Doctor Respect

[QuikClot]

Meningitis will not respond to the placebo effect. The bacteria just don't care. Maybe laughter and happy-happy thoughts will lower your stress level and give your immune system a tiny kick but pretty much you are ****ed without antibiotics.

Same with diabetes. You can have a terrific outlook and believe wholeheartedly in the healing power of the Otter God and his Otter Demons but it's the insulin that's going to keep you alive.

I see he’s trying to communicate, but it’s no use: I don’t speak Bigoted Ignoramus.

A final thought on respect: whether you are a doctor or a streetsweeper, respect is mostly a function of personality, of character. Those who deserve respect, and show respect to others, will be respected. Insecure people who derive self-esteem from deriding others will not be respected, regardless of their profession.

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[CTSballer11]

When I first read this thread I thought it was a joke. Boy was I wrong. I guess I am an evil, ignorant, and racist person who does not respect foreign cultures.

Panda Bear comes off strong but he is the only one that is logical.

 

[Faebinder]

When I first read this thread I thought it was a joke. Boy was I wrong. I guess I am an evil, ignorant, and racist person who does not respect foreign cultures.

Panda Bear comes off strong but he is the only one that is logical.

Agreed.

 

[Miami_med]

Conservatism . . . one of the three most common signs a person is developmentally delayed.

Here is the problem with this logic. The non-western remedies of which you are speaking are the ultimate in conservatism, which you speak against. A 2000 year old ritual has some great value, while a value system that is 50 years old or even 10 years old is somehow only espoused by people who are "delayed."

You sound like one of those classic car people. A hunk of junk becomes somehow superior because it managed to make it 20 years. This doesn't make it a better car. This blanket statement about conservative thought is the most insulting statement that has been made by anyone on this thread.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Conservatism . . . one of the three most common signs a person is developmentally delayed.

Wow, are you going to have fun in medical school, because most of your professors will be developmentally delayed. In any event I am reminded of a quote, often falsely attributed to Winston Churchill, but whose actual author is unknown: "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." In other words, grow up QuikClot.

- H

 

[8744]

....we realize the failings of Western Medicine. It's great for trauma, surgery, diagnosis, but a total failure with chronic diseases. It's also way behind the current sciences but you probably already know that...

You are utterly delusional. I'm sure our friends in the primary care community would take exception to your claim that they are total failures in the management of chronic diseases. In fact, they do a superlative job managing things like asthma, diabetes, and hypertension in thier compliant patients.

How do witch doctors deal with their non-compliant patients?

"I stopped sacrificing turtles to the Otter God because it was cutting into my beer money."


Additionally, if medicine is behind the current science it's only because science advances at such a breakneck pace that it's impossible to keep up. Maybe we are two or three years behind the cutting edge research but it beats being 20,000 years behind.

 

[8744]

Actually, I'm in a very well respected program run by a medical anthropologist and psychologist (www.thefourwinds.com) and a high ethical standard is really pushed.

Curriculum:
1st Soul Retrieval
2nd Working with the Sacred
3rd Advanced Divination and Seeing
4th Advanced Soul Retrieval

Dude.

 

[8744]

First Session - Illumination

The Illumination process clears the energy loops that predispose us to malignant physical and emotional conditions, erases imprints of disease in the Luminous Energy Field, and brings about healing at the blueprint level of our being. You begin the mystery teachings with The Serpent Path of the South, and start transforming your wounds into sources of power and compassion.

Second Session - Extraction

In this training we discover how energies such as fear, envy, and anger can penetrate the Luminous Energy Field. You learn how to extract both crystallized energies and intrusive energies and entities, changing your affinities for toxic persons and situations. The Jaguar Path of the West is the way of the peaceful warrior, where we learn to step beyond fear and violence.

Third Session - Soul Retrieval

Soul Retrieval leads us on a journey back to the Essential Self. It can accomplish in a few sessions what can sometimes take years to work through in psychotherapy. In the Hummingbird Path of the North we learn the mystery teachings that can be "known but not told."

Fourth Session - Great Rites

We learn how to assist a loved one on their final journey and personally discover the maps of the afterlife described by the great spiritual traditions of the world. The Eagle Path of the East is the way of the visionary. In the East you learn to "dream the world into being", and discover how energy and vision create form and manifestation.


I mean, come on....Dude...you're not right.

 

[footcramp]

Curriculum:
1st Soul Retrieval
2nd Working with the Sacred
3rd Advanced Divination and Seeing
4th Advanced Soul Retrieval

Dude.

wow i thought you were just being mean but actually says that on the site lol

 

[8744]

wow i thought you were just being mean but actually says that on the site lol

It is, as they say, beyond parody.

 

[debvz]

So what we've learned is:

* There is something called "a heart transplant of hemodialysis," which evidently proves that Westerners are superior to non-Westerners. Funny thing, I'll bet even people with "bones through their noses" could deduce that a heart transplant is the transplant of a heart, not of hemodialysis. But the beauty of Western medicine is, with its great machines and technology, PB doesn't need a functioning brain.

I, like many Westerners, can recognize a typo when I see one, and can correctly interpret the intended statement as "a heart transplant or hemodialysis".....

 

[toofache32]

Conservatism . . . one of the three most common signs a person is developmentally delayed.

Liberalism...one of the three most common signs a person has no backbone.

 

[zenman]

You are utterly delusional. I'm sure our friends in the primary care community would take exception to your claim that they are total failures in the management of chronic diseases. In fact, they do a superlative job managing things like asthma, diabetes, and hypertension in thier compliant patients.

I may be delusional but I was relaying what I read from the WHO, your peers and from the same medical journals you are suposed to be reading.

Additionally, if medicine is behind the current science it's only because science advances at such a breakneck pace that it's impossible to keep up. Maybe we are two or three years behind the cutting edge research but it beats being 20,000 years behind.

It's about 100 years behind the current sciences...physics for example. True that it is impossible to keep up.

 

[zenman]

First Session - Illumination

The Illumination process clears the energy loops that predispose us to malignant physical and emotional conditions, erases imprints of disease in the Luminous Energy Field, and brings about healing at the blueprint level of our being. You begin the mystery teachings with The Serpent Path of the South, and start transforming your wounds into sources of power and compassion.

Second Session - Extraction

In this training we discover how energies such as fear, envy, and anger can penetrate the Luminous Energy Field. You learn how to extract both crystallized energies and intrusive energies and entities, changing your affinities for toxic persons and situations. The Jaguar Path of the West is the way of the peaceful warrior, where we learn to step beyond fear and violence.

Third Session - Soul Retrieval

Soul Retrieval leads us on a journey back to the Essential Self. It can accomplish in a few sessions what can sometimes take years to work through in psychotherapy. In the Hummingbird Path of the North we learn the mystery teachings that can be "known but not told."

Fourth Session - Great Rites

We learn how to assist a loved one on their final journey and personally discover the maps of the afterlife described by the great spiritual traditions of the world. The Eagle Path of the East is the way of the visionary. In the East you learn to "dream the world into being", and discover how energy and vision create form and manifestation.


I mean, come on....Dude...you're not right.

Ha, ha, isn't that some cool stuff! You guys can ONLY "see" a patient from one viewpoint and that one is by using very few of your senses. Here's a good book for you guys...so you can catch up..."Imagery in Healing: Shamanism and Modern Medicine" by Jeanne Achterberg.

Oh, crap, here's some by M.D.s; Shaman, MD, by Eve Bruce, M.D.; Coyote Healing, Lewis Mehl-Madrona, M.D., Ph.D.; and Shaman Wisdon, Shaman Healing by Michael Samuels, M.D.

The "magic" is in the belief attached to the ritual, for example...just like the ritual when a sharp dressed, gray haired, famous doc enters a room with 40 of his underlings and tells a patient that he is going to give him a drug that will do the trick.

Come on guys, you're not thinking. Gonna be a test on this

 

[zenman]

Meningitis will not respond to the placebo effect. The bacteria just don't care. Maybe laughter and happy-happy thoughts will lower your stress level and give your immune system a tiny kick but pretty much you are ****ed without antibiotics.

I think about every condition on the face of the earth has responded to placebo at some time or other...and for some reason that pisses people off.

 

[zenman]

As you recall, people used to die from diabetes.

You mean they don't NOW? Or do they just live longer while you chop off parts up to their groin?

 

[zenman]

http://www.dr2healer.com/drw_shaman.htm

Test tomorrow

 

[8744]

You mean they don't NOW? Or do they just live longer while you chop off parts up to their groin?

I don't know. What does the Otter God say about it? I'll channel the earth spirits and get back to you.

Dude. Somewhere on this vast internet of ours there are places where you can pedddle yer' snake oil to credulous, rich, bored, self-centered baby-boomers searching for meaning in their otherwise spiritually ******ed lives but this might not be the place. At least don't expect to get the free pass you no doubt get from the beautiful people who are your clients.

"Luminous energy fields." Riiiight.

 

[8744]

You mean they don't NOW? Or do they just live longer while you chop off parts up to their groin?

No. they used to die in childhood, essentially of starvation, as their pancreas self-destructed. You're confusing non-compliant patients who refuse to modify their diet, monitor their sugar, and take their meds with the majority of those who are interested in their health and lead otherwise normal lives thanks to that Demon Western Medicine.

 

[Wackie]

FWIW, my dad traded the pigs hooves and herbs for the demon western medicine when he realized the pigs hooves and herbs weren't working for him like promised.


I'm sure he just wasn't spirit dancing with as much enthusiasm as he should have been, but that's hard for a 70 year old man to do.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

You guys can ONLY "see" a patient from one viewpoint and that one is by using very few of your senses.

This is true. I'm a much better student doctor since I've been diagnosing by sense of smell.

 

[CTSballer11]

I was with my uncle today and he had a patient who had acute renal failure and instead of using evil western medicine we called upon the shaman. His mighty presence along with his pixy dust and strange humming saved the day. Ode to the Shaman!!!

 

[footcramp]

yeah dude, using all my senses, parallel universes, and superstring antimatter resources totally helped me be a better doctor. i have the advantage of seeing things in 10 dimensions. at least 9 of which are useful. i'm sure the last one is too, but that's part of my phd thesis at hogwarts this year.

 

[Smilemaker100]

Which doctor specialties are the specialties that are respected by everyone?

I think they are 1) neurosurgery and 2) cardiothoracic surgery.

I don't think there is any specialty in particular which earns more of my respect. Regardless of what branch of medicine a doctor practices, as long as he/she puts all his/her heart and soul into his/her job, he/she will earn my respect. I also personally have a lot of respect for doctors who treat their underpriviledged patients as well as they treat their privately insured patients.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I don't think there is any specialty in particular which earns more of my respect. Regardless of what branch of medicine a doctor practices, as long as he/she puts all his/her heart and soul into his/her job, he/she will earn my respect. I also personally have a lot of respect for doctors who treat their underpriviledged patients as well as they treat their privately insured patients.

BZZZZT!

Let me guess... you copied-and-pasted this from your med school secondary app, right?

But the question was, what is more respected by society, including the average Jane Smith who doesn't spend her time trying to make herself seem so good and moral on an anonymous message board.

Of course, things in the thread quickly degenerated into a Western vs. Eastern medicine debate, and I mean "degenerated" in a good way.

 

[Smilemaker100]

BZZZZT!

Let me guess... you copied-and-pasted this from your med school secondary app, right?

But the question was, what is more respected by society, including the average Jane Smith who doesn't spend her time trying to make herself seem so good and moral on an anonymous message board.

Of course, things in the thread quickly degenerated into a Western vs. Eastern medicine debate, and I mean "degenerated" in a good way.

No, you are completely off. I never applied to medical school. I am a dentist and am happy being one. I am not trying to make myself seem good and moral on an anonymous message board. I am expressing exactly what I think. I don t give a s**t if people agree with my opinion or not and am not afraid to speak my mind.

Yes, I know the question was asking which specialty is more respected by the general populace but I cannot answer that question so I gave my own opinion.

 

[russellb]

It's about 100 years behind the current sciences...physics for example. True that it is impossible to keep up.

Really? It's 100 years behind in physics?

Please explain to us how Magnetic Resonance Imaging is achieved. How about Gamma Knife and certain forms of radiation therapy.

I recall a discussion some time ago in which you implied that the alternative therapies which interest you somehow incorporate Quantum Physics, yet your knowledge of Quantum Physics is woefully thin to the point where you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

It's kind of a truism in the alt med world to say that your therapies work using Quantum Physics, despite the complete lack of evidence for any such phenomenon.

 

[zenman]

Really? It's 100 years behind in physics?

Please explain to us how Magnetic Resonance Imaging is achieved. How about Gamma Knife and certain forms of radiation therapy.

Sorry my comment might have been confusing. Western medicine is 100 years behind Quantum Physics. Claus Schnorrenberger, M.D. says that if a physicist were to attend a medical convention, he would think that he had been thrown back into the dark ages!

“Yet organic chemistry provides the mechanistic foundation for biomedicine; and as Weinhold notes, that branch of science is so far out of date that its textbooks have yet to recognize quantum physics. Conventional medical researchers have no understanding of the molecular mechanisms that truly provide for life.”…Bruce Lipton, Ph.D.

I recall a discussion some time ago in which you implied that the alternative therapies which interest you somehow incorporate Quantum Physics, yet your knowledge of Quantum Physics is woefully thin to the point where you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

It's kind of a truism in the alt med world to say that your therapies work using Quantum Physics, despite the complete lack of evidence for any such phenomenon.

Quantum physics explains much of what happens in alternative therapies. The physicists Fritjof Capra, Fred Alan Wolf and Amit Goswami do a good job of explaining this. Fritz Smith, M.D. also explains the concept of energy in western terms.

Shamans understand that everything is made of light and that it forms matter. In some things, the light is bound tightly as in trees and stones, while in others it is more fluid, such as water. Modern physics say that when you look deeply enough, all matter is vibration and light. So, this was known thousands of years ago by those with well developed senses.

Proof of nonlocality at the quantum level is a recent scientific breakthrough, yet for shamans it’s old news.

My teacher, Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D. once was slicing and dicing brain tissue looking for consciousness. He says he was looking in the wrong end of the microscope…instead of looking smaller and smaller, he should have been looking larger and larger. To me, a reductionist approach works well with machines, but is not the way to work with humans.

FYI…I have respect for all forms of medicine...they have much benefit…but all have their limitations...so all should be aware of what the other has to offer.

 

[group_theory]

Sorry my comment might have been confusing. Western medicine is 100 years behind Quantum Physics. Claus Schnorrenberger, M.D. says that if a physicist were to attend a medical convention, he would think that he had been thrown back into the dark ages!

“Yet organic chemistry provides the mechanistic foundation for biomedicine; and as Weinhold notes, that branch of science is so far out of date that its textbooks have yet to recognize quantum physics. Conventional medical researchers have no understanding of the molecular mechanisms that truly provide for life.”…Bruce Lipton, Ph.D.



Quantum physics explains much of what happens in alternative therapies. The physicists Fritjof Capra, Fred Alan Wolf and Amit Goswami do a good job of explaining this. Fritz Smith, M.D. also explains the concept of energy in western terms.

Shamans understand that everything is made of light and that it forms matter. In some things, the light is bound tightly as in trees and stones, while in others it is more fluid, such as water. Modern physics say that when you look deeply enough, all matter is vibration and light. So, this was known thousands of years ago by those with well developed senses.

Proof of nonlocality at the quantum level is a recent scientific breakthrough, yet for shamans it’s old news.

My teacher, Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D. once was slicing and dicing brain tissue looking for consciousness. He says he was looking in the wrong end of the microscope…instead of looking smaller and smaller, he should have been looking larger and larger. To me, a reductionist approach works well with machines, but is not the way to work with humans.

FYI…I have respect for all forms of medicine...they have much benefit…but all have their limitations...so all should be aware of what the other has to offer.

If you talk to Physics PhDs in academia, one of their pet peeves is non-physics people with only a barely superficial understanding of the concepts in physics and applying the concept to non-physics related stuff. It's nice how you tried to apply string theory to alternative treatment/shamanism. Why not bring in extradimensions and quantum wormholes while you're at it too to explain how shamanism have been helping people for thousands of years. Heck, why not go as far as to say that fluctuation in Higgs field is responsible for health or disease. Even better, a singularity is where the science of physics and medicine joins with spiritualism to form a cohesive unit.

As as far as I know, there hasn't been any experimental evidence to show that string theory or M-theory is true - unless you've seen and detected proton decay - in which case some very smart people in Stockholm will like to give you a lovely medal and some cash



Now I believe that the mind and spirit plays an integral role in health and sickness. But western medicine has its great advantages - mostly based on scientific principles and trials/errors. Positive thinking and natural alternatives will not cure AML, but i firmly believe that positive thinking along with western treatment (whether it's chemo or tx or something else) can improve one's 5 year survival rate. To discount the power and influences of the mind is foolish. Likewise, to discount the advances and lives saved with western medicine is also foolish.

 

[oldManDO2009]

I see he’s trying to communicate, but it’s no use: I don’t speak Bigoted Ignoramus.

A final thought on respect: whether you are a doctor or a streetsweeper, respect is mostly a function of personality, of character. Those who deserve respect, and show respect to others, will be respected. Insecure people who derive self-esteem from deriding others will not be respected, regardless of their profession.

So you’re saying you should not insult other people as you insult them as noted above???

PB is refuting zenman's diatribe on spiritual healing and its vast superiority over our pathetic reductionist medicine. The problem is that one cures/manages disease and the other is a complete waste of time. I'll let you choose Q since your opinions are often peppered with quotes and numbers proving your point. So let’s see some numbers on Shaman medicine!

 

[oldManDO2009]

Sorry my comment might have been confusing. Western medicine is 100 years behind Quantum Physics. Claus Schnorrenberger, M.D. says that if a physicist were to attend a medical convention, he would think that he had been thrown back into the dark ages!

“Yet organic chemistry provides the mechanistic foundation for biomedicine; and as Weinhold notes, that branch of science is so far out of date that its textbooks have yet to recognize quantum physics. Conventional medical researchers have no understanding of the molecular mechanisms that truly provide for life.”…Bruce Lipton, Ph.D.



Quantum physics explains much of what happens in alternative therapies. The physicists Fritjof Capra, Fred Alan Wolf and Amit Goswami do a good job of explaining this. Fritz Smith, M.D. also explains the concept of energy in western terms.

Shamans understand that everything is made of light and that it forms matter. In some things, the light is bound tightly as in trees and stones, while in others it is more fluid, such as water. Modern physics say that when you look deeply enough, all matter is vibration and light. So, this was known thousands of years ago by those with well developed senses.

Proof of nonlocality at the quantum level is a recent scientific breakthrough, yet for shamans it’s old news.

My teacher, Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D. once was slicing and dicing brain tissue looking for consciousness. He says he was looking in the wrong end of the microscope…instead of looking smaller and smaller, he should have been looking larger and larger. To me, a reductionist approach works well with machines, but is not the way to work with humans.

FYI…I have respect for all forms of medicine...they have much benefit…but all have their limitations...so all should be aware of what the other has to offer.

Standard zenman post - he quotes all these authors with initials as if that will lend credibility to his point. I to am a nurse but I am in med school- what he is missing is the scientific underpinnings learned in medical school. So once again, he has no idea what he is talking about but will quote heavily in an attempt to legitimize his point. PB's curriculum post should say it all....

 

[zenman]

If you talk to Physics PhDs in academia, one of their pet peeves is non-physics people with only a barely superficial understanding of the concepts in physics and applying the concept to non-physics related stuff. It's nice how you tried to apply string theory to alternative treatment/shamanism.

Don't you wonder why you reply as such when I quoted physicists? Are you having comprehension difficulties? It's not me, dude, it's experts in the field, including physicists who have studied shamanism.

 

[zenman]

So you’re saying you should not insult other people as you insult them as noted above???

PB is refuting zenman's diatribe on spiritual healing and its vast superiority over our pathetic reductionist medicine. The problem is that one cures/manages disease and the other is a complete waste of time. I'll let you choose Q since your opinions are often peppered with quotes and numbers proving your point. So let’s see some numbers on Shaman medicine!

Your projection is showing through. I'll use Western medicine when appropriate but will not for one minute think that is has all the answers. Perhaps others think the same way as witnessed by the numbers looking elsewhere.

 

[zenman]

Standard zenman post - he quotes all these authors with initials as if that will lend credibility to his point. I to am a nurse but I am in med school- what he is missing is the scientific underpinnings learned in medical school. So once again, he has no idea what he is talking about but will quote heavily in an attempt to legitimize his point. PB's curriculum post should say it all....

The reason I'm quoting your peers is exactly that ...to lend credibility...but you don't even consider them to have any brains do you, LOL! And yes, your scientific underpinnings are not where you think they are.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Don't you wonder why you reply as such when I quoted physicists? Are you having comprehension difficulties? It's not me, dude, it's experts in the field, including physicists who have studied shamanism.

Bruce Lipton is no more an academian than Lorraine Day is a physician. Quacks and snakeoil salepeople come with all sorts of letters after their names.

- H

 

[8744]

Quantum physics explains much of what happens in alternative therapies. The physicists Fritjof Capra, Fred Alan Wolf and Amit Goswami do a good job of explaining this. Fritz Smith, M.D. also explains the concept of energy in western terms.

Shamans understand that everything is made of light and that it forms matter. In some things, the light is bound tightly as in trees and stones, while in others it is more fluid, such as water. Modern physics say that when you look deeply enough, all matter is vibration and light. So, this was known .

You know about as much about quantum physics as you do about medicine, namely little or nothing and what you do know you seem to have gleaned from comic books.

Buddy, I have no objection whatsoever to your fleecing the idle rich with your snake-oil du jour. They're silly, self-centered, spiritually ******ed people who can probably afford to fly to Peru to consort with Umahupu, the Golden Energy Llamma. I'm a caveat emptor kind of guy and since medicaid and medicare don't cover your kind of foolishness, it's unlikely that you're hurting anybody who can't afford it. So more power to you. You just provide more proof, as if any more was required, that the baby boomers are the most egotistical and frankly naive generation in American history.

Still, I'm puzzled why you think that you can shill your patent medicine here to people who have advanced degrees in medicine, biology, engineering, and chemistry as most of us around here do. It's almost insulting that you think we're as gullible as your typical clients.

 

[8744]

Your projection is showing through. I'll use Western medicine when appropriate but will not for one minute think that is has all the answers. Perhaps others think the same way as witnessed by the numbers looking elsewhere.

Did you ever consider that you are just stupid? I mean this kindly, hard as it is to believe, but despite the degrees that you claim to have, maybe an advanced degree in "Spirit Wrangling" might just not be that academically challenging.

 

[Vox Animo]

You know about as much about quantum physics as you do about medicine, namely little or nothing and what you do know you seem to have gleaned from comic books.

Buddy, I have no objection whatsoever to your fleecing the idle rich with your snake-oil du jour. They're silly, self-centered, spiritually ******ed people who can probably afford to fly to Peru to consort with Umahupu, the Golden Energy Llamma. I'm a caveat emptor kind of guy and since medicaid and medicare don't cover your kind of foolishness, it's unlikely that you're hurting anybody who can't afford it. So more power to you. You just provide more proof, as if any more was required, that the baby boomers are the most egotistical and frankly naive generation in American history.

Still, I'm puzzled why you think that you can shill your patent medicine here to people who have advanced degrees in medicine, biology, engineering, and chemistry as most of us around here do. It's almost insulting that you think we're as gullible as your typical clients.

You obviously are not in touch with your spiritual side. The NIH shows tHat the leakage of bad karma increases occurance of malpratice up to 27% +/- 2
It also decreases capacity to tolerate human stupidity

 

[toofache32]

Good grief. How do I unsubscribe from this thread?

 

[zenman]

Bruce Lipton is no more an academian than Lorraine Day is a physician. Quacks and snakeoil salepeople come with all sorts of letters after their names.

- H

I thought he taught in at least a couple of medical schools...but I guess that does not mean anything.

 

[zenman]

You know about as much about quantum physics as you do about medicine, namely little or nothing and what you do know you seem to have gleaned from comic books.

I don't read comic books but I can quote experts just as you do to your boss resident at the bedside.

... it's unlikely that you're hurting anybody who can't afford it. So more power to you.

Yes, think about shamanism for a moment...it provides healing for the practitioner, client, and respect for nature and the human condition. Your training tears you apart, and almost every thing you do harms in some way. What a concept.

Still, I'm puzzled why you think that you can shill your patent medicine here to people who have advanced degrees in medicine, biology, engineering, and chemistry as most of us around here do. It's almost insulting that you think we're as gullible as your typical clients.

The physician scientist that was in my class said that he had to be careful discussing this also, but privately many physicians told him of their frustrations in their practice and he told them what he was doing. But you are probably young and idealistic ...but that's ok. The reason I can do it is because I've been in healthcare 33 years and have seen a lot. All I'm suggesting is that you realize there is more than what you know and just keep in the back of your mind...when nothing else is working...that the patients might want to know of other options. Here's why:

Alberto Villoldo...Susan...university professor with incapacitating migraines...I could see pools of dark energy swirling above her head...after treating her, it ws still there. I insisted she go back to her doctor and have an MRI. The docs refused saying there was nothing to justify an MRI and that if she wanted it she would have to pay for it. She told the docs her shaman ordered it and she paid for it. The MRI showed a growth the size of an egg next to her pituitary gland...it was not malignant.

Michael Samuels, M.D....the patient was old...dehydration, pneumonia, comatose...I had two IVs and antibiotics going...I was probably the only doctor to call in a medicine man into the hospital...the rules forbid it at that time... he entered her room like the wind...he bought in power and light... drums, rattles, etc...(details about what he did)...the medicine man stopped...the woman sat up in bed like a shot...in a couple of days her family took her home....I went back to my exhausting routine...but I saw that during the healing a darkness left her body and a bright light came into her.

Just keep it in mind...too many of your peers are witnessing things like this.

 

[russellb]

I thought he taught in at least a couple of medical schools...but I guess that does not mean anything.

It means little. He hasn't been on faculty at a medical school in over a decade and his PhD is in anatomy. He has no credentials in Quantum Physics. He has produced no peer reviewed scientific articles (none listed on pubmed, anyhow) in the areas that he now promotes.

 

[footcramp]

zenman, your stories of healing fascinate me. please tell me more of these success stories.

i have a story from nigeria. one day a kind nigerian gentleman contacted me in great distress. you see, his government had sequestered all his fairy dust due to the recent uprising against "voodoo practices." several weeks later his great grandson was taken ill by an evil force. the only way to save him was to create a healing potion, and fairy dust was desperately needed to complete it. fortunately, this nigerian saved some in a bank vault in switzerland. the only problem was that due to his position as a respected civil servant, he was unable to withdrawal this fairy dust without compromising his identity, and thus getting in trouble with the local government. to make a long story short i sent several sums of money to both this gentleman and the bank in switzerland. he wrote back and thanked me for helping to heal his grandson. the boy is now playing soccer for the national team.

 

[zenman]

zenman, your stories of healing fascinate me. please tell me more of these success stories.

i have a story from nigeria. one day a kind nigerian gentleman contacted me in great distress. you see, his government had sequestered all his fairy dust due to the recent uprising against "voodoo practices." several weeks later his great grandson was taken ill by an evil force. the only way to save him was to create a healing potion, and fairy dust was desperately needed to complete it. fortunately, this nigerian saved some in a bank vault in switzerland. the only problem was that due to his position as a respected civil servant, he was unable to withdrawal this fairy dust without compromising his identity, and thus getting in trouble with the local government. to make a long story short i sent several sums of money to both this gentleman and the bank in switzerland. he wrote back and thanked me for helping to heal his grandson. the boy is now playing soccer for the national team.

Yep, I'd say you are really in need of any kind of help you can get. What's your GPA?

 

[footcramp]

well now that you brought it up, conventional western methods haven't really worked too well. it could definitely use some extra help. maybe if you sprinkle some hippo bones and polar bear gallbladder powder on my transcript, water it with blue whale semen, give it plenty of light that has passed through sacred rainbow crystals, and tell it daily jokes and inspirational stories, it'll transform back to AOA status. what do you think?

 

[zenman]

well now that you brought it up, conventional western methods haven't really worked too well.

Oh, it works well sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.

it could definitely use some extra help. maybe if you sprinkle some hippo bones and polar bear gallbladder powder on my transcript, water it with blue whale semen, give it plenty of light that has passed through sacred rainbow crystals, and tell it daily jokes and inspirational stories, it'll transform back to AOA status. what do you think?

What's really scary is some of you guys are going to be doctors...or are already...and have an elementary level of knowledge about how the mind affects the body...really scary! There's a lot of good research out there...any idea why Candace Pert now believes in more than western sciences?

There's hope for you though...you have a good imagination...so could make a good shaman, LOL! Does "the world is as you dream it" mean anything to you?

 

[8744]

...I don't read comic books but I can quote experts just as you do to your boss resident at the bedside...

You are falling into the same trap as our creationist friends, namely trying to prove a spiritual concept which as it is supernatural defies proof (or disproof) with empirical arguments. The result of this is that you come across as a crackpot. If you believe in the Jaguar Spirit, "Pools of Energy," or even a big fat guy named Al who pulls the cosmic strings then it's best to just take these things on faith and eschew the proof because once you venture into the realm of science, you need to abide by it's rules and not just randomly select or ignore things that don't fit your laughable theories.

 

[8744]

...Yes, think about shamanism for a moment...it provides healing for the practitioner, client, and respect for nature and the human condition. Your training tears you apart, and almost every thing you do harms in some way. What a concept...

Well, there's your problem right there. Your entire world view is built on a faulty premise, namely the concept of Rousseau's "Noble Savage," a concept that permeates most of the world of alternative medicine and political correctness and which is as idiotic as it is pervasive. Primitive man had no more or less respect for nature than modern man except that he probably feared it a good deal more than we do. Not too many predators lurking around my neighborhood, you understand.

In fact, the historical record shows that primitive man did such environmentally friendly things as setting vast grass fires to kill huge numbers of bison, the vast majority of which rotted on the prairie. Not to mention stampeding herds of mastadons off of cliffs killing them in job lots and leaving most of them for the vultures.

Primitive cultures also had, generally, a good deal less respect for the human condition than a typical liberal democracy. Tribes like the Huron were particularly blood-thirsty, tortured captives for sport, and used their screams as offering to their primitive gods. The Aztecs for their part ripped beating human hearts from the chests of their prisoners of war with no more thought than I have of going to an Elks club meeting, this being part of thier barbaric civic culture.

Yer' precious Incas, on whom most of your idiotic shamanism is based, lived in a totalitarian world under absolute despots that would make Stalin look like a piker.

 

[8744]

....What's really scary is some of you guys are going to be doctors...or are already...

I guess you'll just have to live with your fear.

 

[nocallaochicas]

But you are probably young and idealistic ...but that's ok. .

Did this zenman character just call Panda "young and idealistic"? LOL! Damn funniest and most incorrect thing I have seen him post yet!