DO Yr 3 Electives

[itsadoctor]

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Hiya!

I'm current an OMS-1 but I am just thinking ahead.

I heard that the important electives are near the end of year 3 and beginning of year 4 because by September of year 4 you apply to residencies so it's the best time to make "connections" with residencies you would like to ultimately apply for.

I was thinking about doing two electives abroad in Europe during that time but is this a bad idea?

My logic being that if I do two electives abroad in the time frame above, i'm "missing out" on making connections because it's not like I will be going to residency in Europe.

I was just looking for some tips on when to do the abroad electives:
a. end of year 3 and beginning of year 4
b. after applying to residencies in year 4

Thank you for your help and I apologize if this is the incorrect spot for this/it's a dumb question/is a repeat question.

 

[ortnakas]

If study abroad options are even an option, do them spring of MS4. You’ll want to use MS3 electives to explore US specialties and/or get US letters.

 

[UTsksk]

I guess it's all relative to what you're planning to pursue but it's not a good strategy overall and your school might make that comment to you. End of 3rd and beginning 4th is kind of the peak in your clinical knowledge. You're all up in step 2/comlex 2 so you have random factoids in the memory bank, doing auditions, but most importantly finalizing letters. Overseas letters hold less power than US letters of rec

 

[sab3156]

Away rotations aren't how you "build connections" for residency. If you are looking to establish yourself into a field, end of 3rd year or beginning of 4th year is extremely late. And going overseas sounds like you want to vacation. Why would you do that?

 

[itsadoctor]

Thanks for the replies! 🙂
That makes complete sense.

I've always wanted to do some electives overseas so I can get an understanding on how other countries treat patients with the same illnesses. It's not for vacation. 🙂

 

[MightBeACylon439]

Away rotations aren't how you "build connections" for residency. If you are looking to establish yourself into a field, end of 3rd year or beginning of 4th year is extremely late. And going overseas sounds like you want to vacation. Why would you do that?

This is a very dramatic statement. 1st and 2nd year should be spent studying and doing some research IF you have time. I know way too many people who spent too much time in professional societies getting connections, getting to know the "right" people...then got poor board scores because they didn't spend enough time learning the actual material. Their connections came up dry when they didn't have the board scores to match in the specialty they wanted, and they are now in residencies for specialties they have no desire to train in.

So, the point of that story- the end of third year/beginning of fourth year is not "extremely late." Though, I'm sure you'll have your personal anecdotes that lend evidence to your point of view being the right one.

At any rate, @itsadoctor, study hard and do well on boards because you'll find that the higher your boards score is the easier these "connections" will come to you. Research rotations that give you publications and posters in the specialty you end up wanting to chase, Sub-I's, etc etc all go to those with more attractive stats (boards, this means boards).

That being said- the best time to do abroad rotations (which even if it is a vaction, who cares? Med school is hard #treatyoself) would be either after interview season, or for one of your third year electives. I would recommend against third year elective time because that also doubles as Step 2 studying time, and its harder to study for step two when your swatting away mosquito's because you wanna avoid dengue.

 

[68PGunner]

Hiya!

I'm current an OMS-1 but I am just thinking ahead.

I heard that the important electives are near the end of year 3 and beginning of year 4 because by September of year 4 you apply to residencies so it's the best time to make "connections" with residencies you would like to ultimately apply for.

I was thinking about doing two electives abroad in Europe during that time but is this a bad idea?

My logic being that if I do two electives abroad in the time frame above, i'm "missing out" on making connections because it's not like I will be going to residency in Europe.

I was just looking for some tips on when to do the abroad electives:
a. end of year 3 and beginning of year 4
b. after applying to residencies in year 4

Thank you for your help and I apologize if this is the incorrect spot for this/it's a dumb question/is a repeat question.

I plan to use my electives during third hear to learn about interested specialties, and as warm-ups for my actual rotations early during my 4th year. I plan to get letters from PDs for away rotations early during my 4th year. Residency application opens in Sept of 4th year and your 3rd year ends in June, giving you July and August to rotate at two dream, realistic programs and secure LORs.

 

[It's lupus!]

I'm confused. I thought most schools had set rotations in third year and fourth year was largely elective. Obviously fluctuation exists between schools but I thought that was pretty standard. Am I ill informed here?

Sent from my Pixel XL using SDN mobile

 

[sab3156]

This is a very dramatic statement. 1st and 2nd year should be spent studying and doing some research IF you have time. [...] So, the point of that story- the end of third year/beginning of fourth year is not "extremely late." Though, I'm sure you'll have your personal anecdotes that lend evidence to your point of view being the right one.

A lot of what you're saying isn't really relevant to his question, and a lot of it is quite frankly just horrible advice. We don't know what specialty he wants to do, and no one at all mentioned anything research-related, so how are you giving him advice on when to do research?

In any case, I feel bad for any DO student who is trying to match in any competitive specialty and tries to start doing research and establishing themselves during third year. I feel even worse for anyone who did just that after reading poor advice on SDN.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Away rotations aren't how you "build connections" for residency. If you are looking to establish yourself into a field, end of 3rd year or beginning of 4th year is extremely late. And going overseas sounds like you want to vacation. Why would you do that?

Why not?

On my Away rotations I had plenty of time to talk to the PD or chief residents. A bunch of places I interviewed at told me to come back and do an away with them to show that I was really serious about being there.

 

[sab3156]

Why not?

On my Away rotations I had plenty of time to talk to the PD or chief residents. A bunch of places I interviewed at told me to come back and do an away with them to show that I was really serious about being there.

I mean connections in the sense of mentorship and really getting yourself embedded in the field and having people vouching for you as you apply. I agree with what you're saying, though.

 

[68PGunner]

I'm confused. I thought most schools had set rotations in third year and fourth year was largely elective. Obviously fluctuation exists between schools but I thought that was pretty standard. Am I ill informed here?

Sent from my Pixel XL using SDN mobile

Nope, I have three selectives during 3rd year. All of my rotations during 4th year are selectives with the exception of 3-4 core rotations.

 

[It's lupus!]

Nope, I have three selectives during 3rd year. All of my rotations during 4th year are selectives with the exception of 3-4 core rotations.

Oh interesting. What school?

Sent from my Pixel XL using SDN mobile

 

[MightBeACylon439]

A lot of what you're saying isn't really relevant to his question, and a lot of it is quite frankly just horrible advice. We don't know what specialty he wants to do, and no one at all mentioned anything research-related, so how are you giving him advice on when to do research?

In any case, I feel bad for any DO student who is trying to match in any competitive specialty and tries to start doing research and establishing themselves during third year. I feel even worse for anyone who did just that after reading poor advice on SDN.

lol ok

 

[IslandStyle808]

Away rotations aren't how you "build connections" for residency. If you are looking to establish yourself into a field, end of 3rd year or beginning of 4th year is extremely late. And going overseas sounds like you want to vacation. Why would you do that?

Uh no, this is not correct. Go on the residency forums, you will see many stories of people who got into a residency program by auditioning at them. I've read of one person who go rejected before the away, told the program he was doing away with them, and ended up matching there as his top choice. This is by far the most effective way that DOs have been able to "build connections."

 

[IslandStyle808]

I mean connections in the sense of mentorship and really getting yourself embedded in the field and having people vouching for you as you apply. I agree with what you're saying, though.

Unfortunately not a lot of us go to the older schools, where it is easier to do this. This is why aways are like a god send to us from the non-older schools.

 

[sab3156]

Uh no, this is not correct. Go on the residency forums, you will see many stories of people who got into a residency program by auditioning at them. I've read of one person who go rejected before the away, told the program he was doing away with them, and ended up matching there as his top choice. This is by far the most effective way that DOs have been able to "build connections."

That's pretty anecdotal, and you won't typically read about the ones that didn't make it after auditioning. My information comes from residents/fellows and PDs from a couple of top hospitals, which is more reliable than SDN. By connections I mean doing extended research with influential faculty and having them back you during the application cycle at multiple programs. Contrary to what you're saying, this is the most reliable way to build connections, especially in ultra competitive fields.

And actually MDs with a solid application are typically told not to even do aways in competitive programs they are interested in due to the fact that they will still get interviewed without it and the away is risky at best.

 

[sab3156]

Unfortunately not a lot of us go to the older schools, where it is easier to do this. This is why aways are like a god send to us from the non-older schools.

It has nothing to do with age of the school... it has to do with location. KCUMB is over 100 years old and the pickings for research and getting a mentor are slim at best. Most people will never be able to do anything. CCOM, on the other hand, or NYCOM, are in great locations for research due to sheer number of large academic research programs that are accessible.

 

[68PGunner]

That's pretty anecdotal, and you won't typically read about the ones that didn't make it after auditioning. My information comes from residents/fellows and PDs from a couple of top hospitals, which is more reliable than SDN. By connections I mean doing extended research with influential faculty and having them back you during the application cycle at multiple programs. Contrary to what you're saying, this is the most reliable way to build connections, especially in ultra competitive fields.

And actually MDs with a solid application are typically told not to even do aways in competitive programs they are interested in due to the fact that they will still get interviewed without it and the away is risky at best.

If they have the stats to back it up, then you don’t want to do away rotations as MDs.

However, I have heard of multiple anecdotes of MDs with red flags for Anesthesia like low board scores getting interviewed and ranked by dream programs because of away rotations. The bottom line is that as a DO, you are assumed to be a scum until you have proven otherwise.

 

[sab3156]

The bottom line is that as a DO, you are assumed to be a scum until you have proven otherwise.

Exactly, and really the only reliable way to prove we aren't dog excrement is to have ACGME faculty paving the way during the interview season. Away rotations for the more competitive specialties, like ophtho, typically won't do much for a DO unless they have the big name propping them up. That's when the real connections (influential faculty you've built a professional relationship with) come into the equation. This is what a lot of people experienced and what residents/fellows and PDs have been telling me.

 

[It's lupus!]

These faculty you all speak of, is this through your individual school or are we making connections some other way?

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[hallowmann]

...So, the point of that story- the end of third year/beginning of fourth year is not "extremely late." Though, I'm sure you'll have your personal anecdotes that lend evidence to your point of view being the right one...

Dude's a first year.

These faculty you all speak of, is this through your individual school or are we making connections some other way?

Sent from my Pixel XL using SDN mobile

It helps to have people to vouch for you, but this is really mainly relevant in terms of getting LORs. In terms of getting LORs from notable people in the field, you have to go out of your way to do electives at good places or do research with well known people.

The best way to meet people and demonstrate your presence in any field is by going to conferences (and by this I mean actual conferences of medical specialties - ones that docs in the field are going to for CME, not something like OMED or an AMA conference), and if possible having research to present at those conferences.

That all said, many people do just fine matching in moderately competitive fields without conferences and amazing research. A lot of it really is application strategy and introspection, because if you truly recognize how competitive you are, you can cater your app towards that.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

Dude's a first year.

What crawled up his a%% then?

 

[IslandStyle808]

That's pretty anecdotal, and you won't typically read about the ones that didn't make it after auditioning. My information comes from residents/fellows and PDs from a couple of top hospitals, which is more reliable than SDN. By connections I mean doing extended research with influential faculty and having them back you during the application cycle at multiple programs. Contrary to what you're saying, this is the most reliable way to build connections, especially in ultra competitive fields.

And actually MDs with a solid application are typically told not to even do aways in competitive programs they are interested in due to the fact that they will still get interviewed without it and the away is risky at best.

An MD with a solid application will of course not do aways, if all you care is matching into a decent program. However, if you are not a solid applicant or you are going to a super elite residency (from a low tier school) it does help. I have friends on the MD side who weren't very solid students match into some pretty decent programs with auditions.

DOs in general cannot make the research connection you are talking about so easily. I know people who tried and failed. If it works out, then yes you are right that on should take full advantage of it. However, the next best thing is to an audition if you know you are a solid clinical applicant but a less than average student. You would have to weigh out the risks.

It has nothing to do with age of the school... it has to do with location. KCUMB is over 100 years old and the pickings for research and getting a mentor are slim at best. Most people will never be able to do anything. CCOM, on the other hand, or NYCOM, are in great locations for research due to sheer number of large academic research programs that are accessible.

Yes location does matter, but age of your school does matter also. I'm at a newer school located next to a larger city. I sent 20+ emails to research mentors in my MS-1 summer, and only 1 person got back to me. Age does matter because faculty are used to the place and can connect you with research.

 

[sab3156]

DOs in general cannot make the research connection you are talking about so easily. I know people who tried and failed. If it works out, then yes you are right that on should take full advantage of it. However, the next best thing is to an audition if you know you are a solid clinical applicant but a less than average student. You would have to weigh out the risks.

I agree with you on this.

Yes location does matter, but age of your school does matter also. I'm at a newer school located next to a larger city. I sent 20+ emails to research mentors in my MS-1 summer, and only 1 person got back to me. Age does matter because faculty are used to the place and can connect you with research.

Tons of people at KCUMB can't even get replies back from UMKC and KUMC, so new schools are not alone in this. And KCUMB sends tons of their students to UMKC and KUMC for residencies.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Do you 3rd year here in US, do all the funsy stuff like abroad in 4th year after you match, where you can basically do anything you want - take a "research elective" in beach side hawaii? Shore!

 

[IslandStyle808]

Tons of people at KCUMB can't even get replies back from UMKC and KUMC, so new schools are not alone in this. And KCUMB sends tons of their students to UMKC and KUMC for residencies.

Fair point, I've read about the difficulties KCU students had getting research their.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Do you 3rd year here in US, do all the funsy stuff like abroad in 4th year after you match, where you can basically do anything you want - take a "research elective" in beach side hawaii? Shore!

Your making me home sick brah...

(The medical school is located next to a beach ironically)

 

[jaguar33]

Yes location does matter, but age of your school does matter also. I'm at a newer school located next to a larger city. I sent 20+ emails to research mentors in my MS-1 summer, and only 1 person got back to me. Age does matter because faculty are used to the place and can connect you with research.

I agree with you on this. Tons of people at KCUMB can't even get replies back from UMKC and KUMC, so new schools are not alone in this. And KCUMB sends tons of their students to UMKC and KUMC for residencies.

Lots of people from my school are doing research at the local MD schools (Duke & UNC). They've been very open to having the help.

Campbell's undergrad/pharmacy/law schools have been around a lot longer than their medical school, but finding research probably has more to do with proximity to large research institutions than age of the medical school.

 

[W19]

Nope, I have three selectives during 3rd year. All of my rotations during 4th year are selectives with the exception of 3-4 core rotations.

How does your school fit 3 selectives in 3rd year (selective is kind of the same as elective because schools usually accept almost anything that is not outrageous)? Don't you have to do all the core rotations (IM/FM/Psych/Peds/Surgery/ObGyn/Neuro) in 3rd year? Most schools usually have 1 or 0 elective in 3rd year...

 

[ortnakas]

How does your school fit 3 selectives in 3rd year (selective is kind of the same as elective because schools usually accept almost anything that is not outrageous)? Don't you have to do all the core rotations (IM/FM/Psych/Peds/Surgery/ObGyn/Neuro) in 3rd year? Most schools usually have 1 or 0 elective in 3rd year...

Not that unusual. We had two electives third year (plus IM x3, surg x2, FM, OBGYN, psych, peds, and geriatrics). The classes above mine had an additional core selective before the geriatrics block was added my year.

Away rotations aren't how you "build connections" for residency. If you are looking to establish yourself into a field, end of 3rd year or beginning of 4th year is extremely late. And going overseas sounds like you want to vacation. Why would you do that?

This is one of the main things away rotations ARE for. Two of my four letters came from aways (granted, one was an add-on mid-interview season, but it definitely didn’t hurt).

Regardless, international aways third year are unlikely to do OP any good for their application or education, but spring of fourth year wouldn’t hurt.

OP, If you absolutely must travel before then there’s always mission trips between first and second year (not recommending this for reasons you can use the search function for, but it’s an option).

 

[68PGunner]

Do you 3rd year here in US, do all the funsy stuff like abroad in 4th year after you match, where you can basically do anything you want - take a "research elective" in beach side hawaii? Shore!

When is a good time for me to start scheduling my 4th yr vacation after mid March?

 

[sab3156]

This is one of the main things away rotations ARE for. Two of my four letters came from aways (granted, one was an add-on mid-interview season, but it definitely didn’t hurt).

Of course you do aways for letters. But letters are not the same thing as connections.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Uh no, this is not correct. Go on the residency forums, you will see many stories of people who got into a residency program by auditioning at them. I've read of one person who go rejected before the away, told the program he was doing away with them, and ended up matching there as his top choice. This is by far the most effective way that DOs have been able to "build connections."

What crawled up his a%% then?

He’s trying to convince himself that the people he knew from before medical school will be what get him his competitive residency someday. I’ve done a lot of research into many of the “wow” DO matches of the last few years and none of them had “powerful faculty making calls for them, getting them interviews” like he has proclaimed in about 20 different threads. Getting someone high up to like you only helps you for that specific program. No influential PD is going to call around trying to get some DO residency interviews.

You gotta look like an MD applicant if you want to match like one (and be a little lucky). This means scores, Research, and great LORs on top of being a normal, hard working person.

OP, as to your question, don’t do abroad rotations in 3rd year. That just sounds like a bad plan. Do that after you’ve matched, or better yet, just go on vacation there before residency starts.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

You gotta look like an MD applicant if you want to match like one (and be a little lucky). This means scores, Research, and great LORs on top of being a normal, hard working person.

OP, as to your question, don’t do abroad rotations in 3rd year. That just sounds like a bad plan. Do that after you’ve matched, or better yet, just go on vacation there before residency starts.

This is exactly what I said except in a more succinct, less convoluted way.

 

[sab3156]

A lot of DOs get dumbstruck by the match process due to misinformation given by school..

Actually, I do the opposite of SDN and listen to ACGME faculty/residents who exist in the real world, and send any school related email to spam. It's kind of shocking that people create an alternate reality based on what they read on the internet.

 

[Jinxapotato]

When is a good time for me to start scheduling my 4th yr vacation after mid March?

Our school runs on a 3 month ahead basis, so for me December 2018 would be the latest time that I should get the process started. Before that however, contact your institution of choice, and make sure everything is ready on your end. Schools tend to work better if you place get all the needed paperwork ready and serve to them on a silver platter... I would ask your coordinator for the policy of your school.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Your making me home sick brah...

(The medical school is located next to a beach ironically)

trust me I know...I haven't been home to see my dad in 3 years...School doesn't give us much vacation (and I wasted the 1st Summer on bench research...I want to slap the 1st year me) and I am too broke to fly home and only stay for 3 days...

 

[Chibucks15]

Actually, I do the opposite of SDN and listen to ACGME faculty/residents who exist in the real world, and send any school related email to spam. It's kind of shocking that people create an alternate reality based on what they read on the internet.

Dude I have no idea who these magical people you claim to know are...but I'll listen to the residents and other clinicians on here over your purely anecdotal advice. There is no way you could have talked to nearly enough ACGME residents and faculty, in diverse enough specialities, in different areas of the country, to make these blanket statements you love to make on here. Sure you probably have talked to residents or a PD from 1 or 2 programs, but I do not believe for a second you have statistically significant evidence to back up literally any of your claims about the wide-ranging status of how to get a good residency as a DO across the country. I know several people (DOs...**gasp**) who had matches at 'top' programs without knowing anyone special, just busting their butts on aways, getting to know people that way, and having the stats to back it up. So chill on the all-knowing rhetoric dude.

TLDR;
People match pretty dang well with killing it on aways and having the stats to back it up. You don't have to go out and meet the leaders of medicine early on in your career to give yourself a chance, not saying it won't help, but there are MANY other factors than some people on here would lead you to believe

 

[sab3156]

It's only the DO forum that has this kind of garbage advice.

 

[Chibucks15]

It's only the DO forum that has this kind of garbage advice.

Is it garbage because you say it is? Gimme stats man. You really don't need to meet big wigs in first and second year to match well

 

[sab3156]

Is it garbage because you say it is? Gimme stats man. You really don't need to meet big wigs in first and second year to match well

No one's talking about FM and Peds, bud. You'll get different advice on the competitive subforums. Doesn't have to be massive big wigs, but you are misinformed if you think Ophtho/Ortho/ENT programs have a reason to interview a DO without great research connections and letters from known faculty. I have spoken to and am friends with residents from about 10 different ophtho residency programs (mid tier and upper tier), doing fellowships at the major academic center I was working at for clinical research... they all said the same thing. In fact, a couple of them said that their residency program directors simply did not even open the DO applications (this is a couple of mid tier programs). The only thing they said that would convince them to interview a DO was a trustworthy and known faculty member, either at their program or abroad, telling them that the DO was great (letters/phone call/etc.).

You'll read the same thing from people on the ophtho subforum. There is no need to get angry about it. It's reality. 28 ACGME ophtho applications from the DO side this year, only 10 matched. Guess what those 10 probably had in common? I personally know a few people who matched from the DO side in previous years, and it was their letters and networking (through research) that got them where they are. I have never heard of a single DO matching into Ophtho who matched on the basis of his stats and nothing more. And away rotations are another can of worms, with MD applicants with decent stats and home program letters being told to not even do them because they are more likely to turn people off instead of impress. That should tell you how unreliable it is.

But go ask on the Ophtho forum to see people in the actually specialty are saying, since you don't have anyone in real life to talk to about it.

 

[Chibucks15]

No one's talking about FM and Peds, bud. You'll get different advice on the ophtho subforum.

I'm not talking about FM and Peds...I'm talking in general. Sure you can pick the most competitive specialties out there but those will be hard for MD and DO alike. I've never said it wont be a lot harder for DOs, and for some specialties you need to be MD. I'm not delusional. Yet in all these doom and gloom posts you have about being a DO you have yet to give 1 statistic backing up any of your blanket claims and that's all i'm asking for

 

[Chibucks15]

No one's talking about FM and Peds, bud. You'll get different advice on the competitive subforums. Doesn't have to be massive big wigs, but you are misinformed if you think Ophtho/Ortho/ENT programs have a reason to interview a DO without great research connections and letters from known faculty. I have spoken to and am friends with residents from about 10 different ophtho residency programs (mid tier and upper tier), doing fellowships at the major academic center I was working at for clinical research... they all said the same thing. In fact, a couple of them said that their residency program directors simply did not even open the DO applications (this is a couple of mid tier programs). The only thing they said that would convince them to interview a DO was a trustworthy and known faculty member, either at their program or abroad, telling them that the DO was great (letters/phone call/etc.).

You'll read the same thing from people on the ophtho subforum. There is no need to get angry about it. It's reality. 28 ACGME ophtho applications from the DO side this year, only 10 matched. Guess what those 10 probably had in common? I personally know a few people who matched from the DO side in previous years, and it was their letters and networking that got them where they are. I have never heard of a single DO matching into Ophtho who matched on the basis of his stats and nothing more.

But go ask on the Ophtho forum to see people in the actually specialty are saying, since you don't have anyone in real life to talk to about it.

Nice edit...and subtle dig on me not having Optho connections nice. Again, I never said anything about specific specialties and if you want the top of the top then make yourself competitive enough to go MD. If you don't do that then that's on you/ But for all the people who peruse this site like I used to and don't know a lot about the process it doesn't help them making all these blanket statements. The most competitive specialties are competitive for a reason and will be competitive both MD and DO. Most DOs I've met aren't gunners and know what they signed up for. I'm sorry you didn't

 

[sab3156]

Most DOs I've met aren't gunners and know what they signed up for. I'm sorry you didn't

I did know, which is why I'm not in a position of deluding myself. Saying that tired old line "competitive for both MD and DO" is hardly accurate. Again go talk to real people in the field, or just go on the subforums and ask residents so they can set you straight. DO schools don't have any guidance and it leads to this kind of stuff on the DO forum.

 

[Chibucks15]

I did know, which is why I'm not in that position. I don't like to delude myself. Saying that tired old line "competitive both MD and DO" is hardly accurate.

Okay whatever you say bud. You must be fun at parties

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The only thing they said that would convince them to interview a DO was a trustworthy and known faculty member, either at their program or abroad, telling them that the DO was great (letters/phone call/etc.)

Yes they do all have this is common. The big difference between what you are saying and reality is the these connections were all built ON AWAY ROTATIONS. Away rotations are how DOs have always been able to make connections and get good letters.

 

[IslandStyle808]

And away rotations are another can of worms, with MD applicants with decent stats and home program letters being told to not even do them because they are more likely to turn people off instead of impress. That should tell you how unreliable it is.

This is common knowledge even amongst DOs that aways can hurt you (its not like its never been stated on here). However, you are a DO student and not an MD student. This is where the advice stated becomes murky.

MD schools have home programs and the MD initials. So if they have good stats, it hurts them far more to go on an away rotation. DO schools don't have home programs for most specialties, plus they face non-LCME filters. So doing an away for a DO student with good stats, does far more good than harm.

That advice given to you was from the context of a person who understands the MD world well, but is not used to dealing with DOs. An MD student who doesn't do an away but has good stats, will get consideration from these mid to top programs. However, a DO student who has "even better stats" and doesn't do an away won't get the time of day from the same programs. The gains are far greater than the losses for away rotations on the DO side. This is what we are trying to state here. Trust me I spend time on all forums (ex. DO, MD, residency, fellowship etc.) so I have tried to understand this from all sides.

 

[sab3156]

Trust me I spend time on all forums (ex. DO, MD, residency, fellowship etc.) so I have tried to understand this from all sides.

I agree that you will have to do away rotations (I mean, we don't even have a home program in most DO schools), but you shouldn't expect to network your way into a program that way. Those are pretty unrealistic expectations for a DO. The best way for a DO to match is to do extensive research with a strong ACGME program. It is simply the fact of the matter. I worked in clinical research at a top program and know this from talking to a lot of people who are/were involved in resident selection at top and mid-tier programs in Ophtho. No one had any different opinion about it. It's really only the DO and pre-DO forums on SDN that we see horrible advice like "start doing research in 3rd year" and "you can match into ENT as long as you have a good application."

 

[Cath Up]

I agree that you will have to do away rotations (I mean, we don't even have a home program in most DO schools), but you shouldn't expect to network your way into a program that way. Those are pretty unrealistic expectations for a DO. The best way for a DO to match is to do extensive research with a strong ACGME program. It is simply the fact of the matter. I worked in clinical research at a top program and know this from talking to a lot of people who are/were involved in resident selection at top and mid-tier programs in Ophtho. No one had any different opinion about it. It's really only the DO and pre-DO forums on SDN that we see horrible advice like "start doing research in 3rd year" and "you can match into ENT as long as you have a good application."

To be clear, are you advocating that one should pursue research with an ACGME residency-affiliated institution in a field that one is interested in during first and second year? Is there a strategic way to do this other than cold call/email or ask your professors if they know anyone at that institution?