Does the osteopathic basic science curriculum prepare you for STEP1 by default or is there considerable more prep work needed to get ready for STEP?

[SM25]

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I'm still trying to understand the merger and how that affects future DO students but do you think the osteopathic curriculum today will get you ready for either exam or do you really need to put in a lot of additional studying to get ready for STEP after preparing for COMLEX?

I'm looking into DO schools but I don't know too much about the difference in curriculum's.

 

[Goro]

n=1, but my students do at or slightly above the national MD cohort for Step I.

 

[SM25]

n=1, but my students do at or slightly above the national MD cohort for Step I.

Well that is very assuring going forward.

Do you generally advise your students to take both exams or would you tell a prospective DO student to pursue success with the COMLEX?

 

[Goro]

Well that is very assuring going forward.

Do you generally advise your students to take both exams or would you tell a prospective DO student to pursue success with the COMLEX?

My advice is that if your GPA is 80% or better in preclincials, then take Step I.

 

[SM25]

My advice is that if your GPA is 80% or better in preclincials, then take Step I.

I will make a note of that.

In your opinion, do you think all the noise about the merger is not really something to be worried about? The way they make it sound is that DO schools will have to close down because all the MD's will now take the residency spots.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

do you really need to put in a lot of additional studying to get ready for STEP after preparing for COMLEX?

Yes. Many people do it and do well but that's because they put in extra effort, your school curriculum will not be enough to get you even to a passing Step score most likely.

In your opinion, do you think all the noise about the merger is not really something to be worried about? The way they make it sound is that DO schools will have to close down because all the MD's will now take the residency spots.

Depends on what kind of student you are. The better students are matching better than ever, while the bottom 10-15% of students are already feeling the squeeze and it's only going to get worse.

 

[SM25]

Yes. Many people do it and do well but that's because they put in extra effort, your school curriculum will not be enough to get you even to a passing Step score most likely.



Depends on what kind of student you are. The better students are matching better than ever, while the bottom 10-15% of students are already feeling the squeeze and it's only going to get worse.

Are you a DO student?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Yes.

 

[Ho0v-man]

To somewhat ease your fears, most MD students complain that their curriculum didn’t prepare them for step.

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

n=1, but my students do at or slightly above the national MD cohort for Step I.

Does every single student at your school take it? Or a self selecting group of peers? If it's not required, what % of students take it?

 

[Cheeni17]

Probably depends on the school. Even if it doesn’t it’s more important to figure out if the school wastes what otherwise would be spare time you should have for step and dedicated period. Sadly a lot of the poor prep schools also have lots of time sucks besides their faculty are *****s. Go on inv and ask students. Or email the school and ask. It’s your money know what you are paying for

 

[Goro]

Does every single student at your school take it? Or a self selecting group of peers? If it's not required, what % of students take it?

About 2/3rds take it. The kids <80 % are strongly encouraged not too (that's about %10% of the Class, max). The others are interested in Primary Care and so know that they're fine with just COMLEX. they're not gunning for NYU or Mass Gen, after all.

It's not required, but I feel that it should be, as long as we pay for the fee. Our parent organization will never og for that, alas.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

as long as we pay for the fee. Our parent organization will never og for that, alas.

I will never understand this.

 

[Goro]

I will never understand this.

We're the cash cow that keeps the rest of the organization afloat, it seems at times. I'll bet my faculty peers at Midwestern can say the same thing.

 

[Goro]

I will make a note of that.

In your opinion, do you think all the noise about the merger is not really something to be worried about? The way they make it sound is that DO schools will have to close down because all the MD's will now take the residency spots.

So far I have yet to see the sky fall. There are still more slots than bodies to fill them.

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

Still plenty of IMG to oust and please get to it. Many of them are the worst to deal with in residency

very much uncalled for statement! this generalization is not true at all and is extremely immature, and reflects much more poorly on yourself than on any IMG.

 

[Cheeni17]

very much uncalled for statement! this generalization is not true at all and is extremely immature, and reflects much more poorly on yourself than on any IMG.

I said many not at all and I assure you it is where I am. Probably a cultural thing from the most popular places IMG come from.

 

[bears1992]

Minus the OMM, the curriculum at my DO school covers everything in Step and COMLEX. Our school even issued a free First Aid Step board study book. I imagine most other schools have almost identical curriculum to MD schools.

 

[sunshinefl]

I'm still trying to understand the merger and how that affects future DO students but do you think the osteopathic curriculum today will get you ready for either exam or do you really need to put in a lot of additional studying to get ready for STEP after preparing for COMLEX?

I'm looking into DO schools but I don't know too much about the difference in curriculum's.

Seeing how I just took my second NBME today and “foundational science” is consistently LOW for me... I want to say no it didn’t prepare me and yes there’s a ton of additional work to be done. But I also didn’t excel first year either. I did way better second year. I’m trying to chip away at my deficiencies now before my exam in 3 weeks...

 

[SM25]

Seeing how I just took my second NBME today and “foundational science” is consistently LOW for me... I want to say no it didn’t prepare me and yes there’s a ton of additional work to be done. But I also didn’t excel first year either. I did way better second year. I’m trying to chip away at my deficiencies now before my exam in 3 weeks...

So if you did better first year, do you think the outcome would be different?

 

[Jyggaswoop]

I will make a note of that.

In your opinion, do you think all the noise about the merger is not really something to be worried about? The way they make it sound is that DO schools will have to close down because all the MD's will now take the residency spots.

Don't most family med places go unfilled after match? With new schools opening in the coming years, DO's will have to be smarter about what specialty to apply to than they already are now, and many more will probably apply family med as a safety than they do now..

 

[sunshinefl]

So if you did better first year, do you think the outcome would be different?

It’s hard to say... I’ll never know because I will never experience having done better first year. But also, there’s so many confounding variables. Maybe it was the instruction? Maybe it was the course schedule? Maybe it was the exams? Maybe it was the hurricane that made us miss 3 weeks in the middle of the first semester? Maybe it was because I over-extended myself first year with other things (I was working some weekends, I started the concurrent MPH but stopped after first year, I was planning my wedding)? Maybe I was weak in those areas coming into medical school? Hard to know.

Two areas of basic science that DO schools seem to actually emphasize more are anatomy and microbiology.

 

[sunshinefl]

I just want to add that I discovered boards and beyond AFTER first year. That was really a game changer. Please get and use boards and beyond from the beginning to supplement your curriculum. Don’t look ahead, but use alongside.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Two areas of basic science that DO schools seem to actually emphasize more are anatomy and microbiology.

This has been my experience as well.

 

[SLC]

Yes. Many people do it and do well but that's because they put in extra effort, your school curriculum will not be enough to get you even to a passing Step score most likely.



Depends on what kind of student you are. The better students are matching better than ever, while the bottom 10-15% of students are already feeling the squeeze and it's only going to get worse.

Strongly disagree. N=1; but I only casually did questions during the later half of yr2; and listened to goljian while working out. Then 2 weeks of dedicated study with FIrstAid and UWorld, scored a bit above national average that year on USMLE.

Curriculum during my first 2 years was more than adequate for a pass on Step1.

COMLEX and USMLE test the exact same material, sure COMLEX may have one subject represented more on the exam than it is on USMLE, and vice versus; but on the whole it’s not like USMLE tests something that COMLEX doesn’t. The only significant difference IMO between the tests is that the USMLE has clearer questions and no OMM. My percentile score on USMLE was actually higher than my COMLEX score, on both step/part 1&2.

If you’re confident you’ll score well on COMLEX-1; there’s no real reason to think you can’t score well on USMLE-1 too.

 

[SM25]

Strongly disagree. N=1; but I only casually did questions during the later half of yr2; and listened to goljian while working out. Then 2 weeks of dedicated study with FIrstAid and UWorld, scored a bit above national average that year on USMLE.

Curriculum during my first 2 years was more than adequate for a pass on Step1.

COMLEX and USMLE test the exact same material; the only difference between the tests is that the USMLE has clearer questions and no OMM. My percentile score on USMLE was actually higher than my COMLEX score, on both step/part 1&2.

If you’re confident you’ll score well on COMLEX-1; there’s no real reason to think you can’t score well on USMLE-1 too.

That is very reassuring.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If you’re confident you’ll score well on COMLEX-1; there’s no real reason to think you can’t score well on USMLE-1 too.

This simply isn't true.

 

[SM25]

This simply isn't true.

That's coming from a doctor man and I've also heard it from someone else here.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That's coming from a doctor man and I've also heard it from someone else here.

Ok so someone who took the test 6 years ago? Follow that advice at your own peril. Ask for your school's data on board scores, if they even give it. Lots of DOs walking around with mid 500s-600s COMLEX scores that got 220 or lower on Step.

 

[SM25]

Ok so someone who took the test 6 years ago? Follow that advice at your own peril. Ask for your school's data on board scores, if they even give it. Lots of DOs walking around with mid 500s-600s COMLEX scores that got 220 or lower on Step.

Well then let me ask you this, if you're saying osteopathic schools don't prepare you well for STEP, then why have osteopathic schools in the first place? What is their purpose considering there is a residency merger coming up?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Well then let me ask you this, if you're saying osteopathic schools don't prepare you well for STEP, then why have osteopathic schools in the first place? What is their purpose considering there is a residency merger coming up?

Osteopathic schools don't prepare you well for Step. That is a known fact so I don't understand why you are finding this controversial. There are definitely some schools that do so better than others but as a whole they don't and maybe you should ask yourself why a massive chunk of DO students don't take it. The Step average for DO students is significantly below that of MDs, and that is without about 40% of students (typically the weaker ones) taking it.

You want an honest answer? DO schools exist because of historical reasons that honestly aren't really relevant anymore. They remain as they are in their current iteration to make money and to churn out primary care physicians.

I also find the idea that "preparing for Step" is somehow related to purpose of existence laughable.

 

[SM25]

Osteopathic schools don't prepare you well for Step. That is a known fact so I don't understand why you are finding this controversial. There are definitely some schools that do so better than others but as a whole they don't and maybe you should ask yourself why a massive chunk of DO students don't take it. The Step average for DO students is significantly below that of MDs, and that is without about 40% of students (typically the weaker ones) taking it.

You want an honest answer? DO schools exist because of historical reasons that honestly aren't really relevant anymore. They remain as they are in their current iteration to make money and to churn out primary care physicians.

I also find the idea that "preparing for Step" is somehow related to purpose of existence laughable.

I don't think it is "laughable." If you have a residency merger coming up then the DO school should prepare their students the same way MD schools do. What's "laughable" about that?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I don't think it is "laughable." If you have a residency merger coming up then the DO school should prepare their students the same way MD schools do. What's "laughable" about that?

It's laughable because a good amount of MD schools don't really prepare you for Step either.... preparedness for a test isn't related to why a school exists.

 

[SLC]

This simply isn't true.

Explain?

 

[SM25]

It's laughable because a good amount of MD schools don't really prepare you for Step either.... preparedness for a test isn't related to why a school exists.

Well if DO schools and MD schools aren't preparing the students for STEP, maybe we can just do away with STEP.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Explain?

DOs on average tend to do worse on Step than on COMLEX if they haven't been preparing for Step. The idea that one will get a good score on Step simply because they get a good score on COMLEX is false. They may test on similar topics but Step has a much different focus. I mean, go ask the NBOME, they will straight up tell you this... in fact, they told our entire school that they do this intentionally.

 

[SM25]

DOs on average tend to do worse on Step than on COMLEX if they haven't been preparing for Step. The idea that one will get a good score on Step simply because they get a good score on COMLEX is false. They may test on similar topics but Step has a much different focus. I mean, go ask the NBOME, they will straight up tell you this...

Well nobody was saying that COMLEX and STEP have a correlation. I was just asking which DO schools prepare you for STEP.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Well if DO schools and MD schools aren't preparing the students for STEP, maybe we can just do away with STEP.

Maybe you should get into medical school first before you start discussing things you clearly have no knowledge of. Step prep is largely on you as the student.

Well nobody was saying that COMLEX and STEP have a correlation. I was just asking which DO schools prepare you for STEP.

And I gave you the honest answer. None of them. If you want to do well on Step you need to put your own time into it.

 

[ExplodingUlcers]

To somewhat ease your fears, most MD students complain that their curriculum didn’t prepare them for step.

I'm an incoming MS1 and FWIW this is even true my MD school. The current students have stated time and time again that their lectures have not prepared them for step and complained loudly enough that the faculty / admin people are going to revamp the curriculum for my class so that it's more "board relevant." Not exactly sure what that entails but I'm sure glad to be benefitting from their trials and tribulations.

 

[SLC]

DOs on average tend to do worse on Step than on COMLEX if they haven't been preparing for Step. The idea that one will get a good score on Step simply because they get a good score on COMLEX is false. They may test on similar topics but Step has a much different focus. I mean, go ask the NBOME, they will straight up tell you this... in fact, they told our entire school that they do this intentionally.

There is still nothing that USMLE tests that you haven’t been taught. And I disagree strongly that they are so different that you shouldn’t perform similarly on both.

USMLE is not some mythical exam that is more difficult than COMLEX despite drawing questions from the exact same body of material.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

For step 1 look up something called “UFAPS” on reddit.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

There is still nothing that USMLE tests that you haven’t been taught. And I disagree strongly that they are so different that you shouldn’t perform similarly on both.

USMLE is not some mythical exam that is more difficult than COMLEX despite drawing questions from the exact same body of material.

They have different emphasis. This is literally accepted as fact by pretty much everyone so I don't know why you are arguing this, perhaps you are so far removed from it you don't remember? Nothing I have said is even remotely controversial. They are different enough that it is VERY common to see a solid COMLEX score and sub par USMLE. This happens all the time. The testing pool is also vastly different which plays a role in this phenomenon.

 

[Sephirakra]

Osteopathic schools don't prepare you well for Step. That is a known fact so I don't understand why you are finding this controversial. There are definitely some schools that do so better than others but as a whole they don't and maybe you should ask yourself why a massive chunk of DO students don't take it. The Step average for DO students is significantly below that of MDs, and that is without about 40% of students (typically the weaker ones) taking it.

They have different emphasis. This is literally accepted as fact by pretty much everyone so I don't know why you are arguing this, perhaps you are so far removed from it you don't remember? Nothing I have said is even remotely controversial. They are different enough that it is VERY common to see a solid COMLEX score and sub par USMLE. This happens all the time. The testing pool is also vastly different which plays a role in this phenomenon.

I'm beginning to think you don't know what facts are.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I'm an incoming MS1 and FWIW this is even true my MD school. The current students have stated time and time again that their lectures have not prepared them for step and complained loudly enough that the faculty / admin people are going to revamp the curriculum for my class so that it's more "board relevant." Not exactly sure what that entails but I'm sure glad to be benefitting from their trials and tribulations.

Oh sweet child. I know exactly what this means because it happens everywhere. This just means move the same crappy lectures into a different order and not actually change a d*** thing. Schools have an obligation to respond to student complaints and show that they have done something to address them. Their governing bodies, either COCA or LCME start breathing down their necks if they don’t. This is the easiest way to do it.


Don’t trust that your school is doing anything beyond the bare minimum.

 

[SM25]

I'm beginning to think you don't know what facts are.

Lol, he’s on another thread calling me a troll because I said something he thought was mean about PA’s.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm beginning to think you don't know what facts are.

Ignore what I'm saying at your own peril. Anyone who trusts their school to prepare them for Step, or boards in general honestly, is in for a rude awakening. There is hard data that shows what I am saying isn't a point of dispute. Last time I checked hard data counted as fact.

Edited to remove insult. -Staff.

 

[SM25]

Ignore what I'm saying at your own peril. Anyone who trusts their school to prepare them for Step, or boards in general honestly, is in for a rude awakening. There is hard data that shows what I am saying isn't a point of dispute. Last time I checked hard data counted as fact.

Aaaaaand reported

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Excellent

 

[PA_dud3]

About 2/3rds take it. The kids <80 % are strongly encouraged not too (that's about %10% of the Class, max). The others are interested in Primary Care and so know that they're fine with just COMLEX. they're not gunning for NYU or Mass Gen, after all.

It's not required, but I feel that it should be, as long as we pay for the fee. Our parent organization will never og for that, alas.

I know Internal Medicine is considered primary care, but would the average DO student who wants to work in a hospital as an internist (or an IM Subspecialty) need to take the STEP or would COMLEX be sufficient for most residency programs with the upcoming merger?

 

[Goro]

I know Internal Medicine is considered primary care, but would the average DO who works in a hospital as an internist (or an IM Subspecialty) need to take the STEP or would COMLEX be sufficient for most residency programs with the upcoming merger?

As GME is still a learning process for me, I'm gonna punt that to wiser SDN colleagues.