don't know if I should apply DO. Please convince me that I should or shouldn't

[Jesus is Real <3]

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[zurc2014]

Dont apply DO!





















































Itll be less competition for me.

 

[Geo16]

Itll be less competition for me.

You sneaky...

 

[zurc2014]

You sneaky...

#dontjudgetho

 

[cptnjack]

I have a 3.98 cGPA, 3.92 sGPA, 511 MCAT (127,126,126, 132) and decent ECs. I applied to MDs in late June and finished my final secondaries in August. I haven't gotten any good news back yet and I'm concerned. I don't know if I should reapply to MD next cycle and apply DO then too, or if I should apply DO right now this cycle just in case MD doesnt work out. I'm trying to balance the merits of both and was hoping you could help me decide.

I do not plan to start a flame-war or start an MD vs DO debate. This is the not the place for that. If you want a debate, go elsewhere. I've lurked on nearly every MD vs DO thread and it sure ain't pretty. I just need logical and reasonable input about a few concerns I have.

Here are my problems with going DO:

1. The merger may have unpredictable consequences for DO residencies. I want to do anesthesiology or an internal medicine subfellowship, and the fact that "more competitive" MD applicants may apply to former DO-only programs scares me. Is this a likely outcome or am I not being rational?

2. Its getting late in the DO cycle and in case I don't get in to a good DO school this cycle, I don't want to be branded as a DO- reapplicant next cycle. this would hurt me right?

3. This third problem is hard to address, but I'm gonna let it all out. Please don't make fun of me or call me a troll. I'm doing my best not to start a flamewar here while discussing my concerns. So, my family are immigrants from Europe. Where we lived there, an "osteopath" was considered to be a "quack" or a massage-therapist/chiropractor. They also had the degree of DO (but it stood for diplomate of osteopathy). I'm not even kidding when I say they are considered among the least respected jobs over there. And I know that US DOs are "doctors of osteopathic medicine", but still, the term "osteopathic medicine" and "osteopathy" are used interchangeably back in my home country. I've gotten a load of crap from my cousins and friends when I told them I'm thinking about DO. I don't live by the expectations of others, but this still bothers me to a considerable extent. Any pre-DOs who have a similar experience? How did you deal with it?
The DO is a great degree, but it is definitely a misunderstood one. In my hometown with a lot of immigrants, there is a DO who wrote "Jack Jones, DO" outside his office. Some people didn't even consider him a "real" doctor when he advertised himself on TV because they didn't know what those unfamiliar initials actually stood for. It was pathetic because he's an amazing physician. How often does the question of one's initials come up in a typical patient interaction? Do a lot of patients ever not see you if your a DO? The DO I shadowed did his best to conceal his initials from the world. He literally never used his initials. Even on his business card it was "Dr. John Smith, Family Medicine". He didn't even sign things with his initials. There were 7 MD docs who all used their initials on everything in the same clinic and only this doctor didnt. He told me that I should go to an MD school for better opportunities and more recognition, but honestly, I want to be a doctor at the end of the day and match into a good residency. If DO can give me that, then I'll do it.

As you can tell I'm very conflicted. I'm most concerned about my first and second point so definitely give me insight into that please.

I did my best not to start an argument and respectfully discuss my concerns. I am grateful for the input.

1. No one really knows the future of DO residency possibilities with the merger, the program directors for old DO programs could still be DO friendly, but we dont know what is really going to happen. But at the end of the day, board scores are the great equilizers from what Ive been seeing. Its on you to push yourself to get a high board score to match to a competitive Internal residency or Anesthesia (which is actually pretty DO friendly).

2.Your stats are great for DO schools, but dont make the mistake of getting into a DO school this cycle, and not accepting and reapplying next year, you will shoot yourself in the foot. Just apply to the higher tier DO schools ( but tiers in DO world dont really exist) and if you get in there without an MD school, go there. A year you loose is another attending salary (200k+) you are missing out!

3. People will give you ****, thats just the name of the game when you go DO unfortunately, just because it is not as well known. DOs are great physicians and everything, but if you care THAT much about what people think and what two letters are after your name, then I suggest you go MD. Regardless in the next couple of years, there will be more and more DO's practicing so itll be fine. The DO i met, an optho is probably the smartest guy Ive ever met, you can honestly do whatever you want if you are smart enough!


Also its still not late for DO schools. Good luck with your decision m8

 

[Kgizzle]

I have a 3.98 cGPA, 3.92 sGPA, 511 MCAT (127,126,126, 132) and decent ECs. I applied to MDs in late June and finished my final secondaries in August. I haven't gotten any good news back yet and I'm concerned. I don't know if I should reapply to MD next cycle and apply DO then too, or if I should apply DO right now this cycle just in case MD doesnt work out. I'm trying to balance the merits of both and was hoping you could help me decide.

I do not plan to start a flame-war or start an MD vs DO debate. This is the not the place for that. If you want a debate, go elsewhere. I've lurked on nearly every MD vs DO thread and it sure ain't pretty. I just need logical and reasonable input about a few concerns I have.

Here are my problems with going DO:

1. The merger may have unpredictable consequences for DO residencies. I want to do anesthesiology or an internal medicine subfellowship, and the fact that "more competitive" MD applicants may apply to former DO-only programs scares me. Is this a likely outcome or am I not being rational?

2. Its getting late in the DO cycle and in case I don't get in to a good DO school this cycle, I don't want to be branded as a DO- reapplicant next cycle. this would hurt me right?

3. This third problem is hard to address, but I'm gonna let it all out. Please don't make fun of me or call me a troll. I'm doing my best not to start a flamewar here while discussing my concerns. So, my family are immigrants from Europe. Where we lived there, an "osteopath" was considered to be a "quack" or a massage-therapist/chiropractor. They also had the degree of DO (but it stood for diplomate of osteopathy). I'm not even kidding when I say they are considered among the least respected jobs over there. And I know that US DOs are "doctors of osteopathic medicine", but still, the term "osteopathic medicine" and "osteopathy" are used interchangeably back in my home country. I've gotten a load of crap from my cousins and friends when I told them I'm thinking about DO. I don't live by the expectations of others, but this still bothers me to a considerable extent. Any pre-DOs who have a similar experience? How did you deal with it?
The DO is a great degree, but it is definitely a misunderstood one. In my hometown with a lot of immigrants, there is a DO who wrote "Jack Jones, DO" outside his office. Some people didn't even consider him a "real" doctor when he advertised himself on TV because they didn't know what those unfamiliar initials actually stood for. It was pathetic because he's an amazing physician. How often does the question of one's initials come up in a typical patient interaction? Do a lot of patients ever not see you if your a DO? The DO I shadowed did his best to conceal his initials from the world. He literally never used his initials. Even on his business card it was "Dr. John Smith, Family Medicine". He didn't even sign things with his initials. There were 7 MD docs who all used their initials on everything in the same clinic and only this doctor didnt. He told me that I should go to an MD school for better opportunities and more recognition, but honestly, I want to be a doctor at the end of the day and match into a good residency. If DO can give me that, then I'll do it.

As you can tell I'm very conflicted. I'm most concerned about my first and second point so definitely give me insight into that please.

I did my best not to start an argument and respectfully discuss my concerns. I am grateful for the input.

Be patient... you'll be fine as long as you were able to show your passion for med school in your apps and you have no major red flags. Keep in mind that this is coming from a person who keeps refreshing their email in hopes of somehow influencing the Gods to give me an II. As for the DO thing, I mean I get. My mom acts that way too. But guess what? At the end of this journey you will have the privilege of helping people in a way so few ever get to. I get that you feel that you may close some doors (which may be true) but you will still get to do what you want.

 

[Wjldenver]

I have a 3.98 cGPA, 3.92 sGPA, 511 MCAT (127,126,126, 132) and decent ECs. I applied to MDs in late June and finished my final secondaries in August. I haven't gotten any good news back yet and I'm concerned. I don't know if I should reapply to MD next cycle and apply DO then too, or if I should apply DO right now this cycle just in case MD doesnt work out. I'm trying to balance the merits of both and was hoping you could help me decide.

I do not plan to start a flame-war or start an MD vs DO debate. This is the not the place for that. If you want a debate, go elsewhere. I've lurked on nearly every MD vs DO thread and it sure ain't pretty. I just need logical and reasonable input about a few concerns I have.

Here are my problems with going DO:

1. The merger may have unpredictable consequences for DO residencies. I want to do anesthesiology or an internal medicine subfellowship, and the fact that "more competitive" MD applicants may apply to former DO-only programs scares me. Is this a likely outcome or am I not being rational?

2. Its getting late in the DO cycle and in case I don't get in to a good DO school this cycle, I don't want to be branded as a DO- reapplicant next cycle. this would hurt me right?

3. This third problem is hard to address, but I'm gonna let it all out. Please don't make fun of me or call me a troll. I'm doing my best not to start a flamewar here while discussing my concerns. So, my family are immigrants from Europe. Where we lived there, an "osteopath" was considered to be a "quack" or a massage-therapist/chiropractor. They also had the degree of DO (but it stood for diplomate of osteopathy). I'm not even kidding when I say they are considered among the least respected jobs over there. And I know that US DOs are "doctors of osteopathic medicine", but still, the term "osteopathic medicine" and "osteopathy" are used interchangeably back in my home country. I've gotten a load of crap from my cousins and friends when I told them I'm thinking about DO. I don't live by the expectations of others, but this still bothers me to a considerable extent. Any pre-DOs who have a similar experience? How did you deal with it?
The DO is a great degree, but it is definitely a misunderstood one. In my hometown with a lot of immigrants, there is a DO who wrote "Jack Jones, DO" outside his office. Some people didn't even consider him a "real" doctor when he advertised himself on TV because they didn't know what those unfamiliar initials actually stood for. It was pathetic because he's an amazing physician. How often does the question of one's initials come up in a typical patient interaction? Do a lot of patients ever not see you if your a DO? The DO I shadowed did his best to conceal his initials from the world. He literally never used his initials. Even on his business card it was "Dr. John Smith, Family Medicine". He didn't even sign things with his initials. There were 7 MD docs who all used their initials on everything in the same clinic and only this doctor didnt. He told me that I should go to an MD school for better opportunities and more recognition, but honestly, I want to be a doctor at the end of the day and match into a good residency. If DO can give me that, then I'll do it.

As you can tell I'm very conflicted. I'm most concerned about my first and second point so definitely give me insight into that please.

I did my best not to start an argument and respectfully discuss my concerns. I am grateful for the input.

Go MD! Even if you have to wait a cycle. I don't believe you indicated how many MD schools you applied to this cycle, but you certainly can be a more strategic applicant the next time around. Strategic in regard to both school selection and the number of apps. I'm thinking around 25 strategic apps. for the next cycle.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Easy. With your stats don't apply DO until next cycle. If you need to reapply, then reapply MD and DO next cycle.

Ignore your family. I learned a while ago that I couldn't let my career decisions be influenced by my father asking me why I didn't apply to "medical schools". Some people just don't get it, nothing on them but they just have a warped view and are kind of stuck in that belief.

 

[Peach Newport]

I don't know what country you're from, but that is not a typical response in the USA. Far from it. If you really want to practice in your hometown, then yeah, don't be a DO. However, I'm pretty sure your family and friends will change their tune when they see you as a successful doctor, though.

You should apply DO because high stats are nowhere near a guarantee of entry to an MD school. Your stats are okay for MD but your MCAT is nowhere near as strong as other applicants. Hold out hope but apply DO also.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Easy. With your stats don't apply DO until next cycle. If you need to reapply, then reapply MD and DO next cycle.

Ignore your family. I learned a while ago that I couldn't let my career decisions be influenced by my father asking me why I didn't apply to "medical schools". Some people just don't get it, nothing on them but they just have a warped view and are kind of stuck in that belief.

Why would your dad ask that? It's real douchey


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[Papa Oso]

OP, as said by many others on SDN: Don't start panicking until you haven't heard anything back by ThanksGiving time. I wouldn't apply to DO unless you really want to. The negative stigma with DO is diminishing and will continue to do so (especially after the merger). HOWEVER, if you want to be a physician, absolutely apply DO. From my experience (mostly ED) they practice medicine very similarly.

 

[lnguyen1412]

To me, it seems your neurotic mind is talking to you. Don't apply DO. If you not getting in MD this cycle, then reapply MD and DO next cycle. It seems too early to say anything about the cycle, and II are not going in chronological orders.

One thing is your family need to understand that they have no influence over what your career in the future is. And don't let them make that decision for you. It's up to you to convince them but honestly, you are going to be a doctor, and you are going to live in USA for the rest of your life and generations to come, so no need to concern about your family in Europe. Just tell them you are a doctor.

 

[Rekt]

How many MD schools did you apply to?

 

[ERinspired]

1- those are not specialties likely to feel much impact from the merger.

2- the DO cycle is longer so it is not late.

3- if you are going to have a personal problem with it, don't do it. As far as your question of anyone notices the initials behind your name, none of the DOs I've ever worked with get asked about it.


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[cliquesh]

Reapply DO and MD next year. Do not apply DO this year.

Being a DO is fine. There are many opportunities available as a DO, but life is easier as a MD.

I'm sure you'll change you mind about specialties, but I'm in anesthesia and its relatively open to DOs.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Why would your dad ask that? It's real douchey


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Nah, he really didn't understand what he was saying. It just stems from ignorance. His best friend is an extremely successful ivory tower MD type and so he has only known MDs. He didn't even know DO existed until I told him.

Interestingly enough it was his friend the ivory tower MD who encouraged me the most to go DO and to not spend money on an SMP.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Nah, he really didn't understand what he was saying. It just stems from ignorance. His best friend is an extremely successful ivory tower MD type and so he has only known MDs. He didn't even know DO existed until I told him.

Interestingly enough it was his friend the ivory tower MD who encouraged me the most to go DO and to not spend money on an SMP.

No I get it, I had to explain to my dad what a DO was too. He didn't know there was a difference until I told him.


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[Goro]

Don't apply DO unless you go through TWO failed MD cycles.

I have a 3.98 cGPA, 3.92 sGPA, 511 MCAT (127,126,126, 132) and decent ECs. I applied to MDs in late June and finished my final secondaries in August. I haven't gotten any good news back yet and I'm concerned. I don't know if I should reapply to MD next cycle and apply DO then too, or if I should apply DO right now this cycle just in case MD doesnt work out. I'm trying to balance the merits of both and was hoping you could help me decide.

I do not plan to start a flame-war or start an MD vs DO debate. This is the not the place for that. If you want a debate, go elsewhere. I've lurked on nearly every MD vs DO thread and it sure ain't pretty. I just need logical and reasonable input about a few concerns I have.

Here are my problems with going DO:

1. The merger may have unpredictable consequences for DO residencies. I want to do anesthesiology or an internal medicine subfellowship, and the fact that "more competitive" MD applicants may apply to former DO-only programs scares me. Is this a likely outcome or am I not being rational?

2. Its getting late in the DO cycle and in case I don't get in to a good DO school this cycle, I don't want to be branded as a DO- reapplicant next cycle. this would hurt me right?

3. This third problem is hard to address, but I'm gonna let it all out. Please don't make fun of me or call me a troll. I'm doing my best not to start a flamewar here while discussing my concerns. So, my family are immigrants from Europe. Where we lived there, an "osteopath" was considered to be a "quack" or a massage-therapist/chiropractor. They also had the degree of DO (but it stood for diplomate of osteopathy). I'm not even kidding when I say they are considered among the least respected jobs over there. And I know that US DOs are "doctors of osteopathic medicine", but still, the term "osteopathic medicine" and "osteopathy" are used interchangeably back in my home country. I've gotten a load of crap from my cousins and friends when I told them I'm thinking about DO. I don't live by the expectations of others, but this still bothers me to a considerable extent. Any pre-DOs who have a similar experience? How did you deal with it?
The DO is a great degree, but it is definitely a misunderstood one. In my hometown with a lot of immigrants, there is a DO who wrote "Jack Jones, DO" outside his office. Some people didn't even consider him a "real" doctor when he advertised himself on TV because they didn't know what those unfamiliar initials actually stood for. It was pathetic because he's an amazing physician. How often does the question of one's initials come up in a typical patient interaction? Do a lot of patients ever not see you if your a DO? The DO I shadowed did his best to conceal his initials from the world. He literally never used his initials. Even on his business card it was "Dr. John Smith, Family Medicine". He didn't even sign things with his initials. There were 7 MD docs who all used their initials on everything in the same clinic and only this doctor didnt. He told me that I should go to an MD school for better opportunities and more recognition, but honestly, I want to be a doctor at the end of the day and match into a good residency. If DO can give me that, then I'll do it.

As you can tell I'm very conflicted. I'm most concerned about my first and second point so definitely give me insight into that please.

I did my best not to start an argument and respectfully discuss my concerns. I am grateful for the input.

 

[holycrap]

Just DO it, get it ? Lolol

 

[Ho0v-man]

Reapply md/do next cycle. If you want a competitive IM subspecialty, DO is a bad idea. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.


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[dwgrubbs1s]

Easy. With your stats don't apply DO until next cycle. If you need to reapply, then reapply MD and DO next cycle.

Ignore your family. I learned a while ago that I couldn't let my career decisions be influenced by my father asking me why I didn't apply to "medical schools". Some people just don't get it, nothing on them but they just have a warped view and are kind of stuck in that belief.

Is your father an MD? Many people don't get osteopathic medical schools. (or medical school in general). When I explain to people I am applying to osteopathic medical schools I get a range of responses from "So your going to be a bone pharmacist?" to "Is that like nursing school?". However, the world's brightest people do not reside in my area. When I just started saying that I am applying to medical schools (to avoid any confusion), people would still look at me confused and ask questions like, "So that means...?". Eventually I had to just dumb it down, I am applying to become a doctor. They understood at that point. But then they would ask "So your going to become a surgeon?". Moral of story, people are stupid.

 

[cliquesh]

Reapply md/do next cycle. If you want a competitive IM subsalty, DO is a bad idea. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.


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Nrmp match data from 2011 shows that 2/3 of DOs applying to cardiology or heme/onc match, which isnt great but isnt terrible either. However, only 1/3 matched GI.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Reapply md/do next cycle. If you want a competitive IM subspecialty, DO is a bad idea. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.


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Bad idea In general? I call Bullsh*t.

Bad idea for OP? Certainly. If he applied smart he shouldn't have to reapply at all


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[Ho0v-man]

Nrmp match data from 2011 shows that 2/3 of DOs applying to cardiology or heme/onc match, which isnt great but isnt terrible either. However, only 1/3 matched GI.

Bad idea In general? I call Bullsh*t.

Bad idea for OP? Certainly. If he applied smart he shouldn't have to reapply at all


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If you don't get into a university IM program, its crazy tough to get one of those competitive fellowships. DOs have to be rockstars to get into a decent university IM program whereas MDs just have to show up.




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[deleted707454]

Is your father an MD? Many people don't get osteopathic medical schools. (or medical school in general). When I explain to people I am applying to osteopathic medical schools I get a range of responses from "So your going to be a bone pharmacist?" to "Is that like nursing school?". However, the world's brightest people do not reside in my area. When I just started saying that I am applying to medical schools (to avoid any confusion), people would still look at me confused and ask questions like, "So that means...?". Eventually I had to just dumb it down, I am applying to become a doctor. They understood at that point. But then they would ask "So your going to become a surgeon?". Moral of story, people are stupid.

haha THIS!! I get the same responses. Had someone ask the other day, "so what kind of job can you get after medical school?" Truckdriver, of course.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

haha THIS!! I get the same responses. Had someone ask the other day, "so what kind of job can you get after medical school?" Truckdriver, of course.

My favorite thing I've ever read on SDN was a post about how this girl was accepted to a DO school and told her grandma. Her grandma replied "it's okay honey. There is nothing wrong with becoming a nurse. Maybe one day when you can handle the classes you can go to real medical school."

I laughed so freaking hard


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[ATPsynthase123]

If you don't get into a university IM program, its crazy tough to get one of those competitive fellowships. DOs have to be rockstars to get into a decent university IM program whereas MDs just have to show up.




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Just do well on your boards and be successful in your clinical years. The same goes for MD. University IM programs don't immediately drop their panties, and ignore poor board scores or bad clinical grades at the sight of an MD degree and say "oh your an MD? Your in!"

You have to be successful. Period. No one gets a free pass because they have an MD.


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[Rajayray2019]

You want to be a doctor so you should apply broadly to better your chances. DO philosophy makes sense to me, I'm happy I made the choice. The reality is that medical school is medical school is medical school.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Just do well on your boards and be successful in your clinical years. The same goes for MD. University IM programs don't immediately drop their panties, and ignore poor board scores or bad clinical grades at the sight of an MD degree and say "oh your an MD? Your in!"

You have to be successful. Period. No one gets a free pass because they have an MD.


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Not trying to be a jerk here or anything, but you are in fact incorrect.

You're right about one thing though. They aren't saying "Wow! You're an MD!" It's expected that MDs apply. But what they are saying is "Oh...you're a DO...". Go look at the match list thread and see how many university IM matches there are. Then look again to see how many are actually at a university and not some community program affiliated with it.

You can absolutely achieve almost any specialty if you go to a DO school. But it's a crazy uphill battle. If you wouldn't be happy going to a community based primary care residency, don't apply DO. Everyone assumes they can just "work hard" and it'll be fine. Its not undergrad. Everyone's gonna work hard.

Every starry eyed premed thinks they'll be the exception that proves the rule and not the rule. Assume you'll be the rule. After all, it's a rule for a reason.

Edit: my rant was inadvertently redundant.


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[MADD!!!]

Not trying to be a jerk here or anything, but you are in fact incorrect.

You're right about one thing though. They aren't saying "Wow! You're an MD!" It's expected that MDs apply. But what they are saying is "Oh...you're a DO...". Go look at the match list thread and see how many university IM matches there are. Then look again to see how many are actually at a university and not some community program affiliated with it.

You can absolutely achieve almost any specialty if you go to a DO school. But it's a crazy uphill battle. If you wouldn't be happy going to a community based primary care residency, don't apply DO. Everyone assumes they can just "work hard" and it'll be fine. Its not undergrad. Everyone's gonna work hard.

Every starry eyed premed thinks they'll be the exception that proves the rule and not the rule. Assume you'll be the rule. After all, it's a rule for a reason.

Edit: my rant was inadvertently redundant.


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Loll. Ok so before I start, please tell me which fellowships you're categorizing as the super competitive ones so I can show you facts on them.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Is your father an MD? Many people don't get osteopathic medical schools. (or medical school in general). When I explain to people I am applying to osteopathic medical schools I get a range of responses from "So your going to be a bone pharmacist?" to "Is that like nursing school?". However, the world's brightest people do not reside in my area. When I just started saying that I am applying to medical schools (to avoid any confusion), people would still look at me confused and ask questions like, "So that means...?". Eventually I had to just dumb it down, I am applying to become a doctor. They understood at that point. But then they would ask "So your going to become a surgeon?". Moral of story, people are stupid.

That's so funny, I get the same thing from every person that asks unless I run into someone who happens to have a family member in the process.

No he doesn't do anything related to medicine. I think that's a big factor in that his only experience with medical school is his friend who is the definition of elite. It really doesn't bug me because he is just trying to find a common ground in something he understands. I'm pretty sure he'll get it at the white coat ceremony though

 

[VolibearMain]

Is your father an MD? Many people don't get osteopathic medical schools. (or medical school in general). When I explain to people I am applying to osteopathic medical schools I get a range of responses from "So your going to be a bone pharmacist?" to "Is that like nursing school?". However, the world's brightest people do not reside in my area. When I just started saying that I am applying to medical schools (to avoid any confusion), people would still look at me confused and ask questions like, "So that means...?". Eventually I had to just dumb it down, I am applying to become a doctor. They understood at that point. But then they would ask "So your going to become a surgeon?". Moral of story, people are stupid.

Interviewed for Western University's DO program a few days ago, and my Uber driver literally asked me after I told him Im going for medical school interviews, "so youre going to become a doctor? "

 

[lnguyen1412]

Apparently all ppl on here are aiming for competitive fellowships lol...
On the other hand, I'm sitting here just want to be a doctor in general.

 

[VolibearMain]

Apparently all ppl on here are aiming for competitive fellowships lol...
On the other hand, I'm sitting here just want to be a doctor in general.

Some future planning is required. I could never see myself being a family medicine physician. Internal medicine for the most part yes, surgery definitely yes. The fellowships are not as ridiculously competitive as people say thought. I am pretty sure Cards is a competitive specialty, and almost every card (that I know/anecdotal), went to school in India, China, etc (foreign grad), or a DO school, did their residency at community programs, and are doing just fine as interventional and non-interventional cardiologists.

 

[Mr. D.O.five]

Not trying to be a jerk here or anything, but you are in fact incorrect.

You're right about one thing though. They aren't saying "Wow! You're an MD!" It's expected that MDs apply. But what they are saying is "Oh...you're a DO...". Go look at the match list thread and see how many university IM matches there are. Then look again to see how many are actually at a university and not some community program affiliated with it.

You can absolutely achieve almost any specialty if you go to a DO school. But it's a crazy uphill battle. If you wouldn't be happy going to a community based primary care residency, don't apply DO. Everyone assumes they can just "work hard" and it'll be fine. Its not undergrad. Everyone's gonna work hard.

Every starry eyed premed thinks they'll be the exception that proves the rule and not the rule. Assume you'll be the rule. After all, it's a rule for a reason.

Edit: my rant was inadvertently redundant.


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http://cdn.agilitycms.com/kansas-city-university/Attachments/residency/Match2016.pdf

I'd say there are a decent amount in IM going to university residencies, along with other specialties. Also, you have to take into account that NOT everyone would want to go to a university residency. Take into account that some (or even a good amount) went DO for the purpose of primary and community based care. Not everyone is a gunner DO that wants to be above the norm.

 

[deleted707454]

All of the DO physicians and students I've met have been very normal, personable people. Many MD physicians and students, too. However, many of the MD crew have also been insufferable to be around. My exposure is limited, but these interactions have definitely made an impact on my school decisions.

 

[ortnakas]

Which will you regret more?

If you'd regret not being a physician at all more than not being a specialist/MD-- apply DO.

If it's more important to you to pursue a subspecialty and have the prestige that comes with the MD in your home town/country-- apply MD only. (For full disclosure, this isn't what I picked, but I understand why some choose this option)

 

[Ho0v-man]

http://cdn.agilitycms.com/kansas-city-university/Attachments/residency/Match2016.pdf

I'd say there are a decent amount in IM going to university residencies, along with other specialties. Also, you have to take into account that NOT everyone would want to go to a university residency. Take into account that some (or even a good amount) went DO for the purpose of primary and community based care. Not everyone is a gunner DO that wants to be above the norm.

Kcu is one of the"top" DO schools and according to the list that you just posted about 1/6 match at university IM programs. You realize you're proving my point, right?

I agree that not everyone wants to go to university IM. I know I don't. But the OP does. That's why I made my original post. I don't know why all of you are getting so upset about this. I'm going DO too. I know you can be a great doctor no matter which route you go. But there are limitations. The OP clearly wouldn't be okay with that.


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[MADD!!!]

@Ho0v-man

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Results-and-Data-SMS-2016_Final.pdf

refer to page 6 & 10 for IM subspecialties. For example, Cardiology had 479 U.S. MD applicants for 844 positions. Even more surprising, out of the remaining positions, 250 of them were taken by NON-U.S. IMG's!!! What does that mean? For the most part no one else filled them up so the programs depend on these applicants to fill those seats. Don't get me wrong, the fellowships are still competitive in the sense that they're not willing to take a crappy applicant. BUT, as long as you have average board scores (equivalent to an MD counterpart) and can show the same competencies, you're set. Now, applicants of DO schools as a whole do tend to be less competitive on average compared to MD students, so their performance in med school may not be as impressive. So that's where this stigma comes in that going to DO school will inhibit your chances. My argument is that it's you that ultimately determines your fate.

To elaborate on one point I touched, the fellowships will not take an applicant, MD or DO, who is a poor applicant. They'd rather have an empty seat than have it be filled with an unqualified applicant. So as long as you meet the general requirements, you should be good.

There's more I could talk about but no one's gonna read it, loll.

 

[Wjldenver]

You're right about one thing though. They aren't saying "Wow! You're an MD!" It's expected that MDs apply. But what they are saying is "Oh...you're a DO...". Go look at the match list thread and see how many university IM matches there are. Then look again to see how many are actually at a university and not some community program affiliated with it.

You can absolutely achieve almost any specialty if you go to a DO school. But it's a crazy uphill battle. If you wouldn't be happy going to a community based primary care residency, don't apply DO. Everyone assumes they can just "work hard" and it'll be fine. Its not undergrad. Everyone's gonna work hard.

Every starry eyed premed thinks they'll be the exception that proves the rule and not the rule. Assume you'll be the rule. After all, it's a rule for a reason.

This is one of the most cogent posts I've seen on the DO forum in a while.

 

[Ho0v-man]

@Ho0v-man

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Results-and-Data-SMS-2016_Final.pdf

refer to page 6 & 10 for IM subspecialties. For example, Cardiology had 479 U.S. MD applicants for 844 positions. Even more surprising, out of the remaining positions, 250 of them were taken by NON-U.S. IMG's!!! What does that mean? For the most part no one else filled them up so the programs depend on these applicants to fill those seats. Don't get me wrong, the fellowships are still competitive in the sense that they're not willing to take a crappy applicant. BUT, as long as you have average board scores (equivalent to an MD counterpart) and can show the same competencies, you're set. Now, applicants of DO schools as a whole do tend to be less competitive on average compared to MD students, so their performance in med school may not be as impressive. So that's where this stigma comes in that going to DO school will inhibit your chances. My argument is that it's you that ultimately determines your fate.

To elaborate on one point I touched, the fellowships will not take an applicant, MD or DO, who is a poor applicant. They'd rather have an empty seat than have it be filled with an unqualified applicant. So as long as you meet the general requirements, you should be good.

There's more I could talk about but no one's gonna read it, loll.

It seems you'll have to learn this lesson the hard way.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

I could never see myself being a family medicine physician. Internal medicine for the most part yes, surgery definitely yes.

You are making a big mistake going to a DO school then, it's that simple.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

You are making a big mistake going to a DO school then, it's that simple.

Because everyone knows filthy pleb DOs are only allowed into Family Medicine.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

Because everyone knows filthy pleb DOs are only allowed into Family Medicine.


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No but going into a DO school saying you can't see yourself doing it is stupid. @Ho0v-man apparently us going to a DO school means nothing and we are just haterz because we are cognizant of the truth of our limitations.

 

[lnguyen1412]

I'll already see myself become a community physician after reading all of you guys posts haha. You guys choosing DO route need to be aware of : "There is a limit to our (not abilities) but opportunities to become specialist. It's entirely possible, but you need to prove yourself. To me, IM & Peds are my choice of career that I'm interested in, and I love primary care, and I also don't see myself as a specialists in the future. In addition, I realize my abilities are not competitive for MD school, so I chose DO and that fit me.
You pre-med needs to stop being neurotic and do a self-reflection on your own and ask yourself "What is your ULTIMATE GOAL in life?". From that, pick either DO or MD and fight for it till the end.

 

[Ho0v-man]

No but going into a DO school saying you can't see yourself doing it is stupid. @Ho0v-man apparently us going to a DO school means nothing and we are just haterz because we are cognizant of the truth of our limitations.

Glad to know I'm not taking crazy pills.

I'm not saying the bias is always fair, I'm just saying it's real.


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[VolibearMain]

You are making a big mistake going to a DO school then, it's that simple.

Thats not true at all. Tons and tons of DO students match into internal medicine.

 

[lnguyen1412]

Thats not true at all. Tons and tons of DO students match into internal medicine.

AnatomyGrey thought you absolutely want to go surgery!!!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

AnatomyGrey thought you absolutely want to go surgery!!!

Thats not true at all. Tons and tons of DO students match into internal medicine.

Aye, I read too fast and only saw the surgery statement, see above. But if you want a competitive IM sub then it is much more difficult than just matching any IM program.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

No but going into a DO school saying you can't see yourself doing it is stupid. @Ho0v-man apparently us going to a DO school means nothing and we are just haterz because we are cognizant of the truth of our limitations.

Obviously not everyone will get to live out their super special Ortho dreams, but if you work your butt of in clinical rotations and do well on your boards, you bet your ass that you have a good shot at academic IM, surgery and chances at specializing. Saying that attending a DO school limits you to FM or low quality community IM regardless of academic and clinical performance is ignorant, misinformed and plain wrong.


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