Don't you just hate it when...

[jillzhou]

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you spend hours on finishing your lab report while some of your peers get hold of the lab reports from upperclassmen and just copy them? I was told in college this stuff doesn't work, only hard working students get through..clearly not. this is just shows you can totally cheat your way into medical school. (considering you get around that MCAT)

 

[desi0chick]

ofcourse you can cheat your way through college, but hopefully the MCAT will teach them a a good lesson 😉

 

[Nattydread]

ofcourse you can cheat your way through college, but hopefully the MCAT will teach them a a good lesson 😉

You can hope. However, if you have a really high GPA, you don't really need a super high MCAT score to get accepted. I had a roommate with a 4.0 GPA and 25 on the MCAT, who got into an MD program. Not saying that she cheated but using her scores as an example.

 

[JonnyL]

Don't worry too much about them. Those who cheat are likely to do it again and it's only a matter of time til it bites them back in the ass.

 

[BenjaminT]

Usually cheating on a few lab reports doesn't equal an A in the class anyway since the tests are worth more. However, if somebody did find a way to cheat on every quiz, lab report, and test and get through 120 hours to graduate with a bachelor's of science and a 4.0 gpa while not learning a damn thing...you have to admit they earned it.

 

[mmmcdowe]

you spend hours on finishing your lab report while some of your peers get hold of the lab reports from upperclassmen and just copy them? I was told in college this stuff doesn't work, only hard working students get through..clearly not. this is just shows you can totally cheat your way into medical school. (considering you get around that MCAT)

No, mine are better.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not condoning cheating, but that's their deal. However the self-righteous crap about cheaters getting no where and all that jazz is really heuristic and borderline delusional.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

you spend hours on finishing your lab report while some of your peers get hold of the lab reports from upperclassmen and just copy them? I was told in college this stuff doesn't work, only hard working students get through..clearly not. this is just shows you can totally cheat your way into medical school. (considering you get around that MCAT)

Make friends with some upperclassmen.

 

[Narmerguy]

People cheat in the real world too, I'm afraid.

 

[Bravetown]

+ haters gonna hate

 

[Malice]

Usually cheating on a few lab reports doesn't equal an A in the class anyway since the tests are worth more. However, if somebody did find a way to cheat on every quiz, lab report, and test and get through 120 hours to graduate with a bachelor's of science and a 4.0 gpa while not learning a damn thing...you have to admit they earned it.

👍 +1

 

[Musclemass]

I was told in college this stuff doesn't work, only hard working students get through..

Cheaters are gonna cheat, it's not worth worrying about. But being just hard working shouldn't be anyone's first choice.

In my experience, people who have some combination of being smart, resourceful, lucky, and insightful beat the hard working grinders every time. The grinders only know how to grind, and often that won't work.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Cheaters are gonna cheat, it's not worth worrying about. But being just hard working shouldn't be anyone's first choice.

In my experience, people who have some combination of being smart, resourceful, lucky, and insightful beat the hard working grinders every time. The grinders only know how to grind, and often that won't work.

OP could be smart and resourceful by anonymously reporting this BS.

 

[eli20]

Agreed, if you care that much turn them in. Professors aren't parents and they are too busy to look into this stuff all the time, give them the hint.

 

[Slack3r]

ofcourse you can cheat your way through college, but hopefully the MCAT will teach them a a good lesson 😉

Not doing lab reports hardly has any bearing on the MCAT. I found labs to be mostly useless busy work. While I did my own lab reports, I've had quite a few friends and siblings benefit from my old lab reports.

 

[Chamahk]

Not doing lab reports hardly has any bearing on the MCAT. I found labs to be mostly useless busy work. While I did my own lab reports, I've had quite a few friends and siblings benefit from my old lab reports.

👍

 

[gettheleadout]

OP could be smart and resourceful by anonymously reporting this BS.

This.

 

[CoolWhipp]

ofcourse you can cheat your way through college, but hopefully the MCAT will teach them a a good lesson 😉

What are you talking about? Cheating gives them extra time to study on the MCAT =].

 

[getdown]

you spend hours on finishing your lab report while some of your peers get hold of the lab reports from upperclassmen and just copy them? I was told in college this stuff doesn't work, only hard working students get through..clearly not. this is just shows you can totally cheat your way into medical school. (considering you get around that MCAT)

Welcome to the real world my friend. Being resourceful and having connections sometimes counts more than just working hard. You think everyone in high positions ended up there because of solely their hard work? Connections are important. I can't begin to tell you how many stories I've heard of people getting into their choice residencies because of one phone call from a prominent faculty/doctor/specialist in the field regardless of their stats. My personal philosophy is to work hard while also keeping an eye out for any opportunities to maximize my own success. Moral victories don't count much when you end up with ****.

 

[patel2]

Welcome to the real world my friend. Being resourceful and having connections sometimes counts more than just working hard. You think everyone in high positions ended up there because of solely their hard work? Connections are important. I can't begin to tell you how many stories I've heard of people getting into their choice residencies because of one phone call from a prominent faculty/doctor/specialist in the field regardless of their stats. My personal philosophy is to work hard while also keeping an eye out for any opportunities to maximize my own success. Moral victories don't count much when you end up with ****.

But cheating is infinitely different than having good connections. Having good connections is a valuable asset and something a person should aspire to (i.e. taking advantage of opps to network, being social, likeable etc.), while cheating is for d-bags.

 

[getdown]

But cheating is infinitely different than having good connections. Having good connections is a valuable asset and something a person should aspire to (i.e. taking advantage of opps to network, being social, likeable etc.), while cheating is for d-bags.

Alright, let's play a little devil's advocate. You say having connections is good and something one should aspire to, but cheating is bad. So how is attaining a position one doesn't deserve over a more qualified applicant based on "knowing the right people" any different than getting a good grade by copying someone else's work? Both people used means other than their own capability to acquire something they don't deserve. Like I said, someone who wanted to do ortho was able to get into a well regarded ortho program despite mediocre grades because of a personal call placed on his behalf by a PD or other influential person. Wouldn't someone with a 260 STEP score who didn't get into that same program consider this other person as "cheating"? One may be more subtle than the other but just because it's socially more acceptable doesn't make it more or less right. But my point remains, cheating/connections/whatever you want to call it are different shades of the same color and is a fact of life. Being self righteous doesn't do you any good.

 

[BJJ]

Usually cheating on a few lab reports doesn't equal an A in the class anyway since the tests are worth more. However, if somebody did find a way to cheat on every quiz, lab report, and test and get through 120 hours to graduate with a bachelor's of science and a 4.0 gpa while not learning a damn thing...you have to admit they earned it.

hahahahah.

If you cheat through undergrad, mcat, medschool, USMLEs you will get a patient that sues your ass when you don't come up with an obvious treatment because you probably cheated on that part in med school

 

[13132]

It really does irritate me. Usually I spend 12-15 hours on a lab report. That is time I could spend studying for other things or...having a social life or relaxing! So ya it sucks beyond belief.

I also don't like when old exams get passed around. I am sure we all understand that it REALLY helps to know what a prof is likely to ask and focus on. You can study well but still be taken by surprise on a few things.

 

[fullset]

Most of the professors I had posted their old tests and quizzes on their website. Obviously they didn't have the same tests. It was more for practice and it did help to do them.

 

[13132]

Yeah I have had that before, but this class I'm in now doesn't do it. Otherwise I really wouldn't be upset. I mean seeing how they actually mark off and grade stuff is slightly helpful, but not enough to change your fate lol.

 

[Kaustikos]

hahahahah.

If you cheat through undergrad, mcat, medschool, USMLEs you will get a patient that sues your ass when you don't come up with an obvious treatment because you probably cheated on that part in med school

woah woah woah woah - If the person can successfully cheat through ALL THAT, I'd be surprised if they didn't cheat their way through the lawsuit. So, yeah...

 

[raltima07]

It really does irritate me. Usually I spend 12-15 hours on a lab report. That is time I could spend studying for other things or...having a social life or relaxing! So ya it sucks beyond belief.

I also don't like when old exams get passed around. I am sure we all understand that it REALLY helps to know what a prof is likely to ask and focus on. You can study well but still be taken by surprise on a few things.

Knowing the type of questions is half the battle

 

[Slack3r]

It really does irritate me. Usually I spend 12-15 hours on a lab report.

 

[wanderer]

People cheat through life. Depending on the school you can get near a 4.0 without doing that much work, if you always pick the easy professors and/or cheat whenever necessary. When it comes time for the MCAT you can study a ton to at least get in the high 20s or maybe break a 30. With those numbers and solid ECs those people will likely get into MD schools and if not that then surely some DO schools. Those people don't even have to do a ton of ECs because they'll lie/exaggerate about them on the application and on interviews. They'll probably be so used to lying that it would be hard for interviewers to tell they're lying. My hope is that these people don't exist, but I'm sure there are a few of these people at various schools. Actually there are probably several more people at a lot of these schools that worked a fraction of what other people did, but they got in because of connections/legacy. Perhaps they never did anything unethical, but they still have an unfair advantage relative to the population.

Bottom line - Life isn't fair. I know it might be hard to do, but try not to think about others. Most of the cheaters do get screened out sooner or later, but there will always be a few that make it through.

 

[circulus vitios]

ofcourse you can cheat your way through college, but hopefully the MCAT will teach them a a good lesson 😉

I doubt it considering labs and lab reports are all busy work.

 

[juliedi]

Alright, let's play a little devil's advocate. You say having connections is good and something one should aspire to, but cheating is bad. So how is attaining a position one doesn't deserve over a more qualified applicant based on "knowing the right people" any different than getting a good grade by copying someone else's work? Both people used means other than their own capability to acquire something they don't deserve. Like I said, someone who wanted to do ortho was able to get into a well regarded ortho program despite mediocre grades because of a personal call placed on his behalf by a PD or other influential person. Wouldn't someone with a 260 STEP score who didn't get into that same program consider this other person as "cheating"? One may be more subtle than the other but just because it's socially more acceptable doesn't make it more or less right. But my point remains, cheating/connections/whatever you want to call it are different shades of the same color and is a fact of life. Being self righteous doesn't do you any good.

Because one is usually explicitly prohibited in a school's student code of conduct, and one is not.

 

[wanderer]

Alright, let's play a little devil's advocate. You say having connections is good and something one should aspire to, but cheating is bad. So how is attaining a position one doesn't deserve over a more qualified applicant based on "knowing the right people" any different than getting a good grade by copying someone else's work? Both people used means other than their own capability to acquire something they don't deserve. Like I said, someone who wanted to do ortho was able to get into a well regarded ortho program despite mediocre grades because of a personal call placed on his behalf by a PD or other influential person. Wouldn't someone with a 260 STEP score who didn't get into that same program consider this other person as "cheating"? One may be more subtle than the other but just because it's socially more acceptable doesn't make it more or less right. But my point remains, cheating/connections/whatever you want to call it are different shades of the same color and is a fact of life. Being self righteous doesn't do you any good.

Because we, as humans, worship the rich and powerful. Same reason why white-collar crimes generally aren't considered as bad as blue-collar crimes.

On a deeper level, they are the same exact thing.

 

[Perrotfish]

It definitely frustrated me. Just thinking back on it I'm still frustrated. At my undergrad the Chemistry lab classes were graded almost entirely from lab report, which were judged based on adherence to an extrodinarily strict standard of formating. The majority of the class did copy the reports word for word from the previous generation (literally just changed the name and the numbers in the Excel spreadsheet). Because the reports had be perfected by generations of trial and error they all got perfect scores. I would spend 10+ hours writing a report that would inevitably get a C. All the lab classes were run by the same guy, who was far to intelligent not to realize he was getting the exact same reports every year so he obviously just didn't care. Many of my worst science grades came from Chemistry Lab classes.

It's not like there aren't dozens of solutions, either. The simplest is just to use Turnitin.com, which pretty much wiped out cheating in my English classes. Another even better solution that my engineering department used for lab reports was to make everyone write their reports on a special word processing program that could only be accessed from within the security camera moitored lab. Or you could rotate the labs between years so that everyone isn't always doing the exact same thing as the class before them. Or just make the reports worth a very small percentage of your grade so that they stop killing GPAs.

Someone will cheat at anything, but fewer people will cheat if you make it harder for them.

 

[JustMeditate]

Cheaters have never really bothered me. I guess it's because, for the most part, dumb people with an intent to cheat tend to gravitate toward one another and cheat off each other's incorrect answers. I find that, for the most part, these individuals do a LOT better on the homeworks than I do, because they cheat. Same deal with lab reports. Good for them. Let them have their perfect homework/lab grade (worth about 10-20% of our total grade). When exam time comes around, they're going to need all the help they can get just to pass. Exams are a good 60-85% of our total grade in a class.

 

[getdown]

Because one is usually explicitly prohibited in a school's student code of conduct, and one is not.

Yes, I know that and I acknowledged that in the end of the post. However saying "because the school doesn't allow it" doesn't make it any less of cheating in principle. Might want to reevaluate your own moral code rather than going by what other people say is right and wrong.

 

[juliedi]

Yes, I know that and I acknowledged that in the end of the post. However saying "because the school doesn't allow it" doesn't make it any less of cheating in principle. Might want to reevaluate your own moral code rather than going by what other people say is right and wrong.

Alright, I admit I didn't read the last part of your post; I just saw the beginning and was a little 😱 that someone would put plagiarizing someone's assignment on the same level as using personal connections to help land a residency or job. You're right that to just say "someone says it's wrong" is a bad reason for saying it's wrong. So here's my reasoning, perhaps the same reason that so many educational institutions say that copying another student's work is not allowed. By copying someone else's work, you are stealing. You are taking credit for a piece of work that you did not produce. My own moral code tells me that that is not right. On the other hand, when you use personal connections to help land a job, you are not lying or pretending to be someone else. Relationships can be assets, whether those relationships were established by pure luck (e.g. you happened to grow up in the same hometown as the residency director) or your own determination (e.g. you made it a point of doing a rotation at the specific hospital during medical school so you could get to know the attendings). Perhaps it seems unfair if you're the person who doesn't have those connections, but I don't think you can say it's the same as cheating. That's like saying that med schools shouldn't accept students with average GPAs and MCATS but extraordinary EC's or interview skills, because they cheated.

Edit: ok, so I probably just sounded like a d-bag. I realize you were only playing devil's advocate there, so I don't mean to sound so b*tchy.

 

[MisterVeil]

Not condoning cheating, but that's their deal. However the self-righteous crap about cheaters getting no where and all that jazz is really heuristic and borderline delusional.

This. Also not condoning cheating, and I have never cheated in my life, but:

Some people cheat. Some cheaters will be successful. Some won't. It would be great if there were some form of poetic justice in the universe, karma if you want to call it that, where cheaters would get it in the end, or screw up/falter eventually.

However, nothing like that exists. By pure dumb luck (or dumbness), some of them will slip up down the line, others won't.

It does you no good worrying about it. It all comes down to your personal integrity. Do you want to cheat? Yes? Then go ahead and do it. Do you feel cheating is wrong? Yes? Then don't do it, and get through on your own merit, so that you can sleep at night and be satisfied with yourself.

Don't worry so much about what other people are doing.

 

[Geneticist]

Oh I don't think cheaters are up all night crying themselves to sleep about their lack of morality. In fact, I'm sure a lot of them are glad they cheated their way to an A...

I personally don't cheat, but I have friends who do. And they're pre-meds. I don't care if they cheat or not because I know that when it gets down to the nitty-gritty, I'll be the one scoring higher on exams (that you can't cheat during) and I'll most likely be scoring higher on the MCAT as well. It's just a matter of time before they realize cheating only works in the short term.

 

[gettheleadout]

Alright, I admit I didn't read the last part of your post; I just saw the beginning and was a little 😱 that someone would put plagiarizing someone's assignment on the same level as using personal connections to help land a residency or job. You're right that to just say "someone says it's wrong" is a bad reason for saying it's wrong. So here's my reasoning, perhaps the same reason that so many educational institutions say that copying another student's work is not allowed. By copying someone else's work, you are stealing. You are taking credit for a piece of work that you did not produce. My own moral code tells me that that is not right. On the other hand, when you use personal connections to help land a job, you are not lying or pretending to be someone else. Relationships can be assets, whether those relationships were established by pure luck (e.g. you happened to grow up in the same hometown as the residency director) or your own determination (e.g. you made it a point of doing a rotation at the specific hospital during medical school so you could get to know the attendings). Perhaps it seems unfair if you're the person who doesn't have those connections, but I don't think you can say it's the same as cheating. That's like saying that med schools shouldn't accept students with average GPAs and MCATS but extraordinary EC's or interview skills, because they cheated.

Edit: ok, so I probably just sounded like a d-bag. I realize you were only playing devil's advocate there, so I don't mean to sound so b*tchy.

I agree with this.

getdown: Just because the other residency applicant had better numbers or something doesn't mean they were the better applicant. Even if everything quantitative about their application was better, it doesn't make them the right choice for the residency. My point is, evaluation of applicants for things like that, where there is a definite human factor, is based on a lot of different aspects of the person and their qualifications. In contrast, the grading of a lab report can be based on whatever the professor wants, but the most fundamental factor in the grading is the assumption that it is the student's own work, and by copying someone else's, the student is using resourcefulness as a means to subvert the legitimacy of their assignment's grading. The difference in the latter as far as ethics is concerned, is clear to me.

 

[orthomyxo]

12 - 15 hour lab reports = hardcore annoying premed

 

[Slack3r]

Oh I don't think cheaters are up all night crying themselves to sleep about their lack of morality. In fact, I'm sure a lot of them are glad they cheated their way to an A...

I personally don't cheat, but I have friends who do. And they're pre-meds. I don't care if they cheat or not because I know that when it gets down to the nitty-gritty, I'll be the one scoring higher on exams (that you can't cheat during) and I'll most likely be scoring higher on the MCAT as well. It's just a matter of time before they realize cheating only works in the short term.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

 

[mauberley]

12 - 15 hour lab reports = hardcore annoying premed

12 to 15-hour lab reports = slow and inefficient. 😉

 

[Geneticist]

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

Way to take what I said completely out of context. Next time, try reading my whole statement before quoting Family Guy.

http://domaingang.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/******.jpg

 

[Analytic]

[...] I was told in college this stuff doesn't work, only hard working students get through..clearly not. [...]

It does work in college, unfortunately. However, this will catch-up with them once they're out of school. Those methods are unacceptable "in the real world." Someone will not always be there to give them the answers.

 

[StudyShy]

12 to 15-hour lab reports = slow and inefficient. 😉

I guess it might depend on the lab report and the expectations of the professor.

Most of the careplans that we had to write in nursing took around 12 hours to complete for one patient so I can understand how one report on an experiement or treatment plan for a patient could be lengthy especially when you know that everything that you write, every calculation and rationale for an action will be audited with a red pen.

Off topic, I know, but I once got a sticker on one of my peds careplans that I had spent a solid day on that said "RIP" on it. Juvenille, I think to get a sticker on my college work and scary that it was so morbid. I wasn't sure how to take it. Evil, twisted teachers. lol