Doctor's Titles?

[gnin]

This is probably a dumb question, but can graduates of foreign medical schools with degrees like MBBS use the title "MD" after their names if they practice medicine in the USA? Does the policy on this vary by state? How about if they practice medicine in Canada?

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[erichaj]

Yes, because you will be doing residency all over again.

EH.

 

[johnny_blaze]

Yup. Foreign MBBS/MBChB = US MD

I dunno about the rest of Canada but IMGs in Ontario don’t use MD, they use MBBS/MBChB.

 

[PathOne]

While the MD is a advanced post-med school research degree in the UK, a lot of MBBS/MBChB's switch to MD when coming to the US. Never heard that should be a problem. A minority keep their original degree title, even though it'll probably be confusing to some patients and colleagues. But if you go back to the UK, it's probably NOT a good idea to call yourself MD - unless you've received the UK MD degree, which is more or less comparable to a medical Ph.D.

 

[Miklos]

While the MD is a advanced post-med school research degree in the UK, a lot of MBBS/MBChB's switch to MD when coming to the US. Never heard that should be a problem. A minority keep their original degree title, even though it'll probably be confusing to some patients and colleagues. But if you go back to the UK, it's probably NOT a good idea to call yourself MD - unless you've received the UK MD degree, which is more or less comparable to a medical Ph.D.

Interestingly, if you qualify in a country where an MD is awarded and then gain registration in the UK, the GMC will list this as your qualification along with the name of the university.

 

[PathOne]

Yes, that's true. The UK wouldn't "convert" your plain old foreign "M.D." to a MBBS/MBchB". I guess the world would be a slightly easier place to live if MD was the standard title...

 

[OzDDS]

I guess the world would be a slightly easier place to live if MD was the standard title...

Or MBBS

Actually, the med schools in the US were founded by the UK docs. and if I'm not mistaken the first few medical degrees to be awarded in the US were the MB bachelor of med. was it Penn University? not sure... anyways

 

[PathOne]

In principle, yes. However, while the UK one ruled the seven seas and all that, I think it's fair to say that the US has taken the lead in the medical world. So MD does somehow make more sense. Except that it's somewhat of a misnomer because a dissertation is normally required for a Doctorate...

 

[OzDDS]

True.. but calling everyone a doctor these days seems to be commonplace in the US. I think we have twisted the true tradition of medical education. I feel although the US may be the leader in many supspecilized areas of medicine in the modern world. The UK gives us a better representation of true degrees. The way the US has let money and politics control education these days sort of devalues ones titles in the US to an extint.

 

[Miklos]

True.. but calling everyone a doctor these days seems to be commonplace in the US. I think we have twisted the true tradition of medical education. I feel although the US may be the leader in many supspecilized areas of medicine in the modern world. The UK gives us a better representation of true degrees. The way the US has let money and politics control education these days sort of devalues ones titles in the US to an extint.

Why is it that the U.S. higher educational system is the most successful in the world?

There is a reason, since tens of thousands of foreigners come to the U.S. each year for higher education (including, of course, several thousand for post-graduate medical education).

Miklos

 

[PathOne]

I think it's fairly hard to argue against the US having the broadest and deepest medical system in the world (for physicians, if not necessarily for patients w/o insurance).

However, the lack of consistency in academia must sometimes be seen as somewhat amusing. Ever wondered why a M.D., D.O., and even a D.P.M. are invariably by themselves and others referred to as "doctor", while a lawyer would be laughed out of any room if (s)he called her/himself "doctor". Why, really? Their degree is called a JD - Juris Doctor, and while a year shorter, is also a professional post-bac degree.

As an aside: In certain European countries, notably Germany and Switzerland, it's still not customary to call yourself "Dr." unless you've made a dr. med. dissertation (which arguably isn't the hardest degree to get). But if you don't have it, you're plain old "Mr." or "Ms.".

 

[gnin]

" Their degree is called a JD - Juris Doctor, and while a year shorter, is also a professional post-bac degree."

A north american law degree was for many years called an "LLB" (Bachelor of Law), and still is in Canada. It was changed to JD in the US in the 60's to make it seem more prestigious.

 

[PathOne]

Just another example of title inflation to go along with grade inflation. Now you've got JD, PharmD, a lot of "D"'s out there. And when the grad's doesn't even refer to their "Doctorate" themselves, well......

 

[f_w]

> As an aside: In certain European countries, notably Germany and
> Switzerland, it's still not customary to call yourself "Dr." unless
> you've made a dr. med. dissertation (which arguably isn't the
> hardest degree to get). But if you don't have it, you're plain old
> "Mr." or "Ms.".

It is actually illegal to call yourself doctor if you haven't received your doctorate through a dissertation. A physician from a country where you receive the title without a dissertation would not be considered a 'doctor'. PhD's have to petition to the state ministry of education to get the right to use the title (which is typically granted without a problem).

After I started working with a couple of MBBS's I wondered how the legal situation is here in the states. As my medical school diploma doesn't give me the title of 'doctor' but rather 'physician', I stay on the safe side and don't put it on any of my communications (if the hospital prints it on my business cards, I don't object).

 

[PathOne]

Actually, you can't call yourself a physician in the US unless you have a license.

 

[OzDDS]

north american law degree was for many years called an "LLB" (Bachelor of Law), and still is in Canada. It was changed to JD in the US in the 60's to make it seem more prestigious.

Exactly! This is a rampant in all professional fields in the US. Just look at Physical therapy programs now. This has no reflection on the quality of the program you graduated from.

 

[Santiago]

This is probably a dumb question, but can graduates of foreign medical schools with degrees like MBBS use the title "MD" after their names if they practice medicine in the USA? Does the policy on this vary by state? How about if they practice medicine in Canada?

hmmm,
I would like to make a small contribution here. In my country after MBBS( consisting of 4 1/2 years) and a rotating internship of 1 year, you can use the prefix Dr. before your name but it still does not allow you to write MD after your name. For MD, you have to do a 3 year residency and then take the MD exams and also clear them.

And yes, PhD's can use Dr. as prefixes just like in any other nation, I guess.


hth..

 

[leorl]

And then it gets really confusing in the UK when doctors at a more senior level at an academic institution are awarded the term "Professor."

 

[Winged Scapula]

Exactly! This is a rampant in all professional fields in the US. Just look at Physical therapy programs now. This has no reflection on the quality of the program you graduated from.

What's up with PT programs? Just curious, once being a PT major myself.

 

[OzDDS]

What's up with PT programs? Just curious, once being a PT major myself.

Well, In the US.. they don't mind allowing money and politics control everything. Even when it eats away at the tradition of our education system these days.

Basically, Chiropractors in the US have a "doctorate degree" (if you want to call it that) the DC degree and they have direct access to patients. Recently Chiros have been moving into more "sports med" type practice and moving in on PTs turff. Well, since PTs pretty much rely on referrals from Physicans, they feel the chiros are taking away their buisness. SOoo.. the answer they feel is to all of this.. is to change the physical therapy degree to "yet another so called doctorate degree" and then begin to politically vie for more direct access to patients. It's all quite silly and sad really.

But guess what... at the end of the day, your still a physical therpist. Calling the degree something else doesnt change their scope of practice or what they can charge really. The (UK) "Bachelor of Physiotherpy", the old (US) "bachelor of physical therpy", the (US) "Master of physical therapy", and yes even the new (US) "doctor of physical therpay" will really be just equivilent degrees. (1st professional entry level degrees to the field of physical therapy).

 

[OzDDS]

I just wanted to add.. I hate to see PT sink to this level.. Being a PT should be something to be proud of. at least for PT I can say that it is a much needed service and based on quality evidence based med than say some of their other competing fields.