DPM title to MD change = realistic soon?

[MaseratiGT]

Again, you're missing my point. DPMs can remain doing what they choose, be it surgery or treating wounds, etc. Those that want to branch out and do other things like write, open sports centers, retail outlets, etc. can do what they like with this newly conferred 'MD'.

I'm not advocating doing anything different other than putting initials behind their names informing the public that, they have INDEED achieved the best education possible. Everyone (lay included) know the rigors of MD training. Not all are familiar with DPM training. For all they know, DPMs train like Dental Hygientists. I'm not saying that they do, I'm saying perception continues to draw patients.

Sure you'll get people but certainly (you can bet on this) you'll get a TON more, when you give the profession an "equal" standardization as did Allopathic in recognizing Osteopathic yrs ago.

I don't think anyone is missing your point. I reiterated it in my last post, and you said the EXACT same thing in this post; that we would have a better time opening stores with MD behind our name. That is the most inconsequential argument for a degree change.

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[dtrack22]

Yes but many insurance carriers (the guys paying YOUR bills - unless you're going to get alimony from your MD ex-wife but that's another story...) don't. Many DPMS can't get hospital privileges yet.

Score one for GymMan. This is the only valid argument you've presented thus far. While I think that hospital privileges are becoming less of an issue in most states/areas, I can understand the insurance beef. However, from what i've gathered on this forum and in my shadowing experience, as long as you have your board certification you are just fine as far as getting carriers.

The list vs remaining DPM in name, continues to mount against you.

This sentence doesn't really make sense. Regardless, I think the trend is in reverse of what you just stated. Issues which were once "mountains" blocking the success of many DPMs are not continuing to grow, rather they are starting to crumble as the big names in podiatry continue to provide the best F&A care and research in the country.

Have you EVER seen anyone question what an MD was? Medical Doctor or what else could it possibly conjure to the avg human? But DPM? Some think its like DC or DPT or Doctor of Philosophy and Mind/Mental Health. Hell the list goes on. Where do you live on the moon?

No, I have not seen anyone question what an MD was...although I have seen plenty of people question the doc's treatment plan (thank you WebMD, only now can the common cold be self diagnosed as lung cancer... watched a lady tell an MD that in his office). On the other hand i have NEVER seen a patient or doctor (and I've been in one of the best ortho facilities in the northwest...they have an F&A guy who refers to local pods!) question where a DPM came from. Those stories are limited to very FEW, arrogant doctors who share that same opinion about other medical specialties and even inferior docs in their own field. Oh, and pre-med/med students who have yet to learn a pods place in the medical community.

As for living on the moon...that would put me over 200,000 miles away from people like you. Hey, a guy can dream right?

 

[SomeDoc]

We should make Podiatry residency an option for MDs/DOs. and instead of 3 yrs we make it 4ys program for them with 1st yr they get to take lower extremity courses, orthotics, biomechanics,etc you know stuff we do in pod school . It will instantly be the most sought speciality in medical world. and we all can benifit from it.

I shadowed a DPM for a day, and was intrigued by the surgical aspects of the profession. It would be a very attractive option to medical students if it were open to MD/DO grads.

 

[Peptoboy]

I shadowed a DPM for a day, and was intrigued by the surgical aspects of the profession. It would be a very attractive option to medical students if it were open to MD/DO grads.

🙂The surgical aspects of the profession are open to MD/DO grads, its called Foot and ankle orthopaedic fellowship.

 

[NatCh]

isnt there a doc in flordia who did podiatry then did DO then did Pathology residency and is now the best Podiatric Pathologist in the counrty.his lab solely specializes in podiatric pathologies.

FYI: Brad Bakotic, DPM, DO
http://www.bakopathology.com/web/our_doctors.asp?PID=testimonials

 

[215512]

As for living on the moon...that would put me over 200,000 miles away from people like you. Hey, a guy can dream right?

👍

 

[215512]

FYI: Brad Bakotic, DPM, DO
http://www.bakopathology.com/web/our_doctors.asp?PID=testimonials

man that guy is 1/1000000! his credentials are amazing, that guy probably can help so many people, and his earning potential is probably in the millions....that is one hell of an exception to the rule...im impressed

 

[MossPoh]

With due respect to iceman69 because you are a Podiatry student, I must differ with your opinions, however.
First of all for you to come here to make such a statement is outright offensive and insulting. With my stats and extracurriculars I could have gotten into MD school. A classmate of mine in the incoming class of 2013 had a 4.0 CGPA and a 30 MCAT. There are many students who apply to Podiatry school with graduate/ advance degrees, who can not only commence an MD program but can follow it to completion. I chose to be a DPM not because I couldn't handle an MD curriculum but because it's what I felt was right for me. I was personally asked to apply to the MD school in my home insitution by several medical school faculty members but chose not to do so. I am an academic and I must tell you as I have said before that as a matter of fact academic MD's do not question podiatry nor see it as a joke; as a matter of fact there are DPM'S that are faculty in medical school and train "medical students". Your opinion is misguided. The same way there are students in MD granting institutions who cannot handle a DPM curriculum, there are also students in DPM granting institutions who cannot handle an MD curriculum and may not follow it through to completion.
I personally do not see the need for a degree designator change from DPM to MD. I don't see what the big difference is between a DPM and MD on a lapel or name tag -- it may lie in the eyes of the beholder. What may be of more importance , in my opinion may be attaining licensing parity and making Podiatry more comprehensive and standardized as coolvkb suggested.

That doesn't change the fact that many don't pursue medicine because they wouldn't have a shot and podiatry is seen as an alternative. This isn't knocking podiatry at all. I think it is a cool field BUT before one even considers the idea of changing letter degrees, one needs to do a lot of things...but then it wouldn't be podiatry school. It'd just be medical school. The DO degree has a little more legitimate shot of a conversion happening because, with the exception of OMT, the curriculum is exactly the same and they do all the same things.

Honestly, I know people that probably could've gone to medical school as well but chose podiatry, PA, nursing, pharmacy, etc. I also know a girl that NEVER considered podiatry until she got rejected from every med school, applied late this year and got in to two schools. She had a 3.4 and a 21 on mcat (her 2nd try was an 18). Thankfully, she isn't going because she realized it wasn't what she wanted and she rather just get her mcat up but you do have those people in podiatry. With very few exceptions, you will not find someone with such stats in most medical schools. Does this mean I think podiatry school is easy? Hell no. I think it is just as stressful as med school and that the training has come a long way, but until their admission criteria start showing they want the best and the brightest premeds will always consider it a "backup".

 

[GymMan]

Thanks NatCh. Very nice help on the last page here. I understand things better from you.

As far you all, I've been reading Pod Management mag for like 2+ yrs now. Dr Block the editor, thinks DPMs should get the MD. Are you going to argue with him? I hope some of the pod students or attendings, can vouch for this. I think it was part of Vision 2015 or at least mentioned in conjunction with it. I'm not making this up. Thanks again to NatCh for at least affirming the MD can't "hurt" a DPM, can it? Again, how can having MORE credentialing (even if just to get 5 more patients or another insurance to carry you) hurt a DPM? I don't understand the reluctance still. 😕

 

[GymMan]

man that guy is 1/1000000! his credentials are amazing, that guy probably can help so many people, and his earning potential is probably in the millions....that is one hell of an exception to the rule...im impressed

Instead of being impressed, why not try to BE that individual. He set a high bar, now you need to attain it and shoot for higher. It's all about leadership in ANY field of life you choose. Be the best damn person at what you do. Even if it's a garbage collector.

 

[GymMan]

That doesn't change the fact that many don't pursue medicine because they wouldn't have a shot and podiatry is seen as an alternative. This isn't knocking podiatry at all. I think it is a cool field BUT before one even considers the idea of changing letter degrees, one needs to do a lot of things...but then it wouldn't be podiatry school. It'd just be medical school. The DO degree has a little more legitimate shot of a conversion happening because, with the exception of OMT, the curriculum is exactly the same and they do all the same things.

Honestly, I know people that probably could've gone to medical school as well but chose podiatry, PA, nursing, pharmacy, etc. I also know a girl that NEVER considered podiatry until she got rejected from every med school, applied late this year and got in to two schools. She had a 3.4 and a 21 on mcat (her 2nd try was an 18). Thankfully, she isn't going because she realized it wasn't what she wanted and she rather just get her mcat up but you do have those people in podiatry. With very few exceptions, you will not find someone with such stats in most medical schools. Does this mean I think podiatry school is easy? Hell no. I think it is just as stressful as med school and that the training has come a long way, but until their admission criteria start showing they want the best and the brightest premeds will always consider it a "backup".

Unfortunately their salary will continue to lag behind most MDs though. I think the ONLY way to upgrade paychecks is to add credentials. MD would put DPMs clearly on the map of all physicians, insurance people, patients, etc.

 

[MaseratiGT]

Thanks NatCh. Very nice help on the last page here. I understand things better from you.

As far you all, I've been reading Pod Management mag for like 2+ yrs now. Dr Block the editor, thinks DPMs should get the MD. Are you going to argue with him? I hope some of the pod students or attendings, can vouch for this. I think it was part of Vision 2015 or at least mentioned in conjunction with it. I'm not making this up. Thanks again to NatCh for at least affirming the MD can't "hurt" a DPM, can it? Again, how can having MORE credentialing (even if just to get 5 more patients or another insurance to carry you) hurt a DPM? I don't understand the reluctance still. 😕

I have the greatest respect for Dr. Block, but believe it or not, there are established podiatrists who disagree with him. Just because a fantastic doctor like Dr. Block argues for a point, doesn't mean the rest of the world must agree on that point. Don't use Appeal to Authority fallacies to argue your point.

Vision 2015 does not include us switching degrees. Vision 2015 has EVERYTHING to do with PARITY, which are two entirely different beasts.

Nat gave a doctor who got a DO instead of an MD. In your world, they should sell out with us and join the "Degree Envy" bandwagon. And he STILL had DPM tagged to his name. From your pervious posts, we can assume that DPM + DO is a recipe for disaster because EVERYONE only wants to go to MDs. Nat's example doesn't even help your cause. 🙄

What Dr. Bakotic has accomplished and your idea of canning the DPM degree are two different things!

 

[GymMan]

I have the greatest respect for Dr. Block, but believe it or not, there are established podiatrists who disagree with him. Just because a fantastic doctor like Dr. Block argues for a point, doesn't mean the rest of the world must agree on that point. Don't use Appeal to Authority fallacies to argue your point.

Vision 2015 does not include us switching degrees. Vision 2015 has EVERYTHING to do with PARITY, which are two entirely different beasts.

Nat gave a doctor who got a DO instead of an MD. In your world, they should sell out with us and join the "Degree Envy" bandwagon. And he STILL had DPM tagged to his name. From your pervious posts, we can assume that DPM + DO is a recipe for disaster because EVERYONE only wants to go to MDs. Nat's example doesn't even help your cause. 🙄

What Dr. Bakotic has accomplished and your idea of canning the DPM degree are two different things!

Reread NatCh's post where he ends it by saying an MD would help in writing books. It is clearly stated there by him, not I.

 

[GymMan]

Pursuing a degree in English or an MBA would be more appropriate if your goal is to write books or open a business that is not a medical practice. These things are very tangential to practicing medicine. I think that if someone were to pursue an M.D. degree (or any medical degree) simply for clout or status, then he or she would end up miserable.

Edit: Is the premise to advertise that your store or gym is "M.D. owned" in order to bring in more customers? From a legal standpoint I don't know if you'd want to advertise your interest in any side businesses that you own. The more layers of separation you have, the more difficult it is to get at your holdings. That's one of the reasons docs work as a Private Corporation (P.C.) rather than as a sole proprietor. It legally separates your existence as a doctor from your existence as a person, so if someone sues it is more difficult to get at your personal belongings (such as your house). For instance, if you want to open up a shoe store you'd probably want to start a completely separate corporation without your corporate physician title. Also, if your retail store or gym fails financially you wouldn't want the bankruptcy to take down your practice. Even if you want to own the building in which you open your medical practice, you'll probably want to start a separate real estate company and then lease space to your physician corporate entity. I know several docs who own businesses in addition to their practice, and none of them openly advertise their ownership. You also wouldn't want to give any unscrupulous customers any bright ideas about to getting into your deep pockets.

I could see how writing a book with MD credentials would help though. If you were to write a fitness book as a DPM, then having a DPM doesn't really add to your credentials as a cardiac rehab expert whereas someone might think having an MD does.

Maserati, it is CLEARLY stated here in the last paragraph.

 

[MaseratiGT]

Maserati, it is CLEARLY stated here in the last paragraph.

I'm not arguing against Nat's point. I'm arguing against yours. I never said that getting extra credentials hurts a podiatrist, which is NOT what you wrote in your first posting. When I replied to your post, 3 above, you didn't say that you were using his argument to bolster your claim that an MD will help us get that book deal. You said, "Thanks again to NatCh for at least affirming the MD can't "hurt" a DPM, can it? Again, how can having MORE credentialing (even if just to get 5 more patients or another insurance to carry you) hurt a DPM?" So, how are those correlated?

If one is to write a book, I believe it should be about something that that person knows a lot about. DPMs still know the most about the foot and ankle. If you write a book, and it's words are actually worth something, people will read it, despite the credentials.

Even if I agreed with your last post, which I do not, you can't provide any other cogent argument for switching to MD other than writing books. That isn't a good enough reason. Uprooting an entire educational process, that is making advances, doesn't provide stability. It would create dissidence and fracture our profession. You would have those who wanted to stay DPMs and those who wanted to switch. This is about educating the public, which is a far easier task than switching us to MDs. If instead of you appealing to an online forum to, as you put it, "vote" for credential switching, but instead you educated your undergrad college pre-health society about podiatry, that would have a greater impact. But you're just trolling, as usual, so my words are wasted.

I'll say it again; The clinical skills and personality will bring in those extra 5+ patients. Being defined as physicians under medicaid is a huge step toward parity.

 

[templepodnc]

The whole debate of switching degree names has never made sense to me in the first place. Sure while you are in school you have to explain sometimes frequently what a DPM stands for etc., but once you are out in the real world of healtchare no one cares. If you are a good doctor, people will come to you and other doctors will refer to you. Heck, a lot of patients won't even realize that a DPM is separate from a MD when they are seeing you in your office.

I think there is a crop of students/practicing pods that always wanted to go the MD route and couldn't get in so now they want to get in the MD club the backdoor way. The only thing we should be working for is parity, a DPM should be paid the same amount as a MD for the same procedure. We should have a universal scope. Besides that, switching to the MD credential is just stupid and a waste of time.

As far as writing a book on cardiac rehab, I would think being a cardiologist or cardiac rehab expert would be the best credential for that.

 

[air bud]

I think there is a crop of students/practicing pods that always wanted to go the MD route and couldn't get in so now they want to get in the MD club the backdoor way. The only thing we should be working for is parity, a DPM should be paid the same amount as a MD for the same procedure. We should have a universal scope. Besides that, switching to the MD credential is just stupid and a waste of time.

quote]
👍👍👍

 

[iceman69]

I stand by my previous statements. Numbers do not lie. 21-25 average MCAT (with 25 probably being too high) will not get one into MD school. The obsession with parity is silly. Medicaid pays ****. No one in the real world wants to take a lot of medicaid pts. I don't think that if Vison 2015 is realized that it will do much to benefit the average podiatrist. You still do bunions, hammertoes, C&C, and orthotics if you're an average podiatrist. It may make it easier to regularly do complicated rearfoot/ankle procedures but I doubt that. Most hospitals won't let pods take ankle fx because ortho gets first dibs and ankle fxs are very profitable to fix if you're good at them. As medicine becomes less profitable you're going to see ortho send podiatry the pain in the ass foot surgeries, and keep all the easy cases to make more money. This trend has already started.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

I stand by my previous statements. Numbers do not lie. 21-25 average MCAT (with 25 probably being too high) will not get one into MD school.

Unless you include the Caribbean schools.

 

[NatCh]

As far as writing a book on cardiac rehab, I would think being a cardiologist or cardiac rehab expert would be the best credential for that.

I don't know why I specifically picked cardiac rehab. It was just to exemplify that if you, as a podiatrist, were to write a book on a subject that is outside the scope of foot and ankle, then using your professional credentials wouldn't make sense. "What makes a podiatrist an expert on pilates and nutrition???" It wouldn't add anything to your credibility.

On the other hand, an uninformed consumer might see a book on pilates and nutrition, see that the author is an MD, and think, "Ooooh, the author is an MD -- he must know something about pilates and nutrition" (without ever looking more deeply to see that the author is a bored Pathologist who just likes to work out and write about it).

 

[templepodnc]

I don't know why I specifically picked cardiac rehab. It was just to exemplify that if you, as a podiatrist, were to write a book on a subject that is outside the scope of foot and ankle, then using your professional credentials wouldn't make sense. "What makes a podiatrist an expert on pilates and nutrition???" It wouldn't add anything to your credibility.

On the other hand, an uninformed consumer might see a book on pilates and nutrition, see that the author is an MD, and think, "Ooooh, the author is an MD -- he must know something about pilates and nutrition" (without ever looking more deeply to see that the author is a bored Pathologist who just likes to work out and write about it).

I misunderstood originally. I see your point now.

Medicaid pays ****

True. But it is my understanding that a lot of private insurances base their reimbursement rates off of medicare/caid. Which in case, medicare rates than mean something.

 

[krabmas]

I've been wondering this for a while now...

DPM's seem to worry about parity a whole lot. They want to be paid the same for a bunion, nail avulsion, orthotics, ankle fracture... that the neighboring F&A ortho, general ortho, PMD gets paid.

Each of the F&A ortho, general ortho, PMD would get a different rate for each of these procedures, not based on degree but on agreed fees thru the insurance company.

Podiatrist A and B could be neighbors in practice (same medical building) and get paid differently be cause of different negotiating skills.

With Medicaid we are physicians so I am assuming the base pay is the same per procedure DPM vs MD. So, does Medicare set the fee at different rates depending on degree? So then even if F&A ortho got 100% of the fee and Podiatrist got 100% of the fee it would still be less because the initial fee was less?

If anyone knows how this works please let me know.

 

[GymMan]

I don't know why I specifically picked cardiac rehab. It was just to exemplify that if you, as a podiatrist, were to write a book on a subject that is outside the scope of foot and ankle, then using your professional credentials wouldn't make sense. "What makes a podiatrist an expert on pilates and nutrition???" It wouldn't add anything to your credibility.

On the other hand, an uninformed consumer might see a book on pilates and nutrition, see that the author is an MD, and think, "Ooooh, the author is an MD -- he must know something about pilates and nutrition" (without ever looking more deeply to see that the author is a bored Pathologist who just likes to work out and write about it).

You're the ONLY one here that seems to think on my lines. Thanks. 😀

 

[NatCh]

You're the ONLY one here that seems to think on my lines. Thanks. 😀

I think I see what you are saying insofar as some of the general population ultimately bestows higher status and credibility to MD's than to any other type of professional degree (whether justified or not). A lot of people mistakenly think that doctors (especially MD's) are the supreme authorities on anything and everything, but it's not true.

I'm not sure I agree with what I interpret to be your reasoning for wanting the degree change though (i.e., simply as a marketing tool to trick the public into thinking you have specific expertise by having an MD degree when the MD degree did not give you said expertise). I think it would be disingenuous to allude that having an MD makes you an expert at fitness & exercise (or what have you) without revealing that your training was actually in foot surgery and not in exercise prescription. Using a title of MD just to sell books or promote a side business (if your professional training didn't actually encompass whatever it is you're selling) is trying to grab a few sales from the uninformed or gullible folks. It's cheesy at the least, unethical or fraudulent at worst.

Sorry if I've misinterpreted your intent; I'll admit I've only skimmed a few posts on this thread and did not read carefully. I may have missed a bunch of content, in which case I should shut up and pull out of this thread since I don't really wish to go back and read all of it.

 

[GymMan]

I think I see what you are saying insofar as some of the general population ultimately bestows higher status and credibility to MD's than to any other type of professional degree (whether justified or not). A lot of people mistakenly think that doctors (especially MD's) are the supreme authorities on anything and everything, but it's not true.

I'm not sure I agree with what I interpret to be your reasoning for wanting the degree change though (i.e., simply as a marketing tool to trick the public into thinking you have specific expertise by having an MD degree when the MD degree did not give you said expertise). I think it would be disingenuous to allude that having an MD makes you an expert at fitness & exercise (or what have you) without revealing that your training was actually in foot surgery and not in exercise prescription. Using a title of MD just to sell books or promote a side business (if your professional training didn't actually encompass whatever it is you're selling) is trying to grab a few sales from the uninformed or gullible folks. It's cheesy at the least, unethical or fraudulent at worst.

Sorry if I've misinterpreted your intent; I'll admit I've only skimmed a few posts on this thread and did not read carefully. I may have missed a bunch of content, in which case I should shut up and pull out of this thread since I don't really wish to go back and read all of it.

Thank you again for replying. Sorry to drag you into this. Yes, I understand the cheesy side of that. I was more or less stating that I see alot of MD/DOs like Andrew Weil, Dean Ornish, Joe Mercola or Doug McGuff, writing health/fitness, etc. books so wondered if a DPM could gain a bit more notoriety (from the public or patients wanting to see him) with this MD title. It has gotten out of hand here, so I'm not going to belabor a point. Suffice it said, that you were the ONLY guy here actually reasonably considering what I said without arched backs. Thank you. 👍

 

[NatCh]

Thank you again for replying. Sorry to drag you into this. Yes, I understand the cheesy side of that. I was more or less stating that I see alot of MD/DOs like Andrew Weil, Dean Ornish, Joe Mercola or Doug McGuff, writing health/fitness, etc. books so wondered if a DPM could gain a bit more notoriety (from the public or patients wanting to see him) with this MD title. It has gotten out of hand here, so I'm not going to belabor a point. Suffice it said, that you were the ONLY guy here actually reasonably considering what I said without arched backs. Thank you. 👍

Ahhhh, those are good examples. Andrew Weil teaches natural and integrative medicine but if he didn't have that MD degree he'd just be another holistic flake. Did you know he has a company called Weil Lifestyle, LLC? He's a lifestyle!

Dr.s Dean Ornish, Robert Atkins, and Arthur Agatston all promoted hugely popular diets and reached people in a way that no Registered Dietitian ever has.

Nat

[off to go promote Natch Lifestyle, LLC with a morning on the slopes followed by seeing Adventureland at the 2:15 matinee!]

 

[iceman69]

Medicaid is not medicare. They are two totally different beasts. One is a federal entity in its entirety (medicare) and the other is primarily state (medicaid) based. Private insurance reimbursements are based off of the RVUs set forth by a mystical decreement by the people responsible for the formularly of Medicare, not Medicaid. Medicaid is the reason poor people will move from Chicago to Minneapolis, Milwaukee, etc where they can better benefits to sit on their ass. This is why I think the APMA medicaid parity thing is a farce and a waste of money. DPM's already get reimbursed by Medicare, so who cares about medicaid unless you want to be on staff at a huge county hospital? Do you really want to spend your days working for free? Furthermore, in a lot of states DPMs already can bill medicaid and get reimbursed! So again, why is medicaid important?

 

[whiskers]

The smart people will stay away from medicine completely regardless of title and degree letters.

Medicine is a dying animal in America and it won't be long before wages will be a joke.

But keep watching TV and follow your Hollywood dreams and end up on the back side of a big giant economic bubble in medicine.

 

[GymMan]

The smart people will stay away from medicine completely regardless of title and degree letters.

Medicine is a dying animal in America and it won't be long before wages will be a joke.

But keep watching TV and follow your Hollywood dreams and end up on the back side of a big giant economic bubble in medicine.

Time & again I'm told (by family, profs, friends, etc.) that medicine has an income ceiling/cap (albeit very high but...) that business careers don't have. (Namely sales type jobs).

There's no limit to how much you can sell or make through residual sales/accounts, yet a limit on how many surgeries/patients you can do/see in a day/wk, etc.

The only worry is w/ a bad economic time, what is solvent that can equate to medicine's $? Maybe selling pharmaceuticals or med equipment, or even HMO insurance jobs may be the way to go. Most hosp. CEO's or brass, are NOT medical personnel yet make very good $.

Whiskers, you ain't all that dumb.

 

[roflcakes887]

hey look, more people who aren't MD's trying to pretend they are MD's.

First DO's. Then DNP's. Now, DPM's.

Newsflash: if you want an MD, go to an MD school.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

hey look, more people who aren't MD's trying to pretend they are MD's.

First DO's. Then DNP's. Now, DPM's.

Newsflash: if you want an MD, go to an MD school.

zing!

 

[dropfoot]

hey look, more people who aren't MD's trying to pretend they are MD's.

First DO's. Then DNP's. Now, DPM's.

Newsflash: if you want an MD, go to an MD school.

How about studying your MD $hit, staying off of our forum, and letting us pretend for awhile; can you do that?

 

[NatCh]

How about studying your MD $hit, staying off of our forum, and letting us pretend for awhile; can you do that?

Ha haw haw! [knuckles]

 

[air bud]

Time & again I'm told (by family, profs, friends, etc.) that medicine has an income ceiling/cap (albeit very high but...) that business careers don't have. (Namely sales type jobs).

There's no limit to how much you can sell or make through residual sales/accounts, yet a limit on how many surgeries/patients you can do/see in a day/wk, etc.

The only worry is w/ a bad economic time, what is solvent that can equate to medicine's $? Maybe selling pharmaceuticals or med equipment, or even HMO insurance jobs may be the way to go. Most hosp. CEO's or brass, are NOT medical personnel yet make very good $.

Whiskers, you ain't all that dumb.

i would look into the sales upside a little more if you still think this. pharm is not nearly what it was a number of years ago, and medical equipment is quickly changing. i have a brother who is spine for a big company, and he is seeing then changes coming soon

 

[GymMan]

i would look into the sales upside a little more if you still think this. pharm is not nearly what it was a number of years ago, and medical equipment is quickly changing. i have a brother who is spine for a big company, and he is seeing then changes coming soon

I know things have changed. Its getting where no career is a good choice. But if you have an interest in meds/sports med, or even just healthcare, its time to find carrers that fit you -- and give you your money's worth upon graduation. Long hrs and insurance hassles are in ALL meds. Maybe Dental Hygiene or Resp Therapy or PTA or OTA is a quick 2 yrs AS or AAS that'll get you good pay (50-60K/yr) yet reduce stress, give time for family or friends, etc.

The debt at comm colleges instate is a lot better than any private med/pod school. No state pod schools exist so the debt will be huge. Hopefully you can repay this, 20K+ in some cases, debt.

 

[whiskers]

If I wanted to be an MD, I would have at least gone to a caribbean school or a thousand other WHO approved medical schools.



My advice to anyone reading... go to medical school if you want to be an MD.

You won't be on going to podiatry school.

The worship of the other doctors has to stop, it is sickening! If you are a DPM you are a doctor too so who cares?

I DON'T

AND TO ROFLCAKES

you are just unhappy that you will forever be a middle class dweeb like the rest of us. It's not bad, but no one really gives a crap who or what you are and treat your punk behind like a burger king employee. Then you can tell them how smart you are and where you went to school, at which time, they will say,

WHERE is that, never heard of it then turn you into the medical board for discussing something outside of their medical problem whereby you are put on probation for being a bragging idiot.

But you will be one of the top 10% I bet. NOT.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

If I wanted to be an MD, I would have at least gone to a caribbean school or a thousand other WHO approved medical schools.



My advice to anyone reading... go to medical school if you want to be an MD.

You won't be on going to podiatry school.

The worship of the other doctors has to stop, it is sickening! If you are a DPM you are a doctor too so who cares?

I DON'T

AND TO ROFLCAKES

you are just unhappy that you will forever be a middle class dweeb like the rest of us. It's not bad, but no one really gives a crap who or what you are and treat your punk behind like a burger king employee. Then you can tell them how smart you are and where you went to school, at which time, they will say,

WHERE is that, never heard of it then turn you into the medical board for discussing something outside of their medical problem whereby you are put on probation for being a bragging idiot.

But you will be one of the top 10% I bet. NOT.

To the first part - very true.
The 2nd part - LOL... this cracked me up. (And it is true as well)

 

[Podmeister]

hey look, more people who aren't MD's trying to pretend they are MD's.

First DO's. Then DNP's. Now, DPM's.

Newsflash: if you want an MD, go to an MD school.

I wholeheartedly agree.👍

Podiatry students hoping for a MD title change are setting themselves up for a lifetime fill with disappointment. It's just not going to happen.

 

[GymMan]

I wholeheartedly agree.👍

Podiatry students hoping for a MD title change are setting themselves up for a lifetime fill with disappointment. It's just not going to happen.

Ah hell, just practice as you like. If you want to do cardiology or nephrology as a DPM then do it! Haha.

Who needs an MD? Just practice voodoo or witchcraft if you want. 😛

 

[GymMan]

If I wanted to be an MD, I would have at least gone to a caribbean school or a thousand other WHO approved medical schools.



My advice to anyone reading... go to medical school if you want to be an MD.

You won't be on going to podiatry school.

The worship of the other doctors has to stop, it is sickening! If you are a DPM you are a doctor too so who cares?

I DON'T

AND TO ROFLCAKES

you are just unhappy that you will forever be a middle class dweeb like the rest of us. It's not bad, but no one really gives a crap who or what you are and treat your punk behind like a burger king employee. Then you can tell them how smart you are and where you went to school, at which time, they will say,

WHERE is that, never heard of it then turn you into the medical board for discussing something outside of their medical problem whereby you are put on probation for being a bragging idiot.

But you will be one of the top 10% I bet. NOT.

I reread this a few times yet have no idea what you said. 😕

Were you drunk when you wrote it?

 

[Podmeister]

Who needs an MD? Just practice voodoo or witchcraft if you want. 😛

I might consider writing a book or opening a shop about voodoo or witchcraft....and guess what? no MD required.👍

 

[GymMan]

I might consider writing a book or opening a shop about voodoo or witchcraft....and guess what? no MD required.👍

Ha, yeah sounds good. But in a lull like this, I'm still (truthfully, I'm tryin to remember what to hell I'm talkin about) thinking about the need for an MD, if you get the DPM , unless you need it for a trump card. But if the MD doesnt bear lucrative amounts then hell, settle for the DPM and still have cash to burn, albeit more effort than the MD counterparts to achieve diminishing returns in the bank acct. Does this make sense?

 

[MaseratiGT]

I might consider writing a book or opening a shop about voodoo or witchcraft....and guess what? no MD required.👍

I want in on the Store of Witchcraftery! But only if it's called The Store of Witchcraftery. Makes it sound less demonic and more like...homemakers with a passion.

Then we can lobby for a degree change to DPW (Doctor of Podiatric Witchcraftery), change all of our school's names to varying degrees of Hogwarts, (i.e. Hogverruca, Piggywarts, Sowexcrescence), write loads of books detailing everything we know nothing about, and open a chain of gyms with a KFC on the first floor.

We'll make oodles $_$

 

[jonwill]

This is a debate that comes up about every six months or so and is usually largely limited to pre-med vs pre-pod and students early on in their studies. As you progress in your education, you find that nothing matters less than the initials behind your name. I think this largely arises because of the idea that there is some MD out there that does what a podiatrist does. This is not true or the profession wouldn't exist. And frankly, if podiatry existed 50 years ago when ortho did all foot and ankle surgery, why would it be in danger of existence now when podiatrists do the majority of foot surgery in the country??? (granted our training has changed greatly)

NO MD/DO DOES WHAT WE DO. Is there some overlap within our specialty vs other medical specialties? Of course there is. Welcome to the world of medicine! "Turf wars" are a part of medicine. There are very few specialties that are exclusive anymore. A few examples I've seen (some of which have become all out wars) are vascular vs interventional cardiology, plastics vs ortho hand, plastics vs OMFS, ortho spine vs neuro, gen surg vs all surgical sub-specialties, etc.

In the end, the limiting factor will not be the letters behind your name but the training that you receive. Work hard, learn everything you can, cease every opportunity, and you will be fine.

 

[homeboy]

In the end, the limiting factor will not be the letters behind your name but the training that you receive. Work hard, learn everything you can, cease every opportunity, and you will be fine.

But the letters behind your name directly reflect the training you receive, and even if you HAD the training to perform knee, hip, pelvis, etc, surgery, your title explicitly prohibits you from operating on such sites.

 

[jonwill]

But the letters behind your name directly reflect the training you receive, and even if you HAD the training to perform knee, hip, pelvis, etc, surgery, your title explicitly prohibits you from operating on such sites.

Why would a DPM be trained to do knees, hips, and pelvis? But not exactly. Just because you're an MD doesn't mean you'd be doing knees, hips, pelvis, etc either. Even an MD's scope of practice is limited by what they are trained to do (ie residency).

 

[homeboy]

Why would a DPM be trained to do knees, hips, and pelvis? But not exactly. Just because you're an MD doesn't mean you'd be doing knees, hips, pelvis, etc either. Even an MD's scope of practice is limited by what they are trained to do (ie residency).

That's specialization, not limitation. IE, the title of MD does not confer any limitations from the onset, whereas it is implicit in the DPM degree what the limitation is. Yes, we narrow our scope of practice, but whatever fellowship or specialty we are boarded in is designated by initials (FACS, FACOG, etc...).



Not trying to start anything, just pointing something out.

 

[jonwill]

That's specialization, not limitation. IE, the title of MD does not confer any limitations from the onset, whereas it is implicit in the DPM degree what the limitation is. Yes, we narrow our scope of practice, but whatever fellowship or specialty we are boarded in is designated by initials (FACS, FACOG, etc...).



Not trying to start anything, just pointing something out.

Call it what you will but in the end, it means the same thing. We are all specialists and are limited by our training. Whereas our specialty is designated from day one as a DPM, MD's begin their education wide open but must make a decision (which will be dictated by many variables) in the end as to where they will specialize.

You bring up an interesting point about board certification. DPM's can become board certified by a number of different organizations. The big one in our profession is becoming board certified by the American Board of Podiatric Surgery (ABPS). You then become a fellow of the American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons. With some DPM's, you will see the initials FACFAS after the DPM.

 

[shabu2]

Degrees mean nothing, respect is always earned. I've met douchey MD's and brilliant PA's. If you want an MD, go back and get one. Sorry for crashing a DPM thread, but I have a DDS and will earn my MD in a few months, and believe me, letters do not corelation to patient care.

 

[GymMan]

Degrees mean nothing, respect is always earned. I've met douchey MD's and brilliant PA's. If you want an MD, go back and get one. Sorry for crashing a DPM thread, but I have a DDS and will earn my MD in a few months, and believe me, letters do not corelation to patient care.

That's true. But not to be cantankerous, why'd you choose to drop the DDS and still go on to get the MD? May I ask why the need for more?