Do you still want to become a "clinical hospital pharmacist?" Follow the numbers.

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Here are all the hoops you have to jump through in order to become a "clinical pharmacist" (keep in mind these are all based on averages):

1. Get admitted to pharmacy school - 82.7% chance
2. Pass classes, complete PharmD, not fall victim to attrition: 87.9% chance
3. Apply and match to a PGY-1 residency - 64% chance
4. Apply and match to a PGY-2 (specialist) residency - 75% chance

This means that in order to just have the requisite credentials to be qualified to apply for a job, you only have a 34.9% chance.

Now let's consider the job market. 81,700 pharmacist jobs are hospital jobs which are growing at a 4.4% rate over the next 10 years. This means that based on the latest BLS forecast, there will be ~ 360 new hospital jobs created per year. There are 14,905 graduates at minimum per year, so your chances of finding a hospital job is at best 360/14,905 = 2.4%, but that number is hugely inflated because there are tons of unemployed, underemployed and displaced pharmacists looking for other jobs who have graduated in the last 1-25 years before you graduated and you're all fighting for the same jobs.

Taken together, this means that while every one of your classmates say they don't want to do retail pharmacy, your hopes of becoming that unicorn clinical hospital pharmacist is 34.9% x 2.4% = 0.8%. Good luck in the Hunger Games, and may the odds be ever in your favor.

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[thumbz]

 

[PharmtoCS]

View attachment 281119

Taken together, this means that while every one of your classmates say they don't want to do retail pharmacy, your hopes of becoming that unicorn clinical hospital pharmacist is 34.9% x 2.4% = 0.8%. Good luck in the Hunger Games, and may the odds be ever in your favor.

tl;dr

It doesn’t matter what you plan to do after graduation. RETAIL still makes up the vast majority of jobs,. As those jobs disappear, where do you think all the retail pharmacists will try to go to when they get displaced?

 

[JustFillIt]

Here are all the hoops you have to jump through in order to become a "clinical pharmacist" (keep in mind these are all based on averages):

1. Get admitted to pharmacy school - 82.7% chance
2. Pass classes, complete PharmD, not fall victim to attrition: 87.9% chance
3. Apply and match to a PGY-1 residency - 64% chance
4. Apply and match to a PGY-2 (specialist) residency - 75% chance

This means that in order to just have the requisite credentials to be qualified to apply for a job, you only have a 34.9% chance.

Now let's consider the job market. 81,700 pharmacist jobs are hospital jobs which are growing at a 4.4% rate over the next 10 years. This means that based on the latest BLS forecast, there will be ~ 360 new hospital jobs created per year. There are 14,905 graduates at minimum per year, so your chances of finding a hospital job is at best 360/14,905 = 2.4%, but that number is hugely inflated because there are tons of unemployed, underemployed and displaced pharmacists looking for other jobs who have graduated in the last 1-25 years before you graduated and you're all fighting for the same jobs.

Taken together, this means that while every one of your classmates say they don't want to do retail pharmacy, your hopes of becoming that unicorn clinical hospital pharmacist is 34.9% x 2.4% = 0.8%. Good luck in the Hunger Games, and may the odds be ever in your favor.

I just want to say this is a bunch of hogwash

Geeze - I need to hang out in the pre Pharm more often. I had no idea all the fun was happening over here.

 

[Timbo]

Note that not everybody applies to residency, so the 64% PGY-1 match rate will actually be LOWER now in years to come because everybody is realizing how much of a **** show retail has become and more students are going to shoot for residency. Unfortunately residency slots and pharmacy jobs are not expanding that fast to accommodate for all of those jumping ship from retail.

 

[BC_89]

Here are all the hoops you have to jump through in order to become a "clinical pharmacist" (keep in mind these are all based on averages):

1. Get admitted to pharmacy school - 82.7% chance
2. Pass classes, complete PharmD, not fall victim to attrition: 87.9% chance
3. Apply and match to a PGY-1 residency - 64% chance
4. Apply and match to a PGY-2 (specialist) residency - 75% chance

This means that in order to just have the requisite credentials to be qualified to apply for a job, you only have a 34.9% chance.

Now let's consider the job market. 81,700 pharmacist jobs are hospital jobs which are growing at a 4.4% rate over the next 10 years. This means that based on the latest BLS forecast, there will be ~ 360 new hospital jobs created per year. There are 14,905 graduates at minimum per year, so your chances of finding a hospital job is at best 360/14,905 = 2.4%, but that number is hugely inflated because there are tons of unemployed, underemployed and displaced pharmacists looking for other jobs who have graduated in the last 1-25 years before you graduated and you're all fighting for the same jobs.

Taken together, this means that while every one of your classmates say they don't want to do retail pharmacy, your hopes of becoming that unicorn clinical hospital pharmacist is 34.9% x 2.4% = 0.8%. Good luck in the Hunger Games, and may the odds be ever in your favor.

1) Programs still exist that do not utilize PharmCAS
2) Does that percentage include those that take a Leave of Absence and graduate the following year or never return?
3) There is a decent percentage that is not included in this statistic for those pursuing a residency within the DOD as they are excluded in the Match.
4) Refer to point #3 plus you must exclude programs that automatically included a PGY-1 and 2 to those who sign the dotted line and wish to apply.

If you want a more realistic approach when it comes to Cost of Living, Inflation, and decrease in salary, save the writing and use this link:

Job Saturation: Is Pharmacy Worth It? Here's What You Need to Know

And then for modern updates from our senior pharmacists (and I suppose you new ones as well) refer them to this:

Job Market

Pharmacy job market discussions and opportunities.

forums.studentdoctor.net

Once you do that, then you can suggest a solution besides "not going to pharmacy school" because come on....you know very few listen (but since the job market was created it has some traffic that has actually helped a lot). Find solutions such as the following:

1) Indian Health Services
2) Reserves or Active Duty Service --> Look for applications from Navy and Airforce that also cover all or portion of school expenses in exchange for service
3) 501(c)3 federal jobs (pay less but benefit and health packages are pretty impressive

I would even suggest for pre-anyone to take a statistic and accounting course to help in understanding roll-over and compounded interest and how much money is truly lost over a given period of time. Anyway, if your going to be persistent then do it from a new approach.

 

[mentos]

 

[TerryTerry]

All I know is that many new graduates won`t even get chance to work in retail settings.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

All I know is that many new graduates won`t even get chance to work in retail settings.

I think its just a bunch of people trying to deter you from this profession by bringing up job saturation. You could easily make 120,000 and up if you are a pharmacist.

 

[JustFillIt]

I think its just a bunch of people trying to deter you from this profession by bringing up job saturation. You could easily make 120,000 and up if you are a pharmacist.

This is part of it... not 100%... there certainly is some challenges

 

[TerryTerry]

I think its just a bunch of people trying to deter you from this profession by bringing up job saturation. You could easily make 120,000 and up if you are a pharmacist.

I am not. Please teach me how.

 

[thumbz]

My take away from all these posts is that pharmacy school is still an amazing option because you can be admitted without an undergrad degree and be guaranteed a salary of 120k+ upon graduation no matter what all while be called Doctor or El Hefe by your grateful and adoring patient base. Because statistics are hard and rather than truly look at them I would rather believe what my forefathers believed. If history taught us anything, it's that it never repeats so clearly there isn't a law situation going on here.

In reality I feel incredibly bad for what your profession did to itself and the idea this may be a crystal ball into the future of medicine is terrifying. It shows me we need to push back against this uncontrolled midlevel expansion and also against thoughtless residency expansion which will dilute down our profession. Schools sadly continue to look at students as cash cows and couldn't care less if your 2.8 undergrad GPA means maybe you shouldn't be chiefly responsible for critical thinking to save lives.

 

[Abby Atwood]

In my opinion, the odds of becoming a clinical pharmacist is essentially just the odds of graduating pharmacy school and obtaining work as a pharmacist. The term clinical pharmacist is ill defined. All pharmacists occupy a clinical role.

No offense to the original poster. This is just my personal vendetta against the term clinical pharmacist

 

[PharmtoCS]

In my opinion, the odds of becoming a clinical pharmacist is essentially just the odds of graduating pharmacy school and obtaining work as a pharmacist. The term clinical pharmacist is ill defined. All pharmacists occupy a clinical role.

No offense to the original poster. This is just my personal vendetta against the term clinical pharmacist

I think what they meant were roles that are primarily clinical and not majority dispensing, i.e. not your traditional retail or hospital position. These make up about 70% and 20-25% of the jobs, respectively for about 90% total combined. The jobs that are majority clinical are far and few between.

 

[JustFillIt]

In my opinion, the odds of becoming a clinical pharmacist is essentially just the odds of graduating pharmacy school and obtaining work as a pharmacist. The term clinical pharmacist is ill defined. All pharmacists occupy a clinical role.

No offense to the original poster. This is just my personal vendetta against the term clinical pharmacist

Yea but.. as someone who managed retail for a long time, and changed to a “clinical pharmacy job” let me be clear to say there is a huge difference.

I never considered counciling patients from a memorized mental script, or helping someone know the difference between Mucinex and Delsym clinical at all. In retail I was a business manager, I managed people and public relations, and I ensured safe and accurate procedures were in place. This was incredibly challenging.

As a clinical pharmacist now, it’s enitrely different. Now my job is almost entirely as a support to the clinicians. I don’t want to offend, but it’s certainly different. Again, its not to say that my clinical focused job is more challenging- it isn’t... anyone who can hang in busy retail these days is a freaking champion.

So - I’m my mind it should be a champion vs a clinical pharmacist.

 

[Abby Atwood]

I think what they meant were roles that are primarily clinical and not majority dispensing, i.e. not your traditional retail or hospital position. These make up about 70% and 20-25% of the jobs, respectively for about 90% total combined. The jobs that are majority clinical are far and few between.

I would still argue that clinical intervention often happens during order verification and dispensing, but I do see your point.

 

[JustFillIt]

I would still argue that clinical intervention often happens during order verification and dispensing, but I do see your point.

Sure - I would agree with this.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Here are all the hoops you have to jump through in order to become a "clinical pharmacist" (keep in mind these are all based on averages):

1. Get admitted to pharmacy school - 82.7% chance
2. Pass classes, complete PharmD, not fall victim to attrition: 87.9% chance
3. Apply and match to a PGY-1 residency - 64% chance
4. Apply and match to a PGY-2 (specialist) residency - 75% chance

This means that in order to just have the requisite credentials to be qualified to apply for a job, you only have a 34.9% chance.

Now let's consider the job market. 81,700 pharmacist jobs are hospital jobs which are growing at a 4.4% rate over the next 10 years. This means that based on the latest BLS forecast, there will be ~ 360 new hospital jobs created per year. There are 14,905 graduates at minimum per year, so your chances of finding a hospital job is at best 360/14,905 = 2.4%, but that number is hugely inflated because there are tons of unemployed, underemployed and displaced pharmacists looking for other jobs who have graduated in the last 1-25 years before you graduated and you're all fighting for the same jobs.

Taken together, this means that while every one of your classmates say they don't want to do retail pharmacy, your hopes of becoming that unicorn clinical hospital pharmacist is 34.9% x 2.4% = 0.8%. Good luck in the Hunger Games, and may the odds be ever in your favor.

Yes, Katniss Everdeen agrees with you. (Cue Mockingjay whistle with my three fingers raised)

 

[PSOP Student]

All I know is that many new graduates won`t even get chance to work in retail settings.

You want to know what is REALLY FU#KED up?

The c/o 2019 are saying they can't even find JOBS! I know students who went back to their OLD JOBS before pharmacy school to pay off their interest while they wait to hear back to work a few hours as per diem. It is so screwed up that schools can still abuse naive students because the schools are in a position of power. In Oregon, Bi-Mart just closed their pharmacy departments: Bi-Mart drops pharmacy services in the Portland area; blames new Oregon business tax

On top of that, everyone that is working per diem and can't find a job at the moment is applying for residency this year. ASHP accreditation program is going to make SO MUCH money this year from all the students that graduated and can't find a source of income.

How is this pharmacy scam even legal when we look at Heald/Corinthian College? We need a lawsuit. Schools are still flat out lying to students to keep them in their seats and stealing money from the Gov.

 

[MelatoninAddict]

Here are all the hoops you have to jump through in order to become a "clinical pharmacist" (keep in mind these are all based on averages):

1. Get admitted to pharmacy school - 82.7% chance
2. Pass classes, complete PharmD, not fall victim to attrition: 87.9% chance
3. Apply and match to a PGY-1 residency - 64% chance
4. Apply and match to a PGY-2 (specialist) residency - 75% chance

This means that in order to just have the requisite credentials to be qualified to apply for a job, you only have a 34.9% chance.

Now let's consider the job market. 81,700 pharmacist jobs are hospital jobs which are growing at a 4.4% rate over the next 10 years. This means that based on the latest BLS forecast, there will be ~ 360 new hospital jobs created per year. There are 14,905 graduates at minimum per year, so your chances of finding a hospital job is at best 360/14,905 = 2.4%, but that number is hugely inflated because there are tons of unemployed, underemployed and displaced pharmacists looking for other jobs who have graduated in the last 1-25 years before you graduated and you're all fighting for the same jobs.

Taken together, this means that while every one of your classmates say they don't want to do retail pharmacy, your hopes of becoming that unicorn clinical hospital pharmacist is 34.9% x 2.4% = 0.8%. Good luck in the Hunger Games, and may the odds be ever in your favor.

Alright, let's break this post down. I'm currently in a rush, so I'm sure I'm missing out on some stuff. For the sake of simplicity, I'm just going to assume that OP's stats are all accurate, and none of them are meant to be misleading.

OP correctly calculates that in order to get from pre-pharm to PGY-2, you would have a 34.9% chance. However, and this is perhaps the most important caveat in this entire post, this chance assumes that all applicants are equal and that people are selected at random. While I don't deny that there's some amount of randomness in the application process, no two applicants are ever equal to each other. You all have unique characteristics and experiences that pharmacy programs take into consideration. Additionally, pharmacy school is tough, but it isn't a crapshoot. Passing your classes and earning your PharmD depends on *you* putting in the hard work in order to accomplish the PharmD program and match into a residency program. Yes, on average, pre-pharms will have a lot of difficulty getting to the point where they end up matching into PGY-2, but there's no such thing as an average applicant. No matter how many statistics people throw at you, ultimately, statistics mean nothing to the individual. Whether you succeed and end up becoming a clinical pharmacist depends on you, not on chance.

The other thing I wanted to point out relates to job growth versus the influx of graduates. Firstly, not all 14,905 graduates are interested in going into clinical pharmacy. Secondly, OP doesn't take into consideration the fact that some current clinical pharmacists leave their jobs, be it because of retirement, a career change, or some other cause that takes them out of the clinical pharmacy labor force. This lowers competition for a clinical pharmacy position. Thirdly, and this connects back to what I said earlier, but OP assumes that you are an average applicant, when I have just argued that there's no such thing as an average applicant. Again, your chances of finding a job depends on your credentials and what you do during your time in education.

On an unrelated note, I'm astounded by how much passion and energy people are putting in to try to dissuade prepharms from applying to pharmacy school. Honestly, at this point, I'm convinced that OP is secretly an agent hired by the AACP to weed out students who are into pharmacy for the wrong reason. The only other explanation I can think of is that OP couldn't find a job after getting a PharmD and thus spends time trying to talk people out of pharmacy out of spite, and I think that's just really sad. I hope that isn't actually the case.

 

[TerryTerry]

Alright, let's break this post down. I'm currently in a rush, so I'm sure I'm missing out on some stuff. For the sake of simplicity, I'm just going to assume that OP's stats are all accurate, and none of them are meant to be misleading.

OP correctly calculates that in order to get from pre-pharm to PGY-2, you would have a 34.9% chance. However, and this is perhaps the most important caveat in this entire post, this chance assumes that all applicants are equal and that people are selected at random. While I don't deny that there's some amount of randomness in the application process, no two applicants are ever equal to each other. You all have unique characteristics and experiences that pharmacy programs take into consideration. Additionally, pharmacy school is tough, but it isn't a crapshoot. Passing your classes and earning your PharmD depends on *you* putting in the hard work in order to accomplish the PharmD program and match into a residency program. Yes, on average, pre-pharms will have a lot of difficulty getting to the point where they end up matching into PGY-2, but there's no such thing as an average applicant. No matter how many statistics people throw at you, ultimately, statistics mean nothing to the individual. Whether you succeed and end up becoming a clinical pharmacist depends on you, not on chance.

The other thing I wanted to point out relates to job growth versus the influx of graduates. Firstly, not all 14,905 graduates are interested in going into clinical pharmacy. Secondly, OP doesn't take into consideration the fact that some current clinical pharmacists leave their jobs, be it because of retirement, a career change, or some other cause that takes them out of the clinical pharmacy labor force. This lowers competition for a clinical pharmacy position. Thirdly, and this connects back to what I said earlier, but OP assumes that you are an average applicant, when I have just argued that there's no such thing as an average applicant. Again, your chances of finding a job depends on your credentials and what you do during your time in education.

On an unrelated note, I'm astounded by how much passion and energy people are putting in to try to dissuade prepharms from applying to pharmacy school. Honestly, at this point, I'm convinced that OP is secretly an agent hired by the AACP to weed out students who are into pharmacy for the wrong reason. The only other explanation I can think of is that OP couldn't find a job after getting a PharmD and thus spends time trying to talk people out of pharmacy out of spite, and I think that's just really sad. I hope that isn't actually the case.

Hey. Do not go to pharmacy school.
No amount of melatonin will help you once you choose that route.

15000 graduates every year. This number alone should be enough for every person with common sense to avoid pharmacy school right now.

Many retired pharmacists are not there to hand out free jobs to new young bloods. They are actually competing for scarce part time positions because many retired pharmacists still would work few hours a week to generate side income (not because they need it but because $40/hour is still a lot for them when they have nothing to do at home).

 

[PharmtoCS]

I'm convinced that OP is secretly an agent hired by the AACP to weed out students who are into pharmacy for the wrong reason.

Wrong...the AACP profits by collecting fees from schools which in turn make money off of students.

The real losers of the saturation are:
New grads
Practicing pharmacists
Patients
Possibly taxpayers if the grads end up not being to pay back their loans

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Wrong...the AACP profits by collecting fees from schools which in turn make money off of students.

The real losers of the saturation are:
New grads
Practicing pharmacists
Patients
Possibly taxpayers if the grads end up not being to pay back their loans

How are the practicing pharmacists losers? If you're employed in this saturated market, shouldn't that be considered winning? Especially if you're at a stress free independent or hospital?

 

[Hels2007]

I have just argued that there's no such thing as an average applicant.

Only in the eyes of the applicant. Sure, they all see themselves as speshul snowflakes. Having reviewed a lot of applicants for a handful of different opportunities, there are always a few standouts (and they don't have to worry about landing a job anyway), and everyone else is pretty much the same almost to the point of a coin toss. Anything unique may come into play at the point of the interview, but you have to beat the odds to get there first.

 

[PharmtoCS]

How are the practicing pharmacists losers? If you're employed in this saturated market, shouldn't that be considered winning? Especially if you're at a stress free independent or hospital?

Your job mobility is limited even after you land a unicorn job. If you end up having to leave for personal reasons or get let go for reasons beyond your control, what is the chance of finding another job, let alone one that provides you comparable lifestyle and pay to the previous?

A lot “stress-free” jobs are no longer so as employers realize there is a line of desperate new grads with $200k+ in loans who want your job for lower pay.

 

[Hels2007]

Your job mobility is limited even after you land a unicorn job. If you end up having to leave for personal reasons or get let go for reasons beyond your control, what is the chance of finding another job, let alone one that provides you comparable lifestyle and pay to the previous?

A lot “stress-free” jobs are no longer so as employers realize there is a line of desperate new grads with $200k+ in loans who want your job for lower pay.

I have a terminology objection. I would argue that a true unicorn has a niche where they have little competition. While losing a job is always a possibility - a unicorn should be able to get back on your feet quickly. If you have to compete with every Mary and John out there, you weren't really a unicorn., just a sheep that got lucky for a while. So, say, I would differentiate between an experienced oncology clinical pharmacist and someone who had a nice job with an independent, or in med info or something. Still great to have even a few years at a cushy low-stress job, but that's not "unicorn" in my view.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I have a terminology objection. I would argue that a true unicorn has a niche where they have little competition. While losing a job is always a possibility - a unicorn should be able to get back on your feet quickly. If you have to compete with every Mary and John out there, you weren't really a unicorn., just a sheep that got lucky for a while. So, say, I would differentiate between an experienced oncology clinical pharmacist and someone who had a nice job with an independent, or in med info or something. Still great to have even a few years at a cushy low-stress job, but that's not "unicorn" in my view.

Partially agree. My definition of a unicorn job is one where you are irreplaceable to a company because you bring unique value from your skillset. Based on this definition I think clinical specialists are not unicorns because they can be easily replaced by new PGY-2 grads (and there are definitely more PGY-2 grads being pumped out year over year than specialties demand).

 

[Hels2007]

If you want to take an argument to that level, all of us are replaceable because civilization has somehow survived for millennia without us, and I am fairly sure will survive for millennia after we become plant food. And even taking a step back from there, you don't have to be a Nobel prize contender to have limited competition. In fact, I would argue against being so niched that you have zero competitors, then if your job goes away - you are truly screwed.

Curious to hear what you would define as "unique skillset" because everything out there can be learned quickly enough, if people give you a chance to learn it. And whatever you can do, there are hundreds or thousands of others who can do it at least as well. Maybe not quite the same unique combination of skills and experiences, but most of them aren't going to be relevant to the position at hand anyway. To me, key is finding something where you do well and where for any given job, you will face maybe 10-20 competitors, not hundreds or thousands.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Your job mobility is limited even after you land a unicorn job. If you end up having to leave for personal reasons or get let go for reasons beyond your control, what is the chance of finding another job, let alone one that provides you comparable lifestyle and pay to the previous?

A lot “stress-free” jobs are no longer so as employers realize there is a line of desperate new grads with $200k+ in loans who want your job for lower pay.

Not every employer is going to want JUST the cheap labor. Some employers, the good ones, will want quantity over quality. I would pay a good pharmacist with $60 over a new grad who has no experience and does not know how to run a pharmacy $50. An experienced pharmacist with compassion and passion is worth 10 of money hungry new grads.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

If you want to take an argument to that level, all of us are replaceable because civilization has somehow survived for millennia without us, and I am fairly sure will survive for millennia after we become plant food. And even taking a step back from there, you don't have to be a Nobel prize contender to have limited competition. In fact, I would argue against being so niched that you have zero competitors, then if your job goes away - you are truly screwed.

Curious to hear what you would define as "unique skillset" because everything out there can be learned quickly enough, if people give you a chance to learn it. And whatever you can do, there are hundreds or thousands of others who can do it at least as well. Maybe not quite the same unique combination of skills and experiences, but most of them aren't going to be relevant to the position at hand anyway. To me, key is finding something where you do well and where for any given job, you will face maybe 10-20 competitors, not hundreds or thousands.
[/

“Unique skillset” would be defined as having intangible skills and contributions that make it extremely difficult for your employer to sit down and write a job description for what you do. These types of roles are typically:

1. Roles for tenured employees of an organization only, as they require a high level of institutionalized knowledge (who’s who at the ground and management levels, working relationships with key personnel across the company etc.)
2. Never posted publicly because any external hire, no matter how qualified they are, would be lacking in #1.
3. People who have these jobs often carry one-off job titles compared to other pharmacists in their company, such as “special projects coordinator” instead of “clinical pharmacist” or “staff pharmacist”
4. There exists a maximum of 2-3 of these kinds of jobs at the company

If you have a job that fits this description then yes, I would say that you have a unicorn job. Any other type of job is replaceable.

 

[Hels2007]

I see. We are looking at it from very different perspectives. Though given that the thread is focused on clinical pharmacists, your definition makes sense.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Unicorn jobs in niche fields are far and few between, hence why they are considered niche and unicorn. Even if you have a unique, irreplaceable skillset you might still have to move states away if you want a job with a similar role.

 

[PSOP Student]

Not every employer is going to want JUST the cheap labor. Some employers, the good ones, will want quantity over quality. I would pay a good pharmacist with $60 over a new grad who has no experience and does not know how to run a pharmacy $50. An experienced pharmacist with compassion and passion is worth 10 of money hungry new grads.

No, you wouldn't. Just watch as the payroll gets slashed. Hospitals are already cutting hours. Walmart fired vets. You may say that, but to businesses...money is what matters.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

No, you wouldn't. Just watch as the payroll gets slashed. Hospitals are already cutting hours. Walmart fired vets. You may say that, but to businesses...money is what matters.

Maybe at cvs, wag, wally world. Hence, my statement about a “good employer”. From a purely business stand point, this is why starbucks is successful and half of american automakers bankrupted. Once you chose quantity over quality, consumers will notice. Why would anyone want to go to a pharmacy where you have to wait 2 days to get your meds? Lol or talk to a pharmacist who too busy answering and waiting for 5 calls? What would be the point of slashing payroll if youre bleeding money due to bad customer service? I suppose you could weigh the risk of providing crappy service vs how much money youre losing.

All that being said, at the end of the day, you gotta remember that we are pharmacists. What we do have real consequences.

 

[Sine Cura]

I suppose you could weigh the risk of providing crappy service vs how much money youre losing.

Chains are doing that

USPS doesn't care about long lines, DMV doesn't care about long lines, low-income clinics don't care about long waits, yet pharmacies with fewer staff than a Wendy's are supposed to spam the in and out windows within a nanosecond of people showing up

 

[TerryTerry]

Not every employer is going to want JUST the cheap labor. Some employers, the good ones, will want quantity over quality. I would pay a good pharmacist with $60 over a new grad who has no experience and does not know how to run a pharmacy $50. An experienced pharmacist with compassion and passion is worth 10 of money hungry new grads.

With automation, good employer can quickly figure out they can save a lot more than $10 a hour by changing few things and getting new pharmacist. I just hope the good employer offers old pharmacist something reasonable before they decide to replace him with someone much much cheaper than $10/hr.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

With automation, good employer can quickly figure out they can save a lot more than $10 a hour by changing few things and getting new pharmacist. I just hope the good employer offers old pharmacist something reasonable before they decide to replace him with someone much much cheaper than $10/hr.

Counting machines can probably replace a few techs but how does automation completely replace a pharmacist? We've tried buying a machine to count, it costs $300k or more. that's insane. and it's not very efficient nor cost effective unless you're doing 1000 scripts a day.

 

[TerryTerry]

Counting machines can probably replace a few techs but how does automation completely replace a pharmacist? We've tried buying a machine to count, it costs $300k or more. that's insane. and it's not very efficient nor cost effective unless you're doing 1000 scripts a day.

Much knowledge has been replaced by google search. Something like that.

 

[rxkrafted]

Unicorn jobs in niche fields are far and few between, hence why they are considered niche and unicorn. Even if you have a unique, irreplaceable skillset you might still have to move states away if you want a job with a similar role.

I don't think all employed pharmacists fall into the line of "losers". If you need to move away and switch jobs, your chances of losing are there because of the market but if you plan to stay at the same job it's a different story. A good clinical pharmacist in a hospital setting with a great relationship with the director will not be easily replaced regardless of how much money you need to save. They'll find other ways to cut costs rather than cutting out an employee that they've already established a good relationship with and trusts their knowledge and work habits.

 

[JustFillIt]

Not every employer is going to want JUST the cheap labor. Some employers, the good ones, will want quantity over quality. I would pay a good pharmacist with $60 over a new grad who has no experience and does not know how to run a pharmacy $50. An experienced pharmacist with compassion and passion is worth 10 of money hungry new grads.

Yup... This has been my experience/understanding also.

 

[Hels2007]

Unfortunately, great employers face the same financial pressures as the bad ones. And sometimes they are forced to make difficult decisions, from cutting corners to cutting stuff to closing doors. I would bank on something more solid than "great customer service/relationships" as a value proposition for a pharmacy.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I see. We are looking at it from very different perspectives. Though given that the thread is focused on clinical pharmacists, your definition makes sense.

Yeah I may have used the word “unicorn” loosely in my original post because I know that pharmacists by nature are passive and unimaginative so they will gravitate towards any fad and think it’s the next best thing since sliced bread. (for the most part, it is being a “clinical pharmacist”)

For example, as retail becomes a dying career, you now all of a sudden have all these pharmacists trying to get into the hospital setting, not because they have any experience or true interest in it but because they think there will be greener pastures on the other side as a 3rd shift per diem pharmacist because they get a lunch break. Or they might try to get into prior authorization positions at a PBM and think it’s their “dream job” because they get to be in an 8-5 office setting job, not knowing that the average turnover rate is 6 months to an year because nobody can keep up with the metrics.

So the bottom line is that a “unicorn” job is highly dependent on the eye of the beholder. Your expectations aren’t going to be very high when you haven’t seen what’s out there, and your expectations will be extremely high when you have.

 

[PSOP Student]

Why would anyone want to go to a pharmacy where you have to wait 2 days to get your meds?

All that being said, at the end of the day, you gotta remember that we are pharmacists. What we do have real consequences.

I see customers going where ever their insurance tells them to go or else they can pay out of pocket for out of network pharmacies on a daily basis. Hell, most prescriptions are being filled at mail order pharmacies now. Providence Oregon is already using Kroger's mail order pharmacy to fill their own employee's prescriptions and made it out-of-network to fill in their own hospital pharmacies.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I see customers going where ever their insurance tells them to go or else they can pay out of pocket for out of network pharmacies on a daily basis. Hell, most prescriptions are being filled at mail order pharmacies now. Providence Oregon is already using Kroger's mail order pharmacy to fill their own employee's prescriptions and made it out-of-network to fill in their own hospital pharmacies.

Eh. Some are but not all. You can opt out of mail order. Also, if its medicare, which majority of indie patients are, mail order is optional and 100% of my patients opt out of mail order lol some are so angry at them they cuss them out on the phone in front of me lol

 

[Hels2007]

Yeah I may have used the word “unicorn” loosely in my original post because I know that pharmacists by nature are passive and unimaginative so they will gravitate towards any fad and think it’s the next best thing since sliced bread. (for the most part, it is being a “clinical pharmacist”)

I meant it more in a way that your list applies to the businesses that are traditional employers of large number of pharmacists and which focus on the practice of pharmacy. I tend to forget that I don't compete against other pharmacists, in fact, only a very small percentage of (already small number) people who do what I do are pharmacists, when I define unicorn jobs... so your list wouldn't be useful in my world, but mine would not be useful to most people on these boards.

 

[PSOP Student]

Eh. Some are but not all. You can opt out of mail order. Also, if its medicare, which majority of indie patients are, mail order is optional and 100% of my patients opt out of mail order lol some are so angry at them they cuss them out on the phone in front of me lol

I just a said that a LARGE hospital in Oregon named Providence switched all their employees over to mail-order or they can pay out of pocket.


So I guess you must think patients are going to pay out of pocket to keep you in business.

 

[bokonon82]

Eh. Some are but not all. You can opt out of mail order. Also, if its medicare, which majority of indie patients are, mail order is optional and 100% of my patients opt out of mail order lol some are so angry at them they cuss them out on the phone in front of me lol

Truth. I've had people mad at me before over something out of my control, and they say "I may as well go mail-order!" or something along those lines. My go to is "Mail order can be great for some people but when you're mad at them or they screw up, you'll never talk to the same person and they'll never have to look you in the eye like I do." Disarms them and works every single time. We have people paying $30 copays for meds they could get from mail-order for free, because they know that if there's a problem, we'll do whatever we can to get it fixed. . . and again. . . we have to look them in the eye.

 

[bokonon82]

I just a said that a LARGE hospital in Oregon named Providence switched all their employees over to mail-order or they can pay out of pocket.


So I guess you must think patients are going to pay out of pocket to keep you in business.

We have a local LARGE hospital system that went the other way, because their employees had so much trouble with mail-order. Now they can come to us or use their own outpatient pharmacy. Getting TONS of prescribers filling with us now. We'll see how it goes with that "LARGE hospital" when the doctors get sick of using mail-order.

 

[JustFillIt]

I just a said that a LARGE hospital in Oregon named Providence switched all their employees over to mail-order or they can pay out of pocket.


So I guess you must think patients are going to pay out of pocket to keep you in business.

Most generic maintenance drugs are cheap enough to circumvent the mail order.

I take a bp medication and i am only set up for mail order on my insurance. I use a local pharmacy and pay cash... May be the difference of 5-10 dollars every 3 months.

 

[PSOP Student]

We have a local LARGE hospital system that went the other way, because their employees had so much trouble with mail-order. Now they can come to us or use their own outpatient pharmacy. Getting TONS of prescribers filling with us now. We'll see how it goes with that "LARGE hospital" when the doctors get sick of using mail-order.

Name the system and then compare it with Providence in Oregon.