Doctor Respect

[group_theory]

Witchdoctor orders Serb to have sex with hedgehog

By Lester Haines
Published Friday 15th September 2006 11:34 GMT

A Serbian man who went to a witchdoctor in search of a cure for premature ejaculation rather foolishly took the shaman's advice, viz: have sex with a hedgehog.

You know the rest: Zoran Nikolovic, 35, from Belgrade, ended up in the hospital with severe lacerations to his wedding tackle, according to Ananova. A hospital spokesman said: "The animal was apparently unhurt and the patient came off much worse from the encounter. We have managed to repair the damage to his penis."

We contacted a member of the International Association of Witchdoctors this morning for a comment. He told us: "This demonstrates the dangers in consulting unlicenced witchdoctors. We advise anyone with ejaculatory disfunction to consult our list of approved practitioners."

On the matter of premature ejaculation, he added: "Mix one teaspoon of powdered ocelot spleen with Red Bull under a full moon. Drink one hour before attempting penetration while sitting in a pentacle formed by toad skulls. Then, when you're on the job, think about the mother-in-law and filling in tax returns."



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/15/serbian_witchdoctor/

 

[zenman]

Given that your biography has you as a ~ 54 yo who spends his time defending his life decisions on a web forum frequented most often by those half his age...? Yes, you do sound insecure to me!

- H

I'm not...and don't have to defend my life decision. This is an experiment to show how little current med students and physicians know about the patients they will...or are treating...as well as how easy it is to throw adults off track.😀

 

[zenman]

Are those real black belts or do you only have kung fu powers in the spirit world?

A little of both, maybe, LOL! Ask my teachers:

Grandmaster J.R. West (HapKiDo & TaeKwonDo)
Grandmaster Johnny Kwong Ming Lee & Glen Guerin (Taiji & Qigong)
Dr. Jampa Mackenzie Stewart (Taiji, Medical Qigong & Chi Nei Tsang)
Dr. Qianzhi Wu (Qigong)
Taiji and Qigong with Alex Kozma of Thailand.

 

[zenman]

i stand corrected!!!

this is you...

Well, my hair is a lot darker and I have all of it...except when I shave my head...even though I'm now 55. I'm also more muscular, have tats and I'm 6' '3"...and my penis is still 8''👍

How long do you surf the web to find these porn pics?

 

[zenman]

Witchdoctor orders Serb to have sex with hedgehog

Well, that is the treatment of choice for Serbs!

 

[oldManDO2009]

I'm not...and don't have to defend my life decision. This is an experiment to show how little current med students and physicians know about the patients they will...or are treating...as well as how easy it is to throw adults off track.😀

How does anything you have said demonstrates we do not know our patients? Just because we do not give the patient a hug and validate their inner child does not mean we do not treat our patients well and provide excellent medical care.

What is clear is that if anyone was to show up on your front door step with a serious medical problem - they could be in real trouble.

Patients see doctors to manage their health conditions - you can justify your babble with words like holistic and I treat the whole patient but that does not diminish the care we as physicians (and soon to be physicians) provide.

What different outcome would you expect if I gave patients hugs and spent an inordinate amount of time exploring their feelings instead of the problem that brought them in (except psych of course)???

 

[zenman]

How does anything you have said demonstrates we do not know our patients? Just because we do not give the patient a hug and validate their inner child does not mean we do not treat our patients well and provide excellent medical care.

What is clear is that if anyone was to show up on your front door step with a serious medical problem - they could be in real trouble.

Patients see doctors to manage their health conditions - you can justify your babble with words like holistic and I treat the whole patient but that does not diminish the care we as physicians (and soon to be physicians) provide.

What different outcome would you expect if I gave patients hugs and spent an inordinate amount of time exploring their feelings instead of the problem that brought them in (except psych of course)???

Most of you do, or will provide good medical care according to your model. I would just like you to realize there is more out there than what you are even exposed to...although that is changing slowly...and it would be nice if you were more aware of it. And temper your religious beliefs in EBM with the willingness to "experience" something that might result in a shift in how you think.

My next door neighbor hopped over yesterday and wanted me to look at her foot. Based on what happened and how it felt, I think she has a slight tear in her Achillis tendon and advised her to go to the hospital. (And I asked her if she was taking Cipro as a lot of people here do.) But...after she gets that taken care of, my work can help her heal a lot faster.

Another client, also yesterday, has a lifetime fear of water, so much so that if a drop of water falls on her shoulder, she will jump. I about 20 minutes of a shamanic treatment...and a dramatic one for her...she was released from that fear.

So, of course I work with the physician when appropriate...and like I said earlier, I can provide options when nothing else is working. You work in the realm of curing; I work in the realm of healing.

We now know there is no mind-body split....except for many physicians. The terms "gut feelings," for example, now mean a lot more now.

You don't have to hug your patients but maybe place more emphasis on how much of an impact your words and your relationship might have.

And refer to your local shaman when appropriate...🙂

 

[zenman]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zenman/87321753/

Qtip (how appropriate) here's you a pic of a real martial artist

 

[8744]

...superficial affinity for Asian culture...LOL...I am in Asia...how superficial is that!

Yeah, but earlier you were bragging about how you were able to live a luxurious Western-style life because apparently, everything is cheaper over there. Sounds pretty superficial to me. You're obviously not following close behind a water buffalo in some rice paddy in the middle of nowhere.

 

[zenman]

Yeah, but earlier you were bragging about how you were able to live a luxurious Western-style life because apparently, everything is cheaper over there. Sounds pretty superficial to me. You're obviously not following close behind a water buffalo in some rice paddy in the middle of nowhere.

That was a smart-a** answer to a smart-a** poster saying I wasn't very smart! It's a simple version of shapeshifting. Life here is not my idea of luxurious.

 

[oldManDO2009]

Most of you do, or will provide good medical care according to your model. I would just like you to realize there is more out there than what you are even exposed to...although that is changing slowly...and it would be nice if you were more aware of it. And temper your religious beliefs in EBM with the willingness to "experience" something that might result in a shift in how you think.

My next door neighbor hopped over yesterday and wanted me to look at her foot. Based on what happened and how it felt, I think she has a slight tear in her Achillis tendon and advised her to go to the hospital. (And I asked her if she was taking Cipro as a lot of people here do.) But...after she gets that taken care of, my work can help her heal a lot faster.

Another client, also yesterday, has a lifetime fear of water, so much so that if a drop of water falls on her shoulder, she will jump. I about 20 minutes of a shamanic treatment...and a dramatic one for her...she was released from that fear.

So, of course I work with the physician when appropriate...and like I said earlier, I can provide options when nothing else is working. You work in the realm of curing; I work in the realm of healing.

We now know there is no mind-body split....except for many physicians. The terms "gut feelings," for example, now mean a lot more now.

You don't have to hug your patients but maybe place more emphasis on how much of an impact your words and your relationship might have.

And refer to your local shaman when appropriate...🙂

What makes you think I have not been exposed to CAM - I have worked with plenty of zealots who think western medicine is "light years behind" CAM. That does not mean they are right or even know what they are talking about. It usually is a result of to little knowledge and reading one sided literature describing the superiority of some treatment by a "scientist" with little factual basis...wait we just had this discussion. SO do not assume that you are the only purveyor of knowledge when it comes to CAM. What I have seen does not impress me.

BTW – I would never refer to a sham-man nor would I have much respect for someone that did. If a patient has those kinds of issues they need to see a psychiatrist.

 

[flighterdoc]

That was a smart-a** answer to a smart-a** poster saying I wasn't very smart! It's a simple version of shapeshifting. Life here is not my idea of luxurious.

Thats why it's called the third-world

 

[zenman]

What makes you think I have not been exposed to CAM - I have worked with plenty of zealots who think western medicine is "light years behind" CAM. That does not mean they are right or even know what they are talking about. It usually is a result of to little knowledge and reading one sided literature describing the superiority of some treatment by a "scientist" with little factual basis...wait we just had this discussion. SO do not assume that you are the only purveyor of knowledge when it comes to CAM. What I have seen does not impress me.

BTW – I would never refer to a sham-man nor would I have much respect for someone that did. If a patient has those kinds of issues they need to see a psychiatrist.

I don't think we discussed your exposure to CAM but thanks for bringing it up!
CAM does have a long history and extensive field trails greater than any others....and you know the number of patients choosing it and the amount of out of pocket dollars spent on it, right?

There are quite a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists going on trips to study with the shamans....because they are interested in why a shaman gets results in one session that takes them years. Keep your eyes open.

And now time for a long awaited quote:

In describing the process of change in scientific paradigm or personal belief, William James said:

"If you wish to upset the law that all crows are black. . . it is enough if you prove one single crow to be white."

 

[FoughtFyr]

In describing the process of change in scientific paradigm or personal belief, William James said:

"If you wish to upset the law that all crows are black. . . it is enough if you prove one single crow to be white."

In describing the basis behind all of CAM, the noted "philosopher, bounty broker, saloon and gambling-house keeper, eminent politician, and dispenser of cheating privileges..." Michael Cassius McDonald said "There is a sucker born every minute!"

- H

 

[zenman]

In describing the basis behind all of CAM, the noted "philosopher, bounty broker, saloon and gambling-house keeper, eminent politician, and dispenser of cheating privileges..." Michael Cassius McDonald said "There is a sucker born every minute!"

- H

Sure wish I'd known that before that Korean acupuncturist knocked out my bilateral tennis and golfer's elbows (one arm in one session; the other in the second session) which I'd had for over a year and which my orthodoc said surgery was the only thing she could think of left to do.

 

[oldManDO2009]

Sure wish I'd known that before that Korean acupuncturist knocked out my bilateral tennis and golfer's elbows (one arm in one session; the other in the second session) which I'd had for over a year and which my orthodoc said surgery was the only thing she could think of left to do.

hate to tell you but when you see a surgeon - they want to operate.

 

[zenman]

hate to tell you but when you see a surgeon - they want to operate.

Not this one; she actually liked me!😀

 

[zenman]

I got to get this one:

"The Heart Speaks: A Cardiologist Reveals the Secret Language of Healing."

A lyrical writer as well as a cardiologist, the author, founder and medical director of the Scripps Center for Integrative Medicine, describes how she learned that beyond the power of our most sophisticated medical equipment is a physician's humanity—"the listening ear, the healing touch, the devices of healers throughout time." Guarneri became highly accomplished at angioplasty and stent procedures, but came to realize that those she treated could also be helped by proper nutrition and stress reduction techniques such as yoga and visualization. She became committed to practices such as those of Dean Ornish, with whom she has worked, to reverse coronary disease with diet, exercise, meditation and support groups. Guarneri studied the link between depression and heart disease, and opened her mind to the validity of other alternative treatments, including energy healing, visualization before and after surgery, and spiritual practices. What is particularly attractive about this chronicle is the author's graceful integration of her own story—the destructive effect on her of stress and overwork—into those of her patients. Guarneri deplores the financial constraints that prevent doctors from spending time with patients and that many physicians have developed "a mechanic's mentality," focused on fixing rather than getting to know their patients.

 

[Qtip96]

so where does your crackpot shamanism fit into this?

BTW,

...even though I'm now 55. I'm also more muscular, have tats and I'm 6' '3"...and my penis is still 8''👍

this is you

i think you meant to say tits. you seriously need a "manssiere" or a "bro".

 

[flighterdoc]

Sure wish I'd known that before that Korean acupuncturist knocked out my bilateral tennis and golfer's elbows (one arm in one session; the other in the second session) which I'd had for over a year and which my orthodoc said surgery was the only thing she could think of left to do.

I had a DO do the same thing to my CTS/Tennis/Golfers elbow with a finger in my brachial plexus. Non-invasive. At a cocktail party. Real science, too.

 

[WildcatDMD]

Oh, snap.

 

[zenman]

I had a DO do the same thing to my CTS/Tennis/Golfers elbow with a finger in my brachial plexus. Non-invasive. At a cocktail party. Real science, too.

Interesting isn't it? Both worked and only one is "real science." 😴

 

[flighterdoc]

Interesting isn't it? Both worked and only one is "real science." 😴

Yes. As your faith is based on non-proveable, non-repeatable applications of shamanism and squirrel juice (or whatever), mine treatment met all the requirements of science.

And, when science fails we keep track of it. When squirrel juice fails, what happens?

 

[zenman]

Yes. As your faith is based on non-proveable, non-repeatable applications of shamanism and squirrel juice (or whatever), mine treatment met all the requirements of science.

And, when science fails we keep track of it. When squirrel juice fails, what happens?

You mean the longest running field trails with the largest number of patients...with a lot of tracking...means nothing to you?

 

[Vox Animo]

You mean the longest running field trails with the largest number of patients...with a lot of tracking...means nothing to you?

phlebotomy was used for hundreds of years, had thousands of followers. doesnt mean it was healthy.

Skull trephining was used for tens of thousands of years, and was developed by many cultures independently. So i guess since its been used longer, and has more followers it should trump acupuncture.

enough of this med school garbage, im gonna go get a saw, mallet, and chisel. Come to me with any cephal ailments.

 

[flighterdoc]

You mean the longest running field trails with the largest number of patients...with a lot of tracking...means nothing to you?

When they're not duplicatable under controlled conditions, you're right. I can write any sort of garbage and get it published in some third-world ass rag 'journal' and it doesn't mean it's true.

That said, even things published in the most prestigous journals are sometimes untrue as well. My first test is the sniff test - and squirrel juice, various forms of counter-irritation (accupuncture, moxibustion, etc) don't pass.

 

[8744]

You mean the longest running field trails with the largest number of patients...with a lot of tracking...means nothing to you?

Also, don't forget that that until the advent of modern medicine, human lifespan was half of what it is today. For all of that shaking of da' bones and incantations over steaming bowls of otter bile people tended to be old by thirty and dead of disease by forty, assuming that they didn't die traumatically at the hands of the visigoths or the Aztec High Priest.

Zenman, your tats and martial arts skills aside, I admire the scam you are running and the fact that you are fleecing the baby-boomers and the liberal intelligentisia bothers me not at all. Just don't drink your own Koolaid, OK?

 

[zenman]

phlebotomy was used for hundreds of years, had thousands of followers. doesnt mean it was healthy.

Skull trephining was used for tens of thousands of years, and was developed by many cultures independently. So i guess since its been used longer, and has more followers it should trump acupuncture.

enough of this med school garbage, im gonna go get a saw, mallet, and chisel. Come to me with any cephal ailments.

True, but it helps to be blessed with critical thinking skills😀

 

[zenman]

When they're not duplicatable under controlled conditions, you're right. I can write any sort of garbage and get it published in some third-world ass rag 'journal' and it doesn't mean it's true.

That said, even things published in the most prestigous journals are sometimes untrue as well. My first test is the sniff test - and squirrel juice, various forms of counter-irritation (accupuncture, moxibustion, etc) don't pass.

I saw a reference to Moxibustion the other day. This involves burning a cone of an herb on the skin, placing some on a slice of cucumber to create a nice moist heat, burning some on an inserted acupuncture or holding a burning moxa stick near acupuncture points. Now it makes sense that the surrounding area would be warm, but this study showed that the warmth extended down recognized meridians. I'll post it when I get home but hope you don't break down and cry over it!😀

 

[zenman]

Also, don't forget that that until the advent of modern medicine, human lifespan was half of what it is today. For all of that shaking of da' bones and incantations over steaming bowls of otter bile people tended to be old by thirty and dead of disease by forty, assuming that they didn't die traumatically at the hands of the visigoths or the Aztec High Priest.

Zenman, your tats and martial arts skills aside, I admire the scam you are running and the fact that you are fleecing the baby-boomers and the liberal intelligentisia bothers me not at all. Just don't drink your own Koolaid, OK?

Of course they died younger. Life was difficult. But many lived to an advanced age of 100 or more...particularly the medicine men and shamans.

Now what are we doing? Keeping people alive with their weak organs and genes so they can create more weaker people dependant on modern medicine...and crowding the planet. It's not always nice to fool mother nature!

I don't drink kool-aid. But, when will admit that you are also using shaman skills? 👍

 

[8744]

Of course they died younger. Life was difficult. But many lived to an advanced age of 100 or more...particularly the medicine men and shamans.

Now what are we doing? Keeping people alive with their weak organs and genes so they can create more weaker people dependant on modern medicine...and crowding the planet. It's not always nice to fool mother nature!

I don't drink kool-aid. But, when will admit that you are also using shaman skills? 👍

There is no "mother nature." You are shamelessly anthropomorphising (sp?) a bunch of dirt, sticks, animals, and bad weather. I don't even want to say that nature is indifferent because nature isn't anything at all except thermodynamics, orbital mechanics, and chiggers.

Good Lord. Your entire world-view is based on a 1970s margerine commercial.

As to your other comments, I suppose we need to round up those weaker people and exterminate them to allow the naturally selected master race their lebensraum.

 

[zenman]

I saw a reference to Moxibustion the other day. This involves burning a cone of an herb on the skin, placing some on a slice of cucumber to create a nice moist heat, burning some on an inserted acupuncture or holding a burning moxa stick near acupuncture points. Now it makes sense that the surrounding area would be warm, but this study showed that the warmth extended down recognized meridians. I'll post it when I get home but hope you don't break down and cry over it!😀

Schlebusch KP, Maric-Oehler W, Popp FA. Biophotonics in the infrared spectral range reveal acupuncture meridian structure of the body. J Altern Complement Med. 2005; 11(1): 171-3.

 

[zenman]

There is no "mother nature." You are shamelessly anthropomorphising (sp?) a bunch of dirt, sticks, animals, and bad weather. I don't even want to say that nature is indifferent because nature isn't anything at all except thermodynamics, orbital mechanics, and chiggers.

Good Lord. Your entire world-view is based on a 1970s margerine commercial.

As to your other comments, I suppose we need to round up those weaker people and exterminate them to allow the naturally selected master race their lebensraum.

Global warming...global warming...global warming!

 

[8744]

...Now what are we doing? Keeping people alive with their weak organs and genes so they can create more weaker people dependant on modern medicine...

How about my wife? She had to have an emergency C-section with our first child. She would have probably died in childbirth along with the baby 100, strike that, 50 years ago. Was that a mistake? Should we have let them both die to avoid weakening the gene pool?

 

[8744]

.

...and crowding the planet.

Besides, as you should know, the problem with the developing (or non-primative) world is under-population, not over-population. Most of Western Europe has negative population growth. Japan for it's part has severe population decline. Of major First World countries, only the United States has positive population growth but jsut barely.

I knew it. Scratch your surface and you are a utopian dreamer and a misanthropist.

 

[zenman]

How about my wife? She had to have an emergency C-section with our first child. She would have probably died in childbirth along with the baby 100, strike that, 50 years ago. Was that a mistake? Should we have let them both die to avoid weakening the gene pool?

Are we talking about what actually happen during an earlier time or now discussing ethical issues?

 

[zenman]

Besides, as you should know, the problem with the developing (or non-primative) world is under-population, not over-population. Most of Western Europe has negative population growth. Japan for it's part has severe population decline. Of major First World countries, only the United States has positive population growth but jsut barely.

I knew it. Scratch your surface and you are a utopian dreamer and a misanthropist.

The planet, fellow...the planet

 

[8744]

Are we talking about what actually happen during an earlier time or now discussing ethical issues?

Obviously my wife has now passed on her genes for a small pelvis to our offspring thus weakening the gene pool. By your reasoning, it would be better for her to have died along with the children to avoid this insult to nature.

Dude, go back and read what you wrote.

 

[zenman]

Obviously my wife has now passed on her genes for a small pelvis to our offspring thus weakening the gene pool. By your reasoning, it would be better for her to have died along with the children to avoid this insult to nature.

Dude, go back and read what you wrote.

Whether or not it is "better" or not is fodder for a class discussion. My first child died a few hours after birth of cardiac problems. So, from a factual standpoint one could argue that his "weak" genes were stopped at that point. Anything else is just class discussion.

 

[zenman]

You're so full of ****, your hair must be brown. Think that nobody's ever killed a bengal tiger in the jungle with a rifle? Hell, I know someone that's done it with a lance. On foot, not on an elephant. And has the photos to prove it. I know others who have tigers heads stuffed and mounted on the walls of their game rooms (all with bullet holes, in the ventral aspect).

Go troll over at nurses.com or somewhere.

9/26/06 Teenage fisherman killed by tiger at Chhota Saula char of the Sarankhola range in Sundarban. Gunshots were fired to drive away the tiger but too late for the dead fellow.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

9/26/06 Teenage fisherman killed by tiger at Chhota Saula char of the Sarankhola range in Sundarban. Gunshots were fired to drive away the tiger but too late for the dead fellow.

Yeah and I've seen folks who've been attacked by white tailed deer while hunting, but its certainly not the norm.

 

[8744]

Whether or not it is "better" or not is fodder for a class discussion. My first child died a few hours after birth of cardiac problems. So, from a factual standpoint one could argue that his "weak" genes were stopped at that point. Anything else is just class discussion.

You said that passing on weak genes was somehow an affront to nature and directly implied that thngs were better in the good old days when people only lived to 30 and the only the strong survived. I want you to explain this comment.

 

[zenman]

Yeah and I've seen folks who've been attacked by white tailed deer while hunting, but its certainly not the norm.

Unfortunately, this story is the norm here. I've been attacked by a rabbit while hunting...that's not the norm!

 

[zenman]

You said that passing on weak genes was somehow an affront to nature and directly implied that thngs were better in the good old days when people only lived to 30 and the only the strong survived. I want you to explain this comment.

Ok, I'll explain it differently...and it's more of a question. Are we going against nature? Nature was taking care of the weak ones. In any case, nature will take care of our affronts. I don't think I said the old days were good.

 

[8744]

Ok, I'll explain it differently...and it's more of a question. Are we going against nature? Nature was taking care of the weak ones. In any case, nature will take care of our affronts. I don't think I said the old days were good.

Let me reiterate, there is no such thing as "nature," at least not in the sense that you mean it as a sentient entity with a value system that we can "go against." Nor for that matter will nature take care of our affronts. There is no such thing as an affront to nature as nature is not a conscious player which can be insulted.

 

[zenman]

Let me reiterate, there is no such thing as "nature," at least not in the sense that you mean it as a sentient entity with a value system that we can "go against." Nor for that matter will nature take care of our affronts. There is no such thing as an affront to nature as nature is not a conscious player which can be insulted.

Well, we're seeing the effects from the "affront" to nature. And many scientist are very concerned.

 

[8744]

Well, we're seeing the effects from the "affront" to nature. And many scientist are very concerned.

But you don't believe in science or the scientific method, relying instead on ancient shamanistic wisdom.

 

[zenman]

But you don't believe in science or the scientific method, relying instead on ancient shamanistic wisdom.

No, I consider both science and the scientific method...just not to the point of a religious fervor.

 

[Brooklyndo2.1]

as much as this discussion is entertaining and has devolved...
ill put in my two cents
western medicine is often seen as "lacking as soul" so to speak. no compassion or whatever..too scientific and rigid...
none of this is bad, or even necesserily try, its just how its perceived.

in response some people go to extremes to fix or add what is lacking...ie the spirtual part

then both sides go to their corners and become more and more extreme

"prove it"
"no soul"
bla bla bla

if my patient will feel better if i let his shaman shake a pig bladder at him, while still letting me pump him full of vanco or whatever, im all for that, and everyones happy

by the way...to answer the op
ER is the most respected field, since panda is in it...
next to rehab, which is the field i am now matching(one hopes) in...and since im going into it, it must be hugely respected

Brooklyn

 

[Miami_med]

Let me reiterate, there is no such thing as "nature," at least not in the sense that you mean it as a sentient entity with a value system that we can "go against." Nor for that matter will nature take care of our affronts. There is no such thing as an affront to nature as nature is not a conscious player which can be insulted.

I might post this one on my fridge.