DO's, the second class citizen?

[Bleurberry]

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I had a conversation with a senior doctor and director at a well known medical hospital here on the east coast, and he was ademant that DO school is the worst mistake I will forseeably make in my career life. He expressed that DO's are weeded out of the job application pool, they MAKE LESS MONEY according to their 2nd class status held by the majority of the medical community.
This doctor isn't living in a vacuum, he has impeccible credentials, both Harvard and Cornell. Maybe you could argue that he DOES live in a vacuum, accordingly. I don't know. I'm a lowly pre-med.

I have my own suspicions about how he's come to his conclusions, but I wanted your take on this. It wasn't nearly as upsetting to me as I thought it would be, and I'm still committed to an osteopathic education; it'd be DISingenuous of me to NOT go the osteopathic route seeing as OMM is a particular interest of mine. But I've done my homework and gotten real - time and primary source info that tells me quite the opposite, that academically PCOM (for example) is a competitive with the other medical schools in Philadelphia, and nationally accepted as training excellent doctors. I could rattle off many more Osteopathic schools that have similar reputations. Still, when told by him that Grenada is a better option than DO school, my jaw dropped. Did I slip into the twilight zone?

 

[jbayne04]

For what it's worth, a professor of mine in a graduate course wrote one of my LOR's. He is a HMS graduate and professor in multiple dpts. at one of the top med schools, very-well respected as one of the world's leading authorities in his field., etc etc, blah blah blah.

When I told him I was applying to MD and DO programs, he said, "Oh yes, an osteopathic school... well, that's the same thing. Either way you're a physician, right?"

 

[Tiagao]

🙄

And there are still old folks who believe that the corn mazes that are found everywhere around Halloween are cut by aliens.


This is nothing new, there are tons of threads like this. Just remember that in the real world, a doctor is a doctor. The difference is not so much the philosophy or even OMM but the fact that there are simply many less DO schools in existence.

People like that guy are the same ones that would look down on you if you went to U Penn instead of HMS, JHS, or some other uber elite school. There just has to be some valid ranking so that they feel validated in their personal choices. Also, I would be that most students currently at those schools understand that a doc's a doc. I mean the guy who just had a heart attack doesn't care where his cardiologist trained, only that he can take care of the problem.

Best of Luck to you!
T

 

[Taty]

My primary care doctor told me the same thing -a doc is a doc, he had never seen a discrimination against DOs.

 

[Taty]

I had a conversation with a senior doctor and director at a well known medical hospital here on the east coast, and he was ademant that DO school is the worst mistake I will forseeably make in my career life. He expressed that DO's are weeded out of the job application pool, they MAKE LESS MONEY according to their 2nd class status held by the majority of the medical community.
This doctor isn't living in a vacuum, he has impeccible credentials, both Harvard and Cornell. Maybe you could argue that he DOES live in a vacuum, accordingly. I don't know. I'm a lowly pre-med.

I have my own suspicions about how he's come to his conclusions, but I wanted your take on this. It wasn't nearly as upsetting to me as I thought it would be, and I'm still committed to an osteopathic education; it'd be ingenuous of me to NOT go the osteopathic route seeing as OMM is a particular interest of mine. But I've done my homework and gotten real - time and primary source info that tells me quite the opposite, that academically PCOM (for example) is a competitive with the other medical schools in Philadelphia, and nationally accepted as training excellent doctors. I could rattle off many more Osteopathic schools that have similar reputations. Still, when told by him that Grenada is a better option than DO school, my jaw dropped. Did I slip into the twilight zone?

That Dr probaby from old school ..just ignore this...it does not worth to get upset about...

 

[jonb12997]

you know what else? there are older DO's who have similar type feelings! (not all, but a few), stuff like "those MD's just push pills and don't care about their patients the way DOs do" and "the AMA is out to get us"... there's always a few in every crowd.

 

[toothless rufus]

I heard some MDs think that DOs were once MDs who were abducted by aliens, and given special training (OMM) that acts to bring their patients' minds under the alien's control (cranial), effectively allowing them to walk among us unseen, and plot the Earth's demise (AOA)!!

 

[Taty]

I heard some MDs think that DOs were once MDs who were abducted by aliens, and given special training (OMM) that acts to bring their patients' minds under the alien's control (cranial), effectively allowing them to walk among us unseen, and plot the Earth's demise (AOA)!!

 

[beastmaster]

I once attended a talk at a prestigious ivy league med school. It was a few months before I started MS1. I'd usually go to these weekly talks for the free cookies, but the topic that day looked interesting (was about md/phd education) so I made sure not to miss it. I was late, and so was the speaker, a famed MD/PhD. So we both walked together to the hall. He asked if I was a med student and followed up by asking where, I said not yet but will be starting at an osteopathic college. He then asked "what's the difference?" ... I said, "well, you see..." and he dashed into a sprint and ran away from me. Obviously he realized he forgot something at the front desk, but it's funnier to think he ran for other reasons.

 

[misparas]

I heard some MDs think that DOs were once MDs who were abducted by aliens, and given special training (OMM) that acts to bring their patients' minds under the alien's control (cranial), effectively allowing them to walk among us unseen, and plot the Earth's demise (AOA)!!

Ever see "They Live"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L86AAGZ9BBg

 

[toothless rufus]

I once attended a talk at a prestigious ivy league med school. It was a few months before I started MS1. I'd usually go to these weekly talks for the free cookies, but the topic that day looked interesting (was about md/phd education) so I made sure not to miss it. I was late, and so was the speaker, a famed MD/PhD. So we both walked together to the hall. He asked if I was a med student and followed up by asking where, I said not yet but will be starting at an osteopathic college. He then asked "what's the difference?" ... I said, "well, you see..." and he dashed into a sprint and ran away from me. Obviously he realized he forgot something at the front desk, but it's funnier to think he ran for other reasons.

Ha! That's a great story!

Ever seen "They Live"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L86AAGZ9BBg

Haha! Yeah, that movie rocks!!

 

[Pansit]

I had a conversation with a senior doctor and director at a well known medical hospital here on the east coast, and he was ademant that DO school is the worst mistake I will forseeably make in my career life. He expressed that DO's are weeded out of the job application pool, they MAKE LESS MONEY according to their 2nd class status held by the majority of the medical community.
This doctor isn't living in a vacuum, he has impeccible credentials, both Harvard and Cornell. Maybe you could argue that he DOES live in a vacuum, accordingly. I don't know. I'm a lowly pre-med.

I have my own suspicions about how he's come to his conclusions, but I wanted your take on this. It wasn't nearly as upsetting to me as I thought it would be, and I'm still committed to an osteopathic education; it'd be DISingenuous of me to NOT go the osteopathic route seeing as OMM is a particular interest of mine. But I've done my homework and gotten real - time and primary source info that tells me quite the opposite, that academically PCOM (for example) is a competitive with the other medical schools in Philadelphia, and nationally accepted as training excellent doctors. I could rattle off many more Osteopathic schools that have similar reputations. Still, when told by him that Grenada is a better option than DO school, my jaw dropped. Did I slip into the twilight zone?

It's obvious that this doctor is looking only at prestige when giving you advice about choosing a medical school. His sound advice of going to Grenada instead of a DO school seems to lack the logical sense that attrition rates, board passing rates, match lists, rotations, faciilities..etc are suppose to be better as well in grenada.🙄

You guys have to realize that the majority of the medical community has no idea was SDN is. When they are giving you advice on medical school, they still think you are a no-knowing pre-med about the whole process and that you would place every opinion they say on high ground. Especially some of the pre-med advisors out there....they can learn from a few weeks of surfing SDN. That is why SDN is so cool!!!👍

 

[ceftazidime]

I had a conversation with a senior doctor and director at a well known medical hospital here on the east coast, and he was ademant that DO school is the worst mistake I will forseeably make in my career life.

The key word is highlighted there for you. If you talk to a younger doctor, you'll probably get a different opinion.

 

[Taty]

The key word is highlighted there for you. If you talk to a younger doctor, you'll probably get a different opinion.

Agree...reminded me my neighbr she came to convince me not to go to NYCOM because it is not real medical school (she is a nurse about 75 yo who married to the surgeon)..she was like show me a surgeon who is a DO..I am going like hmm I can give u many names if u dont know it does not mean that they are no DO surgeons.

What I am get annoyed with is that they talk to my parents about it...whats wrong with them anyway, give me 10 years and I'll be one of the DO surgeons to bad they may not be around anymore to enjoy the show...

 

[SomeDoc]

Pre-med topic. 😴

 

[SomeDoc]

The key word is highlighted there for you. If you talk to a younger doctor, you'll probably get a different opinion.

This is definitely true.

 

[Red Beard]

There should be a filter that catches these kind of threads and deletes them.

 

[Doctor M]

A doc is a Doc. I mean come on, why let someone decide DO or MD. You go do what you want to do and that is final! I'll fill the script whether its from a DO or MD. 🙂

Dr. M

 

[w a n g]

I had a conversation with a senior doctor and director at a well known medical hospital here on the east coast, and he was ademant that DO school is the worst mistake I will forseeably make in my career life. He expressed that DO's are weeded out of the job application pool, they MAKE LESS MONEY according to their 2nd class status held by the majority of the medical community.
This doctor isn't living in a vacuum, he has impeccible credentials, both Harvard and Cornell. Maybe you could argue that he DOES live in a vacuum, accordingly. I don't know. I'm a lowly pre-med.

I have my own suspicions about how he's come to his conclusions, but I wanted your take on this. It wasn't nearly as upsetting to me as I thought it would be, and I'm still committed to an osteopathic education; it'd be DISingenuous of me to NOT go the osteopathic route seeing as OMM is a particular interest of mine. But I've done my homework and gotten real - time and primary source info that tells me quite the opposite, that academically PCOM (for example) is a competitive with the other medical schools in Philadelphia, and nationally accepted as training excellent doctors. I could rattle off many more Osteopathic schools that have similar reputations. Still, when told by him that Grenada is a better option than DO school, my jaw dropped. Did I slip into the twilight zone?

im pretty sure the only way to settle this is to fight him. hope you've been working out more than just your wrist abd/adductors.

 

[Taty]

im pretty sure the only way to settle this is to fight him. hope you've been working out more than just your wrist abd/adductors.

haha I have good imagination 🙂🙂🙂

 

[Green912]

I had a conversation with a senior doctor and director at a well known medical hospital here on the east coast, and he was ademant that DO school is the worst mistake I will forseeably make in my career life. He expressed that DO's are weeded out of the job application pool, they MAKE LESS MONEY according to their 2nd class status held by the majority of the medical community.
This doctor isn't living in a vacuum, he has impeccible credentials, both Harvard and Cornell. Maybe you could argue that he DOES live in a vacuum, accordingly. I don't know. I'm a lowly pre-med.

I have my own suspicions about how he's come to his conclusions, but I wanted your take on this. It wasn't nearly as upsetting to me as I thought it would be, and I'm still committed to an osteopathic education; it'd be DISingenuous of me to NOT go the osteopathic route seeing as OMM is a particular interest of mine. But I've done my homework and gotten real - time and primary source info that tells me quite the opposite, that academically PCOM (for example) is a competitive with the other medical schools in Philadelphia, and nationally accepted as training excellent doctors. I could rattle off many more Osteopathic schools that have similar reputations. Still, when told by him that Grenada is a better option than DO school, my jaw dropped. Did I slip into the twilight zone?

Sounds like someone who lives in an ivory tower and is somewhat removed from everyday medicine. After four years of D.O. education and residency applications (both oseto and allo) it's been my experience that the anxiety about being discriminated against has been much worse than the reality.

 

[JonnyG]

I had a conversation with a senior doctor and director at a well known medical hospital here on the east coast, and he was ademant that DO school is the worst mistake I will forseeably make in my career life. He expressed that DO's are weeded out of the job application pool, they MAKE LESS MONEY according to their 2nd class status held by the majority of the medical community.
This doctor isn't living in a vacuum, he has impeccible credentials, both Harvard and Cornell. Maybe you could argue that he DOES live in a vacuum, accordingly. I don't know. I'm a lowly pre-med.
?

I am assuming this happened in philly and most likely temple. If it did ask him about the last temple director who ran thier mouth off in the paper about DOs. She's still having trouble getitng consults from other departments because their directors have to dig a little deeper to understand her. < the slow down is just a rumor but still a funny one i heard>. The guy is ina vacuum if he works in philly since DOs are pretty pervasive and some of the last residencies to exclude DOs have recently accepted them into their program.s

 

[Taty]

Well I guess the only thing to fight these people is just ignore them.

 

[Pansit]

Well I guess the only thing to fight these people is just ignore them.

I suggest you find out their email addresses (if they even have one) and spam them with all these osteopathic related materials about how cool DO's are...and how there are DO's in every field, (even in surgery!😱) and how that "hero MD" was actually a DO and how there was an army surgeon general who was a DO and how this DO guy is chief of surgery at this place, and how DO's invented light and how DO's invented the car along with the airplane (yeah..wright brothers were in fact DO's). Dont forget to remind them of how DO's invented the internet too!

 

[DeLaughterDO]

I suggest you find out their email addresses (if they even have one) and spam them with all these osteopathic related materials about how cool DO's are...and how there are DO's in every field, (even in surgery!😱) and how that "hero MD" was actually a DO and how there was an army surgeon general who was a DO and how this DO guy is chief of surgery at this place, and how DO's invented light and how DO's invented the car along with the airplane (yeah..wright brothers were in fact DO's). Dont forget to remind them of how DO's invented the internet too!

I didn't know Al Gore is a D.O.!!! Hmmm.... I wonder what his views are regarding the DO vs MDO vs MD,DO debate. 🙄

 

[Tiagao]

I suggest you find out their email addresses (if they even have one) and spam them with all these osteopathic related materials about how cool DO's are...and how there are DO's in every field, (even in surgery!😱) and how that "hero MD" was actually a DO and how there was an army surgeon general who was a DO and how this DO guy is chief of surgery at this place, and how DO's invented light and how DO's invented the car along with the airplane (yeah..wright brothers were in fact DO's). Dont forget to remind them of how DO's invented the internet too!

Al Gore is a DO?

 

[Taty]

Al Gore is a DO?

????

 

[Taty]

For what it's worth, a professor of mine in a graduate course wrote one of my LOR's. He is a HMS graduate and professor in multiple dpts. at one of the top med schools, very-well respected as one of the world's leading authorities in his field., etc etc, blah blah blah.

When I told him I was applying to MD and DO programs, he said, "Oh yes, an osteopathic school... well, that's the same thing. Either way you're a physician, right?"

thats what i think

 

[Bleurberry]

There should be a filter that catches these kind of threads and deletes them.

I didn't want to start a panic in the pre-osteo forum, and I wanted reactions from students IN medical school. That's why I posted here and that's why it wasn't moved.
Further, there may have been other similar threads in the past, but this was a very specific experience I just had. I'm a contributer, so I don't see the harm in having an opportunity to have my experience vetted.

Anyhow, 👍, it's for the cause.

 

[Bleurberry]

It's obvious that this doctor is looking only at prestige when giving you advice about choosing a medical school. His sound advice of going to Grenada instead of a DO school seems to lack the logical sense that attrition rates, board passing rates, match lists, rotations, faciilities..etc are suppose to be better as well in grenada.🙄

You guys have to realize that the majority of the medical community has no idea was SDN is. When they are giving you advice on medical school, they still think you are a no-knowing pre-med about the whole process and that you would place every opinion they say on high ground. Especially some of the pre-med advisors out there....they can learn from a few weeks of surfing SDN. That is why SDN is so cool!!!👍

SDN isn't well known by long-standing attendings, and the information available to pre-meds today on this forum is really unprecedented. It sure can help make an informed decision.
I appreciate your comments.

 

[dcratamt]

I am very disturbed by this thread. Are you sure those cornfield mazes arent made by aliens?

 

[Tiagao]

The truth is Al Gore is an alien. When he made the comment that he invented the internet it was a slip. The aliens use the internet as a way to entice other aliens to come out of hiding around Halloween and cut the mazes. So, I guess you could say they were really cut by aliens.

Though I haven't seen any aliens that I recognized other than Gore, I did see a couple of Men in Black driving a Benz.

 

[fabu1ous]

The truth is Al Gore is an alien. When he made the comment that he invented the internet it was a slip. The aliens use the internet as a way to entice other aliens to come out of hiding around Halloween and cut the mazes. So, I guess you could say they were really cut by aliens.

Though I haven't seen any aliens that I recognized other than Gore, I did see a couple of Men in Black driving a Benz.

I am very disturbed by this thread. Are you sure those cornfield mazes arent made by aliens?

But seriously, and I hate to even go here... But I pulled out the business card at my doctor's office, a large ob-gyn group, cause I was curious if they have any DOs at the practice. Well, I was quite offended to see that all of the doctors listed as MD were in a bigger print on two lines, followed by a third line with smaller print of ARNPs and, 😱, the one D.O. wt*??! Perhaps they ran out of room on the first two lines, and she's newer, and had to squeeeze her in on the bottom line?! (this is what I'm saying to myself). What's up wit' dat?

 

[lrobin15]

I know a guy that took classes with me in undergrad who frankly is a real bum. He takes like 1 class a semester and doesn't work and can still only make Bs. Okay, the point is that I applied a year early and he didn't and I got in. Yeah for me, right! Okay, so I run into him in town and we are talking and he asked if I was excited...blah, blah, blah.

He tells me that he has been shadowing a vascular surgeon and this surgeon tells him he will never do surgury if he goes to DO school. Anyway, I tell him that is bull and if doesn't get in to MD schools (he won't) that he should apply to DO schools. He says to me "I'm going to try NOT to get into DO schools". I'm look at him and think "Don't worry, you won't". This really ticks me off and I hope that his pride and ignorance keeps him out of medicine all together...I do realize that perhaps he is just mouthing off because he is jealous that I am fulfilling my dream, but it is the first encounter I have ever had where there was a real prejudice expressed.👎thumbdown👎

 

[Dr Fleischman]

I've met a lot of doctors, MDs and DOs, and do you know what I've noticed:

To many of them, they're the world's only first-class citizen!

It's called ego, so don't read too much into it.

Jake

 

[Terpskins99]

I had a conversation with a senior doctor and director at a well known medical hospital here on the east coast, and he was ademant that DO school is the worst mistake I will forseeably make in my career life. He expressed that DO's are weeded out of the job application pool, they MAKE LESS MONEY according to their 2nd class status held by the majority of the medical community.
This doctor isn't living in a vacuum, he has impeccible credentials, both Harvard and Cornell. Maybe you could argue that he DOES live in a vacuum, accordingly. I don't know. I'm a lowly pre-med.

I have my own suspicions about how he's come to his conclusions, but I wanted your take on this. It wasn't nearly as upsetting to me as I thought it would be, and I'm still committed to an osteopathic education; it'd be DISingenuous of me to NOT go the osteopathic route seeing as OMM is a particular interest of mine. But I've done my homework and gotten real - time and primary source info that tells me quite the opposite, that academically PCOM (for example) is a competitive with the other medical schools in Philadelphia, and nationally accepted as training excellent doctors. I could rattle off many more Osteopathic schools that have similar reputations. Still, when told by him that Grenada is a better option than DO school, my jaw dropped. Did I slip into the twilight zone?

While working as a pre-med at the Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, my advisors (one who was in charge of pediatric residencies in the US Navy, the other in charge of pediatric endocrinology fellowship throughout the entire armed forces) both told me that DO was a far superior option than heading over to the caribbeans. Both of them are MD's.

I'm not sure where your "senior doctor" friend is getting his information from. There is no discrepancy between the salaries of an MD or DO's assuming they both follow the same residency/fellowship track.

Now the average DO in general may make less money than the average MD simply because a greater percentage of DO's choose to go into less compensated specialties such as family practice or OB/GYN.

Oh, and btw... the notion that a D.O. will never practice vascular surgery is complete hogwash. Our program sends students into osteo AND allopathic surgery residencies every year.

 

[GreenShirt]

I prefer the term "B-league Doctors"......just j/k.

My pre-med adviser was a Harvard "old guard MD". When I brought up the option, she wouldn't even discuss it. It's the attitude you're going to get from a lot of the older generation Ivy league MDs and it's just one of those things you have to be prepared to deal with when you sign up the DO track.

Just remember, it's about being a good physician and having the opportunity and privilege to help people. Not about what other people have to think about you to make themselves feel more important.

 

[eon462]

One of my mom's friends went to a Caribbean medical school and dropped out after one year because he decided it wasn't for him. He has since graduated from a D.O. school, where he was much more pleased with his education.

 

[SomeDoc]

Why is this asinine thread still here in Osteo and not pre-allo/pre-osteo?

 

[MaximusD]

Why is this asinine thread still here in Osteo and not pre-allo/pre-osteo?

To make you bitch, rookie.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

I prefer the term "B-league Doctors"......just j/k.

My pre-med adviser was a Harvard "old guard MD". When I brought up the option, she wouldn't even discuss it. It's the attitude you're going to get from a lot of the older generation Ivy league MDs and it's just one of those things you have to be prepared to deal with when you sign up the DO track.

Just remember, it's about being a good physician and having the opportunity and privilege to help people. Not about what other people have to think about you to make themselves feel more important.

Just remember that attitude when you see this guy/gal in the hospital 🙂

"Oh, I don't know what to do about your pneumonia... You see, I'm only a D.O.! Do you think you could help me by reminding me how to intubate you, O' Harvard God/dess from on high?"



wait, that seemed bitter

Agree w/ the second point 100% Thank you for bringing it up 😉

jd

 

[DeLaughterDO]

Why is this asinine thread still here in Osteo and not pre-allo/pre-osteo?

Because we like it!!

😎

 

[fabu1ous]

Why is this asinine thread still here in Osteo and not pre-allo/pre-osteo?

Perhaps because it is an issue that future DO's may/have already experienced... pretty relevant to osteo students. The fact that this happens is not a myth, it's good to know how people may deal with DO discriminations should they arise... even if on rare occasion.

 

[Noeljan]

hey guys
I had to go to the emergency room friday d/t infection and pain following a root canal I had thurs. Anyways, the attending was a DO (the resident was an MD). Everything seemed fine there, and I am very thankful to the doctor. Someone finally got to the bottom of my problem. He was a great doctor, listened to me, and helped fix me🙂 Just wanted to add my recent experience with a DO.

 

[w a n g]

This is for all those who are scared of the D.O. degree and its associated "stigma". You will still be fat/have a big ugly nose/short/smell bad/just plain ugly even if have an M.D. to these people. If people want to hate on you, they will find ways. It's not the degree, its the whole freaking person.

-not gonna be just another M.D.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

This is for all those who are scared of the D.O. degree and its associated "stigma". You will still be fat/have a big ugly nose/short/smell bad/just plain ugly even if have an M.D. to these people. If people want to hate on you, they will find ways. It's not the degree, its the whole freaking person.

-not gonna be just another M.D.

Very reminiscent of the old D.O. motto... 😀

jd

 

[pappy846]

The school (MD, DO, Carib) does...not.......matter. What matters is how well you do on your boards and residency. Take this scenario: a grad from Harvard who did poorly on the boards, a grad from KCUMB who did average on the boards, and a Carib grad who did excellent on the boards...does school really matter? Most definitely not. MD, DO...whaaatever.

 

[kelaskov]

But seriously, and I hate to even go here... But I pulled out the business card at my doctor's office, a large ob-gyn group, cause I was curious if they have any DOs at the practice. Well, I was quite offended to see that all of the doctors listed as MD were in a bigger print on two lines, followed by a third line with smaller print of ARNPs and, 😱, the one D.O. wt*??! Perhaps they ran out of room on the first two lines, and she's newer, and had to squeeeze her in on the bottom line?! (this is what I'm saying to myself). What's up wit' dat?

It gets better.....I've seen at least 4 residency sites which list DO residents as MD's.
Bottom line- aliens are just better at patient care, that's why I like 'em.

 

[sweet2th]

I ran into two people I used to work with the other day. They asked me what school I was going to in the Fall and I said I'm going to a DO program, ect ect. Her face changes expression and she asks me if I'm aware of the DO stigma and how much difficulty I will have. I'm like, "oh really? Because there really is no major difference, maybe a slight edge for an MD to be chief attending of a Harvard department or something and I will probably take USMLE and COMLEX (which is a little annoying), but that is all." I cut them off right away. I was so pissed that I was hearing this, from people who were my friends, none the less. In my anger, I thought, well I suppose their two years in community college really got them the edge to be the super duper secretary they are today

 

[Vix206]

it really depends who you asked. when i was making the decision, i spoke to some MDs who were totally supportive of it and helped me make my decision.

then i spoke to one (with an ivy league medical education) who said, "are the MCATs required?" i soon realized i was talking to the wrong person about this...

finally, when i spoke to my physician who is a DO and asked him if he's had any difficulty in the field, he nicely answered no. but initially, he looked at me like he wanted to slap me for my stupid question.

so no matter what, you're going to get mixed reviews. you just need to keep in mind where it's coming from.