Drug Testing in Clinical PsyD programs?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
R

RoyC

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
I will be entering a University PsyD program in the Fall, one that has a clinic component starting the first semester in the university's clinic. They have already asked for a background check (which is sparkling clean ofcorse) and did not mention a drug test at all. My question arises, is it common for psych clinics or programs to drug test? I occasionally use marijuana with some friends (ranging from 0-3 times a month) and really enjoy the times that I do, especially as they are winding down and culminating in my move across the country for school. I have never been a heavy user, but it is something I do quite enjoy responsably with my close friends.

Granted, if push comes to shove I will ofcorse stop smoking even due to uncertinatly about the drug testing, but honestly, I dont really want to. Just a little info would be of help. Thanks.


- Roy
Members don't see this ad.
 
A bit of advice: don't ever admit to using drugs on an internet message board.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
ofcorse it is common for programs with a clinic component to drug test, afterall, it would not be responsAble for them not to.

You need to certinatly re-evaluate what is important to you in life. Drugs or a career?

My advice: lay off the drugs.
 
ofcorse my career is more important...but alas, why not at least ask?
 
Most practica sites, especially VAs will drug test. I was also chosen for a random one when I practicum at my VA. In other words, its usually the prac sites, not the programs that drug test..but you should expect to get it a couple times at least during your grad school career. If you're only using that amount, I would recommend you just stop. Its a waste of time, could become a legal issue.... and your lungs will thank you.:D
 
erg923 said:
Most practica sites, especially VAs will drug test. I was also chosen for a random one when I practicum at my VA. In other words, its usually the prac sites, not the programs that drug test..but you should expect to get it a couple times at least during your grad school career. If you're only using that amount, I would recommend you just stop. Its a waste of time, could become a legal issue.... and your lungs will thank you.:D
Click to expand...



I already knew about the practicum sights as I used to work for a hospital and was tested, and ofcorse, didn't smoke when I worked there. My question was more directed in the university based clinic direction.

To a certain extent I feel my question should have been worded

"I like smoking and I know I have to stop for grad school but don't want to so Ill pretend to be surprised when I ask and find out that in fact I do have to" lol yeaaaa.
 
Schools do not test, nor should they. However, most practicum or internship sites will as will many employment sites in the real world. Here in Colorado marijuana is legal if you qualify with a medical condition so you could probably get by, but the best advice was already stated. Lay off pot for a few years.
 
Don't worry, after your first month in grad school caffeine will become your new drug of choice.
 
Advertising you actually like Phish is the same thing......:laugh:
 
stigmata said:
Advertising you actually like Phish is the same thing......:laugh:
Click to expand...

Indeed, i love the greatest rock band of our generation. :)

and what does it say about someone when they are counseled by a phish fan to avoid drug talk? lol.
 
Rivi said:
Don't worry, after your first month in grad school caffeine will become your new drug of choice.
Click to expand...

Haha I'm sure...I've heard the first semester is a tough one.

And granted, I never was or am, the smoke or drink with work to do kinda guy, so if I'm that busy, it will probably be a non-issue for me anyway.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
progter said:
ofcorse it is common for programs with a clinic component to drug test, afterall, it would not be responsAble for them not to.

You need to certinatly re-evaluate what is important to you in life. Drugs or a career?

My advice: lay off the drugs.
Click to expand...

Progter, you are my new hero of life.
 
deleted see below.. (im bad at quoting)
 
Nice glad to see the spelling gestapo has come to town....
 
Last edited:
RoyC said:
Nice glad to see the spelling gestapo has come to town....
Click to expand...

what type of responses did you expect when you are posting about whether or not you can still use drugs while in grad school and providing therapy to patients and its ridden w/ mistakes?

This thread should be stickied and whenever a new thread about "phd vs. psyd quality of students" gets made, we can just point ppl to this thread and then all will be understood.
 
progter said:
what type of responses did you expect when you are posting about whether or not you can still use drugs while in grad school and providing therapy to patients and its ridden w/ mistakes?

This thread should be stickied and whenever a new thread about "phd vs. psyd quality of students" gets made, we can just point ppl to this thread and then all will be understood.
Click to expand...

Epic, progter, epic.
 
progter said:
This thread should be stickied and whenever a new thread about "phd vs. psyd quality of students" gets made, we can just point ppl to this thread and then all will be understood.
Click to expand...

Overgeneralize much? :rolleyes:
 
progter said:
what type of responses did you expect when you are posting about whether or not you can still use drugs while in grad school and providing therapy to patients and its ridden w/ mistakes?

This thread should be stickied and whenever a new thread about "phd vs. psyd quality of students" gets made, we can just point ppl to this thread and then all will be understood.
Click to expand...


Wow glad you can generalize the quality of my work as a student and a professional based on a couple spelling errors.

Do you judge your clients this quickly? I sure hope not.... : /




Maybe on the other hand you should sticky it.

So we can all also generalize that PhD students are judgmental know-it-all's.

Hey, but on the other hand, at least you can spell right?
 
Last edited:
I do not agree or condone those inflaming comments, but I'm sure you can understand how/why your question elicited such sarcastic and quip responses....

1.) Your original post basically said: "Um, hey guys, can I continue to use drugs (which apparently you "really enjoy") while getting my doctorate and working with patients.... and not get caught doing it?

Um, no dude....you cant...

2. Your admission to relatively frequent indulgence in mind-altering substances, combined with such poor spelling was an easy target for jokes and overall "breakin your balls" some, as Tony Soprano would probably say. You have to be able to see that, right?

If you succeed in your doctoral program, you will look back and (hopefully) be quite embarrassed by your need to ask this question...
 
Last edited:
RoyC said:
Wow glad you can generalize the quality of my work as a student and a professional based on a couple spelling errors.

Do you judge your clients this quickly? I sure hope not.... : /




Maybe on the other hand you should sticky it.

So we can all also generalize that PhD students are judgmental know-it-all's.

Hey, but on the other hand, at least you can spell right?
Click to expand...

Nope, pretty sure it was also the admitted drug use.

And never underestimate the need to be able to spell well while in a DOCTORAL PROGRAM.
 
progter said:
what type of responses did you expect when you are posting about whether or not you can still use drugs while in grad school and providing therapy to patients and its ridden w/ mistakes?

This thread should be stickied and whenever a new thread about "phd vs. psyd quality of students" gets made, we can just point ppl to this thread and then all will be understood.
Click to expand...

I think this comment is incredibly rude. I'm quite shocked at the behavior of some of the well educated people on this board.
 
erg923 said:
I do not agree or condone those inflaming comments, but I'm sure you can understand how/why your question elicited such sarcastic and quip responses....

1.) Your original post basically said: "Um, hey guys, can I continue to use drugs (which apparently you "really enjoy") while getting my doctorate and working with patients.... and not get caught doing it?

Um, no dude....you cant...

2. Your admission to relatively frequent indulgence in mind-altering substances, combined with such poor spelling was an easy target for jokes and overall "breakin your balls" some, as Tony Soprano would probably say. You have to be able to see that, right?

If you succeed in your doctoral program, you will look back and (hopefully) be quite embarrassed by your need to ask this question...
Click to expand...


I can look back right now, its hysterical. The irony is quite funny. Doesn't mean said comments were necessary.

This thread got way off topic.

I just leave you guys with this....

http://marijuana-uses.com/

Peace
 
progter said:
This thread should be stickied and whenever a new thread about "phd vs. psyd quality of students" gets made, we can just point ppl to this thread and then all will be understood.
Click to expand...

As a psychologist with a Psy.D. (at an R1 university), I find this incredibly rude and unprofessional.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
As a psychologist with a Psy.D. (at an R1 university), I find this incredibly rude and unprofessional.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I aspire to get into a good PsyD program, and when I do, I will be proud of my accomplishment. I will never feel inferior to a PhD, even if they are under the false assumption that their education is superior.
 
the comment wasn't meant to generalize all psyds

it was a sarcastic joke, I was just breaking his balls

I have no issue or stake in the psyd/phd game, my joke was meant to be taken as this guy is the reason psyd's get a bad rep and he isn't helping the cause

I apologize to anyone I offended, my sarcastic humor gets me into trouble at times =]

To the OP: If drugs are that important to you, get out of our field, you aren't doing it any good with that mentality.
 
Just to re-iterate in case the actual advice got lost in the other comments...

Your program will most likely NOT test. As one professor told me "why did you think I decided to go into academia? because it's a career field that doesn't drug test"

Your clinical placements have a strong chance of testing you. It should also be made clear early on if they do test before and/or random testing.
 
Every place I've worked (practica, internship, etc) did a drug test before starting. I was never randomly tested after that, though I was told that if a hospital suspects you are using and/or impaired, they can and often do seek another drug test. They want to limit their liability, so it makes sense.
 
The mass of holier-than-thou drug comments induce heavy eye-rolling. These god-like beings never drink alcohol, I suppose, and would never think to comment that people better stop drinking any alcohol before starting grad school.

pppppft. :rolleyes:
 
This conversation does bring up quite an important topic of "use" in general.

Ex: How one deals with the dissonance inducing situation of using drugs, and by drugs I mean alcohol, pot, caffeine (yes caffeine can be abused and may of us do) or any prescription drug that we all seem to take without worry, when treating those with substance abuse.

As many of us will have a beer or glass of wine after work to relax from the stress of the day, many of those with mental illness are automatically assumed to be abusers if they engage in this behavior. (Not including those who ignore medication issues that cannot be used with alcohol) Is this true? Are we allowing those with a SPMI diagnosis the range of "normal" behavior and emotionality they deserve?

Sorry that got way more philosophical than I intended, but still very interesting.
 
I'm not sure its really about that...as we all have the right to personal choices outside of work and all of us have habits that are probably not all that healthy. So obviously we are all gonna be hypocrites here, to some degree. It just struck me as a very immature and silly question for someone going to graduate school (e.g. How long can I keep using?). Just not sure why thats such a priority or an issue. Don't you (shouldn't you) have more pressing questions/interests/priorities at this juncture?
 
ltj999 said:
Ex: How one deals with the dissonance inducing situation of using drugs, and by drugs I mean alcohol, pot, caffeine (yes caffeine can be abused and may of us do) or any prescription drug that we all seem to take without worry, when treating those with substance abuse.
Click to expand...
I consulted on a case where the patient had a Hx of gang participation, dealing drugs, using cocaine and smoking marijuana. When I came across the case he was 6 months out, stopped dealing, stopped using cocaine, tried to distance himself from gang activity, improved his living situation, secured a legitimate job, but he still smoked marijuana multiple times a day. He was dead set against giving up smoking marijuana, citing the calming and bonding effects it had on him and his peer group.

The therapist did a great job with the case, though s/he was frustrated with the marijuana use....because of the risk of violating parole, not the act itself. S/he was frustrated because if the patient violated their parole he would go back to jail, lose his job, lose his housing, etc. I asked about the actual use, and s/he said that they smoked regularly and for similar reasons, and that it was hard to advocating stopping while they kept smoking.

I suggested looking at the case from a harm reduction standpoint; if caught the patient would go back to jail (1+ years) and take 10 steps backwards from his improved life, so abstinence made the most sense and was in the patient's best interest. S/he countered with a description of what would happen if they were caught at their practica, a fine rebuttal. I then went to the psychology equivalent of, "because I said so." and said that they are the patient and you are the therapist, and you are there to help them, which didn't include interjecting personal feelings into the situation. I guess it is true....everything I need to know I learned in Kindergarden....and 6+ years of graduate training. :laugh:
 
RoyC said:
Wow glad you can generalize the quality of my work as a student and a professional based on a couple spelling errors.

Do you judge your clients this quickly? I sure hope not.... : /
Click to expand...

Actually, yes, sometimes you have to judge that quickly, and you better be right if they are suicidal.

So we can all also generalize that PhD students are judgmental know-it-all's.
Click to expand...
You could, you'd be wrong.

Look, it's no secret that on traditional measures of "student quality" that Psy.D. (unfunded) students, in general, perform at a lower level than Ph.D. (funded) students, in general. Whether these measures of "student quality" have any validity is another discussion entirely. Fact is that no one wants to be second best, especially when people working so hard to attain their goals.
 
teo3099 said:
That's a very interesting dilemma. It seems to me that you'd have to advocate the best interest for your client regardless of your own actions and deal with your own behaviors and cognitive dissonance separately. Easier said than done no doubt. Plus, the realization/appearance of hypocrisy by a client really could damage the therapeutic relationship. Not many would trust a 2-pack-a-day oncologist (or at least take their advice), for instance.
Click to expand...


Exactly.

I recently had a client at the psychiatric day program I work at with a similar dilemma.

I was working with the client on obtaining housing. His presenting psychiatric diagnosis is depression and although he is involved in smoking marijuana he does not have a diagnosed substance abuse issue. Because he was not presenting clean urines I told him that he would have to go into MICA CR housing, although he and many of his staff do not consider him "drug dependent" and a candidate of MICA housing given his level of high functioning. Placing this client in a MICA residence would really not be a good fit for his relationship with pot in addition to his level of functioning. Basically I took the stand point that although he may not have been "addicted" to pot, or a heavy user, it was still preventing him from obtaining his goals, i.e. housing, because of the dirty urines. Thus his "occasional" pot use became a presenting drug abuse issue; even if not in the classic sense of drug dependency and addiction like is seen with many other dual diagnosis patients.

End of the story, he stopped smoking pot, presented clean urines and was able to obtain a high level of supported housing.

Moral of the story for me at least, use to abuse of drugs is much more of a sliding scale than it is a light switch; shades of gray rather than black and white. With this client, for quite a while it seems, his smoking was "use" of sorts, he did it out of the public eye and it (supposedly) did not interfere with his long work history. However, once within the mental health system the status quo changed, and his use turned to abuse, because it was significantly holding him back. (Granted exploring the base of his use of marijuana and its links to his long term depression is indeed a factor, but that was not the topic of this isolated issue) I was just glad that he was receptive to such suggestions and under stood the significant implications of his even "infrequent" marijuana use.
 
First of all, two of the people who gave the OP a hard time about his (?) spelling made apostrophe errors, but whatever.

Second, the OP just hasn't learned yet that this profession, with exceptions of course, has reefer madness. OP, always assume a drug test and prepare accordingly. Then keep your mouth shut, do your work well, and be grateful YOUR drug of choice has such a low mortality rate compared to alcohol.
 
(sigh) The most important point to take away is that if you want to use drugs, DON'T ADVERTISE IT ONLINE. Don't tell anyone who you think might be someone you may possibly encounter professionally in the future. Yes, this is just a message board, but what worries me for the OP is that he may think it's okay to chat with anyone about this.

Keep it under wraps. That's why you can google things, so that you can get answers without attaching admitted drug use to yourself, even if only online. Smarten up, man.
 
I certainly have no problem with the proposition (however radical it may be) that responsible use of virtually any currently-illegal drug may be possible. However, if you're being drug tested randomly by your employer, regardless of the injustice of it, it shouldn't be an issue for you to stop. If it is, then either you don't value your job enough (and should find a different employer), or you have a more serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Personally, as a philosophical matter, I think random drug testing in any profession is inane. Random performance testing, or testing for cause (e.g., after accidents) makes much more sense. I look forward to the day (which may actually be multiple years away for me) when I can work for an employer (e.g., academia or private practice most likely) who treats me a bit more like an adult than a child.
 
Markp said:
Look, it's no secret that on traditional measures of "student quality" that Psy.D. (unfunded) students, in general, perform at a lower level than Ph.D. (funded) students, in general. Whether these measures of "student quality" have any validity is another discussion entirely. Fact is that no one wants to be second best, especially when people working so hard to attain their goals.
Click to expand...

What is a traditional measure of student quality?

If PsyD students did in fact perform at a lower level, does that mean that they do not offer as much to a program? If it is an entirely different discussion why mention it?

All PsyD programs and students are unfunded? ... :eyebrow:
 
And who really cares who performs better in school? A better measure would be success in the field 5 years post licensure.
 
Syzygy117 said:
What is a traditional measure of student quality?
Click to expand...

Markp can correct me if I'm reading his original post wrong, but I assumed he meant measures like GRE scores and undergraduate GPA.

Syzygy117 said:
If PsyD students did in fact perform at a lower level, does that mean that they do not offer as much to a program?
Click to expand...

Not sure how you would operationalize this. Would any program really report that their students don't offer anything of value? Anyway, I don't think that students' subjective value to a particular program would tell us very much. As Stigmata mentioned, a better indicator would be some sort of measure of career success after school.

Syzygy117 said:
All PsyD programs and students are unfunded? ... :eyebrow:
Click to expand...

Nah, nor are all PhD students funded. The PsyD versus PhD debates are often shorthand for professional versus traditional models. But you have to admit that, when we're speaking in generalizations, a PsyD program is less likely to be funded than a PhD program.
 
KillerDiller said:
Markp can correct me if I'm reading his original post wrong, but I assumed he meant measures like GRE scores and undergraduate GPA.



Not sure how you would operationalize this. Would any program really report that their students don't offer anything of value? Anyway, I don't think that students' subjective value to a particular program would tell us very much. As Stigmata mentioned, a better indicator would be some sort of measure of career success after school.



Nah, nor are all PhD students funded. The PsyD versus PhD debates are often shorthand for professional versus traditional models. But you have to admit that, when we're speaking in generalizations, a PsyD program is less likely to be funded than a PhD program.
Click to expand...

Sounds good, thank you for responding/clarifying. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

C
Clinical PsyD vs Clinical psychology PhD
Replies
7
Views
1K
cytomegalovirus123
C
memiller
  • Locked
Immaculata and Uhartford PsyD programs
Replies
1
Views
607
PsychSupreme
PsychSupreme
memiller
Uhartford PsyD program
Replies
0
Views
514
memiller
memiller
memiller
Applying to PsyD programs
Replies
9
Views
2K
chicandtoughness
chicandtoughness
memiller
PsyD programs in Pennsylvania
Replies
7
Views
807
WisNeuro
WisNeuro
Top