local townie riff raff who have nothing better to do than to assault university students. Consequently, I have sometimes felt more sketched out in college towns than in New York City or other big, high crime areas.

I would not eliminate any universities in this country based on crime rates. You can always assess safety at interviews and turn down offers if you feel uncomfortable.

 

[lilies05]

i have a very good friend that goes to Wash U in St. Louis for law school. she lives by herself, has one of those sliding patio doors featured in law and order regularly, and has dogs that need to be walked every morning and evening. not only has she survived her first 2 years of law school, but she loves it there. schools like wash U, USC, UChicago, and Columbia know that they aren't in the best neighborhoods/cities, and they spend a lot of money on private security to ensure student safety both on campus and off campus in the places that students normally reside.

it's something to be wary of once you're accepted, but not worth denying yourself the potential to attend a great school that you could really be happy at! in my opinion at least.

FYI, on my undergrad tour of UPenn the tourguide admitted that a student had been stabbed the previous year. If i got into UPenn's clinical psych program, i'd take my chances

 

[Hain Adam]

I used to be completely scared of "high crime" cities too, until I stayed in downtown San Francisco by myself last summer. Really the worst thing that happened was some dude told me "Jesus loves you" after I gave him a muffin, and some chick on the bus decided to beat up the door when it didn't open fast enough. And some guy on a bus through the Tenderloin told me he was going to shoot us all but although I'm pretty sure he actually did have a gun, I'm also pretty sure that the only person he would have shot was the clearly psychotic woman across from him who wouldn't stop babbling at him.

So don't annoy crazy and/or violent people, and any city becomes a good city to live in.

I used to live in San Francisco for 3 years as well but I wouldn't call San Francisco a "high crime" city. In fact last year it was among the safest big cities in the USA. Of course the safest big city in california would be San Jose but San Francisco has pretty low crime rates compared to most big cities.

 

[blindchaos]

(which is in the part of Philadelphia where the Fresh Prince was born and raised) .

...on the playground is where he spent most of his days. At least that's what I hear.

I definitely take it into consideration but I don't think it would make me automatically say no to a school. When thinking of "high crime" cities, Detroit definitely comes to mind first. Regardless, every city and town has their nice areas and their bad areas and you don't nec. have to live right next to the school or in a bad part of town. I think if I wind up going to a school in a very big city I would live in the burbs anyway, partially for safety and partially b/c I'm just not used to big cities and don't particularly want to live right in the middle of everything (think gradual exposure therapy - I'll slowly get closer to the city )

 

[layleh]

Instead of completely knocking a school out because of an entire city's crime rate, I use the neighborhood as more of a gauge. Sure, DC and Baltimore have crappy crime rates; however, George Washington and Loyola (MD) are both in parts of town I feel comfortable in. I can't completely knock out a school I like because of general crime rate, but that's just me...

 

[deleted176373]

I may sound obsessive but one of the first things I pay attention to while applying to grad school is the crime rates (e.g., safety) of the city where the school is located. In general I try not to apply to a school that is located in a city with high crime rates (e.g., Atlanta, St. Louis, Washington DC). Am I the only one who avoids "unsafe" cities no matter how good the schools in those cities may be?

I am living in DC now. Where I live, I feel totally safe. There are good places and bad places to live. I just hate the traffic. I just wish that my concealed carry permit from Texas was honored here, because here only the criminals seem to carry guns.

Mark

PS- as an aside, I grew up in NYC. I feel safe just about anywhere people aren't shooting directly at me.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

I used to live in San Francisco for 3 years as well but I wouldn't call San Francisco a "high crime" city. In fact last year it was among the safest big cities in the USA. Of course the safest big city in california would be San Jose but San Francisco has pretty low crime rates compared to most big cities.

There are pockets of San Francisco that are actually less safe than most areas of the country. On the whole, safe city. But that really wasn't the point of my story.

But since apparently every city has some sort of counter-argument, I'll leave it be.

 

[clinpsychjack]

I may sound obsessive but one of the first things I pay attention to while applying to grad school is the crime rates (e.g., safety) of the city where the school is located. In general I try not to apply to a school that is located in a city with high crime rates (e.g., Atlanta, St. Louis, Washington DC). Am I the only one who avoids "unsafe" cities no matter how good the schools in those cities may be?

There are safe and dangerous areas of every city. If you rule out a lot of the cities in the top 10-20 of those "most dangerous" lists, you're severely limiting yourself. I live in Baltimore city right now, which has one of the highest crime rates, but those are isolated to certain areas. I live in one of the safest neighborhoods (Roland Park) and I feel absolutely no danger at all, even while jogging at night (with tons of other joggers in the area). I have a great job here, which has given me invaluable research experience and networking opportunities. My previous roommate now goes to WashU in St. Louis (2007's "Most Dangerous City), but lives in a very safe neighborhood (Clayton) that is still close to campus. You just have to familiarize yourself with the safe/dangerous areas. Washington DC and many other cities are exactly the same. I don't really trust those lists anyway.

If a city makes the "safest" ranking, it's most likely because it's less populous, more wealthy, and/or there's nothing there (do you really want to live in Brick, NJ?)

 

[cmuhooligan]

Other folks have hit upon this, but I live in St. Louis (the most dangerous city in the country) and I have never worried about crime. Just like any major city, there are places where crime is higher, and you just tend to avoid those areas. Conversely, there are lovely "pockets" within the city (I live in one of them), where I feel comfortable walking the streets in the middle of the night...(that may sound more risque than intended, I assure you )

 

[xlittlemissalix]

...on the playground is where he spent most of his days. At least that's what I hear.

 

[katellis]

if safety is a concern for you i would urge you to check out the campus crime reports and statistics instead of just looking at the crime of the city as a whole. case in point - i work at a large university in the heart of detroit. the surrounding areas can be pretty sketchy, but the campus itself is ridiculously safe and i have never felt unsafe here. in fact, this campus has less crime than u-m ann arbor! (which is where i did my undergrad and i never felt unsafe there either!).

try not let the city's reputation discourage you and look at the school itself.

 

[psychgirl23]

I was having similar concerns about safety too....I just finished interviewing with the University of Missouri-St. Louis. I'm from Canada and I wasn't aware of St. Louis being named "most dangerous city in the US" numerous times. It actually scares/worries me quite a bit. Does anyone know about the area surrounding that university and what it's like?

 

[cmuhooligan]

I was having similar concerns about safety too....I just finished interviewing with the University of Missouri-St. Louis. I'm from Canada and I wasn't aware of St. Louis being named "most dangerous city in the US" numerous times. It actually scares/worries me quite a bit. Does anyone know about the area surrounding that university and what it's like?

UMSL is not within the city of St.Louis, it's in the northern suburbs, so crime there isn't as bad, and as I said, there are always going to be pockets of bad areas in a large city, but you simply avoid them, the cool places to hang out aren't in those "bad" areas anyways

 

[psychadelic]

I live near St. Louis and go there frequently. I have never felt unsafe. It is a big city with some high poverty, but in generally speaking I think most murders etc. are gang related and you won't be in those areas most likely.

 

[Psyched77]

I grew up in Little Rock, & when I was a teen there, it had the highest murder rate per capita for a number of years. I was never a victim of a "stranger" crime -- even though I lived "inner city" for 4 years. Really, it didn't seem all that scary to me. I think it has to do with familiarity & acclimating.

In undergrad, I did a double major in Psych & Sociology (with an option in Criminology). Research consistently shows that most violent/sexual offenses are perpetrated by someone known to the victim...most often a partner or family member. Stranger-committed offenses are actually quite rare with regard to violent crimes; we just tend to hear about them on television because of the sensational nature of the cases. The reality is, you're more likely to be killed or assaulted by your partner than any else (by a LONG shot), & females are more likely to be raped (or otherwise sexually assualted) by a partner or date than anyone else (again...by a LONG shot).

For me, my concerns about the areas I was applying to had more to do with the public schools (my kids are 11 & almost 13) & race relations (we're a multi-racial family). Like someone pointed out above, we all have different priorities, & these will guide how we evaluate various issues.

 

[PinkSoil]

I would imagine that if you are not from a bit city, the statistics could throw you off and you might imagine the city to be 'unsafe' as a whole. For example, I now live in Philadelphia (I'm a NY transplant) and some people that have not been here or don't have experience with cities get all their information about Philly on the news. So what's on the news? The high crime rates that dominate specific sections of the city. You could say Philly is one of the most dangerous cities, but the downtown area is also one of the safest to walk around in, especially at night. Most major cities have their dangerous spots. Unfortunately, it accounts for the entire city being labeled dangerous. When deciding on the schools, don't research the city as a whole-- rather research the area and surrounding areas of the school, campus safety, where you would be living, and transportation to the area (if you are taking public).

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

I live in Oakland and people (usually from the midwest) freak out when they hear that because it's so "dangerous." I've lived here for many years and I have never felt unsafe (and I come from a very small rural town with *no* crime).