Doris Duke/CRTP/HHMI/Sarnoff Thread

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... It's all a matter of semantics and administrative bureaucracy which you shouldn't get too caught up over.
I agree it's semantics - my experience with bureacracies is that an ounce of prevention and foresight now prevents a pound of garbage later. Though it is apparent that the previous poster's FA is clueless - I mean, defaulting loans in med school? That's crazy!
 
Rxnman, pretty sure that even if you take a year off for HHMI or DD you're still considered a US Senior.

I also doubt any programs are stupid enough to filter out all 5 year students without accounting for research fellows.

I also disagree with your assertion that leaves of absence are solely for personal or academic problems. Many schools have only one mechanism for taking leave and it can be for any number of reasons including research fellowship, additional degrees, etc... It's all a matter of semantics and administrative bureaucracy which you shouldn't get too caught up over.

Yea I agree that some school's only have one mechanism for taking a leave and lump academic/medical/financial/educational leaves all together. I believe that is how my school does it. But as Rxnman mentioned some schools that have had a lot of experience with the 1yr fellowships have been able to "create" a different category. Does it make a difference when applying for residency? I have no idea. I hope that the PD would look at the application when they see you took a year off and noticed you spend time at HHMI/DD/CRTP...etc. and also saw your publications.

One question for Rxnman, in regards to the "independent study" classification, how can you take 1 year off, be considered a full-time student, but loans don't change, and no tuition is charged and yet be a "4th" year medical student rather than a "5th" year. Isn't all dependent on your status as a full time student? So if you were a full time student for 5 years you would be a 5th year senior no matter what?

As a side note, since my school has never sent someone to a HHMI/DD/CRTP type program before, I have been in communication with some of the administrators about this issue of academic classification. In the end it might not even be an issue of how I am classified, but hopefully they can figure out the best method of doing this for me.
 
I agree it's semantics - my experience with bureacracies is that an ounce of prevention and foresight now prevents a pound of garbage later. Though it is apparent that the previous poster's FA is clueless - I mean, defaulting loans in med school? That's crazy!

+1 that is why I think it is worthwhile to start talking to your administration about your LOA and discuss how it would be classified sooner rather than later.
 
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At my school, we're still enrolled as students if we do these programs. That way, it's much less complicated and we still have access to the school's resources.
 
I was just thinking this afternoon, wouldn't the dean's letter mention the fellowship year and avoid any problems/issues when the PD looks at your app?
 
I was just thinking this afternoon, wouldn't the dean's letter mention the fellowship year and avoid any problems/issues when the PD looks at your app?

The only time I've ever heard this even be a concern is from RxnMan, and I believe it is entirely unfounded.

- hundreds of people do HHMI, DD, Sarnoff, etc... fellowships every year. Usually top people who end up matching at top places. PD's know this, this is not something new. It is routine.

- It's glaringly obvious to programs why people who have finished research fellowships take 5 years to finish medical school.

- You will be considered a US senior by the match when you graduate.

- You're not going to be able to hide a year of research by administrative tweaking. The dates of when you started, continued and finished school will make that very apparent.

- Your status as a 5th year or 4th year student won't be changed by how your leave is categorized by the school. Every school has a slightly different system they use to classify research fellows. Use the one that your school uses and don't lose any sleep over it.

- I don't even know how this became a concern at all.
 
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Socmob, I'm happy to:

Let me preface with my advice to apply to BOTH programs. They're so much alike that you could overlook the differences and be happy with either, therefore it simple improves your odds of having a year in Bethesda.

Housing:
I'll try and mention things that I didn't in my previous posts. With HHMI, There's a lottery to determine who gets what room (unless you're with S.O., in which case you get a 1BR automatically) and depending on the room, you could pay $300-850/month which is taken directly out of your pay. Only HHMI scholars live in the Cloister. Each room comes with a computer, tv, kitchenware, and is furnished. There is a weightroom, free laundry-room, a ping-pong table, a pool table, a library, a piano, and a lounge at the Cloister as well. If you want to have a non-NIH employee come visit you, they must come through security which takes approx. 5 min (I only mention this because someone stressed this as a negative during my interviews...I couldn't give 2 sh#*s about it though).

With CRTP, you live off campus in an apartment complex. The complex houses CRTP and non-CRTP residents. You share a 2BR with another fellow unless you have a S.O. in which case you get a 1BR. The 2BR costs 930 apiece or something like that. Not sure about the 1BR. They are furnished similarly to the cloister rooms, but you provide your own computer. They give you a computer allowance, but I think they've gotten rid of that now. Not sure about laundry. There's a gym less than a block away, but I don't know if that cost is covered. You get either a parking pass for the NIH or tons of metro money. Not sure about other recreation at the apt building.

Research:
CRTP can do clinical or translational. Often in the same lab as HHMI scholars.
HHMI can do any kind of research. Often in the same lab as CRTP 🙂
You choose your mentor after you get here with both programs (this is an unbelievably great thing in my opinion). HHMI requires a 9 month commitment and CRTP is 11 months, I believe. Both programs pay you to present at conferences.

Interviews (lesser issue):
CRTP = fly you down and stay at a Double Tree. Pay you per diem for food. Interview itself was very conversational.
HHMI = stay at HHMI headquarters. Food and meals are provided. Interviews are at the Cloister. Interviews themselves tear you down and make you feel like you don't know what you're talking about and then question your motives.

"Enrichment Activities":
CRTP has Clinical Grand Rounds, optional Monday night dinners at the Cloister, and possibly other stuff. HHMI has required Monday night dinners with guest lecturers and Thursday night dinners with scholar presentations. Each program participates in the Clinical Investigator Student Trainee (CIST) Forum which is several days of lectures where all the 1 year off students (Sarnoff, DD, Fogarty, CRTP, NIH GPP, etc.) come to the NIH. HHMI has 1 additional meeting with all the HHMI fellows and scholars in Bethesda (haven't done that one yet).

If you want to throw a party at the Cloister, for instance for the super bowl, barbecue, etc. HHMI will give you money to do it (they don't pay for alcohol though). Not sure of CRTP's policy on this.

Classes:
No classes are required for HHMI. They will pay for classes and books if you want them. A series of Clinical Research Courses are required by CRTP, so you leave with a certificate in clinical research.

Wrapup:
As you can see, they are quite similar programs. It would be hard to hit on everything here and I feel like I've missed a lot. I hope this was helpful on some level. I'll try and field additional questions as needed.

On a side note: I thought only law2doc was ever called to post. I feel flattered!



Socmob...Thanks for the wonderful details! It seems that wih my school I will have to start 3rd year and then take a year off if I follow the HHMI schedule. DO you know of anyone who has asked to come to the Cloisters around April instead of June?
It seems that the interview was not enjoyable for many there, what is the most important thing during the interviews? How many interviews are there?
 
Uh, I think you want to talk to thesauce, who was answering my questions, not me. =)

Also, I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is that you just start 3rd year and do some rotations and then start the fellowship. When you come back from the fellowship you pick up 3rd year when you left off. Not a big deal.
 
One more factor to consider in the hhmi vs crtp is that hhmi alumni will be eligible for the 375k early career grant with a fund rate of around 50%. I don't know if CRTP has a similar measure.
 
Socmob...Thanks for the wonderful details! It seems that wih my school I will have to start 3rd year and then take a year off if I follow the HHMI schedule. DO you know of anyone who has asked to come to the Cloisters around April instead of June?
It seems that the interview was not enjoyable for many there, what is the most important thing during the interviews? How many interviews are there?

It's probably not possible to move in any earlier than the first move-in date. The housing lottery would have to assign you a room with a person who just happened to move out early, and even then they need to clean it and what-not, so I wouldn't count on it.

Probably not possible to start 3rd year and leave either because you'd have to pay tuition for that semester even though you're only taking classes that one month. What most people do is take vacation after 2nd or 3rd year ends up until they move in. Then they leave the program to start back at their school when they would normally start the next year.

There are 2 interviews with 2 scientists at each interview. Know your research, where it has been, and where it could go. If you mention any other research (even as an aside, even if you just read about it in Yahoo News) prepare to explain that in detail as well. The interviews are tough. Good luck!
 
It's probably not possible to move in any earlier than the first move-in date. The housing lottery would have to assign you a room with a person who just happened to move out early, and even then they need to clean it and what-not, so I wouldn't count on it.

Probably not possible to start 3rd year and leave either because you'd have to pay tuition for that semester even though you're only taking classes that one month. What most people do is take vacation after 2nd or 3rd year ends up until they move in. Then they leave the program to start back at their school when they would normally start the next year.

There are 2 interviews with 2 scientists at each interview. Know your research, where it has been, and where it could go. If you mention any other research (even as an aside, even if you just read about it in Yahoo News) prepare to explain that in detail as well. The interviews are tough. Good luck!


Thanks for the info! We actually cover for part of our third year tuition in the spring of 2nd year, so paying for tuition is not a problem.
I cannot either take some time off in between b/c I won't be done with 3rd year on time if I do so. 3rd year for us starts in April and I thought HHMI is 12 months and not 10 months, right?
 
Thanks for the info! We actually cover for part of our third year tuition in the spring of 2nd year, so paying for tuition is not a problem.
I cannot either take some time off in between b/c I won't be done with 3rd year on time if I do so. 3rd year for us starts in April and I thought HHMI is 12 months and not 10 months, right?

I believe the HHMI minimum is 9 months. It's on the website.
 
I hope that some of you that are applying would be kind enough to share your experiences after the interviews. I am quite curious to hear what they want to find out about you and how hard they grill you on your past projects.

Thanks in advance!
 
I hope that some of you that are applying would be kind enough to share your experiences after the interviews. I am quite curious to hear what they want to find out about you and how hard they grill you on your past projects.

Thanks in advance!
I'll post something. Don't worry. 😀
 
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Did anyone who apply to the HHMI Med Fellows program (IRTF) hear anything yet?...getting anxious now!
 
Anyone hear from UCSF Doris Duke?

As far as I know they don't do interviews like some of the other programs (UTSW, UPenn, UIowa...etc.) and base everything off the proposal and your application. As a result nothing will be known until 3/20 at the earliest. Good luck.
 
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Got my email early today. Got waitlisted, so all of you with mulitple acceptances, do me and the others waiting a solid - accept whichever program is your preference, but remember to notify the other programs of your decision.

Thanks.
 
Releases were sent out for Sarnoff, DDCF (at least some locations), and HHMI-Cloisters. I think you have at least 1 week to contemplate your decision for all programs, but as RxnMan mentioned, the sooner the better!
 
Got my email early today. Got waitlisted, so all of you with mulitple acceptances, do me and the others waiting a solid - accept whichever program is your preference, but remember to notify the other programs of your decision.

Thanks.

🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁 Same.
 
Got into Cloisters, WashU DDCF 😀😀😀 😍, and UIowa DDCF as of now. Still waiting to hear back from a few of the other DDCF programs.

I have to talk things over with my girlfriend this weekend, but as of now I am leaning towards WashU DDCF as that was my #1 😀. I know Cloisters gets a lot of the glory here on SDN, but I felt more comfortable at WashU and want to apply there for residency. Nothing like getting your foot in the door for 1 whole year and working with the director of the program you want to go into. 😀 Not to mention that COL is dirt cheap in St. Louis compared to Bethesda.

Hope to be able to finally decide by early next week where I will accept. I think the DDCF gives you until April 3 to take an acceptance. 2 weeks is quite a long time imho, but I guess it gives those on a waitlist a chance to see if they can get into their #1.
 
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Got into Cloisters, WashU DDCF 😀😀😀 😍, and UIowa DDCF as of now. Still waiting to hear back from a few of the other DDCF programs.

I have to talk things over with my girlfriend this weekend, but as of now I am leaning towards WashU DDCF as that was my #1 😀. I know Cloisters gets a lot of the glory here on SDN, but I felt more comfortable at WashU and want to apply there for residency. Nothing like getting your foot in the door for 1 whole year and working with the director of the program you want to go into. 😀 Not to mention that COL is dirt cheap in St. Louis compared to Bethesda.

Hope to be able to finally decide by early next week where I will accept. I think the DDCF gives you until April 3 to take an acceptance. 2 weeks is quite a long time imho, but I guess it gives those on a waitlist a chance to see if they can get into their #1.

One thing I would really consider carefully in your decision is the fact that you took the time to put together a protocol with WashU. That being the case (if that is the case), I would highly recommend taking that spot. It's hard to say to them that even though you put together a proposal that you'd rather go elsewhere and work with some other person on an undesignated project. That's a tough conversation to have. Just like you can get your foot in the door by taking the WashU DD, you may be burning bridges if you don't.

For what it is, Cloisters is a great program. WashU DD is much more like HHMI Med Fellows than Cloisters so this ends up being a personal decision.
 
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Got into Cloisters, WashU DDCF 😀😀😀 😍, and UIowa DDCF as of now. Still waiting to hear back from a few of the other DDCF programs.

I have to talk things over with my girlfriend this weekend, but as of now I am leaning towards WashU DDCF as that was my #1 😀. I know Cloisters gets a lot of the glory here on SDN, but I felt more comfortable at WashU and want to apply there for residency. Nothing like getting your foot in the door for 1 whole year and working with the director of the program you want to go into. 😀 Not to mention that COL is dirt cheap in St. Louis compared to Bethesda.

WTF? Wow, this is truly a No Brainer. What is there to think about? If I got DDCF at the dream school I want to residency at there would be absolutely NO WAY anyone could convince me NOT to go! Why would you NOT take that opportunity??! Congrats, whatever you decide though 👍
 
One thing I would really consider carefully in your decision is the fact that you took the time to put together a protocol with WashU. That being the case (if that is the case), I would highly recommend taking that spot. It's hard to say to them that even though you put together a proposal that you'd rather go elsewhere and work with some other person on an undesignated project. That's a tough conversation to have. Just like you can get your foot in the door by taking the WashU DD, you may be burning bridges if you don't.

For what it is, Cloisters is a great program. WashU DD is much more like HHMI Med Fellows than Cloisters so this ends up being a personal decision.

Thanks sauce for the advice, as that is something that I have thought about.
 
WTF? Wow, this is truly a No Brainer. What is there to think about? If I got DDCF at the dream school I want to residency at there would be absolutely NO WAY anyone could convince me NOT to go! Why would you NOT take that opportunity??! Congrats, whatever you decide though 👍

Hahahaha :laugh::laugh::laugh:. mTOR, I know, I know. I have basically already made up my mind several weeks ago when I did the whole "what if" scenario in my head. I basically know where I will accept, I just need to talk to the girlfriend about the decision before I make it official. You know how girlfriends can be regarding making "major life decisions" without including them in the decision, even though the two of us have been talking about this quite a bit. Just need to make sure we are both on the same page. :laugh:
 
I just declined a UCSF DDCF invitation for Cloisters. It was a tough decision, but mostly had to do with a change in my research interests. I think they've notified all of their first round picks and the waitlist as well.
 
Got accepted to HHMI Med Fellows (the only program I applied for)😎
 
So I had the chance to think things over this weekend and talk to my girlfriend. I have decided to not accept the Cloister's position and emailed my official acceptance for the WashU DDCRF. 😀 While the HHMI-NIH program offers many benefits, some of which are unique to its program, I still feel like WashU is the right place for me. Ultimately both would have been great places to train at, but I just had to go with my heart on this one. Hopefully this opens up a spot for those who might be on the wait list for Cloisters.
 
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Any luck for those of you one the waitlist yet? Hope things start moving for you soon. I just let Cloisters and UIowa know that I would not be accepting their offers as well as those that had placed me on their waitlist. Good luck to everyone, hope the list starts moving for you. 👍
 
Nope...still waitlisted
For some reason I don't expect the list to start moving until next week.
Correct me if I'm wrong
 
Nope...still waitlisted
For some reason I don't expect the list to start moving until next week.
Correct me if I'm wrong

That sounds about right. I want to say that applicants need to decide by April 3rd. Once the first round of acceptances are made, hopefully that will speed things up.
 
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I know that several of the DDCF schools have not been able to offer as many spots this year as opposed to previous years due to the economy. As med-schools are cutting their budgets, unfortunately some had to cut their funding for extra spots in the DDCF program (that they themselves were funding) seperate from those spots that are funded through the DD foundation which are still being funded. However there were several programs that told me they were working really hard to find extra funding in order to offer as many spots as possible this year.
 
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