Doctors of the dead

[y2k_free_radical]

I had hoped the perception that pathologists only do autopsies or deal with the dead would change over time.For decades i have tried to correct this concept by both lay and some medical people to no avail.Most believe those doing the surgeries also diagnose them.Few respect the contributions of the LABORATORY MEDICAL DIRECTOR or medical technologists for that matter.Our vital role in patient care is hidden,unappreciated and unknown.This misperception undercuts any power we have with payors ,administrators or legislators.I believe the CAP and ASCP should hire a professional image and advertising consultant to remedy this.Their attempts to educate our customers so far has been a failure.Unfortunately,pathologists ARE NOT GROOVY.


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[LADoc00]

I think you are not appreciating the hidden power of being the "Gray Man" in health care now. The more mysterious and opaque Pathology is, the better we will survive the inevitable phase shift in American healthcare economics.

When you let pride start overriding survival/income considerations is when the field will collapse.

 

[y2k_free_radical]

I think you are not appreciating the hidden power of being the "Gray Man" in health care now. The more mysterious and opaque Pathology is, the better we will survive the inevitable phase shift in American healthcare economics.

When you let pride start overriding survival/income considerations is when the field will collapse.

Our profession has little to no pay for medical directorships and commoditization of surgicals.How are we helped by being "GRAY MEN" ??????????????????

 

[LADoc00]

Our profession has little to no pay for medical directorships and commoditization of surgicals.How are we helped by being "GRAY MEN" ??????????????????

I get a paid a ton for medical directorship and just finished a meeting with a hired outside hospital consulting firm telling them what I do because the admin didnt know enough to answer their questions...so yah, getting paid X for something is far less about them understanding what you do vs. how important you are perceived.

Teaching kids is well understood and universally thought of as important, but teachers are paid crap. Meanwhile most city officials have no clue what bar pilots do and they make over 400K a year where I am...

 

[y2k_free_radical]

I get a paid a ton for medical directorship and just finished a meeting with a hired outside hospital consulting firm telling them what I do because the admin didnt know enough to answer their questions...so yah, getting paid X for something is far less about them understanding what you do vs. how important you are perceived.

Teaching kids is well understood and universally thought of as important, but teachers are paid crap. Meanwhile most city officials have no clue what bar pilots do and they make over 400K a year where I am...

This is not the case for many of us.Perhaps we are poor negotiators.In some cases administrators would replace anyone demanding too much.As you have stated,you are a superior talent to most.

 

[LADoc00]

This is a huge fallacy in all facets of business I constantly run into. There is misconception that if you somehow price yourself too high (within some defensible limit of course), you will lose contracts. Given the average hospital lab has revenue in the tens of millions of dollars and hospital lab employee costs from 5 to 10 million and up, the few hundred k they spend OR save on your medical directorship is minimal. Hospital administrators have zero issue paying docs they feel are solid team players a good director fee and will recoil at spending even a crappy sum on pathology groups where they constantly have to manage behavioral or diagnostic issues with them.

Pathology groups are like wine, some of it is straight up 2 buck chuck from Trader's Joe while other bottles are bought at auction for $1000+. You can easily imagine a scenario where a guy gets his 2 buck chuck and STILL thinks he overpaid while the guy who got a one grand bottle of Screaming Eagle will think he got the deal of decade, right?

 

[y2k_free_radical]

This is a huge fallacy in all facets of business I constantly run into. There is misconception that if you somehow price yourself too high (within some defensible limit of course), you will lose contracts. Given the average hospital lab has revenue in the tens of millions of dollars and hospital lab employee costs from 5 to 10 million and up, the few hundred k they spend OR save on your medical directorship is minimal. Hospital administrators have zero issue paying docs they feel are solid team players a good director fee and will recoil at spending even a crappy sum on pathology groups where they constantly have to manage behavioral or diagnostic issues with them.

Pathology groups are like wine, some of it is straight up 2 buck chuck from Trader's Joe while other bottles are bought at auction for $1000+. You can easily imagine a scenario where a guy gets his 2 buck chuck and STILL thinks he overpaid while the guy who got a one grand bottle of Screaming Eagle will think he got the deal of decade, right?

So you can get more than one FTE for clinical as well as do surgicals.I truly wish i had your talent and moxie.I wish a few others would share their experiences.

 

[LADoc00]

So you can get more than one FTE for clinical as well as do surgicals.I truly wish i had your talent and moxie.I wish a few others would share their experiences.

Simple business decision from an admin POV: If a hospital had to pay a pathologist to do nothing but be the lab medical director, be on call 24-7 and manage the section leadership, QA survey reports and long term plan for growth/changes in healthcare economics, what would you have to pay that person? $175,000+benefits (around 30-40% more)? 200K+benefits?

Because that really cant be less than a FTE. You are on call 24-7 by federal law.

Here is the thing: It is ILLEGAL to exchange government healthcare business such as Medicare/Medicaid for inducement like "free or below market medical directorship of a lab". If an administrator tries to scheme that they are giving you the hospital exclusive AP work but in exchange you must direct the lab for below the FTE level, they can banned from hospital administration for life, fined or even jailed. That's the beauty of the double edged sword of the Stark laws (yes even tho Pete Stark himself wasnt the best politician). If you have a contract pulled and can show admin is giving it to another group as an inducement scheme, you can file a lawsuit fairly easily and win. Just the lawsuit would be a PR nightmare for most community hospitals they would avoid at all costs.

In the end, the pittance of a good medical director fee vs. a crappy one is budget dust to your average American hospital so why would they create a massive risk pool by hosing Pathology groups as you suggest?

Think about it, we are minuscule in the grand celestial pantheon of healthcare issues admin currently face. Hospital admin wants NO drama from their pathologists.

 

[y2k_free_radical]

Simple business decision from an admin POV: If a hospital had to pay a pathologist to do nothing but be the lab medical director, be on call 24-7 and manage the section leadership, QA survey reports and long term plan for growth/changes in healthcare economics, what would you have to pay that person? $175,000+benefits (around 30-40% more)? 200K+benefits?

Because that really cant be less than a FTE. You are on call 24-7 by federal law.

Here is the thing: It is ILLEGAL to exchange government healthcare business such as Medicare/Medicaid for inducement like "free or below market medical directorship of a lab". If an administrator tries to scheme that they are giving you the hospital exclusive AP work but in exchange you must direct the lab for below the FTE level, they can banned from hospital administration for life, fined or even jailed. That's the beauty of the double edged sword of the Stark laws (yes even tho Pete Stark himself wasnt the best politician). If you have a contract pulled and can show admin is giving it to another group as an inducement scheme, you can file a lawsuit fairly easily and win. Just the lawsuit would be a PR nightmare for most community hospitals they would avoid at all costs.

In the end, the pittance of a good medical director fee vs. a crappy one is budget dust to your average American hospital so why would they create a massive risk pool by hosing Pathology groups as you suggest?

Think about it, we are minuscule in the grand celestial pantheon of healthcare issues admin currently face. Hospital admin wants NO drama from their pathologists.

Very salient points but i think many administrators have and are doing this.

 

[chooks]

Hospital admin wants NO drama from their pathologists.

This is the truest statement I have seen on this board in a long time.