DPM title to MD change = realistic soon?

[GymMan]

I know there's going to be a ton of backlash here but short and sweet, will this probably happen or be voted down? If it does occur and DPMs can become MDs, I'm all for it. If you get the MD behind your name (though many will say it'll basterdize the product, which is untrue) it'll open doors, patients, insurance revenue, etc. to ALL DPMs. Don't vote against this, current DPMs, if you want a great chance to upgrade yourselves. It will diversify those DPMs that want to become fitness moguls or open a retail shoe business, etc. Now don't start the yada yada about "we should remain DPMs tried and true to our calling as feet men". Realize this novel opportunity in YOUR lifetime to expand the profession, and make it viable for all regardless of HOW they choose to use this title. Again, don't limit based on some obscure need in which you think you need to adhere to some "set of principles" solely for the reason that you think its "in the best interest of the field" yet have no logical reason why this is so. Think on that for a moment before you dismiss my sound reasoning. Thanks.

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[iceman69]

I know there's going to be a ton of backlash here but short and sweet, will this probably happen or be voted down? If it does occur and DPMs can become MDs, I'm all for it. If you get the MD behind your name (though many will say it'll basterdize the product, which is untrue) it'll open doors, patients, insurance revenue, etc. to ALL DPMs. Don't vote against this, current DPMs, if you want a great chance to upgrade yourselves. It will diversify those DPMs that want to become fitness moguls or open a retail shoe business, etc. Now don't start the yada yada about "we should remain DPMs tried and true to our calling as feet men". Realize this novel opportunity in YOUR lifetime to expand the profession, and make it viable for all regardless of HOW they choose to use this title. Again, don't limit based on some obscure need in which you think you need to adhere to some "set of principles" solely for the reason that you think its "in the best interest of the field" yet have no logical reason why this is so. Think on that for a moment before you dismiss my sound reasoning. Thanks.

If you feel this way, get the inferiority complex off your back and go to medical school (aka real doctor school in your mind). Giving an MD to DPM students would denigrate the MD. >4/5 of current pod students wouldn't be able to get into MD school, let alone finish it. Lastly, the DPM to MD degree change will not occur because the MD academics out there think podiatry is a joke, so this is going to be a very hard sell to them and others outside the profession.

 

[tracheatoedoc]

It will never happen. Do you think DPMs can vote for the change and then reissue diplomas that say MD?
It will never ever happen. There could be a combined degree with a medschool.

 

[cool_vkb]

I know there's going to be a ton of backlash here but short and sweet, will this probably happen or be voted down? If it does occur and DPMs can become MDs, I'm all for it. If you get the MD behind your name (though many will say it'll basterdize the product, which is untrue) it'll open doors, patients, insurance revenue, etc. to ALL DPMs. Don't vote against this, current DPMs, if you want a great chance to upgrade yourselves. It will diversify those DPMs that want to become fitness moguls or open a retail shoe business, etc. Now don't start the yada yada about "we should remain DPMs tried and true to our calling as feet men". Realize this novel opportunity in YOUR lifetime to expand the profession, and make it viable for all regardless of HOW they choose to use this title. Again, don't limit based on some obscure need in which you think you need to adhere to some "set of principles" solely for the reason that you think its "in the best interest of the field" yet have no logical reason why this is so. Think on that for a moment before you dismiss my sound reasoning. Thanks.

is this your proposal? or is there a debate going on for real?

 

[dropfoot]

is this your proposal? or is there a debate going on for real?

Yes there really is a debate and no it aint gonna happen (at least not in our lifetime). This is a touchy subject with both D.O.'s and D.P.M.'s (The D.O.'s have been questioning this possibility since the begining of time). I really don't know if i have an opinion on it one way or the other, but it all seems to come down to parity (vision 2015). That's about all I want to touch on this subject; i will let the pod students and graduates take it from here.

 

[cool_vkb]

Yes there really is a debate and no it aint gonna happen (at least not in our lifetime). This is a touchy subject with both D.O.'s and D.P.M.'s (The D.O.'s have been questioning this possibility since the begining of time). I really don't know if i have an opinion on it one way or the other, but it all seems to come down to parity (vision 2015). That's about all I want to touch on this subject; i will let the pod students and graduates take it from here.

The best thing will be to make Podiatry more comprehensive (aka increase scope like florida or new mexico) and make it an AGCME accredited residency speciality. and our surgery or other board agencies be disolved or upgraded to the regular MD surgery boards standards.

We should make Podiatry residency an option for MDs/DOs. and instead of 3 yrs we make it 4ys program for them with 1st yr they get to take lower extremity courses, orthotics, biomechanics,etc you know stuff we do in pod school . It will instantly be the most sought speciality in medical world. and we all can benifit from it.

what do we get in return? AGCME residency & standards will make our profession more acceptable to hospitals, boards, general perception among medical community,etc. and no this will not affect the residency shortage. AGCME is having more resources and funding availibility. they can increase as many spots they want to adjust the increase number of medical students who want. Plus its lot better to have competition from medical students than from pod schools who invite kids for interview the next day they apply.you know the schools and standard of students im talking abt.

We will get a more universal scope in terms of patient approach. for example some biased *****s think pods are not capable of prescribing this or that or admit patients,etc. by making it a regular allopathic speciality. we can eliminate these stigmas. a pod can have more autonomy in treating his patients.

This will also open doors for podiatrists who wish to do other specialities. right now even though pods take same classes and have same curriculum in schools like DMU or AZPOD. if they decide tomorrow that may be its internal medicine they always wanted. then they will never get credit for the first 2yrs classes and have to repeat all 4yrs. But if we make podiatry more standardized and equal with regular medical system. then we can take USMLE-1 & USMLE-2 . (common we take most courses. heck we even study from usmle-1 books for our boards). then a Pod can apply to medical school again and can get credit for the first two yrs. and go straight to 3rd yr.

it will make ease in cross training . this will infact benifit our profession. isnt there a doc in flordia who did podiatry then did DO then did Pathology residency and is now the best Podiatric Pathologist in the counrty.his lab solely specializes in podiatric pathologies. we can generate more cross trained docs who can be an asset to our profession.

 

[Darklord]

I like cookj-vkb's ideas, but I won't be a podiatrist for a while.

 

[rom3o]

Lastly, the DPM to MD degree change will not occur because the MD academics out there think podiatry is a joke, so this is going to be a very hard sell to them and others outside the profession.

Is this a fact? If so, how do you explain the fact of big Ortho groups incorporating DPMs into their group?

>4/5 of current pod students wouldn't be able to get into MD school, let alone finish it.

These are some very strong statements. I think there are a large portion of dpm students that apply only to dpm programs, not because they can't get into MD programs... me being one of them (once I do apply). Then again, my interest in becoming a dpm probably has to do with the fact that I currently work as an orthotist.

 

[cool_vkb]

Is this a fact? If so, how do you explain the fact of big Ortho groups incorporating DPMs into their group?



These are some very strong statements. I think there are a large portion of dpm students that apply only to dpm programs, not because they can't get into MD programs... me being one of them (once I do apply). Then again, my interest in becoming a dpm probably has to do with the fact that I currently work as an orthotist.

well atleast there are people i know who were rejected from dental schools,medical schools and even pharmacy schools. and now that they coudnt find anything else they are in podiatry (bcoz of the salary and "Dr..." title feeling ). and suprisingly these are the people who always end up disgruntled. i dont understand why cant they improve their grades/mcats ect and reapply to schools rather than quitting and jumping on podiatry boat. its a very wrong message they are giving to general public.

and this is killing podiatry field in terms of public perception. people label all of us as med school rejects just because some people who coudnt make it to med/dental school decided to join podiatry. now for them the entire profession is seen as a backup option.
The schools should automatically barr admission of people who were rejected from med or other professional schools.

 

[215512]

The schools should automatically barr admission of people who were rejected from med or other professional schools.

haha do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?👎

 

[Darklord]

Oh snap, I hope cool_vkb isn't talking about me.

The more I research podiatry the more I like it (way more than pharmacy). I guess the main attraction in my opinion is the ability to do surgery. Yes, I do realize that podiatry is not a surgical specialty and that it involves the holistic treatment of the foot and ankle, but that makes it all the more appealing. 🙂 I think I would get sick of doing surgery all day. Anyway, I thank all of our preceding podiatrists for improving the training.

I have a different opinion regarding the field changing - admissions comments. It is obvious that people switch fields all the time, within health care as well. For example, there are pharmacists who later go onto medical school. Perhaps, these pharmacists really wanted medicine. MD and DO rejects do come to podiatry as a back up profession, but it the pod schools that let them. I don't know why podiatry school is easy to get into, but you can blame the schools as well for they allow these rejects to join our profession.

These are my uninformed naive comments.

 

[futIDdoc]

To issue and MD degree in the US a school must be LCME accredited. There is no way a pod school would ever get this as the AMA and LCME tightly regulate schools who gain accreditation. No matter how many DPMs are for a change in degree title to MD, it legally cannot happen.

 

[cool_vkb]

haha do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?👎

I know its very irrational and irresponsible but what other options do we have? Dont you want this image of our profession to end.

 

[smartman716]

If you feel this way, get the inferiority complex off your back and go to medical school (aka real doctor school in your mind). Giving an MD to DPM students would denigrate the MD. >4/5 of current pod students wouldn't be able to get into MD school, let alone finish it. Lastly, the DPM to MD degree change will not occur because the MD academics out there think podiatry is a joke, so this is going to be a very hard sell to them and others outside the profession.

With due respect to iceman69 because you are a Podiatry student, I must differ with your opinions, however.
First of all for you to come here to make such a statement is outright offensive and insulting. With my stats and extracurriculars I could have gotten into MD school. A classmate of mine in the incoming class of 2013 had a 4.0 CGPA and a 30 MCAT. There are many students who apply to Podiatry school with graduate/ advance degrees, who can not only commence an MD program but can follow it to completion. I chose to be a DPM not because I couldn't handle an MD curriculum but because it's what I felt was right for me. I was personally asked to apply to the MD school in my home insitution by several medical school faculty members but chose not to do so. I am an academic and I must tell you as I have said before that as a matter of fact academic MD's do not question podiatry nor see it as a joke; as a matter of fact there are DPM'S that are faculty in medical school and train "medical students". Your opinion is misguided. The same way there are students in MD granting institutions who cannot handle a DPM curriculum, there are also students in DPM granting institutions who cannot handle an MD curriculum and may not follow it through to completion.
I personally do not see the need for a degree designator change from DPM to MD. I don't see what the big difference is between a DPM and MD on a lapel or name tag -- it may lie in the eyes of the beholder. What may be of more importance , in my opinion may be attaining licensing parity and making Podiatry more comprehensive and standardized as coolvkb suggested.

 

[MaseratiGT]

The schools should automatically barr admission of people who were rejected from med or other professional schools.

I don't think that this will improve perception of the schools at all. I think it may do the opposite. Our profession needs to hold applicants to higher standards if we want to compete with our allopathic/osteopathic colleagues regarding admission stats. People are rejected for a host of reasons. It doesn't mean that they are poor students; at least not them all. There are a lot of applicants for every seat, at least in the M.D. world.

On topic - our profession has other things to worry about right now; things larger than stroking egos. We need to become physician providers under Medicaid and students need to work for the reinstatement of 20/220. Issues like those are far more relevant to parity than whether we should change our degree to MD.

 

[Feli]

It will never happen. Do you think DPMs can vote for the change and then reissue diplomas that say MD?
It will never ever happen. There could be a combined degree with a medschool.

This is exactly right IMO. Talk of MD degree, PMD degree, etc is nothing new, and it won't end anytime soon.

The bottom line is that our pod school curriculum/rotation training is different from MD or DO setups... and podiatry is obviously much better for knowledge of the foot and ankle. While there is more and more of overlap with MD and DO programs, we are specializing from the start and have a different curriculum and rotation schedule. It's definitely important to have knowledge and appreciation of systemic diseases that your patients will suffer from, but at the end of the day, you're a specialist (just like most MDs and DOs are) and need to be the utmost authority on your area of expertise.

A simple degree change is not the right answer unless the question was simple degree envy. It has a lot more to do with level of training. The main thing holding back podiatry is still the same: a lack of uniform post-graduate training... can you really blame hospitals, insurances, other docs, and patients for being confused when some DPMs were trained to do pantalars and others can't do hammertoes? That will evolve, but it takes a lot of time. In the meantime, my goal is just be to become the best and most competent at what I do. Case logs, competence level, and reputation among colleagues/community will speak much louder for me than simply the initials after my name.

If anything, I'd imagine that you may (*may) eventually see some DPMs with advanced residency/fellowship training and study granted a MD degree similar to dentists who do 4-6yrs of PG oral and maxillofacial surgery training. Again, it'd be basically nothing more than a formality, though.

 

[smartman716]

I don't think that this will improve perception of the schools at all. I think it may do the opposite. Our profession needs to hold applicants to higher standards if we want to compete with our allopathic/osteopathic colleagues regarding admission stats. People are rejected for a host of reasons. It doesn't mean that they are poor students; at least not them all. There are a lot of applicants for every seat, at least in the M.D. world.

On topic - our profession has other things to worry about right now; things larger than stroking egos. We need to become physician providers under Medicaid and students need to work for the reinstatement of 20/220. Issues like those are far more relevant to parity than whether we should change our degree to MD.

👍

 

[MaseratiGT]

Case logs, competence level, and reputation among colleagues/community will speak much louder for me than simply the initials after my name.

Great point, Feli. 👍

 

[air bud]

On topic - our profession has other things to worry about right now; things larger than stroking egos. We need to become physician providers under Medicaid and students need to work for the reinstatement of 20/220. Issues like those are far more relevant to parity than whether we should change our degree to MD.

👍

 

[GymMan]

The only reason I bring this up is, if a DPM was to segway into other things (i.e. - owning a fitness center, writing books, collaborating w/ MD's to do sports med research, etc.) it would open more doors. Therefore, other people in these other professions would realize they aren't limited (due to this training of overall medicine gotten in clinical yrs or residency/internship-type yrs). And thus this would serve to have others (patients AND physicians) take them more serious, and even insurance carriers would see they are "physicians" able to provide overall general medicine care 1st (as ALL MD/DO's are regardless of their "specialty" after med school) and finally specifically podiatric medicine 2ndly.

 

[Paulywog]

The only reason I bring this up is, if a DPM was to segway into other things (i.e. - owning a fitness center, writing books, collaborating w/ MD's to do sports med research, etc.) it would open more doors. Therefore, other people in these other professions would realize they aren't limited (due to this training of overall medicine gotten in clinical yrs or residency/internship-type yrs). And thus this would serve to have others (patients AND physicians) take them more serious, and even insurance carriers would see they are "physicians" able to provide overall general medicine care 1st (as ALL MD/DO's are regardless of their "specialty" after med school) and finally specifically podiatric medicine 2ndly.

Dpms are already doing those things you mentioned. Most dpm bashing I hear is among premeds and students. I never met a doctor who talked bad about podiatry. My status is not defined by what degree I have or what school I went to. Like feli said...ill just get all the training I can and be the best at what I do and the respect will follow. Are you in undergrad or grad school gym man?

 

[215512]

I know its very irrational and irresponsible but what other options do we have? Dont you want this image of our profession to end.

good god man dont you realize that there are plenty of ppl with 29 and 30 and 31 that get rejected everywhere...are yousaying that they arent qualified? please oh please, educate me

 

[cool_vkb]

good god man dont you realize that there are plenty of ppl with 29 and 30 and 31 that get rejected everywhere...are yousaying that they arent qualified? please oh please, educate me

They are more than qualified and i have no doubt they will ace podiatry school. but it doesnt matter if you have a 4.0 GPA or 44 in MCAT. My problem is people running to podiatry camp after getting kicked from everywhere else. why should our profession be a backup dumping ground.

look at the threads in prepod forums itself. after getting rejected from all schools they now post in mid march or feb asking " Is it too late" or "are my stats good enough" or "Did i missed the bus or can i still hop in". this is clear cut backup option. We dont need this broad label that we are a backup option profession.

A lot of hardworking students join podiatry just because they like podiatry. just because of those people we all are seen by a good number of people as students who coudnt get in medical school and thats why are in podiatry.

People should join podiatry because they love podiatry and not because they coudnt get into their first or second choice profession and then coming to podiatry in the last.

 

[cool_vkb]

....

 

[PoddyMan]

Our profession needs to hold applicants to higher standards if we want to compete with our allopathic/osteopathic colleagues regarding admission stats.

Think about this: the podiatric medicine curriculum (didactic) is in many respects harder than the MD or DO curriculum, in that a DPM student has all the same basic science courses and, on top of that, have numerous hours of additional podiatric-specific content. So, the fact that many (if not most) DPM students eventually graduate under these conditions, with an average GPA & MCAT well below that of the MD or DO student, says a LOT, IMHO.

As for competing with MDs & DOs: the point is not to compete, but that podiatrists be defined as physicians who treat patients in the physician’s specialty without restrictions.

A DPM will never be an MD unless they go to and successfully complete an allopathic program. Even though the DPM didactic training may be similar, the clinical training is nowhere near it (yet).

 

[dtrack22]

This post has exploded recently so I'm going to try and catch up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman69
Lastly, the DPM to MD degree change will not occur because the MD academics out there think podiatry is a joke, so this is going to be a very hard sell to them and others outside the profession.

Is this a fact? If so, how do you explain the fact of big Ortho groups incorporating DPMs into their group?

You are an orthosist...stick to things of that nature. Ortho groups hire Pods because they can pay them less than HALF of what they would have to pay an MD with a F&A fellowship. That's just good business IMO.

People should join podiatry because they love podiatry and not because they coudnt get into their first or second choice profession and then coming to podiatry in the last.

While i agree that pod students need to know what they are getting into when applying for pod programs, I have to agree more with thetachi 😱
You are speculating that all of these applicants know nothing of podiatry (no research on the profession, shadowing, etc.). Maybe their intentions were to get into an MD program because, while they like podiatry, they aren't 100% sure that's what they want to do. With the MD training they can still do ortho and be a F&A surgeon, or they may fall in love with gastro (its always the anal ones)...the point is that the MD degree gives them options where the DPM does not. Now, if those people are borderline MD applicants then I WANT them sitting with me in pod school as opposed to the other yahoos on here who are applying with 18-20's on the MCATs.

 

[MaseratiGT]

The only reason I bring this up is, if a DPM was to segway into other things (i.e. - owning a fitness center, writing books, collaborating w/ MD's to do sports med research, etc.) it would open more doors. Therefore, other people in these other professions would realize they aren't limited (due to this training of overall medicine gotten in clinical yrs or residency/internship-type yrs). And thus this would serve to have others (patients AND physicians) take them more serious, and even insurance carriers would see they are "physicians" able to provide overall general medicine care 1st (as ALL MD/DO's are regardless of their "specialty" after med school) and finally specifically podiatric medicine 2ndly.

Think about this: the podiatric medicine curriculum (didactic) is in many respects harder than the MD or DO curriculum, in that a DPM student has all the same basic science courses and, on top of that, have numerous hours of additional podiatric-specific content. So, the fact that many (if not most) DPM students eventually graduate under these conditions, with an average GPA & MCAT well below that of the MD or DO student, says a LOT, IMHO.

As for competing with MDs & DOs: the point is not to compete, but that podiatrists be defined as physicians who treat patients in the physician’s specialty without restrictions.

A DPM will never be an MD unless they go to and successfully complete an allopathic program. Even though the DPM didactic training may be similar, the clinical training is nowhere near it (yet).

Poddy - "Competing" was a poor word choice. The point I was trying to make was - We want our standards and competencies to match our allopathic and osteopathic counterparts beginning from admissions to the point when we graduate residency.

GymMan - You are assuming that because someone has an MD or DO after their name, they can go out into the world after their residency and do WHATEVER they want. Specialists have a scope that they practice within, just like we do. People argue this point with points like, "Blah, blah we can write for birth control and justify it and blah," but you don't go to your cardiologist for your brain surgery.

In many states, we are seen as physicians already. How would our profession look, if our leaders thought like you. Just dump the last few decades of work of achieving parity, give up, and hope the AMA lets us convert to MDs.

You don't need ANY initials behind your name to open a fitness center or write books! However, an MD behind your name doesn't signify your a specialist. DPM does. Our patients and colleagues know we are the foot and ankle specialists.

 

[215512]

They are more than qualified and i have no doubt they will ace podiatry school. but it doesnt matter if you have a 4.0 GPA or 44 in MCAT. My problem is people running to podiatry camp after getting kicked from everywhere else. why should our profession be a backup dumping ground.

look at the threads in prepod forums itself. after getting rejected from all schools they now post in mid march or feb asking " Is it too late" or "are my stats good enough" or "Did i missed the bus or can i still hop in". this is clear cut backup option. We dont need this broad label that we are a backup option profession.

A lot of hardworking students join podiatry just because they like podiatry. just because of those people we all are seen by a good number of people as students who coudnt get in medical school and thats why are in podiatry.

People should join podiatry because they love podiatry and not because they coudnt get into their first or second choice profession and then coming to podiatry in the last.

well of course i agree with THIS, you worded it like people going into pod school arent good enough to get in and succeed at md school...or do for that matter.

just how I interpreted it, glad we clearedit up, now i can move on with my life....jk

 

[215512]

double post my internet sucks

 

[dtrack22]

Our patients and colleagues know we are the foot and ankle specialists.

This might be the most important part of this thread, the part that most people are trying to articulate but a couple of you aren't getting. Other physicians and patients who have been to a podiatrist (or referred to one) know the value of this profession. Don't listen to your pre-med friends...from my limited perspective their opinions aren't indicative of the rest of the medical community.

 

[rom3o]

Most dpm bashing I hear is among premeds and students. I never met a doctor who talked bad about podiatry.

Unfortunately this is not true. There's this one F&A MD that has referred numerous patients to us. While talking to the patient, they told me, "oh yeah I'm seeing Dr. xxxx for a second opinion, I went to see a podiatrist at first. When I told him I went to see a dpm first, he got mad at me and yelled never to see a podiatrist..." 😱

I haven't met this Dr. face-to-face but a lot of people mention that he is a conceited jerk.

Also, my uncle was at an orthopedist the other day and said he saw a sign posted that said "We can do everything a podiatrist can do"

Sounds like someone is getting a wee bit defensive

 

[air bud]

my bro is a spine surgeon and he would go to a pod for F/A.

 

[rom3o]

I'm not saying all docs are like that, obviously. I'm sure there are a good number that are conceited a-holes though.

 

[smartman716]

Poddy - "Competing" was a poor word choice. The point I was trying to make was - We want our standards and competencies to match our allopathic and osteopathic counterparts beginning from admissions to the point when we graduate residency.

GymMan - You are assuming that because someone has an MD or DO after their name, they can go out into the world after their residency and do WHATEVER they want. Specialists have a scope that they practice within, just like we do. People argue this point with points like, "Blah, blah we can write for birth control and justify it and blah," but you don't go to your cardiologist for your brain surgery.

In many states, we are seen as physicians already. How would our profession look, if our leaders thought like you. Just dump the last few decades of work of achieving parity, give up, and hope the AMA lets us convert to MDs.

You don't need ANY initials behind your name to open a fitness center or write books! However, an MD behind your name doesn't signify your a specialist. DPM does. Our patients and colleagues know we are the foot and ankle specialists.

In many states, we are seen as physicians already. How would our profession look, if our leaders thought like you. Just dump the last few decades of work of achieving parity, give up, and hope the AMA lets us convert to MDs.
http://www.gapma.com/PracticeAct/43.35.3.htm
And to allude to this point:

http://www.gapma.com/PracticeAct/43.35.3.htm

7) 'Podiatrist' means a physician and surgeon of the human foot and leg who is subject to this chapter

 

[futIDdoc]

podiatrist are technically not physicians and it is illegal to present yourself as one. To be a physician you need to earn a medical degree from a school recognized by either WHO Directory of Medical Schools or the FAIMER International Medical Education Directory. Podiatrists CAN present themselves as podiatric physicians.

 

[smartman716]

podiatrist are technically not physicians and it is illegal to present yourself as one. To be a physician you need to earn a medical degree from a school recognized by either WHO Directory of Medical Schools or the FAIMER International Medical Education Directory. Podiatrists CAN present themselves as podiatric physicians.

I don't see what your point is. Why are you quoting from Wikipedia? The GA practice acts states Physician and Surgeon " of the human foot and leg" explicitly. You are on a tangent, the point wasn't that Podiatrists advertise themselves as "Physicians".

 

[jonwill]

podiatrist are technically not physicians and it is illegal to present yourself as one. To be a physician you need to earn a medical degree from a school recognized by either WHO Directory of Medical Schools or the FAIMER International Medical Education Directory. Podiatrists CAN present themselves as podiatric physicians.

That is an interesting definition and one that I have never heard before. This debate comes up about every six months or so. Where did you get it? For arguments sake, I received my doctorate of podiatric medicine from Des Moines University which is on both WHO and FAIMER. Same with students who graduate from Scholl, Midwestern, Temple, and Western. So what now???

I'm just fine with the term "podiatric physician" as I feel it is a perfect representation. But realize that for many different insurance companies as well as hospital systems, podiatrists are "staff physicians" and are members of medical staff (and even CMO's). At my program, I am termed a "resident physician". But I guess in the end, as long as I can write my Rx's and hold medical and surgical privileges at hospitals (like any MD or DO might I add), you can call me whatever you want!

 

[smartman716]

To jonwill:

 

[smartman716]

podiatrist are technically not physicians and it is illegal to present yourself as one. To be a physician you need to earn a medical degree from a school recognized by either WHO Directory of Medical Schools or the FAIMER International Medical Education Directory. Podiatrists CAN present themselves as podiatric physicians.

FYI from a nationally recognized hospital:

http://www.emoryhealthcare.org/departments/ortho/staff.html

 

[G0dFather]

That DPM is from NYCPM !! lol... on a serious note ... he has orthopedic surgery under his name ... does that mean he did a fellowship in it ?

 

[Coastie]

I know there's going to be a ton of backlash here but short and sweet, will this probably happen or be voted down? If it does occur and DPMs can become MDs, I'm all for it. If you get the MD behind your name (though many will say it'll basterdize the product, which is untrue) it'll open doors, patients, insurance revenue, etc. to ALL DPMs. Don't vote against this, current DPMs, if you want a great chance to upgrade yourselves. It will diversify those DPMs that want to become fitness moguls or open a retail shoe business, etc. Now don't start the yada yada about "we should remain DPMs tried and true to our calling as feet men". Realize this novel opportunity in YOUR lifetime to expand the profession, and make it viable for all regardless of HOW they choose to use this title. Again, don't limit based on some obscure need in which you think you need to adhere to some "set of principles" solely for the reason that you think its "in the best interest of the field" yet have no logical reason why this is so. Think on that for a moment before you dismiss my sound reasoning. Thanks.

👍

 

[GymMan]

👍

Coast, you agree or just mocking me? I still think my reasons make sense. How can it hurt to upgrade, alot like DO's SHOULD have in the 60s when Cali gave them chances to sellout to become MD's yet many said no. DO's STILL get asked "who or what to hell they are?" to this day. I've seen it, and these same patients will opt for an MD over them. Realize even if your "peers" respect you they don't pay nor see you. PATIENTS SEE YOU not your peers.

 

[devilpup]

Coast, you agree or just mocking me? I still think my reasons make sense. How can it hurt to upgrade, alot like DO's SHOULD have in the 60s when Cali gave them chances to sellout to become MD's yet many said no. DO's STILL get asked "who or what to hell they are?" to this day. I've seen it, and these same patients will opt for an MD over them. Realize even if your "peers" respect you they don't pay nor see you. PATIENTS SEE YOU not your peers.

"upgrade?" "sellout?" "respect?"

WTF

You smell like a troll.

If what you desire is respect, then earn it-- become a hard-working, competent professional. In any field, respect is earned by your skill, knowledge and level of professionalism and not by the initials after your last name (e.g. MD, DPM, PharmD, etc.). If a patient prefers an MD over a DPM or DO, so what? if you're the best at what you do, its their loss.

Using the word “sellout” when referring to the old and boring DO vs MD debate, simply makes you sound like a tool.

Feli, your posts are always golden:

In the meantime, my goal is just be to become the best and most competent at what I do. Case logs, competence level, and reputation among colleagues/community will speak much louder for me than simply the initials after my name.

 

[MaseratiGT]

Coast, you agree or just mocking me? I still think my reasons make sense. How can it hurt to upgrade, alot like DO's SHOULD have in the 60s when Cali gave them chances to sellout to become MD's yet many said no. DO's STILL get asked "who or what to hell they are?" to this day. I've seen it, and these same patients will opt for an MD over them. Realize even if your "peers" respect you they don't pay nor see you. PATIENTS SEE YOU not your peers.

Your initial reasons for the degree change make no sense. You posted that DPMs should become MDs so they can open shoe stores and fitness gyms.

I would say that the majority of us don't want to open shoe stores or gyms because we are SURGEONS.

And exactly how is a "sellout" a role model for a profession or helping to upgrade it? Sellouts negate all their work ethic and professional pride in order to appease. I'm proud to be a podiatry student, as I'm sure the majority of us are. And we are more proud of the docs before us who have been fighting tooth and nail to help our profession move forward, help us as students with our issues, and who didn't jump the wagon when things got tough. It is because of people like them that our profession has evolved into what it is. I'm glad they didn't sellout; because if I wanted MD after my name, I would have gone to allopathic school.

 

[GymMan]

Your initial reasons for the degree change make no sense. You posted that DPMs should become MDs so they can open shoe stores and fitness gyms.

I would say that the majority of us don't want to open shoe stores or gyms because we are SURGEONS.

And exactly how is a "sellout" a role model for a profession or helping to upgrade it? Sellouts negate all their work ethic and professional pride in order to appease. I'm proud to be a podiatry student, as I'm sure the majority of us are. And we are more proud of the docs before us who have been fighting tooth and nail to help our profession move forward, help us as students with our issues, and who didn't jump the wagon when things got tough. It is because of people like them that our profession has evolved into what it is. I'm glad they didn't sellout; because if I wanted MD after my name, I would have gone to allopathic school.

1st of all I'm NOT a troll you guys. I have a legit beef here. Maybe shoe or fitness isn't the best example of why. Maybe its because patient's still prefer an MD (even over the coveted DO which gets 'equal acclaim' supposedly in ALL walks of medicine). But this isn't the argument. I'm contending, that you may have all the skills & proficiency you want - yet won't get patients because, when I look in a phone book I look MD ONLY for certain things (as I'm sorry to say the LARGE amount of people still do.)

You're going to have tons of boomers who respect MD's from their yrs growing up. Sorry but my idea to become an MD from a DPM would serve the profession best. If I couldn't get into an MD school yet desired a better career than nursing or physical therapy I'd choose DPM. But this is not a freak event. I'm sure MANY kids still go DPM for this idea. Upgrade to the MD & tons more will flock this way with huge credentials, & thus upgrade DPM's while giving them the clout of an MD - in the eye of ALL who deal with them.

 

[tmoney]

1st of all I'm NOT a troll you guys. I have a legit beef here. Maybe shoe or fitness isn't the best example of why. Maybe its because patient's still prefer an MD (even over the coveted DO which gets 'equal acclaim' supposedly in ALL walks of medicine). But this isn't the argument. I'm contending, that you may have all the skills & proficiency you want - yet won't get patients because, when I look in a phone book I look MD ONLY for certain things (as I'm sorry to say the LARGE amount of people still do.)

You're going to have tons of boomers who respect MD's from their yrs growing up. Sorry but my idea to become an MD from a DPM would serve the profession best. If I couldn't get into an MD school yet desired a better career than nursing or physical therapy I'd choose DPM. But this is not a freak event. I'm sure MANY kids still go DPM for this idea. Upgrade to the MD & tons more will flock this way with huge credentials, & thus upgrade DPM's while giving them the clout of an MD - in the eye of ALL who deal with them.

1. exactly, "MD only for certain things"... when people are looking for foot care, they are looking for podiatrists. most patients, or lay people, do not know the difference between an MD or DPM, nor do they care. they want the highest possible level of care.

2. what the **** is the "clout of an MD"?? last time i checked, any health professional who is granted the legal right to perform procedures and prescribe medication for patients, be it dentists, podiatrists, osteopaths, or physicians, is granted that right because they have met certain criteria for their branch of medicine they are providing care for.

ask the parent of a child with clubfoot if they are greatful for their podiatrist. ask a diabetic patient whos whole leg was saved from amputation by a podiatrist who chose options beyond an AKA, if they are greatful. ask a patient whos foot was run over by a work related vehicle if they are greatful to their podiatric surgeon. ask the 85yo woman who has been kept ambulating for 10 yrs because of her podiatrist, if she has been greatful.

podiatrists fill a very clear niche in medicine. as history went, we created our own degree and our own credentialing process etc. i am proud to be a part of a profession so dedicated to the welfare of our patients. just because we werent swallowed up in the 1930s by the AMA monopoly on medicine doesnt mean anything to me. if people seeking foot care bypassed DPMs based soley on their degree, or because they dont have MD clout, the MDs would have filled the niche. They didn't, because the level of care we provide is the same level of any other medical specialty.

you obviously would be ashamed to be a podiatrist, its evident in all of your posts. if the chip on your shoulder is too big, go to medical school, plain and simple. but to come in here and degrade the degree we have/are working very hard towards is insulting. we are proud of what we are, and are proud to stay what we are, podiatrists. we offer the highest level of foot care possible, and if you are ashamed of that, please dont join the profession.

 

[dtrack22]

First, to GymMan...your story about DO's maintaining their degree and not switching to MD's makes you sound ignorant. Do you know anything about the DO philosophy and how they practice medicine?

Second

1. exactly, "MD only for certain things"... when people are looking for foot care, they are looking for podiatrists. most patients, or lay people, do not know the difference between an MD or DPM, nor do they care. they want the highest possible level of care.

I am an intelligent human being, not the brightest, but intelligent nonetheless. I had no idea that a podiatrist had different initials behind their name until I got on SDN during my pre-allo days. tmoney is exactly right in that people consider podiatrists to be "foot DOCTORS" and know where to seek treatment without thinking twice of whether this pod attended an allopathic medical school or not.

 

[GymMan]

Again, you're missing my point. DPMs can remain doing what they choose, be it surgery or treating wounds, etc. Those that want to branch out and do other things like write, open sports centers, retail outlets, etc. can do what they like with this newly conferred 'MD'.

I'm not advocating doing anything different other than putting initials behind their names informing the public that, they have INDEED achieved the best education possible. Everyone (lay included) know the rigors of MD training. Not all are familiar with DPM training. For all they know, DPMs train like Dental Hygientists. I'm not saying that they do, I'm saying perception continues to draw patients.

Sure you'll get people but certainly (you can bet on this) you'll get a TON more, when you give the profession an "equal" standardization as did Allopathic in recognizing Osteopathic yrs ago.

 

[GymMan]

First, to GymMan...your story about DO's maintaining their degree and not switching to MD's makes you sound ignorant. Do you know anything about the DO philosophy and how they practice medicine?

Second


I am an intelligent human being, not the brightest, but intelligent nonetheless. I had no idea that a podiatrist had different initials behind their name until I got on SDN during my pre-allo days. tmoney is exactly right in that people consider podiatrists to be "foot DOCTORS" and know where to seek treatment without thinking twice of whether this pod attended an allopathic medical school or not.

Yes but many insurance carriers (the guys paying YOUR bills - unless you're going to get alimony from your MD ex-wife but that's another story...) don't. Many DPMS can't get hospital privileges yet. The list vs remaining DPM in name, continues to mount against you. Have you EVER seen anyone question what an MD was? Medical Doctor or what else could it possibly conjure to the avg human? But DPM? Some think its like DC or DPT or Doctor of Philosophy and Mind/Mental Health. Hell the list goes on. Where do you live on the moon?

 

[NatCh]

Those that want to branch out and do other things like write, open sports centers, retail outlets, etc. can do what they like with this newly conferred 'MD'.

Pursuing a degree in English or an MBA would be more appropriate if your goal is to write books or open a business that is not a medical practice. These things are very tangential to practicing medicine. I think that if someone were to pursue an M.D. degree (or any medical degree) simply for clout or status, then he or she would end up miserable.

Edit: Is the premise to advertise that your store or gym is "M.D. owned" in order to bring in more customers? From a legal standpoint I don't know if you'd want to advertise your interest in any side businesses that you own. The more layers of separation you have, the more difficult it is to get at your holdings. That's one of the reasons docs work as a Private Corporation (P.C.) rather than as a sole proprietor. It legally separates your existence as a doctor from your existence as a person, so if someone sues it is more difficult to get at your personal belongings (such as your house). For instance, if you want to open up a shoe store you'd probably want to start a completely separate corporation without your corporate physician title. Also, if your retail store or gym fails financially you wouldn't want the bankruptcy to take down your practice. Even if you want to own the building in which you open your medical practice, you'll probably want to start a separate real estate company and then lease space to your physician corporate entity. I know several docs who own businesses in addition to their practice, and none of them openly advertise their ownership. You also wouldn't want to give any unscrupulous customers any bright ideas about to getting into your deep pockets.

I could see how writing a book with MD credentials would help though. If you were to write a fitness book as a DPM, then having a DPM doesn't really add to your credentials as a cardiac rehab expert whereas someone might think having an MD does.