Does anyone else smoke cigarettes?

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As the child of a smoker, quit. You smell like ****, and if you smoke in your house and car, your kids will smell. Also, why let all that money just float away. It was tough watching my family choose smoking over fruits and vegetables, but it is stupid to pay for cigarettes over rental properties or paying down interest on loans.
 
OP, a handful of students in my class (including myself) smoke "socially." Personally, I prefer it to drinking myself into oblivion and it gives me something to do when we go out. I smoked every day in college, though I rarely smoke at all now (1 every couple months) and, even when I really want one, I usually can't because we're a tobacco-free campus. If I do indulge, it is at night when I know I am not going to be around people I wouldn't want to smell it on me. But then there was the time I was outside a bar smoking when a faculty member walked right into me...oops haha.

Despite my lack of judgement for your choices, I will add that it is definitely still adding to your risk of developing health problems (i'm not naive and you shouldn't be either). If you're willing to assume that risk, go for it, but do take into consideration those around you. This issue isn't exclusive to smoking. No one wants to smell BO, so we practice good hygiene regardless of whether or not your personal stench bothers you.
 
I have no problem smoking cigarettes as long as they are without additives, i.e. you couldn't pay me to smoke a camel or marlboro, and keep it to special occasions, which is what most drugs should be for (don't use smoking as a coping mechanism is what I'm saying). I'll be damned if I don't get to enjoy some of nature's pleasure. The hypocrisy here is insane, it's like we went too far to the left with our anti-smoking campaigns. Like I always say, learn to do drugs. The amount of people here who equate tobacco with cancer and death is incredibly entertaining. Absolute killers of joy, now that's the real cancer.
 
Back in the 70s & 80s high school teachers would smoke with their students during lunch time.

Crazy how times change.
 
Not a smoker myself, but I do find people who are hypersensitive to smokers to be a lot more insufferable than smokers.

Hospitals trying to hell employees what they should or shouldn’t do in their free time is f—- up. I do not want to work with a bunch of sterile drones. This comes from a guy who had insane diet and never soend more than a day without hitting up the gym throughout medical school.
 
Soft Fluffy Blanket said:
First, I'm sure you're not surprised by the responses by many users on here. I created this account so my other well established and respected account wouldn't be tarnished.

I'm surprised there are three people in your class who openly smoke, I know all medical schools classes have more than that who do smoke, but most do not smoke where others can see or smell it. Do you or the other two classmates smoke outside between classes or on your way to school? Is it males, females, or both that smoke?

Some of the comments above about smoking are inaccurate. I'm a 3rd year student who has smoked 2-4 packs per month since I was 20. Like you, I find smoking to be relaxing and enjoyable. None of my classmates, professors, or attending physicians know. I don't understand the whole "everyone who smokes stinks" mindset, it is easily possible to smoke a few cigarettes a day and not smell like smoke. I usually smoke once before I shower and then one or two at night outside. Nothing I own smells like smoke and no one has any idea that I smoke. No one has ever asked. Myth debunked.

I'm sorry you have been ostracized by fellow classmates and faculty, that isn't right. Especially faculty, they have no right to behave in that manner. I would consider this type of behavior bordering on harassment. Your decision to smoke is yours, you own it, and your primary care physician has the role to discuss this with you. If your school is like mine, half the faculty have a spare tire. I'll take the risks of smoking a few cigarettes a day over the risks associated with obesity any day.

I don't agree with employers rejecting people due to nicotine use, but entirely agree with them prohibiting employees from using or smelling like smoke during their shift. Maybe radiologists and pathologists can get away with it because they are not always involved in direct patient. If smoking is fair game for employment screening, so is obesity. This type of discrimination is a slippery slope.

There is nothing hypocritical about smoking and educating patients about the dangers. Educating patients about the realities of smoking is your job and has nothing to do with your own personal habits.
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just an FYI, one person having multiple accounts is against the TOS
 
The problem is that cigarettes are about as addicting as heroin.

I know people who have tried/done recreationally now and again heroin, cocaine, crack, meth, and cigs.

Much like opioid prescribing, the problem is that it is enormously difficult to predict who will be the person who can dabble and who will ultimately kill themselves with the drug. In the case of opioids, the only predictor is a personal or family history of addiction.

The next problem is that for the most part, and certainly if you are actually lighting up, is that it is extremely difficult for your smoking not to negatively impact others.

To this day, I am still triggered by seeing others smoke, even on TV, and the most when I smell it.

Also, buying cigarettes supports an industry that kills sooooo many of your patients.

Also, given all the negative consequences, the fact that you continue to smoke, is proof positive that you have a problem.

Keep in mind, that vaping often doesn't address the psychological components of the addiction to smoking.

Lastly, on the topic of obesity, no one mentioned that there are a significant number of the obese who suffered sexual abuse as children, and it appears that becoming and staying overweight is a subconscious coping mechanism for those people.. Read the ACE Adverse Childhood Events study if you're interested.

Adding more complexity to the obesity issue, are possible epigenetic changes in the eggs and embryos of overweight mothers.
 
Crayola227 said:
just an FYI, one person having multiple accounts is against the TOS
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That's not how it works.

The violation is when someone creates a second account and uses it for trolling, sockpuppetting, to misrepresent themselves etc. When someone does it for a reason such as this (related to a private matter they don't wish to share), it is acceptable.
 
Winged Scapula said:
That's not how it works.

The violation is when someone creates a second account and uses it for trolling, sockpuppetting, to misrepresent themselves etc. When someone does it for a reason such as this (related to a private matter they don't wish to share), it is acceptable.
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I stand corrected. Thank you, good to know.

Wasn't trying to overstep my bounds. Just tired of the things you mentioned.
 
Giovanotto said:
I have no problem smoking cigarettes as long as they are without additives, i.e. you couldn't pay me to smoke a camel or marlboro, and keep it to special occasions, which is what most drugs should be for (don't use smoking as a coping mechanism is what I'm saying). I'll be damned if I don't get to enjoy some of nature's pleasure. The hypocrisy here is insane, it's like we went too far to the left with our anti-smoking campaigns. Like I always say, learn to do drugs. The amount of people here who equate tobacco with cancer and death is incredibly entertaining. Absolute killers of joy, now that's the real cancer.
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What did I just read?
 
Mad Jack said:
Eh, I think such policies are kind of dystopian, so I'm not a fan, as if these prove effective, there will no doubt be other things in the future. Too fat? No job. Drink alcohol? Sorry. Don't exercise regularly? Your app goes right in the trash. It's really paving the way for a slippery slope. Of particular concern is that nicotine may provide benefits at certain doses or in certain individuals (ulcerative colitis comes to mind), and that there is no proven harm from nicotine itself, merely from smoking and chewing (both of which lead to substantial exposures to hundreds of non-nicotine chemicals). But hey, that's just the part of me that believes in freedom and evidence talking. In general, such policies are likely good for the health of communities.

Opinion | Can Nicotine Be Good for You?
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1000% concur, and that's from someone who thinks smoking is about as gross as it can get (I have a very strong sense of smell, and if a smoker is in the room too long, I get grossed out to the point of mild nausea.)
 
mehc012 said:
1000% concur, and that's from someone who thinks smoking is about as gross as it can get (I have a very strong sense of smell, and if a smoker is in the room too long, I get grossed out to the point of mild nausea.)
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Smoking is horrifically bad and hell, I'd be cool with banning it entirely. But if we're not going to ban it as a society, we shouldn't leave it to employers to draw that line. What line will they draw next?
 
Mad Jack said:
Smoking is horrifically bad and hell, I'd be cool with banning it entirely. But if we're not going to ban it as a society, we shouldn't leave it to employers to draw that line. What line will they draw next?
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Better not have a beer on your vacation :nono:
 
Don't do it. Your mortality risk is increased with smoking alone. In a given amount of time with a given amount of the general population, about 3 times as many smokers will die (hazard ratio 2.8). I'm just going to list off a bunch of complications: heart disease, aortic aneurysms, peripheral arterial disease, COPD, all lung cancers, pneumonia, tuberculosis, the flu, both types of esophageal cancer, pancreatic cancer, cancer of head and neck, renovascular disease, bladder cancer, erectile dysfunction.
 
151 others said:
What?
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Many people miss the heavy smoke, the "feel" of that smoke in their lungs, that they get from actually combusting the tobacco. Plus the way the end crinkles and burns with a drag, vapes don't simulate all of this.

I was a very ritualistic smoker, so a lot of the pleasure I got was from "packing" the pack, pulling the plastic string, tearing off the foil, smelling the "fresh" pack, dusting off the tobacco flakes, pulling a cig out, checking how well I packed it. Then lighting up, twirling it in my fingers to get an even light, the first few pulls getting the "cherry" started, then pulling drags, flicking ash. Definitely flicking ash. I liked taking the deep breath needed to pull it into my lungs, and then the long expiration to blow the smoke out. Maybe blowing some smoke rings.

One method I used for quitting was a type of fake plastic cigarette that has a pure menthol cartridge inside. It has an air intake you can adjust to affect how hard you have to inhale, simulating that part of smoking. The menthol is to give you the feeling that you've pulled something more than air into your lungs.

To this day I take that with me when I think I'll be especially tempted by tobacco and it lets me indulge in a little of the psychological with no risk of physical addiction.
 
I read an interesting study that showed cigarettes to people who had never smoked, those who smoked, and those who quit. Then they did brain imaging. It appeared that the quitter brain NEVER went entirely back to the "never smoker" brain regarding how the topic of cigarettes was processed. The quitter brain looked like something in between never-smoker and smoker. It seemed that the changes in the brain made by smoking didn't go all the way away but that there was some amount of "compensation" was happening so it functioned closer to the never-smoker brain.

Other studies found that this "compensation" is essentially undone like the minute you smoke again. It also appears that the nicotinic receptors in the brain remain increased on a permanent basis. This is less so when you quit but still there.

Basically, no joke, never smoke. It permanently changes your brain. And if you do, quit. And quit all the way. Never puff or dip again. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, figure out if you're really capable of "very light" "social" smoking, and if you're not, don't f*ck around.
 
Some doctors are overweight and still push weight loss regimen towards someone if their health is suffering, but they're worse. Some doctors drink soda. That's all bad. So when you give advice, aren't you being hypocritical?
 
Wow. Whole bunch of judgement on this thread. Good luck with smoking cessation counseling people. I bet OP is way better at it than you. Who is the patient going to listen to? Goodie two-shoes annoying med student, or the guy who actually understands why they smoke?

OP get a vape.
 
Why do we put doctors on pedestals? They suffer from the same issues everyone else suffers from, and I think its important that we are sympathetic to that. This kind of judgmental sentiment just pushes people into the closet about that which they are struggling with, be it addiction, some mental health ailment, or something else. THAT is toxic and hypocritical and it surely isn't conducive to individual growth or growth within the profession.

Do you and take care of yourself OP. If you want to quit, go for it, but do it for yourself. Smoking cigarettes isn't good for you, but it surely doesn't preclude you from being a wonderful person and clinician -- in fact it might help you relate with some of your patients.
 
When I'm sober I never have even the slighted desire to smoke. But for some reason early on in college I picked up the habit of smoking whenever I get drunk, and it's been virtually impossible to shake for 6 years now.

I only really drink more than a few beers a couple times a year (New Years, best friends birthdays, after a big exam)...but if I do the cigarettes are coming out.

Im always concerned one day I'll see someone important and it'll be a huge problem lol.
 
Turkishking said:
Some doctors are overweight and still push weight loss regimen towards someone if their health is suffering, but they're worse. Some doctors drink soda. That's all bad. So when you give advice, aren't you being hypocritical?
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If you're just counseling someone on the dangers/effects of a bad habit (like smoking, drinking soda, etc.), then I don't think it's hypocritical. You're just giving them information and letting them choose what to do with it.

If you're telling them they need to stop doing that and yet you're doing it yourself, then yes, you are being a hypocrite. That's my opinion, others may think differently. However, I've encountered many people who have said they didn't do something because their doctor also did it, so it must not really be that bad (mostly in regards to patient's weight).
 
Stagg737 said:
If you're just counseling someone on the dangers/effects of a bad habit (like smoking, drinking soda, etc.), then I don't think it's hypocritical. You're just giving them information and letting them choose what to do with it.

If you're telling them they need to stop doing that and yet you're doing it yourself, then yes, you are being a hypocrite. That's my opinion, others may think differently. However, I've encountered many people who have said they didn't do something because their doctor also did it, so it must not really be that bad (mostly in regards to patient's weight).
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Yeah I can say oh stop drinking soda.. But then I go home and chug a 2 liter...
 
It's times like this I am glad I'm an orthopod. I don't need to tell people to eat healthy or not smoke (well, except in the context of nonunion, but it's never stopped me from operating)... I just have to tell them, "please don't attempt a backflip off your truck while drunk again." Strangely enough, they often don't follow those directions, either. 🙂
 
OrthoTraumaMD said:
It's times like this I am glad I'm an orthopod. I don't need to tell people to eat healthy or not smoke (well, except in the context of nonunion, but it's never stopped me from operating)... I just have to tell them, "please don't attempt a backflip off your truck while drunk again." Strangely enough, they often don't follow those directions, either. 🙂
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Interesting! The ortho doc I do research with adamantly refuses to operate on anyone who uses any form of nicotine (including vapes, patches, gum, etc.).

That said he doesn't do much trauma so I guess the patient population is less urgent.
 
Turkishking said:
Yeah I can say oh stop drinking soda.. But then I go home and chug a 2 liter...
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True, but your patients can't necessarily tell that. Smoking is a lot more obvious to nonsmokers, unless you truly only do it evenings and weekends.
 
Do whatever you want. half of my med schoolmates don't smoke but end up doing hard drugs to either study or party. The hypocrisy is palpable. if you like smoking do it, just be aware of the consequences.

also, i also indulge in the occasional bougie, and i don't apologize to anyone about it.
 
mehc012 said:
True, but your patients can't necessarily tell that. Smoking is a lot more obvious to nonsmokers, unless you truly only do it evenings and weekends.
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Who cares it's still hypocrisy at the end of the day. But that's with everything.
 
Turkishking said:
Who cares it's still hypocrisy at the end of the day. But that's with everything.
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True, but it's not hypocrisy that the patient knows about. Which is the only bit you can point to as impacting whether they follow your advice or not, which is the only way that you can even remotely argue that a doctor's choices in his personal life impact patient care (and thus the only reason anyone should even consider mandating them, and even then I think it's BS).

I was basically playing devil's advocate to my own point.
 
mehc012 said:
True, but it's not hypocrisy that the patient knows about. Which is the only bit you can point to as impacting whether they follow your advice or not, which is the only way that you can even remotely argue that a doctor's choices in his personal life impact patient care (and thus the only reason anyone should even consider mandating them, and even then I think it's BS).

I was basically playing devil's advocate to my own point.
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Agreed
 
I think the main thing is establishing credibility. If you tell your patients to not smoke because it is bad for them, but they find out you smoke, they may have trouble trusting your overall judgement or direction.

My best friend is a chef. He always spends his days preparing luxurious 5-course meals, then picks up McDonalds on the way home for dinner. I get the whole "practice what you preach" thing, and I get that sometimes it's harder said than done. I think at the end of the day, although it may make you happy, just be sure to think of what your how your patients would perceive it.
 
medicine is a calling like being a priest, as far as I'm concerned I took a vow, and that means I'm on call 24/7 to my calling.

You expect a priest not to be ****ing in violation of his vows, to be ready to talk about Jesus whenever, because it's his passion and what he believes

I learned long ago as a result of the vocation I took on, that behavior that was OK for me in undergrad (Lords don't get me started) was no longer OK for me. This was part of my humanistic courses in med school.

I was the type of person to go out on my porch or up to the mailbox in my underwear (no really, underwear.... my city allows all sorts of nudity not allowed elsewhere). Now, I sorta need to think about who's seen me prancing around in my undies like a ****ing weirdo.

Testing positive even for something like marijuana.... not going to go down well with worker's comp. That's how you end up HIV pos from a needlestick on the job, yet no coverage. Real horror stories. Never mind what all the other drugs can do to your career.

It came up, if you practice medicine in a small town, you will run into patients at the grocery store. Right or wrong, they'll notice what's in your cart. NOGAF if you have a 2 liter of pop in there, but if you're overweight like a lot of docs are, if you don't have some gorram produce in there.... is it any wonder your patients don't take you seriously?

I have ran into patients in the grocery store, and struck up a discussion on nutrition. People ask me about nutrition and smoking all the time outside of work.

I became a doctor so I could be a particular type of goody-goody. I was willing to put things from my partying wild child hobo past, in service to something greater than myself. That something I picked was health.
 
You don't relate better to your patients by engaging in self destructive behavior, smoking cigarettes, and doing drugs.

I relate better to my patients who smoke not because I smoke, but because I quit.

You relate better AND are more of an actual help to them when you learn to cope in healthy ways, not by being unhealthy.

Yes, we are people, no we aren't perfect, but I would hope by taking the oath that health is more than a job to you, it's something you want to achieve out of a good heart, and it's something you want to give yourself.
 
As far as hypocrisy, yes, we all have our vices.

Do you know how I dealt with the hypocrisy of smoking when I was practicing?

If the topic that I smoked came up, and it would sometimes, I would say something like, "Yeah, so I know just how hard it is. I relapsed when my parent died. But before that, I was quit 5 years. It's never too late to climb back up on that wagon. I did it once, I can do it again. Everyone should." or "I absolutely hate it. Every time I smoke I just see all the horrific ways to die from smoking. It's hard, but I've got to quit." or "I know I'm Dr. Hypocrite here, so I can tell you right now I don't judge you or think less of you, I'm guilty of it myself, and I get how hard this is. But it's true for both of us: we need to quit."

The issue isn't that doctors will be hypocrites. The issue is, do you have to be more than a hypocrite in just action? Must you be one in voice, as well? Not, how do you defend being an overweight doctor who drinks 8 oz of soda twice a week, and exercises and eats a moderate diet, how do you defend being any type of doctor that isn't acting healthy?

I would always say to my patients that I understood how hard it was to act healthily. I wasn't exactly eating a good diet and getting exercise and sleep in residency. I might even acknowledge that, but it doesn't change what I state as reality. Reality is, a lot of health problems are dealt with as I said.

People don't mind that you're human. No one likes bullshyte. That's what I'm reacting viscerally to in this thread.

If we can just acknowledge reality - daily smoking isn't healthy, there are a lot more reasons to quit than to smoke, it makes the world a better place, doctors should care about the world being a healthier place, and that unfair or no, doctors are role models. Like everyone we will often fall short of optimal health, but our own embarrassment, denial, bias, shouldn't prevent us from speaking honestly and correctly about health.

It's not just about doctors vs patients. Doctors are patients too. I want everyone to quit smoking, because by God I was put on this planet to make people better.
 
I will say too, though, that the way I talk to another doctor about their own health is not always what I would say to a patient.

I file this under: we just treat each other differently and have different expectations. The gloves come off boys and girls.

Some of it is an annoyance, this is some Health 101 you should have come into med school with.

It isn't so much the fact of y'all smoking, but rather, claiming that the fact you smoke "isn't that bad," should be like a USMLE question insta-fail.

Don't have 2 L of Mountain Dew for breakfast and then tell me it's the breakfast of champions. I will eat you for breakfast.
 
Kisangani said:
As the title suggests, are there any other smokers out there in medical school? I am literally one of only three people at my school who smoke and have been ostracized by my fellow classmates and faculty many times since I started my first year. While I am by no means a chain smoker, I have smoked 3-4 cigarettes every day since I was 14. Despite what we may be taught in class, I personally do not believe that smoking cigarettes in moderation is bad for you (just like doing anything without excess usually isn't). However, I have been told numerous times that I will look like a hypocrite in the future and that smoking as a physician has been inappropriate since the 1970s. While I did not grow up in the United States, in my home country most doctors smoke (as do most people who can afford to buy cigarettes). On the one hand I want to look professional and not be judged negatively by my peers, while at the same time, smoking is something I really enjoy and see no other good reason to give it up. To any other smokers, has your habit ever had any negative consequences on your career (in terms of relationships with colleagues, patients, etc)?
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Do people really ostracize you because you smoke? I know plenty of people who smoke and generally no one seems to care.
 
Pocket Rockets said:
Do people really ostracize you because you smoke? I know plenty of people who smoke and generally no one seems to care.
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I've seen mostly a lot of self-ostracization among my classmates who smoke. It's a giant secret (not a well kept one, usually...at least for me, I can smell smoke on someone from across a table, certainly if they sit near me in lecture) and they sneak off to smoke, sneak back, don't give people rides if they smoke in their car and it reeks, etc.
 
CollegeSoze said:
Can we exercise some rationality?

Smoking does not equate to death and cancer, but it does up your risk. Many smoke their entire lives without major health effects, while some smokers die at 55 of a cause directly related to their smoking. How much you smoke, your genetic predisposition to certain cancers, along with when you quit, is actually a much bigger deal than people seem to think.

And people need to get a grip on the whole second hand smoke thing. Parents smoking in the home & car with small children? Yeah, that's second hand smoke, and it's a problem. Someone smelling and possibly partially being exposed to a small cloud of cig smoke (gasp!) on their one night out per year? Grow up.

The whole "smell" thing is definitely a big deal, but do you know how easy it is for someone to avoid? You really think that someone enjoying a cigarette on their patio with their morning coffee, before showering, brushing their teeth, and changing into their clothes is going to smell? Nah.

I used to bartend in undergrad, and as a consequence of that industry, bad vices were hard to avoid. I never smoked a ton, but it was something I'd do once in a while. Smoked a heater or two on nights out in college. Stopped smoking in med school. Wasn't too hard for me. However in fall of M1, some particularly traumatic personal stuff went down in my life. I was going through a very bad time and I started smoking more than ever. I had been smoking in my apartment, maybe 10 cigarettes a day for two weeks. My girlfriend is one of the hyper acute noses, who does that dramatic cough when she smells smoke. Disgusts and repulses her. The day before she came, I opened my windows, lit a candle, did a quick clean, and she didn't smell a single thing. And some of you guys think that you can smell smoke on someone who smokes a cigarette or 3 per day outside, and exercises proper hygiene? You can't.

My view is this: No one should ever smell smoke on you in a hospital or clinic. If you wake up, read the news (or Twitter), drink your columbian dark roast, and enjoy a Marlboro in the morning before you shower, get dressed and brush your teeth - no one should have the right to deny you freedoms and joys in life. If someone can smell smoke on you in the hospital, it's a problem. If you counsel a patient on quitting and you smoke two cigarettes at home each night? No problem. If you tell a patient to quit and they see you outside burning one 20 minutes later? Problem.

There is a reason people smoke. Smoking sparks brain synapses. It's a very mild stimulant. Some like the taste. And it's a vice that you can partake in while also functioning at a high level. As long as someone knows the consequences, they have a right to smoke. It absolutely does not mean they should, but it is their right. And if they can get away with it without anyone in the hospital ever knowing aside from a pee test, it's not fair to ruin someones career over it.

A year ago I was out in a different town for a friend's birthday. Had a few drinks in me. Somehow started BSing with a vascular surgeon attending. He was with three other docs. One ortho, another vascular, and an anesthesiologist. He bought me a drink. We talked and shared a few laughs. We all went out and had a cigarette together. They're all still alive and employed to my knowledge. They trained for years, they're intelligent human beings, they practice medicine, they all seemed in shape, and they're also human. Crazy, huh.

Don't ever act like smoking the occasional social cigarette (if one can keep it that way) is a horrible nasty dangerous vice, if you partake in other vices yourself.

And if someone does choose to smoke pack after pack til they die, at least they'll have died with style. As Kurt Vonnegut once said, "smoking is the only honorable form of suicide".
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OK, so we found your soapbox, but...who on earth are you responding to? You're arguing with a group of people who...haven't said any of the things you're freaking out over.
 
Winged Scapula said:
That's not how it works.

The violation is when someone creates a second account and uses it for trolling, sockpuppetting, to misrepresent themselves etc. When someone does it for a reason such as this (related to a private matter they don't wish to share), it is acceptable.
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Oh, does that mean we could create throwaway accounts to ask questions more anonymously, including controversial ones? I was under the impression that was forbidden, but I guess most posters I've seen who mention multiple accounts have been trolls.
 
Grrr never mind. I'm outta here.
 
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