Don't apply early if weak GPA and No DAT

[mcataz]

Hi, I thought I would share this piece of information with you guys regardng applying to AADSAS. I have a 2.9 GPA with an inconsistent and poor record of grades. I'm in a post-bac program too. Nonetheless, I contacted several admissions officers about my situation and I asked whether I should send my application now or wait. Here is what they had to say:

Helen Yarenis, admissions coordinator of Tufts Dental school said

"I would wait until you have taken your DATs before submitting your application. If you submit the application before the scores are available, an admissions committee may make a decision based on your coursework without the DAT scores. This may not be to your benefit if you score well on the DAT. Also, you would not be invited for an interview at Tufts without DAT scores. Furthermore, because of your borderline GPA, admissions committees may also wait on making a decision
until your fall grades are available. My advice would be to send your application as close to when your DAT scores are available. August is still considered early in the application cycle."

Mark Lombard of Temple University Dental School said

I would wait until my DAT scores are posted. But don't wait too long--we get nearly 2,000 applications for 125 seats, and it's the early bird that catches the worm....

This is something to consider if you are like me and your DAT's will be your saving grace.

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[StarGirl]

that's kinda weird... i applied early... and my gpa's not that much higher but I got an interview invite at temple and bu way before i took my DATs...i guess it can work for or against you...

 

[m3power]

If I were you I would do extremely well on the DAT (20+). This should help make up for your low GPA. Admissions also look at your science GPA. If it is higher than your overall GPA of 2.9, that would be beneficial. Keep in mind, it is extremely competitive to get into Dental Schools. Getting an interview doesn't mean much. Look at the GPA and DAT stats for dental schools. They are all around 3.2 GPA and 19 DAT. Good luck!

 

[mcataz]

Helen also said

As for your GPA, a 2.95 GPA can mean many things. It could mean
(A.) fairly consistent B- grades

(B.) a slow start and consistent improvement over time or

(C.) inconsistent performance throughout undergraduate work.

The most difficult to overcome is the C situation. Another aspect to consider is what courses were taken? If the 2.95 is comprised of upper level science classes, than that is looked on more favorably as well.

Unfortunately, I was in the (C.) category. Also, there is a huge difference between 3.1 and 2.9 so if you had a slightly higher GPA, it's more significant than you think. Yeah, I will need to ace the DAT's to stand a chance.

 

[Yah-E]

When I applied for the 2002 entering class, I didn't submit my AADSAS until the end of November 2001 because of this reason. I had a low undergraduate GPA and I wanted to wait until I had my Post-Bac graduate GPAs to show for at the end of my Winter Quarter.

When dental schools recieved my AADSAS in the first week of January 2002, the only numbers in the application were my 1st DAT scores (back in August 1999), my undergraduate GPAs, and TWO quarters of Post-Bac graduate GPAs.

I, then, retook my DAT on January 2, 2002 and dental schools recieved my "perfect vision" official DAT scores in mid-January 2002. I was then finally invited to my first dental school interview at Temple in February 2002.

Bottomline, I didn't want to submit my AADSAS application until it was in its best shape! This was also my first and only time applying to dental schools. I didn't apply to dental school back in 1999 when I took my first DAT because I knew I wouldn't get in anywhere with my subpar undergraduate GPAs. Why waste the money and time and then stress over about it, right?

This only holds TRUE for applicants with lower GPAs, for those of you that have solid GPAs, by all means, apply early!!

My AADSAS Application Time Line for 2002 entering class:

AADSAS submitted electronically on: 11-28-01
Dental schools received my AADSAS: 1-08-02
First dental interview (Temple): 2-8-02
First denial (Tufts): 2-15-02
Second denial (UPenn): 3-2-02
Second dental interview (Nova): 3-6-02
Third denial (Columbia): 3-7-02
Third dental interview (NYU): 3-15-02
First acceptance (NYU): 3-15-02
Second acceptance (Nova): 3-15-02
Fourth denial (UOP): 3-15-02
First waitlist (Temple): 3-15-02
Committed to Nova: 3-16-02
Withdrew applications (BU, Marquette, UDMercy): 3-16-02
Fourth acceptance (Temple): 5-16-02

As you can see, although I applied late in the cycle, everything happened pretty quickly for me. Within a short 4 months period, I applied and was accepted all in one try.

Be a little patient and wait for your numbers (DAT and GPA) to come together and submit your application when it's most potent!

 

[FMLizard]

Definately do those DATs. What is keeping you from taking them now?

Stats wise, your DATs and GPA are the two legs you stand on. With a 2.9, you already are on one wobbly leg. If you don't have DAT scores, you only stand on that one wobbly leg and will likely fall, cut out in the initial, pre-secondary cut.

If you add in some strong DAT scores, the whole picture changes. Now you have a strong leg to stand on to offset the weaker GPA. Without those DAT scores, you are just another 2.9 GPA applicant who frankly won't likely make the cut. With a 2.9 and a 20+ DAT, you suddenly become a much more interesting and competitive candidate.

 

[mcataz]

Yah-E

You are an inspiration to us all 3.0 and below club members. Seriously, it makes it a lot easier on all us of knowing that one of us made it. It's keeping me sane man.

Thanks again

 

[FMLizard]

Originally posted by Yah-E

Third dental interview (NYU): 3-15-02
First acceptance (NYU): 3-15-02

Is it common procedure to be accepted on the spot at dental schools? Was that the case here?

 

[Yah-E]

It's not common to be accepted right on the spot, but NYU is one of those schools that will do that. I was accepted at NYU at the end of my interview (which is another whole experience by itself).

When it's getting late in the application cycle, I believe that NYU accepts applicants right there and then!

I'm not sure if not schools does this, but I know quite a bit of applicants that were accepted on the same day as their interview at NYU!

😀

 

[ItsGavinC]

At two of the schools I interviewed at last year, I was accepted more or less on the spot. One happened at the end of the day as one of my interviewers was driving me around town on a tour, and the other acceptance came as I was in a cab heading to the airport.

So, perhaps this is becoming more common than it has been in the past. I think that if one makes a great impression on the interviewers, there really isn't much of a reason for them to delay the acceptance. After all, they are playing the game also. Their end of the game is "get students to come to our school and pay us".

Sorry to get off the original topic.

 

[ItsGavinC]

In regards to the original topic, note that in the timeline Yah-E posted: he received several acceptances, but also several denials! His first acceptance came AFTER three denials.

This is a great reminder that you must research the schools you are applying to. Yah-E did a wonderful job (as always) of spending his money AND efforts on applying to schools where he would gain admissions given his circumstances.

What if he had NOT applied to Nova, NYU, or Temple?

This stands as a wonderful example of why it is important to apply to schools who value the characteristics that you can bring to the table.

Some schools prefer non-traditional students. Some schools value the DAT more than GPA, and some schools are willing to overlook a terrible GPA if you have put forth superb effort in graduate level courses.

Ideally we would all want to get into our #1 school, but that rarely works out for the majority of us. That doesn't mean we shouldn't apply to our top schools, because having a few "reach" schools on your application may give you a pleasant surprise. It does mean, however, that if the ultimate goal is to practice dentistry, then one ought to apply to schools that will give you a greater chance of admissions.

For example, you may dislike the humidity in Ohio, but if Case Western seems to accept students who have similar GPA/DATs/circumstances as you, then you probably ought to apply there.

Just random ramblings 😀

 

[Yah-E]

Gavin, True, true, true...

 

[FMLizard]

Yah-E:

Must have been heady, emotional stuff to get your first acceptance ever (NYU) right on the spot, especially with some uncertainty as to whether or not you would get in at all after three quick denials and your grades being what they were.

Nova sounds much better though...NYU would be too crowded and expensive for me. The next day must have been even better to get that acceptance.

Gavin:

Do you think that it is wise to apply to schools you likely wouldn't be all that thrilled to attend just to bolster your chances? If you have pretty strong numbers, should you just pick a few schools that you really think you would like and be fairly certain you will get at least one accept?

 

[grettlin2]

Hi ItsGavinC, as you mentioned some schools prefer to accept non-traditional students. What do you define "non-traditional"? Could you tell me what these schools are and how can I find the data which might not be figured out from AADSAS publish? Thanks!

 

[tinker bell]

Do not count on Temple this year. Since Mark Lombard is leaving, the whole ball game will change. I suggest that you guys wait and see how interview invites from Temple come.

About apply late, I agree that is absolutely true. The first time I applied, I got all denial even before my DAT was taken.

Second time, ucsf post bac program told us not to apply extremely early. We waited until we finished the DAT in aug. Then, we all turn in our applications in Sept, Oct.

I turned mine in Sep 23. Got BU and Temple interviews in Nov.
BU acceptance came in Dec, Temple acceptance came in Jan.

I also received other interview invites from Case, Pitt, UCSF (all scheduled in Jan, due to the long xmas break).

UOP was the last interview I decided to go (since it's in the same town, I go for a free lunch). I canceled my UPitt, Nova and UCLA interview and withdrew my application from all other schools after I received my UCSF acceptance.

I suggest that you folks with low GPA take time to study the DAT, take the test in Aug, and turn in application by Sep first. You guys will be in good shape.

Even if u turn in your application early, and you are not the 3.9, 27 DAT, at some good schools, your file won't be reviewed until the cream of the crop are all taken care of.

 

[busupshot83]

Going back to the "standing on two legs" thing:

What if you have "normal" GPA and DAT scores? Let's say, 3.2 GPA and 18-19 DAT, is that sufficient enought to get you into dental schools?

bus.

 

[hockeydentist]

You get denied becuase you applied to early with mediocore grades. I thought the key is that you want to be in the first round of application because the high GPA applicants don't apply till the middle rounds. am I totally wrong. I had a friend who got into San antonio first try with below a 3.0 gpa and below average DAT talking 17 academic average. He got his acceptance in the end of may. Although laTE HE WAS ACCEPTED. Had really good reccommendations and really good extra curricular activities. How does one explain that? So goes to show you that dental admission committees are not looking at the grades.

I was told that Dental schools can give you an interview but have to see everything before they can make a decision. If you got an interview without DAT scores your lucky i guess. But then admission decision comes down to your DAT score afterwords.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by FMLizard


Gavin:

Do you think that it is wise to apply to schools you likely wouldn't be all that thrilled to attend just to bolster your chances? If you have pretty strong numbers, should you just pick a few schools that you really think you would like and be fairly certain you will get at least one accept?

By all means, the higher your numbers are, and the more well-rounded you are, the more better able you are to play the admissions game.

There isn't anything wrong with shooting for schools you want to attend, but if you have poor/low stats, and your ULITMATE goal is to become a dentist, then one ought to apply to schools that would appreciate your application.

If your goal is to attend a SPECIFIC school AND become a dentist, then you might want to wait a year to bolster your application.

 

[tinker bell]

Hockey, that's exactly what I said. Good schools don't consider average folks until they are done taking care of the cream of the crop.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by hockeydentist
I thought the key is that you want to be in the first round of application because the high GPA applicants don't apply till the middle rounds. am I totally wrong.

I don't think there is any specific formula for all of this. My point was simply to research the schools you apply to, and to narrow down those schools based on your stats/application.

I don't know that it is written anywhere that high GPA applicants always wait to the middle rounds -- in fact, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Applicants who get good grades are typically type-A personalities, and so they usually apply early in the cycle as well.

If your application is complete TURN IT IN. This is regardless of your stats.

 

[mcataz]

Yo Hockey

I would apply early if I had my DAT scores (assuming they are high of course). The problem is that I haven't taken my DAT. And with a low GPA, you need a high DAT to offset your grades to be seriously considered. So if they see my transcript without strong DAT scores to offset those grades, some schools may go ahead and reject me right off the bat as opposed to waiting for my scores to arrive in the coming months. That's why I said don't apply early if you have a weak GPA and you LACK DAT scores. But if you already have great DAT scores despite a low GPA, go ahead and apply. It will benefit you.

Regarding the schools we should apply to, I think there are only 5 schools that will reallly overlook bad GPA's. There are people that have weak GPA's and then there are people that have really bad transcripts meaning a lot of dropped classes, F's etc. For those of us with the botched record, my research has led to me to only 6 schools that we have a realistic shot at.

1. NYU
2. BU
3. Detroit Mercy
4. Nova
5. Pitt
6. Temple - However, Tinkerbell said Mark is leaving so I don't know how that will affect people like me. I may have to cross Temple off the list.

Nonetheless, I would be happy to get into any of those schools. Detroit Mercy suprised me. I actually visited Detroit Mercy and I loved their facilities. And while Detroit sucks in general, they are renovating downtown and there are a lot of cool bars, clubs, and sporting events nearby.