Does each pharmacy grad deserve or entitle a job offer

[ornithoptor]

I am interested to see what is your view based on your age or generation.

I feel a lot members on this forum seem to think: Unlike other majors, we should all have jobs waiting because we paid 200K in tuition and four years in school.

Are pharmacy students “Entitled” to receive at least one job offer upon graduation?

What is your age or generation(baby boomer, gen X, millennials)
What is your view and argument.

200k tuition is not necessary a strong argument, let us come up with something else.


Sent from my iPad using SDN

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I am interested to see what is your view based on your age or generation.

I feel a lot members on this forum seem to think: Unlike other majors, we should all have jobs waiting because we paid 200K in tuition and four years in school.

Are pharmacy students “Entitled” to receive at least one job offer upon graduation?

What is your age or generation(baby boomer, gen X, millennials)
What is your view and argument.

200k tuition is not necessary a strong argument, let us come up with something else.
Sent from my iPad using SDN

I would say that graduates of US Pharm.D. programs that are actually fluent in English should be able to find a job.

 

[PharmtoCS]

We are not entitled to anything just by having a doctorate and $200k+ in loans.

My point though is that pharmacy a poor return on investment if you compare it to other professions which you only need a bachelors or less and can earn as much as a pharmacist can if not more.

 

[lord999]

Millennial, children of immigrants, child and grandchild of pharmacists, first job at 10 at Hickman Farms (I very much appreciate good chicken and eggs to this day). I have been both an employee and employer.

No one (not pharmacist nor Nobel Peace Prize winner) is entitled to involuntary offers from any particular employer with the protection that that person can never be forced to be employed for a particular employer.

That's why I am deeply anti-conscription, because you are compelled against your will to work for a particular employer, and anyone who we forced to work for those circumstances, I believe does have an entitlement to employment. So in the case of the German Wehrpflicht , the conscription for National Service, I believe the German Government is obligated to readjust those back into life including gainful employment due to not having agency over their work or circumstances.

But in the US case where employment is a free association, you are free to only compete for employment. This is freedom, but it is a double edged sword. That does mean that if you're not qualified to work by convincing someone, you don't work regardless of conditions.

 

[Idk17]

Why would anyone be entitled to a job? There are about 0 valid arguments in favor of that.

Nobody is entitled to a job and nobody is entitled to have somebody else (i.e. taxpayers) foot the bill for their student loans, either.

I'm a millennial.

 

[alpha12]

Nobody is entitled to a job but nobody should be scammed either. Pharmacy is becoming a scam akin to trump university. I believe candidates are being given unrealistic job prospects by the schools because they don't want to lose revenue. I am a millienial.

 

[BC_89]

Millennial: The closest argument I can honestly believe to be valid is an entitlement to an interview on a case by case basis, but definitely no geared entitlement to a job.

For example, our veterans defined as wounded-warriors who have met the same educational criteria as other applicants should be entitled to an interview for an open position with any and/or all government jobs.

Citizens from poor - rural counties / state districts ( ie Yakitat Alaska) that wish to return to their own regions or other less than ideal rural job locations should be entitled to an interview.

Notice my entitlements stem from interview opportunities, not guaranteed jobs.

 

[zelman]

I am interested to see what is your view based on your age or generation.

I feel a lot members on this forum seem to think: Unlike other majors, we should all have jobs waiting because we paid 200K in tuition and four years in school.

Are pharmacy students “Entitled” to receive at least one job offer upon graduation?

What is your age or generation(baby boomer, gen X, millennials)
What is your view and argument.

200k tuition is not necessary a strong argument, let us come up with something else.


Sent from my iPad using SDN

The entity that guarantees a job offer should make one if the graduate has none. In many cases, that is their school of pharmacy. They will say anything to get tuition and are never held accountable for their lies.

 

[Rxed 1996]

No. But we pay too much for education, regardless of major.

-Millennial

 

[allantois]

Nobody is entitled for a job, but nobody goes to professional school only to struggle to find employment.

 

[owlegrad]

What an odd straw man. The answer is no.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[ornithoptor]

For too long, posts on the forum has led me to believe that many do think job is entitled upon graduation with 200k tuition. Hopefully this clarify the issue.

Answers are overwhelmingly “NO”.
Pharmacy school graduates are not entitled to jobs.
However, many did answer with caveats.
Something to think about.


Sent from my iPad using SDN

 

[sozetone]

Yeah your absolutely entitled to a job. It's in Alaska, Part time floater, around 45$ an hour. Youll get around 28 hours a week. You'll live in a small dank cabin in the middle of a town nobody has ever heard of. Totally cut off from the world. You will drive 2 hours for groceries through some of the toughest terrain you can drive in, risking life and limb. Maybe all new grads should be FORCED to take these jobs and the more experienced pharmacists get placed into champion stores in great neighborhoods in booming cities? I feel I am entitled to that! Although I have actually worked for it.

 

[mentos]

Nobody deserves anything, it is a privilege to live in America. If you were born in a third world country you'd have no food, no water, slave away in a factory or mine, you could lose a limb and no one would care.

 

[TranslationalRPh]

Nobody is entitled to a job.

-Xennial

 

[beautifulrobot]

No one is entitled to a job per se, but everyone is entitled to a safety net and/or the means to preserve life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[bacillus1]

Nobody should be entitled to a job--however, in the US, our life literally depends on having a job, due to employer-based health care, as well as student loans. Not having a pharmacy job might be OK if healthcare is given and education becomes less costly.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

What an odd straw man. The answer is no.
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I wonder how they'd feel if someone made a thread saying people with poor English literacy don't deserve to work as healthcare professionals and are, in fact, a danger to patients

 

[owlegrad]

I wonder how they'd feel if someone made a thread saying people with poor English literacy don't deserve to work as healthcare professionals and are, in fact, a danger to patients

I wonder how they’d feel if someone started a thread asking if it’s reasonable to expect people to make decisions based on expected return on investment.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[beautifulrobot]

 

[nafcillin]

Very good discussion. I am a millennial and feel that if I invest that amount of money and time, there should be at least be decent career prospects in my area. A lot of us went into pharmacy because it’s an interesting field and also the job security that existed 10-15 years ago.

 

[ornithoptor]

I wonder how they'd feel if someone made a thread saying people with poor English literacy don't deserve to work as healthcare professionals and are, in fact, a danger to patients

I was in Southern California the last month. If English language is the being used as benchmarks, 75% of people I run into would have problems keeping their jobs, including some of really great doctors.

That said, I know someone personally with 4.0 GPA from top pharmacy school with BS in IT who did not match residency slot in our hospital because inpatient manager refuse to work them due to their broken English.


Sent from my iPad using SDN

 

[JamesL1585]

I am interested to see what is your view based on your age or generation.

I feel a lot members on this forum seem to think: Unlike other majors, we should all have jobs waiting because we paid 200K in tuition and four years in school.

Are pharmacy students “Entitled” to receive at least one job offer upon graduation?

What is your age or generation(baby boomer, gen X, millennials)
What is your view and argument.

200k tuition is not necessary a strong argument, let us come up with something else.


Sent from my iPad using SDN

I'm going to add this to my next version of why SDN Pharmacist stink - first off to the OP @ornithoptor Let's take your model and scale it as if that is the genuine consensus across the country. Since you ask the question, it is reasonable to think that you don't believe people should be entitled to a job.

ALSO PEOPLE WHO THINK PEOPLE ARE NOT ENTITLED TO A JOB. THIS IS WHY EXECUTIVES FROM SCAMMY UNIVERSITIES ARE PUT IN PRISON AND STUDENTS ARE REFUNDED THEIR MONEY (LINK TO CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT AND TUITION REFUND FROM SCAMMY UNIVERSITIES HERE) - BECAUSE THEIR STUDENTS WEREN'T ABLE TO FIND EMPLOYMENT - AND THIS IS BAD IN THE EYES OF PUBLIC POLICY!

So if in America we said "people are NOT entitled to a job" that means that some of these people are out of the labor force. Okay, then you ask yourself what happens when people are either unemployed, or underemployed - This in mass amounts is the definition of an INEFFICIENT ECONOMY. Literally not even someone as ignorant as Donald Trump would agree with you. Underemployment, Unemployment leads to = Crime, less educated population, less efficient economy, increased use of social welfare, and divestment into an economy. You saying this, and scaling your sentiment would literally make you a worse politician than <insert any name of a terrible politician here>. What you're suggesting LITERALLY promotes inequality and an inefficient, unsustainable economy. Incentives keep markets going. This is how you got into a pharmacist shortage in the first place, and how you can promote more shortages.

@Idk17

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

GenX - Starting school in a few months.

My personal viewpoint is that no one is entitled to anything but an interview - and a fair one at that. I think that with any job market, you put the work in to get qualified for the job, and then you have to earn the job (qualifications, interview skills, flexibility, willingness to work, etc...)

I believe in hard work, putting your time in, and working your way up, too.

Years ago, when pharmacists were in-demand and in short supply, I'm sure lots of graduates were getting their diploma and receiving possibly multiple job offers. But with a plethora of pharmacy schools and students, graduates have to work harder AND smarter to get the pharmacist jobs.

My 2 cents.

 

[Chrish]

May the best man/ woman win..

 

[sakigt]

Millenial

I think federal student loans to a reasonable limit should be interest free. Or how about this, once you graduate and make payments the interest stops compounding as long as you make payments.

Congress is making $$$ off me going to school to get a decent education. I had no undergrad debt. I had 2.0 kids to repopulate the earth with. What gives? Help a lady out. $1500 a month in daycare for 3 years and $800 since then + $300 aftercare for the oldest is like uuuuuggggh

 

[Rouelle]

Does everyone with a Russian Literature degree deserve a job in their field? Does everyone with an Oboe Performance degree deserve a job in their field? Does everyone with a Women’s Studies degree deserve a job in their field? People deserve to be able to pursue happiness. This does not mean that one deserves an offer just for earning a degree.

Generation X

 

[ornithoptor]

I see that more people have chimed in on this topic.

No one should be judgmental, because there is no wrong answers here. There is no need to form opinions or drawing conclusion about others. Our views are part of us, and we are shaped by our values.

We all make our decisions (career, marriage, life) based on risk and reward; investment of time, money and benefits they carry.

I simply asked the reasoning of your view, one way or another. I am more interested in a philosophical discussion. I am pleased to see role of government, society...... are part of the discussion.

Please continue the dialogues about the things we care, and free exchange of ideas without being condescending toward one another.



Sent from my iPad using SDN

 

[PharmtoCS]

Should someone with a doctorate with tons of debt be paid more and have more job security? In a fair world yes, but that is not how the market works.

Nobody is forced to hand you a cushy $120k/year job simply by you having a PharmD and license just as no one is forcing prospective students to take out $200k+ in loans and sacrifice 4 years of their lives for a job that pays a market rate of $80k/year with terrible work conditions and high unemployment/underemployment. In fact, incoming students have had more than enough warnings about saturation starting in 2010; it is their own choice and responsibility if they decide to roll the dice despite the risks.

 

[RxPreceptor]

No entitlement/automatic position. Demand is just not what it use to be in the golden ages where one could move state to state without worry of finding a full time position (was ideal if spouse's profession was more sensitive to economic decline, travel, relocation, etc. as in my parents' case). I think a lot of young people just have the wrong impression & expectations of the current job market or fail to acknowledge the constantly changing & usually declining work conditions; if anything, I find myself talking people out of the profession & help him/her recognize the illusion/thoughts of grandeur about the profession

I'll use the term Xennial (borderline millennial/Gen X because I hate the typical (stereotypes) characteristics of your average millennial (consider myself outcast/can not identify with millenials or have much in common)...raised by the greatest generation (>>>> Baby boomers)...great work ethic, never complain, actions over words, "doers", grateful for opportunity of America, make things happen with what little to nothing they've got, etc.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Nobody deserves anything, it is a privilege to live in America. If you were born in a third world country you'd have no food, no water, slave away in a factory or mine, you could lose a limb and no one would care.

The "third world" is no where as bad as you make it out to sound. Most people working in factories and mines do so out of choice to prove their masculinity or to buy extra nice things for their family. I remember specifically men collecting sulfur clumps from volcanoes in Indonesia. When asked why the guy did such dangerous work he said he wanted to buy a NEW, specially coated frying pan for his wife and child. Rice and water are cheap no matter what country you are from.

That being said, it is a PRIVILEGE to be born into this universe and certainly a privilege to be given a job earning 100k+ a year. I don't really consider it a privilege to be born in America, a country with the highest relative and absolute incarceration rate, the highest rates of obesity and anti depression medication use in the world relative to other countries that are less neurotic.

I certainly have not had financial, romantic, social, or mental success here in the US. I feel completely isolated from society most days. I have anxiety about interacting with others and when I think of my future I feel extremely depressed.

 

[puahate]

No one is entitled to a job but a PharmD lowers your chance in getting any decent job. The fact that this is even a discussion here is telling.

 

[projektreverb]

Why is anyone entitled to something because they got a degree? Are Art History majors entitled to jobs too????

 

[Macaronique11]

Yeah your absolutely entitled to a job. It's in Alaska, Part time floater, around 45$ an hour. Youll get around 28 hours a week. You'll live in a small dank cabin in the middle of a town nobody has ever heard of. Totally cut off from the world. You will drive 2 hours for groceries through some of the toughest terrain you can drive in, risking life and limb. Maybe all new grads should be FORCED to take these jobs and the more experienced pharmacists get placed into champion stores in great neighborhoods in booming cities? I feel I am entitled to that! Although I have actually worked for it.

If I wasn't a veteran I'd swear I would not go to pharmacy school based on sotezone and probably slit my wrists since I have devoted so much time to getting into a frivolous endeavor!!!!!!! His comments are brutal!!!!

 

[sozetone]

If I wasn't a veteran I'd swear I would not go to pharmacy school based on sotezone and probably slit my wrists since I have devoted so much time to getting into a frivolous endeavor!!!!!!! His comments are brutal!!!!

Hey man, i'm just trying to open your eyes, but im getting tired. It's not my problem anymore. I'm done hassling the newbies, ok? You guys can sort out this mess for yourselves. Best of luck.

 

[BC_89]

If I wasn't a veteran I'd swear I would not go to pharmacy school based on sotezone and probably slit my wrists since I have devoted so much time to getting into a frivolous endeavor!!!!!!! His comments are brutal!!!!

Based on this topic discussion, If your a military veteran (and collecting a pension with healthcare benefits as a plus) you have benefits that other users on here are not entitled to have: I’ll list the benefits for other users to follow:

1) Post 9/11 GI Bill (tuition 100% paid plus $1,000 annual book stipend as well as tax free housing allowance in your account monthly)

2) Priority applicant for VA interview slots serving fellow veterans (buy back your time in service for a higher PTO and higher pension pay out if not already accepting a retirement military portfolio).

3) cheaper overall health coverage with primary health insurance through employer and using tricare as your secondary supplement (I personally love this).

4) if also a disabled veteran (like myself) you go from a priority interview applicant to a top priority applicant once your licensed.

Your entitled to fed gov Pharmacy job interviews that other civilians are not. Doubly so if your willing to work in rural underserved districts. Don’t let these big-bad-wolves scare you. Jobs are tight but based on your coverage and long-term opportunity gains, you’ll get the better advantages not allotted to others on here

 

[Macaronique11]

Based on this topic discussion, If your a military veteran (and collecting a pension with healthcare benefits as a plus) you have benefits that other users on here are not entitled to have: I’ll list the benefits for other users to follow:

1) Post 9/11 GI Bill (tuition 100% paid plus $1,000 annual book stipend as well as tax free housing allowance in your account monthly)

2) Priority applicant for VA interview slots serving fellow veterans (buy back your time in service for a higher PTO and higher pension pay out if not already accepting a retirement military portfolio).

3) cheaper overall health coverage with primary health insurance through employer and using tricare as your secondary supplement (I personally love this).

4) if also a disabled veteran (like myself) you go from a priority interview applicant to a top priority applicant once your licensed.

Your entitled to fed gov Pharmacy job interviews that other civilians are not. Doublely so if your willing to work in rural underserved districts. Don’t let these big-bad-wolves scare you. Jobs are tight but based on your coverage and long-term opportunity gains, you’ll get the better advantages not allotted to others on here

Yeah I'm actually using a program called the Hazelwood Act. Its only for Texas Veterans. Provides 150 free hours. I declined GI bill and used loan repayment. Also I think I have a percentage coming (crossing fingers) if not a 5pt preference should help me out tremendously. Like I said if it weren't for these, I would have enrolled in a post-bac like quick fast yesterday and spent the extra years and hard work to go to medical school. He is brutal!

 

[BC_89]

Yeah I'm actually using a program called the Hazelwood Act. Its only for Texas Veterans. Provides 150 free hours. I declined GI bill and used loan repayment. Also I think I have a percentage coming (crossing fingers) if not a 5pt preference should help me out tremendously. Like I said if it weren't for these, I would have enrolled in a post-bac like quick fast yesterday and spent the extra years and hard work to go to medical school. He is brutal!

Good for you! I tried to get hazelwood. Being stationed in TX while changing residency isn’t the same as enlisting as a resident (sigh).

Some here are bitter due to limited offsets of debt to a tight market. Your case is different. If anything, my outside pension coupled with even part time work will be more than enough to allow me to Persue hobbies with my kids. Entitlements as a vet are more than worth it!