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AnatomyGrey12
And it is something I have never said and will never say. Go read my post again.
don't know if I should apply DO. Please convince me that I should or shouldn't
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And it is something I have never said and will never say. Go read my post again.
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In the grand scheme of things, its harder to get into an MD school these days than to get an IM residency from a DO school.
There for I chose to apply DO.
It isn't impossible to get a sub-specialty if you keep your options open but agreed it makes it a little bit harder.
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No but looking at ANY DO school match list should give you the hint that it's about a 50% chance of community based primary care. Don't give me that crap that ALL of them wanted it either. There was recently a report that said just the opposite.
The DO degree is great for nontrads who just want to get it over with or people who are genuinely interested in primary care. I'm very glad that it exists because I'm already going to be in my mid 30s when I graduate.
But to all of you 22-23 y/o gunners who are just afraid of retaking the big bad mcat:
Don't apply. You'll just end up with a chip on your shoulder.
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Did you pick a DO program over an MD program? I doubt it. The DO degree is a fall back option since you did not have the stats, and your career options will not be the same as a MD degree holder either. Do an SMP and/or retake the MCAT because apparently you will regret your future career choices as a DO. What did Hoov-Man say, "I guess you will need to learn the hard way."
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I go based on the facts and objective data presented to me, not opinions. Many of those community IM programs have their own associated fellowships (the AOA fellowships that only DO students can apply to). If you add up the numbers of DO students in IM sub specialties in both AOA and ACGME, AND compare it to the relative number of DO graduates per year parallel to total MD graduates per year to how many of them got into IM programs, the results are about similar if not more DO's in sub specialties.
From what I found, MD's have a more complicated network of fellowships to pursue, like "gynecologic oncology" or "interventional radiology" that DO's don't even have in AOA as far as I know. Not only that, but there are fellowships on top of fellowships as well.
For this reason, I'd recommend MD over DO if you want to be a unique specialist in a niche field of medicine. Some MD's do crazy things like literally reattaching a mans hand, with every vein artery and nerve, back to a persons hand and restore its function. Or liver transplsnt surgeries ((not sure if I've heard a DO in this field or not, if so then very rare).
Basic story, there's a lot more to medicine in the MD world to offer. So if you're into that, go MD. Loll
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AnatomyGrey12
True that. If you have the MCAT though then I suggest doing an SMP unless you have a family and other considerations. I know if I didn't have kids and a family then I would be applying to SMPs. But in the end I don't care enough and figure that if I can't make myself competitive for something as a DO then I probably wouldn't get it as an MD either.
That's because transplant surgery sucks, it's one of the worst lifestyles in medicine. It is a fellowship easily persued after a general surgery residency though. If you go GS then transplant isn't hard to get, kind of like trauma
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Exactly, my point is that people who pursue DO are generally not even interested in these things . As opposed to some MD super geniuses, haha. Btw the lifestyle of a cardiologist is pretty brutal too as far as I've heard.
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I never said I wanted to do super competitive specialties. My entire goal for attending medical school is to do rural or community IM. And yes, absolutely I would choose a DO program over an MD program if the DO program made me happier than the MD would. I would not attend a school I didn't enjoy or didn't feel accepted me because of the "prestige" an MD would bring.
The point is that saying DOs do not have the same career opportunities is ridiculous, misinformed, and foolish.
For reference I did a quick google search, and within an hour of me there are 38DO physicians. Of that group, roughly half are in specialties that you claim DOs are unable to become. So yeah, it's tough, and a little harder for DOs than MDs, but don't try and feed people defeatist Bullsh*t about how DOs cant place in competitive specialties because of their degree. This many DO specialists in a rural area with a physician shortage is no fluke.
If you get into a competitive specialty/subspecialty, it's because of your own merit. Not whether you are an MD or a DO.
Numbers of specialists for reference:
General Surgery- 3
Critical care- 4
Radiology- 2
Orthopedics- 3
Pathology- 2
Derm- 1
Plastics- 1
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The whole post, high scores, a few anecdotal accounts on OPs part, tied in with the username and avatar pic lead me to suspect that this is in fact a troll.
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I'm beginning to understand why meat tornado is so brutal sometimes.
OP, please compare match lists of any DO school to any MD school if you want to see how frequently DOs specialize. Keep in mind that specializing as DO will become harder post-merger. Best of luck to you in whatever you choose. DO is great, but go in with realistic expectations.
To everyone else, enjoy trying to out compete people who already outcompeted you once for med school admissions.
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OP, please compare match lists of any DO school to any MD school if you want to see how frequently DOs specialize. Keep in mind that specializing as DO will become harder post-merger. Best of luck to you in whatever you choose. DO is great, but go in with realistic expectations.
To everyone else, enjoy trying to out compete people who already outcompeted you once for med school admissions.
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Meanwhile, 50% of our DO class specializes. Of the other 50% that don't, how many of them are forced into their primary care field? 10%? 20%? I don't know, but definitely not the majority of them. It's honestly not that difficult to do well, study hard, get a decent board score, seek out good experiences/LOR and match in a specialty. Yes, it's hard work, but its totally possible. Look at the charting outcomes for DO's who land in their specialty of choice.
Also, you have no idea if matching will become harder for DO's across all fields. No one does. You shouldn't make general statements like that, particularly in medicine.
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wow, what have I done? I didn't think I would start a flamewar. But I'm grateful for your help!
FYI, for those who asked, I applied to 33 MD schools and I've been complete for a few months. And no, my avatar and username doesnt make me a troll. It just makes me confused. You guys have furry animals, cartoon characters, and question marks as your avatar pictures for gods sake and I aint complaining. And my stats are real, believe it or don't. But Blessed are those who believe
FYI, for those who asked, I applied to 33 MD schools and I've been complete for a few months. And no, my avatar and username doesnt make me a troll. It just makes me confused. You guys have furry animals, cartoon characters, and question marks as your avatar pictures for gods sake and I aint complaining. And my stats are real, believe it or don't. But Blessed are those who believe
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Don't argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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Apparently furry animals and cartoon characters are indications of trolling lol.
Anyway, back to the original question, don't apply DO, apply next cycle if you don't get into MD.
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K the "Blessed are those believe part" was a joke. Don't take it too seriously. We need to lighten up after the battle that took place on this thread today
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Yeah, this thread got derailed so far I actually forgot what the original post was. OP is a level 100 master troll
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OP is gaining troll powerz for every page this generates.
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Thats a thread id tots follow.
I love these kinds of threads, i get my daily dose of optimism, pessimism, and realism all in one thread!
OP as others have mentioned stick to MD for this year, then if you have to reapply MD & DO next year.
In reference to earlier posts, is there data on what specialty 2nd and 3rd year med students want to go into vs what they match into? Id be very interested in an in depth version of that, MD & DO schools, specific schools, 2nd to 3rd year specialty goal change (whether they changed their mind based on rotations or board scores), and then where they actually end up matching. And if there isnt, someone get started on that asap and check back in here in a couple years thx.
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I wish I could gain II powerz instead. To be honest, I don't know why schools are ignoring me. I applied strategically I think, but 2 of them rejected me so far, a few generic holds or "pools", and silence from 28 of them. Was my personal statement really that ugly? Did I look like the Medusa in my secondary photo? Did they turn to stone before clicking the "Invite applicant to Interview" icon?
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Wish I could neg you, OP.
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pepper thy angus with the neg train
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There are a ton of people at my school who chose DO over MD, a good chunk of the last graduating class matched into IM and surgery, we had a few ortho matches and two plastics matches, 10-15 anesthesia matches, and people are friendly and want to collaborate here. I don't see any downside.
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Wading through yet another dumpster fire of a DO vs. MD thread was worth it for this. Bone. Pharmacist. My toppest of keks to you, friend. I would never have married a nurse had I known I could have landed a bone pharmacist instead.
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I got accepted into an MD, DO, and Law School. I dont know which way the circle jerk flows anymore. Plz send help.
OP, you should just apply for PA because everyone knows postmerger they will be master race with the best pay and lifestyle.
OP, you should just apply for PA because everyone knows postmerger they will be master race with the best pay and lifestyle.
do you mind sharing what school?
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They are just as good as a bone doctor or a real pharmacist. They actually care about patients as a whole and aren't in it just for money like evil surgeons that get paid by drug companies.
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Depends on which law school. A TTT is jerking you off, but a T14...well they're still jerking you off, but at least you won't get an STI.
Probably.
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Why do you say this? Do other schools know if you turn down an acceptance?
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AnatomyGrey12
Every secondary I filled out asked if I had previously been accepted to medical school.
D.O. or MD secondaries?
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AnatomyGrey12
Both
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Don't go to medical school. Seriously. Trust me on that. We will be competing with nurses for work by the time you finish residency. It is not pretty
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Med school sucks major butt. I wouldn't do it if I were you.
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PS..
do not go DO with those stats.
Seriously.
Apply all MD. Save yourself the hassle of not having to learn OPP which you will never use... ever.
Match into something else other than primary care.
do not go DO with those stats.
Seriously.
Apply all MD. Save yourself the hassle of not having to learn OPP which you will never use... ever.
Match into something else other than primary care.
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So this is probably a moot point now but there are two things that somehow didn't get mentioned yet that should be noted for prosperity.
1 - Because "osteopathy" is a quack profession in many European countries, it can be difficult to get a job in an European country as a physician. I personally know several DOs who have worked in Europe and they had to jump through some extra hoops and explain that DO and MD training is essentially equivalent in the States and submit USMLE scores and demonstrate that they completed residency training alongside MDs. Sometimes this is enough and you get the job and sometimes DO is still DO at the end of the day and you don't get to be a "doctor" in Europe.
2 - OMM is going to take up a significant amount of your time in medical school. If you do not like it I would definitely recommend that you NOT go to an osteopathic medical school. The course lasts the whole length of the first two years and then there are a few required OMM rotations in third or fourth year, depending on your school. Plus it's involved in about 20% of the COMLEX questions. A question about ear infections or appendicitis can involve OMM. You never get away from it. There is a lot of work and time dedicated to learning OMM which will essentially be wasted if you don't like it or don't plan to use it in your practice. That time could be better spent learning about other things or interests of yours.
That being said, I personally love OMM and don't mind all the time devoted to it and don't plan on moving to Europe and love primary care. So, I'm glad I went to DO school. It is incredibly satisfying to take someone in pain and instantly fix them with an OMM technique.
1 - Because "osteopathy" is a quack profession in many European countries, it can be difficult to get a job in an European country as a physician. I personally know several DOs who have worked in Europe and they had to jump through some extra hoops and explain that DO and MD training is essentially equivalent in the States and submit USMLE scores and demonstrate that they completed residency training alongside MDs. Sometimes this is enough and you get the job and sometimes DO is still DO at the end of the day and you don't get to be a "doctor" in Europe.
2 - OMM is going to take up a significant amount of your time in medical school. If you do not like it I would definitely recommend that you NOT go to an osteopathic medical school. The course lasts the whole length of the first two years and then there are a few required OMM rotations in third or fourth year, depending on your school. Plus it's involved in about 20% of the COMLEX questions. A question about ear infections or appendicitis can involve OMM. You never get away from it. There is a lot of work and time dedicated to learning OMM which will essentially be wasted if you don't like it or don't plan to use it in your practice. That time could be better spent learning about other things or interests of yours.
That being said, I personally love OMM and don't mind all the time devoted to it and don't plan on moving to Europe and love primary care. So, I'm glad I went to DO school. It is incredibly satisfying to take someone in pain and instantly fix them with an OMM technique.
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