Does having a huge medical center in the city put a medical school (like SHSU) at an advantage?

[BlueScar]

Does having a huge medical center in the city put a medical school (like SHSU) at an advantage?

I'm planning on going to SHSU. I also want to keep my options open as far as competitive residencies are concerned. Since this school is just north of one of the largest medical centers in the world, would finding research opportunities compensate for being in a new DO program?

I absolutely love SHSU, but I also have a seat in one of the original 5 DO schools as well.

If anyone can help, I'd be grateful!

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[Butters Stotch]

I can help. I am very familiar with the area and I can tell you that SHSU is 45 minutes from the medical center near downtown and that’s not including Houston traffic which is abysmal. Although I would say with Covid research has gone online(?) so you could do it remotely if you reach out as there are plenty of opportunities. I declined going there just because of the newness of the school and I wouldn’t know what I was going in to. However you’re best bet is to go to a school in a big city so you can find research/network. Feel free to dm if you have any other questions

 

[RapidEyeMovementLearning]

In terms of residency, a DO student is looked at the same no matter the school. It's up to the student to perform exceptionally and make opportunities for themself.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

In terms of residency, a DO student is looked at the same no matter the school. It's up to the student to perform exceptionally and make opportunities for themself.

DO students from new schools are at even more a disadvantage usually. Unless you kill boards and/or your networking skills are on point.

 

[Spectreman]

The real question is does the school do core rotations through said hospital? Nova does rotations at Sinai in Miami and a few other big hospitals so naturally they match students at these places. We don’t have core rotations through Jackson Memorial (Uni of Miami) so nobody ever matches there.

 

[BlueScar]

The real question is does the school do core rotations through said hospital? Nova does rotations at Sinai in Miami and a few other big hospitals so naturally they match students at these places. We don’t have core rotations through Jackson Memorial (Uni of Miami) so nobody ever matches there.

They don't have any through Houston to my surprise.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Unless your school is affiliated with said medical center then no. More likely that medical center will want nothing to do with the students from the crappy, brand new DO school in town. That’s just the brutal truth.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Does having a huge medical center in the city put a medical school (like SHSU) at an advantage?

I'm planning on going to SHSU. I also want to keep my options open as far as competitive residencies are concerned. Since this school is just north of one of the largest medical centers in the world, would finding research opportunities compensate for being in a new DO program?

I absolutely love SHSU, but I also have a seat in one of the original 5 DO schools as well.

If anyone can help, I'd be grateful!

Don’t know anything about SHSU tbh. But most new schools don’t have a clue what they’re doing until they’ve graduated like 5 classes. Unless you’ve already got connections to help get yourself going on building an app for a competitive specialty; your school isn’t going to help you at all.

The original 5 are a bit hyped up on these fora. They don’t come with tons of amazing connections/opportunities either. But they at least have an idea on how to train future physicians. At a new school, you’re future will be decided by whoever they happened to find to do the job nearby for cheap. If they need to spend money to improve, they’ll do that later when 30% of your class doesn’t match.

I absolutely loved a new school when I was in your shoes and I’m so glad I turned it down to attend an original 5 as well.

 

[BlueScar]

Does being a TMDSAS school help at all?

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Does being a TMDSAS school help at all?

No.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Does being a TMDSAS school help at all?

That's just an application software nothing more. TMDSAS won't put you in residency, your school will.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Don’t know anything about SHSU tbh. But most new schools don’t have a clue what they’re doing until they’ve graduated like 5 classes. Unless you’ve already got connections to help get yourself going on building an app for a competitive specialty; your school isn’t going to help you at all.

The original 5 are a bit hyped up on these fora. They don’t come with tons of amazing connections/opportunities either. But they at least have an idea on how to train future physicians. At a new school, you’re future will be decided by whoever they happened to find to do the job nearby for cheap. If they need to spend money to improve, they’ll do that later when 30% of your class doesn’t match.

I absolutely loved a new school when I was in your shoes and I’m so glad I turned it down to attend an original 5 as well.

I agree. The original 5 do have regional reputations and this is where the new schools come up short as none of their students have rotated at bigger centers. Philly has 4 big med schools, in addition to PCOM, and their students have done residencies and are faculty at all of them.

 

[zealously]

SHSU has little, if any, connection to the Texas Medical Center. It is already pretty saturated by BCM/UTH/TAMU students.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I know little about SHSU and thought it was a state school, why is the tuition so outrageous compared to TCOM, the other state osteopathic school?

With tuition being what it is, you probably should consider one of the original 5 schools more seriously. They have a track record, for better or worse, and a large alumni base. Can you find research on your own at Texas medical center? Probably. But it would have nothing to do with SHSU.

 

[BlueScar]

Thank you all for the input. I'm deciding on KCUMB.

One thing that I found most shocking was the fact that SHSU is next to one of the world's largest medical centers, and yet NONE of its rotation sites are in Houston.

 

[Neopolymath]

Thank you all for the input. I'm deciding on KCUMB.

One thing that I found most shocking was the fact that SHSU is next to one of the world's largest medical centers, and yet NONE of its rotation sites are in Houston.

This is typical for DO schools.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Thank you all for the input. I'm deciding on KCUMB.

One thing that I found most shocking was the fact that SHSU is next to one of the world's largest medical centers, and yet NONE of its rotation sites are in Houston.

World class institutions want nothing to do with osteopaths.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

World class institutions want nothing to do with osteopaths.

Untrue. Most world class institutions have DOs on staff. Mayo Rochester and Cleveland Clinic are two that come to mind.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

World class institutions want nothing to do with osteopaths.

Except, we're not osteopaths. To be fair, there are plenty of DOs at big name institutions across the U.S.

 

[BlueScar]

World class institutions want nothing to do with osteopaths.

Noted. But can I still attend a DO school if my Texan MDs don't want my nontrad/ reinvented booty?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Noted. But can I still attend a DO school if my Texan MDs don't want my nontrad/ reinvented booty?

KCU will get you where you want to be. Despite all the negatives about DOs, once you're in residency no one really cares. And once you're a licensed physician, you can work wherever you want.

 

[Butters Stotch]

World class institutions want nothing to do with osteopaths.

This is completely untrue. The #1 clinic for vascular and ct surgery is in that medical center and they just matched a DO from KCU

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Lol y’all can’t recognize a tongue in cheek comment.

But for real though OP was talking about medical school rotations. I don’t know a single osteopathic medical school that does core rotations at a world class academic institution, let alone a brand new one. A tiny number of Campbell’s students rotate at Wake Med, likely the closest thing.

I don’t give two rips about DOs being on staff at Mayo or the UTH Vascular match because that’s not what we are talking about. We are talking about why SHSU does not have rotations at TMC.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Lol y’all can’t recognize a tongue in cheek comment.

But for real though OP was talking about medical school rotations. I don’t know a single osteopathic medical school that does core rotations at a world class academic institution, let alone a brand new one. A tiny number of Campbell’s students rotate at Wake Med, likely the closest thing.

I don’t give two rips about DOs being on staff at Mayo or the UTH Vascular match because that’s not what we are talking about. We are talking about why SHSU does not have rotations at TMC.

As @Goro s fond of saying , humor and sarcasm often don't travel well over the electrons. Do's aren't the only ones that don't have core rotations at world class academic institution. All med schools , MD and DO aren't world class institutions. Their hospitals aren't world class.
Drexel would be an example. Most MD students spend lots, if not the majority of their time at University Affiliates.
For sure, students at new schools are at a disadvantage with respect to rotation sites and regional school reputation. This is why I discourage students from attending them until they have graduated 4 or 5 classes. This of course if no other options exist.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Thank you all for the input. I'm deciding on KCUMB.

One thing that I found most shocking was the fact that SHSU is next to one of the world's largest medical centers, and yet NONE of its rotation sites are in Houston.

KCUMB is great. Im a big fan. Though as with all DO schools 90% of it is on you. Though I kinda got shafted on core site placement for rotations....

 

[Ho0v-man]

Go to KCU. You could attend there and literally have alumni in any field to connect with. Heck, you could probably not talk to anyone the entire time in KC and network solely through sdn since that school is so overly represented on here lol.

I could see turning down KCOM because of location and CCOM because of absurd tuition. But turning down the other 3 is probably dumb unless you really have some specific reason to be where that school is. But even then keep in mind you’ll probably be forced to go hours away from the school for rotations after second year if it’s like most schools.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

I could see turning down KCOM because of location and CCOM because of absurd tuition. But turning down the other 3 is probably dumb unless you really have some specific reason to be where that school is. But even then keep in mind you’ll probably be forced to go hours away from the school for rotations after second year if it’s like most schools.

If you got into the Oklahoma school though, Ive heard
fantastic things about them

 

[Ho0v-man]

If you got into the Oklahoma school though, Ive heard
fantastic things about them

Oh yeah I was just talking “old 5”. OSU, TCOM, and MSU are just MD schools that happen to award a DO degree lol.

 

[Osminog]

Many DO schools, including many established ones, have rotation sites that wouldn’t be deemed acceptable by MD accrediting bodies. Even if a DO school does have an official affiliation with a local major hospital, that doesn’t mean that all (or even most) of its students will get a chance to rotate there. Subpar clinical rotations are a major downside of DO education.

 

[calivianya]

Many DO schools, including many established ones, have rotation sites that wouldn’t be deemed acceptable by MD accrediting bodies. Even if a DO school does have an official affiliation with a local major hospital, that doesn’t mean that all (or even most) of its students will get a chance to rotate there. Subpar clinical rotations are a major downside of DO education.

I was going to say something very similar.

In hindsight, my best advice to anyone applying to DO school who ends up with multiple acceptances is to try to get a hold of someone going to each program and ask for a list of the sites and *how many people rotate at each site.* There is one site my school uses that has a metric ton of residency programs and is a larger hospital - it’s by far our most desirable. The issue is that they take 20 students on average, and our class was around 230 people by the time third year rolled around. Our second most desired site which also has a lot of residencies took 10 people. Our third with a bunch of residencies took 50. And after that, you were looking at the majority of the class rotating at sites that only a couple residency programs, if any. Some people rotated places without a single residency program.

I would also take a *very* close look at what their worst rotation sites are, because one of those may be where you end up. Myself and the one other student that ended up at our site only ended up there because our names were drawn very far down in the lottery. Literally not a single person in the class ranked our site high... most ranked it at the very bottom. Somebody has to get sent somewhere that literally no one wanted to go and it might just be you.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

It makes no difference. All that matters is where you can rotate. I went to western and there are great medical centers nearby, yet most rotations were at dog**** places

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I was going to say something very similar.

In hindsight, my best advice to anyone applying to DO school who ends up with multiple acceptances is to try to get a hold of someone going to each program and ask for a list of the sites and *how many people rotate at each site.* There is one site my school uses that has a metric ton of residency programs and is a larger hospital - it’s by far our most desirable. The issue is that they take 20 students on average, and our class was around 230 people by the time third year rolled around. Our second most desired site which also has a lot of residencies took 10 people. Our third with a bunch of residencies took 50. And after that, you were looking at the majority of the class rotating at sites that only a couple residency programs, if any. Some people rotated places without a single residency program.

I would also take a *very* close look at what their worst rotation sites are, because one of those may be where you end up. Myself and the one other student that ended up at our site only ended up there because our names were drawn very far down in the lottery. Literally not a single person in the class ranked our site high... most ranked it at the very bottom. Somebody has to get sent somewhere that literally no one wanted to go and it might just be you.

I don't disagree. I have found that rotation sites have become rather fluid, meaning you gain some ,lose some, nearly every year. By the time you matriculate, it might be 3 years before you go on rotations, so much may have changed.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

After interviewing there last year, I’d encourage applicants to attend another school if possible, unless you have very strong ties to east Texas and just really, really want to spend your time in school and residency in Lufkin, Port Arthur, etc. They can’t even secure rotations at Memorial Herman down the street—probably for lack of desire for both parties, which is telling.

The sense that I got was basically good luck matching anywhere outside of their affiliated network. Their goal is to streamline and improve medical care in rural east Texas. Admirable and noble, but not a great fit for anyone that wants to do or go anywhere else after school.

Especially for private tuition rates at a public school, because the state legislature felt this school was unnecessary...

 

[DrStephenStrange]

After interviewing there last year, I’d encourage applicants to attend another school if possible, unless you have very strong ties to east Texas and just really, really want to spend your time in school and residency in Lufkin, Port Arthur, etc. They can’t even secure rotations at Memorial Herman down the street—probably for lack of desire for both parties, which is telling.

The sense that I got was basically good luck matching anywhere outside of their affiliated network. Their goal is to streamline and improve medical care in rural east Texas. Admirable and noble, but not a great fit for anyone that wants to do or go anywhere else after school.

Especially for private tuition rates at a public school, because the state legislature felt this school was unnecessary...

They can't force you to stay in rural texas. You can apply anywhere you want for residency, and you can definitely match outside of rural texas too. My school had a similar goal as a new school, and yet many people match out of state.

 

[Mattyice2020]

Hey, so I attend SHSU and can tell you we have several research opportunities within the school and have some amazing people to help you find research opportunities, but you likely won't be able to do research in places like the TMC because there are so many people jockeying for those spots and we simply don't have connections to those hospitals and labs. We truly are a rural oriented program which sadly means that we only do our core rotations through community hospitals despite having numerous hospitals like Memorial Herman, Texas Children's, CHI St. Luke's within 20 minutes of our campus. There still is the potential to due research at big facilities, but it is going to be very difficult to get in unless you already have some sort of connection.

 

[The Med-Peds Dude]

DO students from new schools are at even more a disadvantage usually. Unless you kill boards and/or your networking skills are on point.

As a PD, I'd just add that it is not the 'newness' of the schools, per se. What I do see is non-academic clinical rotations in core specialties. Spending 4-6 weeks with a community pediatrician, seeing outpatients and newborns in lieu of an IP+OP experience at a pediatric residency, will not prepare you in the least for pediatric training. Getting a Peds SubI is very challenging in this situation.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

As a PD, I'd just add that it is not the 'newness' of the schools, per se. What I do see is non-academic clinical rotations in core specialties. Spending 4-6 weeks with a community pediatrician, seeing outpatients and newborns in lieu of an IP+OP experience at a pediatric residency, will not prepare you in the least for pediatric training. Getting a Peds SubI is very challenging in this situation.

Why would it be hard to get a sub-i?

 

[katiemaude]

The real question is does the school do core rotations through said hospital? Nova does rotations at Sinai in Miami and a few other big hospitals so naturally they match students at these places. We don’t have core rotations through Jackson Memorial (Uni of Miami) so nobody ever matches there.

Not sure if anyone has responded to this but I have multiple classmates who matched pediatrics and anesthesiology at Jackson.

 

[Naruto_state_of_mind]

Unless your school is affiliated with said medical center then no. More likely that medical center will want nothing to do with the students from the crappy, brand new DO school in town. That’s just the brutal truth.

UIW did just fine. They matched well into many specialties including competitive ones

 

[Spectreman]

Not sure if anyone has responded to this but I have multiple classmates who matched pediatrics and anesthesiology at Jackson.

Yeah I realized that after I posted this. I guess in general though the idea stands that if you want your school to help you get into a competitive hospital it’s best if that school also rotates there.

 

[The Med-Peds Dude]

Why would it be hard to get a sub-i?

Many (not all) programs offering SubI's require a preliminary academic inpatient experience. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[drducky.]

This is completely untrue. The #1 clinic for vascular and ct surgery is in that medical center and they just matched a DO from KCU

Im so tired of this argument. Just because a singular DO did something in a pool of MDs don’t mean jack ****

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Im so tired of this argument. Just because a singular DO did something in a pool of MDs don’t mean jack ****

The argument was against the fact that someone said world class institutions don't want anything to do with DOs. I don't think this statement was generalization.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Many (not all) programs offering SubI's require a preliminary academic inpatient experience. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

My friends never had that problem? Maybe regional thing. This was in southern CA

 

[DOVinciRobot]

UIW did just fine. They matched well into many specialties including competitive ones

“Just fine” is a very relative term.

The argument was against the fact that someone said world class institutions don't want anything to do with DOs. I don't think this statement was generalization.

It was me. And it clearly was a tongue in cheek generalization regarding DOs doing core rotations at world class institutions.

Even if a DO matches somewhere like that it doesn’t mean those places want to have DOs, it means they made an exception.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

They can't force you to stay in rural texas. You can apply anywhere you want for residency, and you can definitely match outside of rural texas too. My school had a similar goal as a new school, and yet many people match out of state.

Oh of course they can’t, but I was just referring to the total lack of reputation for training doctors at all ~30 of their hodgepodge affiliate sites throughout east Texas. Most of them have never been affiliated with any sort of GME program, even as satellite locations.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

“Just fine” is a very relative term.

It was me. And it clearly was a tongue in cheek generalization regarding DOs doing core rotations at world class institutions.

Even if a DO matches somewhere like that it doesn’t mean those places want to have DOs, it means they made an exception.

I acknowledge your tongue and cheek remark and remind everyone that most MD grads dont have core rotations at world class institutions as most med schools dont have world class hospitals. Also, not all of those students get to rotate through the Mother Ship for any or all of their rotations. Most are at university affiliates, which are usually quite good.

As for PDs not wanting DOs, I know there is some bias at some programs against DOs, but the vast majority of PDs want good candidates, MD or DO, especially after the merger. At those biased programs, DOs aren't the only ones they have bias for as pedigree will play a big factor there. BTW, some of those Mother Ship rotations suck. You might be 6th or 7th in line on rounds behind, Attending, Fellow, couple residents, sub I, 4th yr med students, then you.
As far as matching, the next few years will be rough IMO. Lots of DOs matched this yr, but match rates went down for DOs and MDs. I feel.sorry for those dealing with Covid restrictions and the increased competition. All I can say is put the best app together you can for residency and try to audition at programs you feel you have a decent chance ro match. Some DOs will.match at great programs, so might as well be you.