Doctors say no to pre-med students??

[jdgator7]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I am a pre-med student at the University of Florida.
I have been taking to a lot of doctors lately, and all of them have told me not to go to med school. They all have told me that it is just not worth it anymore, and that it is not the same as it used to be. They all tell me how bad the mal-practice insurance is, how you get sued all the time, the money isnt the same, and numerous other disadvantages.
Has anyone talked to any doctors and gotten similar responses? or maybe just the opposite?

 

[HollyJ]

Everybody likes to complain about how their profession is not like it was in the good old days. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[lax]

Yes, I had a doctor once tell me (I am a RN) that he wished he would've done nurse anesthesia. Before I became a nurse, I was in premed. I didn't have the financial security to go straight through so many years of school. Now that i am financially secure, I am considering taking the few classes I have left- and applying. I don't know...it is a long time, costs a lot, and malpractice insurance is kinda heavy! It is still a very honorable, compassionate career...if done for the right reasons. If you could place yourself in a mindset and think..." Would I be a doctor if I didn't make much money? Just to help people?" If you said yes-then chances are that if you don't have the perfect salary or benefits...you can still go to work and enjoy your career for the rest of your life. Believe me- working in a hospital is stressful, sad, joyful, and consumes a lot of time (at work and home). If you do not truly love the study of medicine and people...you are doing no justice by becoming a doctor. If you decide to be a doctor-please try and be compassionate even when you are exhausted...you may be the last or only shoulder for a 90 year old man to lean on when he loses his beloved wife of 50 years. Don't you want to go home and think, " I did my job today and I did it right!" Money isn't everything and being a doctor is a tremendous opportunity to make a difference. Good luck.

 

[MD Rapper]

I am a pre-med student at the University of Florida.
I have been taking to a lot of doctors lately, and all of them have told me not to go to med school. They all have told me that it is just not worth it anymore, and that it is not the same as it used to be. They all tell me how bad the mal-practice insurance is, how you get sued all the time, the money isnt the same, and numerous other disadvantages.
Has anyone talked to any doctors and gotten similar responses? or maybe just the opposite?

For some reason, doctors like to complain a lot about their profession... I've experienced this first hand for several years. I don't REALLY know why... sometimes it seems like a remark made up by the big "doctor network" to keep people out of medicine who don't really want to do it.

I often make the analogy of medicine to a college fraternity. The same way fraternity brothers stick together, doctors seems to stick together (I mean, look at us already; we post on a student doctor network because we feel comfortable with each other!) Using our analogy, the process to become a practicing physician is basically a big hazing ritual, similar to becoming a full-fledged member of a fraternity.... pre-med courses such as o-chem and physics are there to weed people out... the application process includes secondaries to only keep the more dedicated people... AAMC makes the MCAT super-tricky to see if you will stand for the challange.... Residents have to BUST their asses in their first couple of years to prove themselves. In the end, its just a bunch of work and barriers to get to be in the position of the attendings... of course, this is not to say that you don't use some of what you learned along the way... But I think most people would agree with me when I say the medical education process is relatively archaic and drawn-out.

Anyway, if you decide to use this fraternity analogy, then docs telling you not to enter medicine is just a comment that makes up a part of the hazing ritual. Sadly, sometimes I feel as if one must treat the process to becoming a physician as a game... hey, it helps me get through it! Just my two cents... yes, I do think off-the-wall at times!

 

[Pasley]

Hey my doctor takes $10,000 vacations, sometimes twice a year.
He also drives really nice cars. (plural)
Yes he works crazy long hours but he sure is living better than me.
He takes his family out for $400 meals. I don't spend that much in a month for food.
But then again my phone never rings during the night - let alone more than once. So the more you make the more is expected of you time wise.
He basically wants for nothing - except more free time.
But when he does get free time - he plays good, travels the world, and enjoys spending his hard earned money.
But then again he pays more in taxes than I make a year.

 

[Luck]

Most of the doctors I talked to loved their job. Then again these doctors were DOs. The ones that didn't like their jobs were MDs. I don't know why. 😕

 

[susannaQ]

Yes, I have heard this too. And I don't beleive that this attitude can be reduced down to a form of hazing.

I think a lot of docs are really unsatisfied with their jobs because of all the cr** they have to put up with: I asked my doctor about it and he said that being a doctor really wasn't enjoyable for him. After grinding through medical school, he realised how unhappy he was with the structure of medicine today and that now, and that now, he really depends on his hobby of boating to be happy with his life and to keep sane. He said that, like most professions, it was just a job that he had to get up to go to everyday to get paid for.

I think medicine really has become a whole lot more frustrating and difficult with paperwork, policy, and legal aspects so that it is a lot less gratifying for everyone, no matter what reason u go into medicine for.

Its upseeting to hear, isnt it? How is everyone coping with this news? I try to ignore it but i cant say that it doesnt irk me or worry me...

 

[Dr Dean]

RARRRRRRRRRRRRRR It totally sucks to be a doctor.

 

[MD Rapper]

RARRRRRRRRRRRRRR It totally sucks to be a doctor.

Hey man, sorry to hear that you weren't elected to run as vice-prez with Kerry!! Much love... stop getting angry and maybe we could make you the Surgeon General

 

[ang19]

i work in a busy trauma center and i hear a lot of doctors make jokes or complain about how medicine is today. one doc told me he enocurages his children NOT to go to medical school because its not worth it. in my opinion, do what you want to do. don't let what others say dictate the decisions you make. everyone has a gripe about their chosen profession. be proud of your decision to want to help people and expand your knowledge at the same time. medicine is and always will be an admirable, highly respected profession. good luck with your career.

 

[Chronotropic]

One thing to note is that pretty much everyone complains about their job.

 

[taylor92107]

Yes, I had a doctor once tell me (I am a RN) that he wished he would've done nurse anesthesia. Before I became a nurse, I was in premed. I didn't have the financial security to go straight through so many years of school. Now that i am financially secure, I am considering taking the few classes I have left- and applying. I don't know...it is a long time, costs a lot, and malpractice insurance is kinda heavy! It is still a very honorable, compassionate career...if done for the right reasons. If you could place yourself in a mindset and think..." Would I be a doctor if I didn't make much money? Just to help people?" If you said yes-then chances are that if you don't have the perfect salary or benefits...you can still go to work and enjoy your career for the rest of your life. Believe me- working in a hospital is stressful, sad, joyful, and consumes a lot of time (at work and home). If you do not truly love the study of medicine and people...you are doing no justice by becoming a doctor. If you decide to be a doctor-please try and be compassionate even when you are exhausted...you may be the last or only shoulder for a 90 year old man to lean on when he loses his beloved wife of 50 years. Don't you want to go home and think, " I did my job today and I did it right!" Money isn't everything and being a doctor is a tremendous opportunity to make a difference. Good luck.

Excellent post!!! 👍

 

[TiggidyTooth]

I believe that it is a mistake to make a deicision on whether or not to pursue a profession which requires a decade of training based on the state of the profession today. In 7-10 years time, when you are out of medical school the profession will have some vast differences compared to where it is today. There are major problems with the healthcare industry, but measures are already going through to change it, for better or for worse. I believe that it is way too difficult to predict where this industry is headed so make a decision based on your personal goals, and leave money as a secondary issue. If you are passionate about your work, believe in it, and are good the money will be there. The same can be said about any profession. Can you see yourself doing medicine and nothing else? Is this a dream that you can't deny at least trying? Does becoming a doctor consume the majority of your thoughts? If you can answer these questions honestly for yourself then the decision has already been made. Screw the old man in a white coat who's pulling 250k instead of 300k. He's old, out of touch with reality, out of touch why he punished himself for all those years. His zeal is gone, don't let these bitter eruptions disuade you. You're fresh, eager, wanting a challenge and a noble profession. You are educated and understand the difficulties that await. No surprises. Enjoy the road to success!

Tooth

 

[soopa]

"The grass is always greener on the other side."

Use that statement and fit it in with this. Talk to people that are not doctors, and they will be like "oh, u are going into medicine, excellent!" everyone always talks trash of their profession at some time or another.

 

[medtechv79]

I think when u are out working for so long in the real world....yeah u kinda lose that freshness, eagerness that u had when u were young and wanted to work in med/whatever profession in the first place. Plus there are other sides to medicine once u finish school....financial matters, personal relationships, kids, family etc. My aunt and cousins are doctors. My aunts always a little discouraging about going to med school cause its so long....but thats just her opinion. My cousin complains cause the days are so long.
In other words, if its what u want to do, go do it....don't let other ppl decide for u. There's always a downside to every profession

 

[medtechv79]

Actually my aunt whose a doctor told me to go to PA school--shorter, and u get paid pretty well...u basically do the same thing as a doctor except probably more work is what I've heard. But oh wells....

 

[Psycho Doctor]

" Would I be a doctor if I didn't make much money? Just to help people?" If you said yes-then chances are that if you don't have the perfect salary or benefits...you can still go to work and enjoy your career for the rest of your life. Believe me- working in a hospital is stressful, sad, joyful, and consumes a lot of time (at work and home). If you do not truly love the study of medicine and people...you are doing no justice by becoming a doctor. If you decide to be a doctor-please try and be compassionate even when you are exhausted...you may be the last or only shoulder for a 90 year old man to lean on when he loses his beloved wife of 50 years. Don't you want to go home and think, " I did my job today and I did it right!" Money isn't everything and being a doctor is a tremendous opportunity to make a difference. Good luck.

excellent sentiments!! we need more people going into medicine for the right reasons!!!

 

[Twitch]

Two words - Job Satisfaction.

Sure there are other professions where you can help folks, but is it at the same time intellectually challenging. On your job, think about the last time someone shook your hands and really thanked you for improving their quality of life or perhaps even saving it while at the same time you felt your intellectual prowess at full steam.

And I hear the money isn't too shabby either.

 

[daelroy]

More experienced physicians complain the most because their world changed drastically. Doctors in the 80's were living the life. They could charge whatever they wanted and the reimbursement from insurance companies was much higher than it is today. They also didn't have to worry about paying for high insurance premiums and deal with loads of paperwork. So if you are one of these docs, of course you are going to think medicine stinks.

However,compared to the average American employee, doctors still have it quite good to put it mildly. Yes, with the high cost of education, stress and long school tenure comes a 6 figure salary, job security, respect, and intellectual challenge. I would much rather work long hours in a hospital than do back breaking labor on a farm, construction or a steel mill to name a few jobs. Hell, I would much rather be an overworked physician who earns 6 figures than a 50 year old IT guy who lost his job to outsourcing. Even the lowest paid physicians still earn on average in the 120K range. Even the "dreaded" family practice doc still earns a 126K on average compared to 66K for all attorneys. Do you realize that less than 2% of the population in the United States earns over 6 figures? And most physicians earn 200K or more per year which is less than a 1% of what the total U.S. population earns in a year. Let's throw in the respect factor, job security and flexibility and the picture looks less bleak for physicians.If you don't like stress, move to some small town and work less hours. There are many fields of medicine that entail a better lifestyle if one is willing to accept less pay; no one said you had to go into surgery. If you hate paperwork, hire an assistant to take care of it for you. If you want to earn more money, move to a state or region that has a physician shortage; no one forced you to live in Southern California or the East Coast.

I still laugh when docs and people in general cry about their harsh lifestyle. That's not a harsh lifestyle. A harsh lifestyle is that of a Hispanic immigrant who mows lawns all day and then works at fast food at night for 20K per year. Yes, physician's lifestyle isn't as good as it was but it's still way better than many professionals in the U.S. I'm not denying that physicians work hard and deal with extraordinary amounts of stress; that's not the issue. The issue is that physicians still enjoy rewards that many people in this country will never experience and only wished they had. Keep in mind that there are a lot of lawyers, engineers and MBA executives who are unemployed and would do anything to earn a paycheck right now let alone a 6 figure one.

Peace

 

[AtomKr]

I heard all that stuff about medicine too. It's not what it used to be, etc. etc. Remember, medicine attracts (and has attracted in the past) not just those who want to help people (you can help people as a nurse, a missionary, a member of the peace corps...) but those who like intellectual challenges and autonomy AS WELL AS a sense of personal duty to others. Anyway, you can see why the intellectual or autonomist has become a little less enamoured with medicine- it's not as much fun to take care of the whole business side of running a practice, or haggle with insurers.

On the other hand, the doctors who told me all this are volunteers at a free clinic for uninsured families that they helped found. The clinic sees about 100 patients a night, and provides ongoing primary care as well as a host of in-house speciality clinics. Some doctors (retired) put in a full work week here, after seeing patients, speaking with drug reps, attending board meetings, etc.

Something didn't make sense to me. There's a lot of frustration involved in a free clinic, and believe it or not it can be a thankless job. In my opinion, they can say what they want, but I believe they truly love practicing medicine and don't want to leave. Their actions are what finally convinced me to go into medicine after all.

 

[premed]

Everybody likes to complain about how their profession is not like it was in the good old days. Take it with a grain of salt.

Sure most people complain about their jobs...but take it with a grain of salt!?!?!?!?!? I work with many doctors in my lab and I have befriended all of them. When they seriously tell me to not go into medicine I seriously consider their advice. I mean there must be something bad about it that they are actively trying to convince us not to go into medicine. I am still working to be a physician but maybe we're all in for the biggest disappointment in our lives!

 

[deuist]

I am a pre-med student at the University of Florida.
I have been taking to a lot of doctors lately, and all of them have told me not to go to med school. They all have told me that it is just not worth it anymore, and that it is not the same as it used to be. They all tell me how bad the mal-practice insurance is, how you get sued all the time, the money isnt the same, and numerous other disadvantages.
Has anyone talked to any doctors and gotten similar responses? or maybe just the opposite?

I've heard it both ways. I think that a person's feelings on practicing medicine depend on several factors such as why did you REALLY want to be a doctor? Was it the money, only to realize that you won't become very rich? Was it the prestige, only to realize that the title doesn't carry much weight? Or was it that you wanted direct patient contact, yet you have to fill out tons of paperwork, have few decisions as to what course of action to take for healthcare, and are constantly worried that you'll say or do the wrong thing and end up getting sued?

Also, some disgruntled physicians may be so disappointed with the profession because they had ideas of a Utopia. Realize that medicine is A LOT of work. And I don't mean work with the patients. I mean all the crap that doctors go through: HMOs, lawyers, paperwork, other health care providers giving different advice, lawyers, the long hours, and lawyers.

Finally, it all depends on what field of medicine you enter. If you do emergency medicine, you will have set hours (usually 36-40 hours a week), you are never on-call, and you don't have to purchase malpractice insurance. If, however, you go into surgery, prepare for an early burn out. Also, all military physicians have set hours and are not on call. Just one of the reasons I'm joining the Air Force.

 

[premed]

I've heard it both ways. I think that a person's feelings on practicing medicine depend on several factors such as why did you REALLY want to be a doctor? Was it the money, only to realize that you won't become very rich? Was it the prestige, only to realize that the title doesn't carry much weight? Or was it that you wanted direct patient contact, yet you have to fill out tons of paperwork, have few decisions as to what course of action to take for healthcare, and are constantly worried that you'll say or do the wrong thing and end up getting sued?

Also, some disgruntled physicians may be so disappointed with the profession because they had ideas of a Utopia. Realize that medicine is A LOT of work. And I don't mean work with the patients. I mean all the crap that doctors go through: HMOs, lawyers, paperwork, other health care providers giving different advice, lawyers, the long hours, and lawyers.

Finally, it all depends on what field of medicine you enter. If you do emergency medicine, you will have set hours (usually 36-40 hours a week), you are never on-call, and you don't have to purchase malpractice insurance. If, however, you go into surgery, prepare for an early burn out. Also, all military physicians have set hours and are not on call. Just one of the reasons I'm joining the Air Force.

Very well said! 👍

 

[jgarlovsky]

More experienced physicians complain the most because their world changed drastically. Doctors in the 80's were living the life. They could charge whatever they wanted and the reimbursement from insurance companies was much higher than it is today. They also didn't have to worry about paying for high insurance premiums and deal with loads of paperwork. So if you are one of these docs, of course you are going to think medicine stinks.

However,compared to the average American employee, doctors still have it quite good to put it mildly. Yes, with the high cost of education, stress and long school tenure comes a 6 figure salary, job security, respect, and intellectual challenge. I would much rather work long hours in a hospital than do back breaking labor on a farm, construction or a steel mill to name a few jobs. Hell, I would much rather be an overworked physician who earns 6 figures than a 50 year old IT guy who lost his job to outsourcing. Even the lowest paid physicians still earn on average in the 120K range. Even the "dreaded" family practice doc still earns a 126K on average compared to 66K for all attorneys. Do you realize that less than 2% of the population in the United States earns over 6 figures? And most physicians earn 200K or more per year which is less than a 1% of what the total U.S. population earns in a year. Let's throw in the respect factor, job security and flexibility and the picture looks less bleak for physicians.If you don't like stress, move to some small town and work less hours. There are many fields of medicine that entail a better lifestyle if one is willing to accept less pay; no one said you had to go into surgery. If you hate paperwork, hire an assistant to take care of it for you. If you want to earn more money, move to a state or region that has a physician shortage; no one forced you to live in Southern California or the East Coast.

I still laugh when docs and people in general cry about their harsh lifestyle. That's not a harsh lifestyle. A harsh lifestyle is that of a Hispanic immigrant who mows lawns all day and then works at fast food at night for 20K per year. Yes, physician's lifestyle isn't as good as it was but it's still way better than many professionals in the U.S. I'm not denying that physicians work hard and deal with extraordinary amounts of stress; that's not the issue. The issue is that physicians still enjoy rewards that many people in this country will never experience and only wished they had. Keep in mind that there are a lot of lawyers, engineers and MBA executives who are unemployed and would do anything to earn a paycheck right now let alone a 6 figure one.

Peace

Best response ever.

 

[no-see-um]

You don't know what it's like to have to pay back loans.

 

[mike3kgt]

For some reason, doctors like to complain a lot about their profession... I've experienced this first hand for several years. I don't REALLY know why... sometimes it seems like a remark made up by the big "doctor network" to keep people out of medicine who don't really want to do it.

I often make the analogy of medicine to a college fraternity. The same way fraternity brothers stick together, doctors seems to stick together (I mean, look at us already; we post on a student doctor network because we feel comfortable with each other!) Using our analogy, the process to become a practicing physician is basically a big hazing ritual, similar to becoming a full-fledged member of a fraternity.... pre-med courses such as o-chem and physics are there to weed people out... the application process includes secondaries to only keep the more dedicated people... AAMC makes the MCAT super-tricky to see if you will stand for the challange.... Residents have to BUST their asses in their first couple of years to prove themselves. In the end, its just a bunch of work and barriers to get to be in the position of the attendings... of course, this is not to say that you don't use some of what you learned along the way... But I think most people would agree with me when I say the medical education process is relatively archaic and drawn-out.

Anyway, if you decide to use this fraternity analogy, then docs telling you not to enter medicine is just a comment that makes up a part of the hazing ritual. Sadly, sometimes I feel as if one must treat the process to becoming a physician as a game... hey, it helps me get through it! Just my two cents... yes, I do think off-the-wall at times!

Absolutely rediculous. I don't think my father, sister, mother, and brother are all in some sort of "medical fraternity" and hazed me to keep me out of medicine. I don't think the countless # of physicians who I have spoken to in private practice, government, medical schools, and in my local hospital (where I practically grew up in the Dr. lounge) would try to 'haze' me. Many of these doctors have had discussions sharing their true feelings, and it's not pretty.

I think deuist said it best:

I've heard it both ways. I think that a person's feelings on practicing medicine depend on several factors such as why did you REALLY want to be a doctor? Was it the money, only to realize that you won't become very rich? Was it the prestige, only to realize that the title doesn't carry much weight? Or was it that you wanted direct patient contact, yet you have to fill out tons of paperwork, have few decisions as to what course of action to take for healthcare, and are constantly worried that you'll say or do the wrong thing and end up getting sued?

You have to go into medicine for the right reasons. Many students still go into medicine for money (poll taken by a medical school's first year class showed this fact), which is wrong. One needs unrelenting altrusim and dedication to prosper in medicine. Altruism in applicants, however, cannot beget ignorance and inaction.

It is true the grass is always greener on the other side, but please remember, many doctors' main complain is not that they are making less $, but the fact that they now often see many patients as a liability and that 3rd parties dictate what procedures they can do, fees they can charge, and how to run their practice! It is more a matter of pride, respect, and independence. Trial lawyers litigate and spit on doctors' pride, ignored the respect doctors desire, and chipped away at their independence. (Insurance companies are partly to blame as well, to give a fair share 🙂)

Altrustism is a beautiful reason to go into medicine, but let me ask you a question... what if you felt less apt to helping somebody who desparately needs your help just because you felt that this person could sue for the slighest thing and easily get a frivolous lawsuit against you? What if your insurance company could settle your case without your approval?

I assure you that this is not coming out of nowhere... they have all happened to my family.

But then again, we do choose to live in South Florida.

-Mike

 

[azcomdiddy]

You have to go into medicine for the right reasons. Many students still go into medicine for money (poll taken by a medical school's first year class showed this fact), which is wrong. One needs unrelenting altrusim and dedication to prosper in medicine. Altruism in applicants, however, cannot beget ignorance and inaction.

It is true the grass is always greener on the other side, but please remember, many doctors' main complain is not that they are making less $, but the fact that they now often see many patients as a liability and that 3rd parties dictate what procedures they can do, fees they can charge, and how to run their practice! It is more a matter of pride, respect, and independence. Trial lawyers litigate and spit on doctors' pride, ignored the respect doctors desire, and chipped away at their independence. (Insurance companies are partly to blame as well, to give a fair share 🙂)

Altrustism is a beautiful reason to go into medicine, but let me ask you a question... what if you felt less apt to helping somebody who desparately needs your help just because you felt that this person could sue for the slighest thing and easily get a frivolous lawsuit against you? What if your insurance company could settle your case without your approval?

I assure you that this is not coming out of nowhere... they have all happened to my family.

But then again, we do choose to live in South Florida.

-Mike

I'm glad you prefaced your post with the fact that you live in South Florida because now I understand your tone. I have heard horror stories from docs in South Florida. It is such a litigious society out there. I believe your sincerity now because I can imagine that it can get pretty bad in Florida. I read in article in U.S.A. Today about doctors in South Florida not carrying insurance as a means of deterring law suits. Surgeons in Florida suffer the most.

However, understand that location means everything when it comes to the practice of medicine. I know doctors in small towns that are making triple what the average salary of their profession with the respect and autonomy they crave. Of course, the trade is that they live in small town with very little to do.

I think in medicine, you can find a balance. You don't have to live in South Florida or So Cal but you can certainly live in a suburb outside of a large cities in the south, midwest and most of the west aside from California.

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

Also, all military physicians have set hours and are not on call. Just one of the reasons I'm joining the Air Force.

You might want to tell that to the Air Force physicians I worked with when I was in. They'd be quite surprised to know that they weren't supposed to be pulling call and working unusual hours.

Where did you hear that load of crap from? Sure, there are some specialties in military medicine that will work regular hours and never pull call, but those specialties are probably like that in the civilian world as well.

Besides, those "set hours" and "no call" go right out the bloody window if you get deployed. I'd hardly call ~6 months in the sandbox "set hours".

 

[susannaQ]

I'm glad you prefaced your post with the fact that you live in South Florida because now I understand your tone. I have heard horror stories from docs in South Florida. It is such a litigious society out there. I believe your sincerity now because I can imagine that it can get pretty bad in Florida. I read in article in U.S.A. Today about doctors in South Florida not carrying insurance as a means of deterring law suits. Surgeons in Florida suffer the most.

Why are doctors being litigated more in Florida and South California? I haven't heard of this? This doesn't have anything to do with the higher elderly population, does it?

 

[Agent Splat]

I had an oral surgeon tell me similar stuff about medicine in general...but then he told me that oral surgery was a GREAT field to get into...right before he slashed my gums open with a scalpel and cleared out an abcess from my wisdom tooth extraction a month prior.

 

[Hernandez]

I've heard it both ways. I think that a person's feelings on practicing medicine depend on several factors such as why did you REALLY want to be a doctor? Was it the money, only to realize that you won't become very rich? Was it the prestige, only to realize that the title doesn't carry much weight? Or was it that you wanted direct patient contact, yet you have to fill out tons of paperwork, have few decisions as to what course of action to take for healthcare, and are constantly worried that you'll say or do the wrong thing and end up getting sued?

Also, some disgruntled physicians may be so disappointed with the profession because they had ideas of a Utopia. Realize that medicine is A LOT of work. And I don't mean work with the patients. I mean all the crap that doctors go through: HMOs, lawyers, paperwork, other health care providers giving different advice, lawyers, the long hours, and lawyers.

Finally, it all depends on what field of medicine you enter. If you do emergency medicine, you will have set hours (usually 36-40 hours a week), you are never on-call, and you don't have to purchase malpractice insurance. If, however, you go into surgery, prepare for an early burn out. Also, all military physicians have set hours and are not on call. Just one of the reasons I'm joining the Air Force.

I've think you've got it wrong, I don't think there is anyone that thinks medicne is a "Utopia", you'll learn very quick it's not after spending 40+ hours studying for you first anatomy test and barely making a b, or only getting 19 hours sleep the last week and half of finals, that being a physcian is hard work, while many can't adequitly explain why things despritly need to change, (myself being one who can't) things right now have the possibility to forever ruin our loved profession,

Those applying to medical school should do some serious studying about TORT reform and the current medical insurance system in place, not to mention the various laws and paperwork required, and the with the liability laws it is risky to be in certain specialities,

YMMV, but some things to consider, ohh and the comment about the self-fullfilling profession i think should be the most important consideration before you apply to med school

 

[!dr_nick!]

Where did you hear that load of crap from? Sure, there are some specialties in military medicine that will work regular hours and never pull call, but those specialties are probably like that in the civilian world as well.

Military recruiters will tell you anything to get you to sign up. If you want guarantees, get something in writing, and have an attorney review it before you sign.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

I'm currently working on a book with some SDN moderators. Here is something I wrote that relates to this:

There are few careers like medicine that allow one to assist human beings during their times of illness and greatest need. As an ophthalmologist, I witness regularly the immense gratitude patients express after being able to see following their cataract surgeries. I evaluated a patient who could see only hand motions due to a dense white cataract. He was ecstatic to be able to see his wife?s face immediately after surgery. Even a physician's reassurance that things will be okay may provide comfort to patients and their families. My interactions with patients and the personal gratification I receive when assisting my patients are priceless. While not every patient encounter is as potent as the example above, the medical profession consists of countless stories of miracles that enhance the lives of others in every specialty of medicine. It is the gratification associated with patient care that is the driving force behind physicians? desire to study, sacrifice, and devote their lives to learning the art of medicine...

The U.S. medical system continually evolves depending on the needs of society and the individuals who provide medical services. Due to financial pressures, our current health system is under considerable stress. It is difficult to pick up a newspaper without seeing a headline about malpractice reform, Medicare funding, or medical insurance. What does the future hold for my generation of physicians? I am not a fortune teller. Predicting the future of medicine is as successful as picking the hot stocks. On the other hand, similar to how older physicians must learn new medical knowledge and biomedical advances, physicians must learn to adapt to the changing financial, political, and social demands. There are no Fortune 500 companies that can remain static and survive. Successful companies develop new strategies as the market demands for their products and services shift. Likewise, in order to be successful, physicians need to adapt, change, and grow.
While the future is uncertain, medicine is an exceedingly rewarding profession, financially, personally, and socially. Medicine provides an intellectually stimulating environment. A career as a physician allows the melding of one?s thirst for scientific knowledge with the ability to make a difference in other people's lives. No other career will provide this degree of responsibility and challenge. Furthermore, physicians are still one of the highest paid professions in the U.S.; however, I strongly believe that financial reimbursement is icing on the cake. If individuals do not enjoy their careers, then money becomes the shackle that binds them to the profession they despise.

 

[smc927]

Hey my doctor takes $10,000 vacations, sometimes twice a year.
He also drives really nice cars. (plural)
Yes he works crazy long hours but he sure is living better than me.
He takes his family out for $400 meals. I don't spend that much in a month for food.
But then again my phone never rings during the night - let alone more than once. So the more you make the more is expected of you time wise.
He basically wants for nothing - except more free time.
But when he does get free time - he plays good, travels the world, and enjoys spending his hard earned money.
But then again he pays more in taxes than I make a year.

And he'll be in debt 'til the day he dies! 😉

 

[ArmCandy]

jdgator Is just saying that stuff to thin out the competition. Being a doctor is easy.

 

[cmed13]

I enjoyed reading everyones oppinion of doctors. One thing I have to say from the start. Dont make generalizations. Medicine has so many different fields and specialties that it is hard to compare physician attitudes and easy to descriminate. MD's DO's are all people with families, loans and problems like the rest of societies workforce.

The decision to be a doc like any decision in life has to come from the heart but dont be fooled you should also be money savy. If its just money you want look at alternatives that will get you there( I think thats what most of docs out there try to tell people that are looking for $$$$ )

When I was in college I was told the same thing. DONT DO IT MAN!!!
I was making 7$ an hour at Barry Bagels in Ann Arbor, MI and he was making 500k a year. And I was saying to myself yah right dude....what can possibily make you not want to do this.

Having said all that here are a few points to consider:

1. Money. Ranges greatly but the more time you spend in Residency 3-8 years and the more responsibility you have....the more you make.....Each decision you make can change the patients life, and yours!!!!

2. MONEY ....Believe me....does not amount to happines. IT HELPS...dont get me wrong but can you live without it until youre 32....33 years old while your engineer friends already have a 2nd summer home...and 2 kids? When you do get the big pay day...you will be used to live in small apartments and spending all your time in stinking libraries so of course you will buy a big house and a big car...but after you'll realise DAMN I was already happy in the ****hole aparment...and I still go to a movie for fun. The expensive car thing is overrated. So what if an MD has a beamer etc...think the extra buttons and bigger engine make up for lost time with friends, family and the stress of allways having to prove onself to the world...NOPE!

3. Be ready to have to allways prove yourself to your peers(the backstabbing "Frat" members" ) whom are the biggest cause of lawsuits because they badmouth each other....and to your patients who are allways demanding(which is ok if polite) and dont see you as a human being with mood swings. YES MD's have mood swings and sometimes yell at each other and at nurses......whom often yell back 🙂 for the same reasons. SOME OF YOU WILL BE THOSE PEOPLE SOMEDAY 🙂

4. Those "fun" Biochem tests in Colege...I miss them. The MCAT is a joke compared to the tests that lie ahead. 3 HUGE tests to become licensed (USMLE) for which you will have to study 2-3 months all day and night. Then once those are over there is Residency. For the ones that offer a good lifestile and money you have to compete harder than you did for medical school. The ones that got shafted hold lifelong resentment toward the other MDs...so on. Especiall those that went in thinking big bucks but got stuck to a Family Practice residency earning Less than 80,000 to start. Radiology for Example(a 5 year comitment) has 2 more summer ruining tests and one Oral Board for which if you dont stuy the entire year you have not a prayer in passing..... (oh of course medical scool is the nightmear from hell especially the first 2 years...competing with some of the best students around can cause early grey hair formation.

5. Oh if you dont pass any of the above you have to suffer more and retake them or be damed to repaying your 150,000 in loans with a burger king job.


There is lots more details that I did not think about and nor do most people...before they embark on the long journey to an MD or DO. It was definitely hard somedays. and still is...but beyond the stress and the money think of fulfiling the greates human reward. To be needed by others and to help society.
We all like to think there are easier ways to make the big bucks thats why the lottery does so well but truth is you have to work hard no matter what you do...bussines, law, medicine even drug dealers 🙂. Some people get used to it and learn to enjoy their career and others become hateful and suffer. You just have to choose the right path.

LONG STORY SHORT DO WHAt YOU ENJOY AND ENJOY WHAT YOU DO!!!
And any career is an investment in your future....You certainly will not go wrong chosing medicine.

Sory for any sp. errs 🙁

 

[Blisterpeanuts]

The decision to be a doc like any decision in life has to come from the heart but dont be fooled you should also be money savy. If its just money you want look at alternatives that will get you there( I think thats what most of docs out there try to tell people that are looking for $$$$ )
...

Interesting thread. I've had several young docs advise against going into the profession. Sad; they've just finished spending 13 years of their life, basically they have blown through their 20s and part of their 30s and starting to have grey hair, varicose veins and wondering what happened to their youth.

Lots of professions have their dark moments. As a software engineer I've put in some long hours; stayed at work until 5AM one day, fixing lotsa bugs. Next day the manager threatened to fire me for being late to work or some such thing. I gritted my teeth and stayed because my stock options hadn't yet matured. But I took a lot of Tums that year.

Basically software is about solving fun puzzles for mean and nasty people. I'd like to be solving different kind of puzzles--curing people's illnesses, or at least improving their lives in some way. That's worth the 8 year income sacrifice I'm about to make. Sure as hell isn't about the money for me.

Backstabbing by colleagues? Yelling at each other? Sounds a lot like money managers at investment firms. Those guys will pick up a phone and throw it against the wall to make a point. They make $500K/year plus bonuses. Some make seven figures. It seems that high pressure, high income positions can be dehumanizing. It's worth knowing that as one enters the profession. I am going into this to be more of a compassionate person, not to abuse nurses.

Sorry about the disjointed post, just rambling late at night.

 

[JattMed]

People, you will always hear this from doctors, "You'd be better off entering something else besides medicine, it is just not worth it". The question that begs to be asked is, 'then why don't you quit?"
A significant number of your classmates in medschool are children, or grandchildren of doctors.
If the case of medicine being such a poor career choice was even remotely true don't you think that these people would definitely not let their children choose medicine as a career.
Children of doctors 'see' the upside and downside of being a doctor first hand through their experiences of growing up in a 'physician household'.
So if by assuming this to be true and accurate it would seem silly for such children to emulate their parents by entering into such a 'terrible/difficult/not worth it' profession.
Message: it is all a big lie perpetuated to keep medicine for those that the profession's members assume are 'worthy'. Keep it in the family vis a vis Hippocratic Oath.
Sorry to say it but medical students 'grow up' to become doctors and these very same people were just like 'the loud red headed dude in row #1 who would spread rumours of a test question (it was a lie)'....just to skew the curve.
Medical students are sneaky, cunning, overly competitive liars who would do anything to get ahead. Well not all of course........honest...

I remember some guy put on his apps that he helped coach Special Olympics (fresh, coming from a guy whose every second word was, 'you F'n ******!'). Yes he got in to medicine.
So this deranged element is out there with their over-competitive nature that will continue to spread the lie, "Medicine is just not worth it".
You should then tell them, "Dude you should just quit and become a janitor, I hear they have a great health plan" and then see the reaction.

Uh huh oh yeah.......it is worth a laugh.......

 

[Fed Meat]

Why are doctors being litigated more in Florida and South California? I haven't heard of this? This doesn't have anything to do with the higher elderly population, does it?

Consider the fact that there are more lawyers per capita in southern California than anywhere in the US. Everyone knows a lawyer. Everyone is after money because the price of living is so high. Everyone is out to have the flashy car, and everyone thinks they should have one.

Southern California and South Florida breed entitlement. And the lawyers are more than willing to cash in on that. Everyone is after the carefree lifestyle, and the minute their life isn't carefree, somebody is doing them wrong.

It helps that California has passed legislation that controls punitive damages, but while that has kept the payouts down, it hasn't completely capped
the number of lawsuits being filed (still way above the national average).

What else? More urban populations are more apt to be letigious than less urban populations. This is in part due to feeling less a part of a community and also in part due to more diverse populations (I've seen several studies noting that people of different races are more apt to sue one another).

 

[cmed13]

People, you will always hear this from doctors, "You'd be better off entering something else besides medicine, it is just not worth it". The question that begs to be asked is, 'then why don't you quit?"
A significant number of your classmates in medschool are children, or grandchildren of doctors.
If the case of medicine being such a poor career choice was even remotely true don't you think that these people would definitely not let their children choose medicine as a career.
Children of doctors 'see' the upside and downside of being a doctor first hand through their experiences of growing up in a 'physician household'.
So if by assuming this to be true and accurate it would seem silly for such children to emulate their parents by entering into such a 'terrible/difficult/not worth it' profession.
Message: it is all a big lie perpetuated to keep medicine for those that the profession's members assume are 'worthy'. Keep it in the family vis a vis Hippocratic Oath.
Sorry to say it but medical students 'grow up' to become doctors and these very same people were just like 'the loud red headed dude in row #1 who would spread rumours of a test question (it was a lie)'....just to skew the curve.
Medical students are sneaky, cunning, overly competitive liars who would do anything to get ahead. Well not all of course........honest...

I remember some guy put on his apps that he helped coach Special Olympics (fresh, coming from a guy whose every second word was, 'you F'n ******!'). Yes he got in to medicine.
So this deranged element is out there with their over-competitive nature that will continue to spread the lie, "Medicine is just not worth it".
You should then tell them, "Dude you should just quit and become a janitor, I hear they have a great health plan" and then see the reaction.

Uh huh oh yeah.......it is worth a laugh.......

I think you're being a little paranoid. Doctors dont get toghether to screw people over. Yes its frustrating getting into medical school..which based on your anger you may have not...BUT you allways have the option of attending a foreign medical school with excellent chances of practicing in the US.
To the earlier comment "why not just get out of medicine if they dont like it"
Think about it...if you spent 15 years training for something, in debt etc...you cannot afford to change careers.....Although to their credit some docs do. In my residency there was a guy who spent 4years training for Orthopedics then decided to switch to our program and start from 0 .

 

[tastywithmilk]

I went to see a specialst the other day for a pain in my shoulder. Towards the end of the exam we got talking about school in general and he asked if I have thought of becoming a doctor. I replied "yeah, actually I am pre-med."

His response was "Good, there is no better job in the world."

 

[Trismegistus4]

I think daelroy said it best.

Two common objections to medicine I don't understand:

1. "You have to sacrifice your 20s, the best years of your life, to med school, 80 hour weeks in residency, etc." Sacrifice them in what way? What else would I be doing? People who make this objection seem to think that everyone who is not a doctor spends their 20s living some kind of glamourous, jet-setting life replete with exotic vacations and exciting adventures. Look, I'm 27. I've spent the last 4 years working in a corporate IT job. I get up in the morning, I go to work, I come home in the evening. I get 2 weeks of vacation a year. Except for my modest exercise regimen, I pretty much spend my spare time sitting around my apartment reading or watching movies. I'm a pathetic loser, I know, and there are people my in my circumstances (like some of my coworkers) who get season tickets to sports games, go nightclubbing, etc., but that's not me. I suppose I could have spent some time backpacking around Europe or something, but I had never heard of that sort of thing being done until recently, and frankly I'd be too chicken to give up my "stable" job and attempt to live day-to-day by picking up odd jobs here and there. If I had gone to med school straight out of college, and were now in residency, I'd hardly be sacrificing much of anything.

I realize some people do spend their 20s living on the edge and enjoying it, but not everyone is that kind of person, and I'd even venture to say that the vast majority aren't.

2. "There are much better ways to make money." It depends on what you mean by "better" and "make money." If you mean that there exist other endeavors in which it is possible to make more money than it is possible to make in medicine, I agree with you. If you want to become a billionaire, or hundred-millionaire, medicine isn't going to cut it. If you want to retire at 35, medicine is not for you. But the doctors and pre-med students who raise this objection usually state that the business world is preferable for money, ignoring the fact that the business world involves huge amounts of risk vis-a-vis the famed job security of medicine. You might get your MBA and simply not be able to land a high-paying job; you might join a corporation and have no success climbing the ladder; you might get a managerial position but make a few bad decisions, cost the company a lot of money, get fired, and have your reputation ruined; you might sink everything you have into starting your own business only to see it flop. Furthermore, these are not mere slim possibilities, they actually happen to a large proportion of people who try to make it in business. Contrast that with medicine. As daelroy pointed out, what other profession virtually guarantees you six figures? If you think law or business do, look up the statistics yourself.

As I've had multiple doctors tell me, medicine is a great job. Just because the insurance companies and Medicare are no longer such suckers that you can bill $800 for 5 minutes of your time and they'll just pay it, and many patients are noncompliant and litigious, doesn't mean it's not still a great job.

 

[no-see-um]

If you like the work, be an MD. If you want lots of money for little work, it's the wrong field. If you want lots of money, be prepared to see it harder to do so.

If you are a smart lawyer, the pay:work ratio is better. You can get paid $200 for 3 questions.....

Client: How much do you charge?
Lawyer: I'll charge you $200 for 3 questions.
Client: That much! That's crazy! How can you live with yourself?
Lawyer: You have one more question, $200 please..

Not far from the truth...