Doctorate programs after MS-- looking for advice

[Ashelia]

Hi everybody. This is my first post. I've been reading these forums and they've been extremely helpful. I'd like to ask for some advice regarding applying to a doctorate.

I've just finished my undergrad, and I'll be attending San Francisco State University for a Clinical Psych MS (2 year program) in the fall. The program will train me in psychodynamic as well as systems theory. My goal, at this time, is to become a Marriage and Family Therapist, which this program will help prepare me for. However, I realize that my goals might change in the next few years so I've also been reading about the possibility of applying to Clinical or Counseling doctorate programs after I finish my MS. I know that my MS will not transfer into any doctorate (SFSU doesn't have any) and I'm also not likely to get considerable, if any, units from my MS transferred. I also know that having a MS before applying to a PhD or PsyD may not work in my favor.

Ideally, I'd still have an emphasis in practice, but I'd like to do more research than is associated with a Master's. I'm also very interested in community psychology, though I know there are few programs with that particular emphasis.

Again, I'd just like to consider my options. If I do decide to pursue a doctorate in the future, I'll need to know soon, and start preparing for it before my MS program even begins! Here are some things I've been wondering.

1) I have read in this forum that a Counseling Psychology Master's would not help admission to a Clinical Psych doctorate, though it may be applicable for a Counseling Psych doctorate. What about the opposite? With a Master's in Clinical Psych, would I be able to apply to Counseling Psych programs as well as Clinical Psych?

2) Research opportunities are available at the school I'll be attending, though any research would be independent of my program's requirements. I'm definitely going to apply to research projects I'm interested in, not only because they're absolutely necessary for doctorate programs, but also because I never did research in undergrad and I've always wanted to. I'd really like to contribute to the field of psychological research, not just practice. Anyway, my question is: should I try to adapt my thesis (which IS a requirement) to match the research topic in question? Or is it better to stick with topics that my faculty are working in?

3) Speaking of research, how many projects could one realistically work in while also doing the Master's (full time, classes during the day)? I realize everybody has different work habits and schedules, so I guess I'm asking what has worked for you guys if you've done your Master's as well.

4) What sort of jobs should I apply for, other than the internships I'll end up doing for my program? I read here that I could look for an assistantship for a hospital's psych unit.

5) If any of you have done the Master's --> doctorate route as well, how long did you wait in between? Did you opt for more research or work experience before applying to the doctorate?

6) I may end up finishing my Master's, getting my license as an MFT, and then working a few years before deciding to apply for a doctorate program. Is this a good idea, or would being an MFT hurt my chances for admission?

7) Do you have any other tips for someone going this Masters before applying to doctorate route? I did see a lot of helpful information on this forum already (get published, great LoRs, conferences, etc) so thanks everyone.

Also, I'm sorry if this thread belongs in the Masters level forum. I just thought I'd put it here because I'd like advice from students in doctoral programs.

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[socialcog]

6) I may end up finishing my Master's, getting my license as an MFT, and then working a few years before deciding to apply for a doctorate program. Is this a good idea, or would being an MFT hurt my chances for admission?

Out of curiosity...why pursue a clinical PhD after becoming a licensed MFT? (People....please don't flame the crap out of me for my question...as I think it is an important one.)

 

[deleted176373]

Out of curiosity...why pursue a clinical PhD after becoming a licensed MFT? (People....please don't flame the crap out of me for my question...as I think it is an important one.)

I have to agree it's an important question as is the question, why not a clinical/counseling Ph.D. or even Psy.D. now? If this is the path that you believe you want to pursue, don't bother with the masters degree.

I suspect a great deal of other factors are at play; being able to provide an income, having time to pursue other interests, and just to get out of academia in some cases.

Mark

 

[docma]

SFSU has a strong program and I don't think you would have to rule out application later to a Counseling Psych PhD. I know students who entered my program (midwestern university) with a clinical MS or MA. You might also have an option of a Ph.D with Fielding or CSPP/Alliant. Having an MS would not exclude you from work in research labs at UCSF either. The main point is to look carefully at who you know (or could get to know) who is doing what kind of work in the field. Then learn about their path. There is no single degree or program that is a sure ticket and you need to also look at the demographics of the area where you want to live and work and whether the entry level jobs you want to do are seeking doctorates or master's level clinicians...

 

[blindchaos]

1) I have read in this forum that a Counseling Psychology Master's would not help admission to a Clinical Psych doctorate, though it may be applicable for a Counseling Psych doctorate. What about the opposite? With a Master's in Clinical Psych, would I be able to apply to Counseling Psych programs as well as Clinical Psych?

I think it's certainly possible - I went the opposite route (MA in counseling to PsyD in clinical) and got into 6 places. I'd say just be prepared to say why you want to switch over (assuming you go MS clinical to PsyD/PhD counseling). I was asked that a few times at interviews though it seemed to be a general "why clinical psych" question asked of everyone. It's entirely possible you can get some credits to transfer over (depending on the school and their requirements of course) - just keep your syllabi! Feel free to PM if you want more info, just thought I'd share that it's entirely possible to switch over if that's what you want to do

 

[RileyG]

Here's my 2 cents...

1) I am finishing up a M.A. program in clinical psych and out of the 5 people in my cohort that applied to PhD programs for next fall, 3 applied to both clinical and counseling programs. They all got into multiple counseling programs, but they didn't all get into clinical programs. So yes, it can be done and if you have a lower GRE score, it might be advantageous to do so.

3) That completely depends on your program. I got involved in 3 research projects plus my thesis project. However, the first year of my program (it's a 2 year program) was pretty intense so I did most of my research in the 2nd year, so it didn't all make it onto my CV before applying to PhD programs.

5) I am going straight from my masters to my doctorate. I will have a summer off. Does that count? No? ok, moving on...

7) research, research, get a high GRE score, then do a little more research.

 

[RileyG]

PS,
I love odd numbers.

 

[KillerDiller]

I'll respond to what I can.

2) That's a tough one. My experience is in conducting an empirical (as opposed to an applied) thesis, so I'm not sure what the procedures are in doing a thesis that doesn't involve the design of a research study. In general, I would advise that you try to conduct your thesis within the realm of experience of whatever faculty mentor you end up having. A mentor with no experience in the area you are working in is of limited help. Of course, this varies depending on your mentor. Some will go out of their way to become experts in whatever you are studying, which is great, but most professors don't have the time to do this.

3) At my Masters program, I was able to take a full course load and still be active in a professor's lab each semester as well as conduct my own research. It will vary greatly depending on the work required for each research project, but I would say it's possible to do about 20 hours a week of research work on top of your classes.

4) It sounds like you'll get plenty of practical experience from your internships alone. Why not, then, try to get paid to do research? Perhaps you can find a paid RA position.

5) I ended up waiting a year between my Masters degree and attending a Ph.D program. I definitely decided to load my CV with research experience as opposed to clinical experience. It's great to have clinical experience, but that alone won't get you into grad school. I think research experience is more valued by far, at least by Ph.D programs. Psy.D programs may value both equally.

6) I don't think that would hurt your chances.