DPT School Loans - Am I crazy to do this?

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Kepania

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I CAN'T STOP OBSESSING about this, so any help you all can offer will be greatly appreciated!

IF I get into DPT School, my cost of attendance will be $105K total tuition (private school) plus cost of living for three years, which in this area (SF Bay Area) is really high. I'm an older student, 38, and literally have NO financial help or savings. No savings accounts, 401K, income, spouse, parental help, trust fund, inheritance, rich uncles, nothin. On top of that, I still have $19K in loans from undergrad and a nice chunk of credit card debt. (Lest you think I'm a total bum: I spent my savings and retirement, and ran up the credit cards, while caring for my mother full time while she had cancer).

Am I NUTS to take on this kind of additional debt? Will I be able to survive on a PT's salary??? I'm not trying to become rich by going into PT, obviously that shouldn't be anyone's motivation. I just want to be financial stable while doing something that I love. But no matter how I crunch the numbers, it looks like I'll be making $1500-$2000 a month, at least, in payments for probably the rest of my life. So after that, I'll be bringing home about the same as I was as an admin assistant. I REALLY REALLY want to do this but I don't want to struggle for the rest of my life. Am I crazy? Should I be worried about this???

Any input on this would be VERY MUCH appreciated!!!! Thank you!
:)
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I totally understand your pain, we have very similar situations. I battled with this throughout my last year of taking pre-reqs. My supervisor during my observation hours told me that I should not attend a pricey private school and should look into a state school. Another supervisor told me that I should go wherever I got accepted. Like you, I have real-world debt that I'm taking with me to PT school. I came to the conclusion that I needed to attend a state school that would be more cost effective. I had to look at starting salaries in my area along with my outstanding debt. The state school is my first choice, however if I got into the private school I will probably still attend. I really can't imagine doing anything else at this point. I so hope that I get into the state school, because at this age it will make such a big difference. I still have big life purchases (i.e. a house) that I will need to make after PT school.
Follow your passion and the money will follow. What is your plan B if you don't attend PT school?
 
Did you apply this year? The financial aspect of getting your DPT haunts everybody's mind when applying and considering going to school. But think of how much you will learn and how much more you can help people as a PT versus an admin assistant. If you do love physical therapy, I would imagine you would be much happier helping people as a DPT than as an admin assistant. I guess you just have to ask yourself if it really will make you happy enough to go through 3 years of school. If you will end up making the same amount of money (because of the loans) do you believe that the change in your ability to help people is worth it.
 
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I'm supposed to have a plan B? Lol.

I did apply this year, and it was a total long shot, but I applied to a school in the area that I really like and that I actually had a shot at (however slim). Turns out I'm now waitlisted at #5, which I am both shocked and excited about. But I guess I do have a plan B: if I don't get in, I will have more time to take the additional pre-reqs and get the additional volunteer hours necessary to apply to the state schools I like for next year. But if I DO get in, especially at my age, I feel like I'd be a fool not to go this year! Ugh!

It's really comforting to know that there is someone else in my shoes, NYCPT! Thanks to this forum, I already know of three acceptees to my program who are declining and I feel my chances are really good at getting in, so now I'm just losing sleep over this money BS.

kjo11, you've pretty much hit on the point that I keep coming back to: if I'm making the same as I used to in a pointless, unfulfilling career, at least I'll be doing something very fulfilling where I'll be actually using my brain and helping people. I may have to scrape by but at least I know I'll always have a job, and one that love.

Thanks for your input!!! Laying in bed yet again and obsessing about this...it's nice to have some feedback!
:)
 
Woo hoo, #5 on the list sounds very promising. Sounds like you are going to PT school this year, since it doesn't sound like you have a plan B, C or D. :)

It is so competitive to get into PT school, so take the leap and have faith that the finances will work itself out. Let us know when you get that acceptance, we are rooting for you.
 
Thank you so much! And good luck to you on the road to state school. Are you applying for 2013?
 
I have applied this year and will have to wait to hear the news. The clock is ticking. Tick, tick, tick. LOL!!!
 
Kepania said:
I CAN'T STOP OBSESSING about this, so any help you all can offer will be greatly appreciated!

IF I get into DPT School, my cost of attendance will be $105K total tuition (private school) plus cost of living for three years, which in this area (SF Bay Area) is really high. I'm an older student, 38, and literally have NO financial help or savings. No savings accounts, 401K, income, spouse, parental help, trust fund, inheritance, rich uncles, nothin. On top of that, I still have $19K in loans from undergrad and a nice chunk of credit card debt. (Lest you think I'm a total bum: I spent my savings and retirement, and ran up the credit cards, while caring for my mother full time while she had cancer).

Am I NUTS to take on this kind of additional debt? Will I be able to survive on a PT's salary??? I'm not trying to become rich by going into PT, obviously that shouldn't be anyone's motivation. I just want to be financial stable while doing something that I love. But no matter how I crunch the numbers, it looks like I'll be making $1500-$2000 a month, at least, in payments for probably the rest of my life. So after that, I'll be bringing home about the same as I was as an admin assistant. I REALLY REALLY want to do this but I don't want to struggle for the rest of my life. Am I crazy? Should I be worried about this???

Any input on this would be VERY MUCH appreciated!!!! Thank you!
:)
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There are cheaper alternatives to become a PT than your current plan, if you want. If it were me...I would try to pay off as much as the debt as possible before starting as well as save some. I live in a very high priced area as well, and all the DPT schools around me are only private schools that start around 85 g or more for all three years, that does not include the cost of living. Not to mention the traffic in my area is horrendous, so the commute time and the amount spent on gas to get to these schools will be a lot as well. I would like to not take on as much debt, if possible, so I have actually been looking into other schools in my state as well as out of state. I have seen so many other options out there with much cheaper tuition...some for 45 g or less for all 3 years. Also, many of these schools are in areas with cheaper cost of living than where I am now, which would allow me to live very close to one of these schools if I were to get accepted. So if you are able to move somewhere else and are open to it, I would do that. Sometimes applying out of state is cheaper than applying in state. One disadvantage is it might be harder to get accepted into an out of state school, this might not always be the case though. If you have strong stats, it is worth a shot, I think.
 
I hear you, Kepania. The thought of taking on that much debt is extremely daunting. But the way I see it: I will be doing something that I love when I get out of PT school and I will be able to make a difference in people with the knowledge I received in PT school.

Is it going to be a pain in the neck to pay off all that money? Absolutely. But is going to be worth it? Absolutely :)
 
I don't think anyone goes into PT for the money because there are higher paying health care professions (or easier health care tech jobs with the same eventual pay). People practice PT because its something they're going to be happy doing. The salary is comfortable, but probably inadequate to both pay off a huge debt and save for retirement.

In your case, a life-long debt could eventually lead to regret. You're now in the "courting" phase with the PT profession, and after PT school you'll be merrily "on the honeymoon." What about after 30 years, when you're 68 social security has vanished, and you haven't been able to save for retirement because you've been paying off student loans? What if you do wind up with a significant other and your loan payments become a stress point (money if often the cause of tension and stress in a relationship)? I would never recommend that someone dig themselves deeply in debt. There are way too many people in that situation today, and we have a global economic crisis.

I suggest following your dreams, but on a different path. Don't accumulate such a large debt. Find a state school with a significantly lower tuition. Even move out of state, establish tuition, and pay the lower cost of the same education. Manage your income and wealth for your own long-term well being.
 
There are options out there for repaying debt. They've been discussed on the board if you're interested. If you work in a non-profit business for 10 years, any debt leftover will be forgiven. Also, with PT you are allowed to make income adjusted payments. That way you won't be paying 1500-2000/month in loan repayments.

There are options out there (employment wise) that help pay back. Also, making smaller payments on your loans while investing intelligently for your future is a better option in the long run. You can make more money in interest if you invest that your loan debt is accruing.
 
Thanks for bringing this up. I have been super scared about taking on so much debt. Originally I was thinking about going out of state but after I crunched the numbers I decided it wasn't worth $120,000 in debt.

Right now I'm looking at $80,000 for 3 years. After I completed my FAFSA I realized that I could only get $20,500 each year in government loans which means I still had to get $20,000 in private loans. For me the $60,000 in government loans doesn't scare me as much as the $20,000 in private loans. The private loans feel like credit cards with 10% interest rates. So after struggling with what to do, I decided to take a full time job working an overnight shift until school starts in September. If I'm frugal I should be able to save $20,000 before school starts. I'm also taking 8 hours of Physiology and Biology II right now so it's a bit crazy but at the end of the day graduating with only $60,000 in debt feels much safer for me.

I know all of our situations are different and that not everyone can do this. I just wanted you to know that you aren't alone for being scared :)
 
You are not crazy! I think about it constantly and my tuition is considerably lower than what you stated yours will be. I can't sit here and say that the means(at least my opinion of the menas) justify the end. Others, myself included, have stated that finding a cheaperschool is just as important as finding a "good" school. At the end it just does not make financial sense unless DPT salaries increase, on average, by 20k over the next few years.

One of the more disconcerting issues is that many of the faculty/administration have to know this. We have started part-time clinic hours and one of the CIs literally said that the tuition they charge is "the biggest scams they could imagine." All I could think is......AGREED! Let's see where healthcare is in the next 2-5 years. Until then, questions abound!
 
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NYCPT said:
I have applied this year and will have to wait to hear the news. The clock is ticking. Tick, tick, tick. LOL!!!
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Yeah the waiting game is endless! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you to get into state! Good luck!
 
THANK YOU for all the input!!!

You guys all have really good points. I'm not going to lie, I was hoping that a whole bunch of people would jump on here and say "We're all in the same boat! You'll be fine! Don't worry about it!" But alas, I know that is not reality. However it is extremely comforting to know that I am not alone!

One thing that keeps bringing me back to just going to the private school, is that the state schools here in California aren't even that much cheaper, and most expect tuition increases over the next few years. Heck, SFSU is almost the same price as the private schools. Even Sac State is around $73K and expected to increase next year. So I'd be saving $30K going there. Is that a lot of money to save? Indeed. But in the grand scheme of things, what's another $30K when my overall debt is around $150K or more? Lol

And going out of state means out of state tuition at least for part of the time. But I have an aging father and other family obligations that kind of take that off the table. I need to stay nearby. If I were 25, it would be a different story.

kttdancer, I really like your suggestion, and it is something I have considered. Making lower payments at first while investing a little bit. I think that would be a wise path to take. I'm also very interested in traveling PT, which I understand can bring in higher pay. There are many available travel gigs here in CA and I am very open to it, just don't know if it's wise for a new PT to do it. I've heard mixed opinions about that.

Sigh...my internal struggle continues!
 
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?u=447474Kepania,
Another option that you might also want to look into for funding DPT school would be to see if any of the hospitals around your area offer a program where you pledge a few years of your life working for them after graduation in exchange for tuition assistance. I know that a number of the hospitals around my area will cover the costs of half of tuition in exchange for pledging to work for them for anywhere between 4-10 years. This option is not for everyone, but it might be something to look into if you are worried about loans.
 
adw253, thank you for bringing that up. That is something I plan to look into. Of course I'm always reminded that my age is a factor and I'm concerned about starting out a new career at my age and committing a large chunk of time right off the bat. But it is definitely an option.

The flip side of that is that I've done a lot of research on PT salaries in different settings, and hospitals seem to have the lowest salaries. So in the long run, its a matter of: lower salary + partially paid off loans + no freedom vs. higher salary + no loan payoff + job freedom. Almost seems to even out, especially over the course of many years. Am I off base with this conclusion about hospital salaries?
 
Kepania, ultimately the decision is yours. I can't advise you to take another career path with less debt as that may make you totally unhappy. I believe this is your second career (like myself) and you are changing so that you can finally have career satisfaction and fulfillment.

I asked you what was your plan B outside of PT to see if you have another financially stable career.It seemed to me that PT is your passion. You didn't mention PA or nursing as viable Plan B's.

In the right market, after a few years, you can earn $100k+. I know PTs that work a 8-5 and then do a few home visits after work and are home by 7pm. I worked in advertising where I worked from 9-7 or even 8 pm and received that same pay check, because I was a salaried employee.

If you were a few years younger, I may have told you to try to pay off a few bills and etc, but I think you shouldn't wait too much longer. Yes, and some jobs have loan forgiveness programs.

Really do some soul searching and ask yourself how much does it mean to you to become a PT and at what cost.

Wishing you all the best!!!
 
Sounds like a question for Suze Orman..

I would say yes, you might be a little bit crazy to do this.

If you are 38, say you start work right away at 41/42 after PT school. I'm guessing you'd be 53-55 by the time you finishing paying off all your debt. That doesn't leave a lot of time to get ready for a comfortable retirement.

To what age do you want to be working? PT is a physical job, and maybe you feel confident you will be able to power through 40-50hr weeks as a PT at age 60, but I think many people in the profession move towards research, teaching, clinical specialists at companies, etc. at that age. You would be just starting to rack up your experience.

I would advise you make a very honest and realistic financial plan for 20 years down the road and see if it is liveable.
 
fallingreason said:
Sounds like a question for Suze Orman..

I would say yes, you might be a little bit crazy to do this.

If you are 38, say you start work right away at 41/42 after PT school. I'm guessing you'd be 53-55 by the time you finishing paying off all your debt. That doesn't leave a lot of time to get ready for a comfortable retirement.

To what age do you want to be working? PT is a physical job, and maybe you feel confident you will be able to power through 40-50hr weeks as a PT at age 60, but I think many people in the profession move towards research, teaching, clinical specialists at companies, etc. at that age. You would be just starting to rack up your experience.

I would advise you make a very honest and realistic financial plan for 20 years down the road and see if it is liveable.
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LOL!!! I thought about Suzie Orman. She would have possibly told me, "You are DENIED!!!"
 
Yes Suze would say I'm denied too!

This might make me sound even crazier, but having my debt paid off at 52/53 doesn't sound half bad! I briefly considered nursing as a plan B, but it's just not for me. My hobby for the last ten+ years has been learning how movement and nutrition can be used as healing and preventative measures to health. PT just seemed to fit. I guess it really does come down to whether or not this will be a career that is fulfilling for me, and worth the cost. I don't have another field that I am really skilled in, so my alternative would be one schleppy job after another until I die.

Does anyone know if working in VA hospitals has any potential loan forgiveness programs? Working with vets is something that really interests me.
 
Yes, you're crazy. Anyone taking on this much debt is crazy. I too am crazy. oh well. PT is fun.
 
Kepania said:
Yes! THERE'S the answer I've been looking for!!! Lol
:)
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Kepania, that's the answer I was going to give too!! :) I turn 34 this year, have a (relatively) small amount of student loan debt and chunk of credit card debt (from putting myself through the prereqs), too. But upon reassessing my life at 30, I realized that I really want to love what I do for a living! I've spent the past 2.5 yrs doing the prereqs, and now I've been accepted to a private school in SoCal. Yay! I KNOW I'll struggle to pay off the debt once I'm done but I think that, at our age, we really know what we want. And I just decided it would be worth it to make it happen! Sounds like your parents are lucky to have you to look after them. Sounds like you'd be a great PT! Good luck in your decision. It's so stressful!! But please know you're definitely not alone! :)
 
Kepania... sorry! One more thing I wanted to mention! My friend's former neighbor was a PT who did home health care, and he lives in a million dollar home and supports himself and his wife and their 2 kids. I'd say that's a pretty good living! As you said, you're not trying to become rich! Sounds like if you're willing to do the research to find out how you could possibly pay off the loan debt more quickly, you can make it work.
 
ml0925 said:
Kepania... sorry! One more thing I wanted to mention! My friend's former neighbor was a PT who did home health care, and he lives in a million dollar home and supports himself and his wife and their 2 kids. I'd say that's a pretty good living! As you said, you're not trying to become rich! Sounds like if you're willing to do the research to find out how you could possibly pay off the loan debt more quickly, you can make it work.
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ml0925 Congrats on your acceptance!!! Woohoo!!! And thank you for sharing your story. It is SO great to hear from everyone on here and know that I'm not alone! It's especially encouraging to hear from someone who, like myself, is older than the average student and has a little debt (and going into private school!) I basically arrived here the same way...I decided I need to do something I enjoy. I just made a decision and went for it.

Thanks for sharing the above info too. I'm always looking for positive stories and info about real life as a PT.

Good luck in your program! I'm sure you'll do great! There's something about knowing what you really want, like you said... I find it to be great motivation to succeed!!!
:)
 
I've been thinking about whether or not to put my input in. You've probably already considered this but it's worth a writing down.
Being in your mid to late thirty's is something to take in to consideration. You've got retirement to look into. I'm not sure if you have children, but it is an important thing to consider. Do want them to have to financial support you if you are too infirm to work but haven't saved a secure retirement?
On the flip side. I have worked around enough unhappy adults to know that staying in a job you don't find rewarding will sap the joy out of your life just like any debt burden. I don't think this is trivial at all.
Here are some options: Most of which have already been touched on.
1.) establish state tuition. - You want to be a pt. A state school will get you there. The end result is the same. Pass rates between state and private schools are close to equal. This could eliminate most of that private debt.
2.) Federal loan consolidation and repayment. If you work in a non profit ( this is more tricky with pt than other health care professions) and make 120 payments ( consecutive or non consecutive) the balance will be paid by the government. Check it out on http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/PSF.jsp.
3.) If you need to take a year off to establish residency. Pay as much of your debt as possible from undergrad.

- Whatever you do. Best of luck.
RM
 
Kepania,

I think you answered your own question when you mentioned that after student loan repayment you would be bringing home the same amount monthly as you do at your current job and that you don't have any skills, so you would be working "one schleppy job after another until I die." So, what do you have to lose? Nothing. You would have the same net monthly income and wouldn't be working a schleppy job. Go to PT school and become a PT.

Just to let you know that you are not alone: I am 36, married with a child under 1 years old, and will be attending a private school. I just paid off all of my consumer debt, but still have $60K in undergrad debt that will not be paid off before I attend PT school this fall. I currently own my own business and make more money now than I will as a PT. I have no passion for my job and it is an extremely stressful job. I do not have the option to move out of state because of my husband's job. I was not even invited for an interview at my state school (and I have great stats). Some of us "older" students don't have the luxury of waiting for the perfect circumstances.

I hope you get off of the waitlist. Good luck!
 
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trichic said:
Kepania,

I think you answered your own question when you mentioned that after student loan repayment you would be bringing home the same amount monthly as you do at your current job and that you don't have any skills, so you would be working "one schleppy job after another until I die." So, what do you have to lose? Nothing. You would have the same net monthly income and wouldn't be working a schleppy job. Go to PT school and become a PT.

Just to let you know that you are not alone: I am 36, married with a child under 1 years old, and will be attending a private school. I just paid off all of my consumer debt, but still have $60K in undergrad debt that will not be paid off before I attend PT school this fall. I currently own my own business and make more money now than I will as a PT. I have no passion for my job and it is an extremely stressful job. I do not have the option to move out of state because of my husband's job. I was not even invited for an interview at my state school (and I have great stats). Some of us "older" students don't have the luxury of waiting for the perfect circumstances.

I hope you get off of the waitlist. Good luck!
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I totally agree with your post!!! :thumbup:
 
Everyone,

I've seen the Public Serivce Loan Forgiveness mentioned several times here. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but PSLF is a brand new program that hasn't been around long enough for someone to complete their 10 years/120 payments and receive loan reimbursement.

I can't predict the future, but I wouldn't bank on the fact that PSLF will be able to bail you out.

However, I'm crossing my fingers that it sticks around for us :)
 
Hey, Kepania. I can definitely empathize with debt concerns, and I'm sure just about every pre-PT/PT student can as well! It's definitely a scary thought to take on massive debt, even when what you're pursuing is something you're sure you'll find internally rewarding.

I'm a career-changer myself. I'm 28 (will turn 29 shortly after I start school this summer) and have no kids or current debt. I'm also certain I will not have children, which provides a huge financial relief, especially these days!

Perhaps one way to handle making extremely high monthly debt payments you're expecting is to foster an appreciation of the little (cheaper/free) things in life without seeking out expensive items/experiences. I consider living cheaply to be almost like an "art form" that can help generate a lot more economic freedom and an easier time paying off debt. Due to my life choices leading to a very inexpensive lifestyle, I am personally not sweating the thought of paying $1500 or even more per month towards student loan debt when I'm done with school. After-tax income minus $18-20k in payments to student loan debt still leaves a very healthy chunk of change leftover as far as my personal standards go.

My old job only paid about $32,000 a year, and that was honestly well more than I needed. I saved a good 1/4 of my after-tax income in fact. A PT salary might easily double what I used to make, so paying $20k a year to loans would personally not reduce my living standards at all. I think your comparison of your old job with being a PT, making the same after-loan payments income, is most revealing about what you should do. Of course, I still think you'll want to pay off loans extremely aggressively since you will also want to be saving money for retirement too. Again, I think this will require a certain dedication toward frugal living...something I think is a skill worth being proud of in a culture where many people are not responsible with their discretionary spending!

I realize everyone has different plans/expectations for their lives though, and some of these expectations/desires require huge financial expenditures (children being a huge one, but also material goods and vacations desired).

Okay I think I've blabbed incoherently for long enough...... :laugh:

Good luck in your decision!!!
 
rangardrum - you have brought up a point that I have not giving nearly enough consideration to in this process. I, too consider myself a master at the art of frugal living! In fact most of my friends cannot even figure out how I've survived this last year and a half without a job. But when you have very little to live on, you just get creative and it really is not that hard. I'm not a person that needs, or has ever had, fancy things. And I'll probably always be that way! So this perspective is VERY encouraging! Thank you!

trichic - I thank you for sharing your situation, and age. ;-) As I keep saying, it's so great to know there are others out there in a similar boat, financially and chronologically! I agree that us older students don't really have the luxury of waiting for the perfect circumstances. If I had ten years back, I might wait a year and go for state school. But then again, I also might not be so scared of the debt, what with having a whole ten extra years to pay it off! But c'est la vie. I didn't figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up until I was WAY grown up, and that's just the way it is! :)

runnermouse - you make a lot of great points and suggestions. The most meaningful to me being the part about how an unrewarding job can suck the joy out of life! So true, and this is huge motivation for my current path! I suspect that a rewarding job will have the opposite effect. In fact, I'm banking on it, literally!

I do like the PSLF, in theory, but I agree with fejin757 - it's so new, it would be hard to get any real world feedback about how that's working out for people. Plus as I have said before, 10 years is a huge time commitment at my age.

Many of you guys have mentioned the importance of retirement, something I haven't spent enough time planning for. It is something to consider for sure. Aggressively paying down these loans would definitely have to be my focus for the first few of years so that I can plan for that. With no kids to burden in my old age, I better get on that, asap!

Again I thank you all for your input. I have to say, you've all given me a lot to think about, but mostly I feel like I have gotten so much encouragement and reassurance that many other future PTs are sharing my concerns. That alone has taking a HUGE weight off my mind!!!! Now if I could just find out if I got in to the program or not, I can make my decision already!!!! Hate this waiting!

Thank you all!!!
:-D
 
Just wanted to add....check out the Grad Plus loans in addition to the Direct student loans BEFORE you go private. I believe you can consoladate .... which makes all the other options, Public Service, Income Base etc... doable. You can't consoladate the private and be eligible for the Gov. payback plans.

Here is another link on this forum regarding loans I thought helpful. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=771208

and more info on the FAFSA links to the loan pages. Happy hunting.

Trying not to think too much about the debt and bask in the enjoyment of going to PT school....we're all crazy and what fun we will have ........!!!
 
Litlwarrior08 said:
Just wanted to add....check out the Grad Plus loans in addition to the Direct student loans BEFORE you go private. I believe you can consoladate .... which makes all the other options, Public Service, Income Base etc... doable. You can't consoladate the private and be eligible for the Gov. payback plans.

Here is another link on this forum regarding loans I thought helpful. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=771208

and more info on the FAFSA links to the loan pages. Happy hunting.

Trying not to think too much about the debt and bask in the enjoyment of going to PT school....we're all crazy and what fun we will have ........!!!
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Yes! What fun we will have indeed!!!!

Thank you for the advice and the link. I definitely need to do some serious loan research!
 
fejin757 said:
Everyone,

I've seen the Public Serivce Loan Forgiveness mentioned several times here. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but PSLF is a brand new program that hasn't been around long enough for someone to complete their 10 years/120 payments and receive loan reimbursement.

I can't predict the future, but I wouldn't bank on the fact that PSLF will be able to bail you out.

However, I'm crossing my fingers that it sticks around for us :)
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On the PSLF....I think the crap hits the fan in 2017 with the first submission of request for forgiveness. :xf:
 
Litlwarrior08 said:
On the PSLF....I think the crap hits the fan in 2017 with the first submission of request for forgiveness. :xf:
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I also worry about whether or not PSLF will be around long term. It doesn't seem like an affordable option for the government to be able to continue this program.
 
Don't worry I am in a similar boat. I am currently getting my master's and looking to apply beginning next application cycle. I will have a decent amount of debt from student loans already, (close to $46k) and PT school just means more and more debt. I don't really have any other debt, I don't have a car payment or a mortgage yet, so I will be able to focus just on student loans once I get out.

I'm assuming I can also find a job that pays well once I get out of PT school. A lot of the therapists I've shadowed had a lot of debt from PT school as well, and have had no problems paying down their loans quickly. It seems a lot of places will start ~60k, or higher depending on where you live. I generally live quite frugally, even if I were to be in a place with a rent of maybe $1,000/mo. I know I can live off quite well off about $16-17,000 per year if I don't do something like buy a car. $20k would be a fairly lavish lifestyle for me. With that in mind 60k even after taxes are taken out is plenty. I can pay off my current loan and the loan I'll need for school in a reasonable amount of time. Secondly I'm not sure, but if you go into inpatient care it seems that nurses and doctors get some of their loans paid for, so it may be the same for therapists as well.
 
I coach a rowing team of seniors. One lady was telling me her retirement plan consisted of committing a crime requiring her to go to federal prison...that way she would get health care paid for, gardening (yard) time, arts and crafts...all for free. So there is always that option.
 
Seatown87 said:
I coach a rowing team of seniors. One lady was telling me her retirement plan consisted of committing a crime requiring her to go to federal prison...that way she would get health care paid for, gardening (yard) time, arts and crafts...all for free. So there is always that option.
Click to expand...

:laugh::laugh: free meals and roof over your head.
 
bcnewell said:
Don't worry I am in a similar boat. I am currently getting my master's and looking to apply beginning next application cycle. I will have a decent amount of debt from student loans already, (close to $46k) and PT school just means more and more debt. I don't really have any other debt, I don't have a car payment or a mortgage yet, so I will be able to focus just on student loans once I get out.

I'm assuming I can also find a job that pays well once I get out of PT school. A lot of the therapists I've shadowed had a lot of debt from PT school as well, and have had no problems paying down their loans quickly. It seems a lot of places will start ~60k, or higher depending on where you live. I generally live quite frugally, even if I were to be in a place with a rent of maybe $1,000/mo. I know I can live off quite well off about $16-17,000 per year if I don't do something like buy a car. $20k would be a fairly lavish lifestyle for me. With that in mind 60k even after taxes are taken out is plenty. I can pay off my current loan and the loan I'll need for school in a reasonable amount of time. Secondly I'm not sure, but if you go into inpatient care it seems that nurses and doctors get some of their loans paid for, so it may be the same for therapists as well.
Click to expand...

I have done the math (A LOT) and I agree that whatever is left over after loan payments and rent will still leave enough to live comfortably. I've gotten really good at living frugally and that is the only reason why I think this can work. I'm not looking to live some lavish lifestyle, just want to be comfortable. I think it be doable even with crazy loan payments. Just knowing that so many other students will be in the same boat and making it work is great motivation. Thanks for the feedback!

And of course, if all else fails, there is always the prison option! :p
 
:laugh: I like where this thread is going.

We should set up some kind of PT "slum areas" in every major city where new PT grads can live among each other in very minimalistic (but relatively safe vs. other slum areas) living conditions as they pay off loans. :D
 
I haven't read every response in the thread, so forgive me if it's been covered already.

Perhaps a reasonable route would be to look into deferring admission at the private university until the next cycle. In the meantime, work on paying off your existing debt and strengthening your application for state schools next cycle.

If you don't get into state school next year - you are a year behind, but have less debt going in.
If you do get into state school next year - you are a year behind, have less debt going in and will accrue less debt in the process.

Now factor in how much you expect to earn your first year on the job as a PT and compare that to what you're currently making. If the difference is large, then the more expensive school might be better because you'll graduate sooner and have that extra salary after year one.

So...

Ps = Probability of getting into state school next year
Cs = Cost of state school tuition, in total (including cost of interest that will accrue over time)
Cp = Cost of private school tuition, in total (including cost of interest that will accrue over time)

Equation A: Cost of if you defer admission
[(Ps)*(Cs) + (1 - Ps)*(Cp)] + (amount of interest that will accrue on your current debt in 4 years time - amount of principle and interest you will pay off by using money earned in 1 year before beginning school)

Equation B: Cost if you accept admission
Cp - Expected salary of first year on the job as a PT in your area + amount of interest that would accrue on your current debt in 3 years time


Somebody might want to check the variables behind the equations to see if they make sense. This would be a starting point in weighing the options I proposed above. If A > B, then it would be best to accept admission now, and vice versa. Of course watever you decide to do will have a lot to do with family obligations and life situations, but this equation could be a starting point for a decision from a financial perspective.
 
Ichiroo - Holy cow, you have really broken it all down! I thought I had crunched the numbers every possible way, but this is an interesting approach. I may actually have to plug in some numbers and see what I get. Of course, I'm not sure I can quantify my probably of getting into state. I'm pretty shocked that I even made it onto a waitlist this cycle. Other factors to consider: I am unemployed so current income = $0. And I am certain that, for me: 1 year of income as PT > 1 year of income at whatever job I could find for the next year. Just something else to consider. Oh and I am hella old, so waiting another year is not so appealing. However, this is intriguing, and I think I will play with these equations and see what comes up. Need something to do anyway between studying physiology...and waiting to find out if I got in or not...

Thanks for the input!
:)
 
rangardrum - I was thinking something along the lines of a new-grad PT commune! We could even grow our own food. And raise sheep for wool to weave our own clothing! Am I taking this too far???
 
Kepania said:
rangardrum - I was thinking something along the lines of a new-grad PT commune! We could even grow our own food. And raise sheep for wool to weave our own clothing! Am I taking this too far???
Click to expand...

Okay, now this is a much better idea! Good neighbors + fresh fruits and veggies in addition to wool access.

(I don't think I'd have a clue how to convert wool into a shirt though, haha.)

Perhaps we could all wear uniforms from the wool to make the clothing production more efficient.

Okay, this is starting to sound like a cult now...
 
Kepania said:
rangardrum - I was thinking something along the lines of a new-grad PT commune! We could even grow our own food. And raise sheep for wool to weave our own clothing! Am I taking this too far???
Click to expand...

Bartering worked in the old days oh and we all get free PT services.
 
Free PT sounds great! I definitely need it for an old injury, and cannot afford it right now. Oh the irony. It's actually not a bad idea we got here (not the cult part lol). I've heard of med school grads sharing a house with several other graduates while doing residency.

In all seriousness, this kind of comes back to a concept that several posters' have suggested on this, and other threads: that living like a college student for the first couple of years after graduation is a great way to make a good dent in your loan debt early on. Right now, that's pretty much my plan.
 
I've found a majority of PT students aren't really informed in what's going on in the world around them or have any real perspective on the future of this field. It seems many are short-sighted looking at statistics on the BLS for salary without really understanding where their Salary comes from (Medicare reimbursement rates, etc.).

Long story short, this country has some huge fiscal issues. PT is seen as an ancillary service. Currently what happens when insurance no longer covers PT and the patient starts having to pay out of pocket? 9 out of 10 cases (don't know the exact ratio) the patient doesn't arrive. No patient = no money. Currently we hear about patient's complaining about $20 copays with Medicare flipping most the tab. Private Insurance, historically has looked at Medicare's reimbursement rate to see what they should pay for PT services (paying a percentage of that). When Medicare cuts rates, PTs can forecast what will happen based on these trends.

The sad thing is, many aren't realizing that the pressure on Salaries is going down. While this is the case, Students are getting piled high over their heads in debt. Worse case scenario, how does PT fare on the free market? This is untested waters. The salary is inflated due to the standard, Medicare reimbursement. Not only is their pressure on Medicare reimbursement going down, dynamically it looks to be unsustainable reaching its end relatively shortly it looks like. So things look to be changing drastically. The APTA has destroyed the profession by asking their professionals to get into so much debt.

Do you want to have $100K possibly + debt (now directly lent from the Government) and hear the bad news that Medicare is no longer a viable program? I mean we know that the economics are unsustainable, especially with a Currency that is extremely risky to go into hyperinflation mode as the OPEC currency is moving away from the Dollar as the world's reserve currency.

We like to think that the Govt. is going to bail everyone out, but with what money? America is not only broke, it is trillions of dollars in debt, but this Country is still spending like it has money. Not good.

So I can not recommend anyone to get into the kind of debt that is required for the DPT. I think the Universities have been giving each other high fives behind closed doors that they are still filling the seats.

I asked a PT once about how he thought PT would fare on the free market. He said you can't squeeze water from rocks. The target population is the elderly. Their income comes from fixed sources such as Social Security. Something tells me the little old lady is going to opt out of PT treatment when Gas hits $7 a gallon as she sees her purchasing power go down. Utilities and food wins.

The skeptic says, well everyone will have to buy insurance.

The entire foundation rests upon the fiat currency the world is diversifying away from and the fact that America doesn't produce things anymore. We are on shaky territory. Our welfare-service based economy that has run off the strength of its currency will be a thing of the past.

So I cannot recommend anybody to go through the hoops getting over $100k+ debt for this certification. There is a huge bubble that looks about to pop to correct itself because people haven't decided to correct it the responsible way.
 
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