Drinking Problem

[lostsoul1970s]

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Hello all. This question is posed to whom ever has some answers. I am a medical student at a US school. I have heard that when applying for your liscense there are questions regarding whether you have ever been treated for ETOH/substance abuse. Does this apply to people who are in programs such as AA/NA? I don't want to lie about anything , but I also don't want to have busted my A** for four years and not get my liscense, or end up being on some watch list. Any info please help!!!

Lost

 

[doc05]

Yes, you will be asked. And yes, you must be truthful.

 

[Smurfette]

I don't think being in AA qualifies you for having had treatment for EtOH abuse. I think what they are asking is if you ever sought inpatient or outpatient AODA rehab services in a hospital or other treatment center.

 

[doc05]

AA is treatment for EtOH abuse. It is outpatient group counseling. If you've been sober for a substantial amount of time, it probably won't be a problem as far as getting your license, since alcoholism is very prevalent among physicians.

Best to provide too much information than get burned down the road.

 

[f_w]

Whatever you do, don't lie.

If you state that you have been in treatment for alcoholism in the past, this might buy you an interview with a substance abuse specialist hired by the board to get a feel whether you are at risk ot taking it up again.

Lying on the license application exposes you to the risk of prosecution for perjury. E.g. when during some malpractice action years down the line, the opposing attorney digs up the dirt on you.

 

[dry dre]

You sholdn't have a problem with a license regardless of how you answer the question. If there was a "watch list," I would think that disclosing the history would get you on that list.

If it were me, I'd not disclose the information, unless you have a previous criminal record or recent Hx of the problem (on the latter note you have to be honest with yourself). I don't have an integrity problem, but I do have a problem with certain questions that may be asked of individuals (substance abuse Hx) but not other questions (Hx of violent behavior, any fights, credit problems, philandering (okay, laugh), other traits that might make one's "physician caliber" character suspect). I received a top secret clearance in the military...that process included questions about everything. I think that type of process is more functional (not to mention fair).

Undoubtedly the high-horse folks will tell you that you're "wrong" to lie (and me to suggest it), but I think it's unfair that they aren't expected to list their individual character/personal problems, but you are.

At any rate, I'd spend $150 on a medical licensing lawyer to get guidance here....probably money very well spent.

 

[f_w]

My opposition to lying on a license application has nothing to do with the moral aspect of it.
By lying in a sworn license application, you turn a potential inconvenience (e.g. travelling to a medical board interview) into a felony.

 

[lostsoul1970s]

Thank you all for your i/p.

Unfortunately the rate of alcoholism in medicine is high enough that I am hoping to find someone who has actually had to deal with this. Specifically the AA issue is the one that concerns me. I have never been referred to see anybody, but realized that I needed help on my own and started going to AA. I don't know if this is different from being "turned in" for a problem. Thanks again everyone.

Lost

 

[f_w]

As long as you weren't sent there, it is probably not 'treatment'.

However, at times you will find questions on license or staff applications that go something like : 'Has your use of legal or illegal intoxicating substances ever interfered with your ability to practice medicine in a safe manner'.

 

[Furrball2]

You started going to AA because you thought you had a problem? Is this any different than say a child of an EtOHist who goes to ALANON? What if I drank too much one night and said never again and started going to AA for my own reasons, I don't think I would have to report it. But I think you should keep close tabs on yourself and do what you need to do to keep yourself on the wagon, eg AA or counseling.

 

[kas23]

Doesn't AA mean Alcoholics ANONYMOUS. Do they keep records of people at these meetings? What is there, a sign-in sheet, like a drug rep lunch? If so, doesn't sound too anonymous to me. Bottom line; unless some judge ordered you to go to AA meetings, do NOT disclose this information. Disclosure will undoubtly jeopardize your career, if it is not necessary.

It almost seems like NOT seeking help for any problem (drugs, alcoholism, psychiatric problems) is a better alternative then getting help. Once you get help, then you have to disclose it, then you get screwed.

 

[lostsoul1970s]

I have sent an annonymous email to a MD/JD prof at my school who deals with medical ethical/legal issues. Hopefully this will give a more definitive legal answer. Thank you all for your advice and i/p. I will let you know what he says if he returns my e-mail.

 

[doc05]

Doesn't AA mean Alcoholics ANONYMOUS. Do they keep records of people at these meetings? What is there, a sign-in sheet, like a drug rep lunch? If so, doesn't sound too anonymous to me. Bottom line; unless some judge ordered you to go to AA meetings, do NOT disclose this information. Disclosure will undoubtly jeopardize your career, if it is not necessary.

It almost seems like NOT seeking help for any problem (drugs, alcoholism, psychiatric problems) is a better alternative then getting help. Once you get help, then you have to disclose it, then you get screwed.

disclosure will not ruin your career. not disclosing and having problems down the road? that will ruin your career.

 

[AzMichelle]

AA is treatment for EtOH abuse. It is outpatient group counseling. If you've been sober for a substantial amount of time, it probably won't be a problem as far as getting your license, since alcoholism is very prevalent among physicians.

Best to provide too much information than get burned down the road.

AA is not considered treatment for anything. It is a support group, that's all. Same with N/A, G/A, O/A, etc.

It is not group counseling because there is no counselor, there is no head of the group. It is a group of people giving one another moral support and an exchange of ideas and suggestions. No therapist, no counseling.

AA is as much treatment for alcoholism as Al-Anon is treatment for alcoholism. It isn't.

 

[psychgeek]

If I understand your situation correctly, you have not been diagnosed with a substance abuse disorder by a qualified professional; neither you nor an agent acting on your behalf has paid a treatment provider for services related to substance abuse treatment; and there is no appointment, agreement, or general understanding dictating whether or not you ever attend another AA/NA meeting. In addition, there are no records of your attendance at an AA/NA meeting, and anyone who may have seen you there is forbidden from revealing this information. Basically, you attend a confidential support group open to both substance abusers and those who question whether or not they have a substance abuse problem whenever you feel like it. This does not constitute “receiving treatment” as far as I or any reasonable mental health professional is concerned.

As an aside, how crappy is this question? So people who make the mature and responsible decision to seek treatment for a life-threatening disorder should be considered less qualified to be a doctor than those who lack the insight to realize when their substance use had become a problem? Apparently we would rather have doctors who are drunk and high than doctors who as good at managing their own illnesses as they are at addressing the illnesses of their patients.

 

[Smurfette]

If I understand your situation correctly, you have not been diagnosed with a substance abuse disorder by a qualified professional; neither you nor an agent acting on your behalf has paid a treatment provider for services related to substance abuse treatment; and there is no appointment, agreement, or general understanding dictating whether or not you ever attend another AA/NA meeting. In addition, there are no records of your attendance at an AA/NA meeting, and anyone who may have seen you there is forbidden from revealing this information. Basically, you attend a confidential support group open to both substance abusers and those who question whether or not they have a substance abuse problem whenever you feel like it. This does not constitute “receiving treatment” as far as I or any reasonable mental health professional is concerned.

As an aside, how crappy is this question? So people who make the mature and responsible decision to seek treatment for a life-threatening disorder should be considered less qualified to be a doctor than those who lack the insight to realize when their substance use had become a problem? Apparently we would rather have doctors who are drunk and high than doctors who as good at managing their own illnesses as they are at addressing the illnesses of their patients.

Well said...that was what I was trying to say in the first place and didn't convey well.

Attending AA simply by your own choice does not = treatment for substance abuse. Anybody can attend an AA meeting if they want to.

Anybody think alcohol assessment classes mandated by the court for people caught underage drinking should count? I don't think they should count (if nothing came of it), but I think that is more murky and should qualify for disclosure status before voluntary attendance at AA should.

 

[MSHell]

As an aside, how crappy is this question? So people who make the mature and responsible decision to seek treatment for a life-threatening disorder should be considered less qualified to be a doctor than those who lack the insight to realize when their substance use had become a problem? Apparently we would rather have doctors who are drunk and high than doctors who as good at managing their own illnesses as they are at addressing the illnesses of their patients.

This is my predicament as well. But all this legal crap almost makes me wish that I had never gone to outpatient rehab. Almost. I did what was best for myself, as the OP did for his/herself and now this? Some of my classmates get trashed a few times a week, do they have to disclose their drinking habits? Likely not. But those of us who quit are required say that we haven't had a drink in X number of years.

 

[lostsoul1970s]

After consulting an attorney I found that you are required to disclose AA attendence (even if it was voluntary). This may vary from state to state, but in my state the wording of the questions on the application is such that not disclosing could bring problems later. Thank you all for your input and advice.

Lost