Drug Testing

[QuaintQuail]

Hey guys!

I am curious about drug testing for vet schools. I think I'm going to end up visiting Colorado this summer, and I don't want to fail a test despite the legality of marijuana in CO. I'm most concerned about Wisconsin and Tennessee (I'm not sure where I'll end up yet).

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[deleted480308]

Then don't do drugs

 

[Trilt]

Recent thread on the topic

 

[QuaintQuail]

Then don't do drugs

Thanks for the valuable info.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Hey guys!

I am curious about drug testing for vet schools. I think I'm going to end up visiting Colorado this summer, and I don't want to fail a test despite the legality of marijuana in CO. I'm most concerned about Wisconsin and Tennessee (I'm not sure where I'll end up yet).

Haven't been tested here at CSU. I don't smoke but I know classmates do. Do what you want to do on your own free time, just don't let it affect your schooling. Read campus policy though, even though it's legal statewide.

Then don't do drugs

Don't be a tool.

 

[DVMDream]

Don't be a tool.

I'm confused as to how that advice=being a tool???

That's actually the best advice. There are honor codes about drug use at schools, don't want to get caught, then the best thing is to not do them. It really is that simple.

Want to still smoke weed on the weekend? Go for it, I don't care but you run the risk of getting caught. The OP has to decide if it is worth that risk or not.

 

[singhb09]

I'm confused as to how that advice=being a tool???

That's actually the best advice. There are honor codes about drug use at schools, don't want to get caught, then the best thing is to not do them. It really is that simple.

Want to still smoke weed on the weekend? Go for it, I don't care but you run the risk of getting caught. The OP has to decide if it is worth that risk or not.

I think he may have been referring to the fact that he condescendingly said "then don't do drugs" instead of making valid points about honor systems and giving advice like a normal human being. While I don't assume it's the case here, many do use it for legitimate medicinal purposes. I have severe foraminal stenosis, for example, and even after a laminectomy I still have trouble sleeping and hate relying on pain killers alone. So yes, that was kind of a douche response

 

[SportPonies]

I know this is mentioned in different context in the thread linked above and also suggested at in this thread, but it's also important to remember that marijuana is still illegal on a federal level, so even if it's legal in a specific state, any federal institution is required to abide by federal law. What you do in Colorado may be legal in Colorado, but if that follows you to school in a different state (ie, drug test), it's going to be treated just the same as if you did it in that state. Seems you know that though, based on the fact you're asking this question in the first place.

I guess ultimately it's your decision, but if you worked this hard to get this far, is it worth risking your accomplishments for a summer of getting high, even if it is just an off chance you'll get caught?

 

[DVMDream]

I think he may have been referring to the fact that he condescendingly said "then don't do drugs" instead of making valid points about honor systems and giving advice like a normal human being. While I don't assume it's the case here, many do use it for legitimate medicinal purposes. I have severe foraminal stenosis, for example, and even after a laminectomy I still have trouble sleeping and hate relying on pain killers alone. So yes, that was. kind of a douche response

I think you're reading more into that post than you need to. He wasn't being rude just very honest, there is a difference between being outright rude and being blunt/honest and that tone is lost on the Internet.

 

[singhb09]

I think you're reading more into that post than you need to. He wasn't being rude just very honest, there is a difference between being outright rude and being blunt/honest and that tone is lost on the Internet.

Not necessarily. Tone has nothing to do with the fact that the post in question had no follow-up advice other than "don't do X thing". Regardless of someone's stance on it, it would be nice to add some follow-up logic to a statement that might actually help OP. Either way, I'm not looking to derail this thread.

OP: I'd go with what the majority has said and do some research into school honor codes and how it could potentially affect you and whether or not it is worth that risk.

 

[DVMDream]

Not necessarily. Tone has nothing to do with the fact that the post in question had no follow-up advice other than "don't do X thing". Regardless of someone's stance on it, it would be nice to add some follow-up logic to a statement that might actually help OP. Either way, I'm not looking to derail this thread.

OP: I'd go with what the majority has said and do some research into school honor codes and how it could potentially affect you and whether or not it is worth that risk.

It didn't need any follow up. By itself, it is solid, sound, reasonable advice. I get the want for there to be more, but there didn't need to be more. I'll liken it to advice you'll receive from rotations in final year of vet school...some rotations you simply got a "needs to improve records" or "did well on x" or "needs improvement with communication" and many rotations, they don't give any feedback at all.

Yes, thorough advice is nice but it isn't necessary, it is just a want.

Anyway, back to original thread.

Look at school honor codes OP and read that linked thread. There's more to think about than just school codes, including DEA licenses and other licenses in the future.

 

[Hopeful_DVM]

Hey guys!

I am curious about drug testing for vet schools. I think I'm going to end up visiting Colorado this summer, and I don't want to fail a test despite the legality of marijuana in CO. I'm most concerned about Wisconsin and Tennessee (I'm not sure where I'll end up yet).

If cocaine and heroine were legalized would it make it okay for veterinarians/veterinary students to use these drugs recreationally as well?

 

[pinkpuppy9]

It didn't need any follow up. By itself, it is solid, sound, reasonable advice. I get the want for there to be more, but there didn't need to be more. I'll liken it to advice you'll receive from rotations in final year of vet school...some rotations you simply got a "needs to improve records" or "did well on x" or "needs improvement with communication" and many rotations, they don't give any feedback at all.

Yes, thorough advice is nice but it isn't necessary, it is just a want.

Anyway, back to original thread.

Look at school honor codes OP and read that linked thread. There's more to think about than just school codes, including DEA licenses and other licenses in the future.

Yeah, don't forget about those. Our associate dean gave us a talk on this during orientation week last year. He basically said "I don't give a damn what you do on the weekends as long as you're not wearing a vet med shirt or harming yourself, but keep in mind any charges brought against you can/will result in you not being able to prescribe drugs as a veterinarian."

If cocaine and heroine were legalized would it make it okay for veterinarians/veterinary students to use these drugs recreationally as well?

You're going to probably get an equal # of responses for either side. Some people feel that if it doesn't affect your medicine or academics, it's fine. Others feel that someone practicing medicine shouldn't go home to use mind altering substances, but then you raise the question about alcohol. It's a can of worms. IMO it's a gray area...I myself enjoy a glass of wine or beer occasionally or a drink with friends. I choose not to do other drugs. I have classmates that do smoke weed, and they aren't failing. However, if you are going through the day looking forward to/counting on being able to go home and start drinking/smoking, idk. That's heading toward dependency if you ask me, but again it's my opinion.

 

[nyanko]

weed is not worse than alcohol

 

[vetmedhead]

There's more to think about than just school codes, including DEA licenses and other licenses in the future.

This was always the big sticking point for me. I'm in CO and recognize that it's legal here but I get drug tested often for the various jobs I work and also do not want to be in the position where I have a shiny new DVM degree and no ability to obtain a DEA license so I can actually prescribe medication and practice.

If marijuana were treated differently on a federal level I would possibly feel differently, but until then I personally feel more comfortable just avoiding it. I don't have a particularly strong opinion on marijuana either way but I think the potential consequences from using it for me personally are too great.

 

[vetmedhead]

weed is not worse than alcohol

Then why is it called the Devil's Lettuce?

 

[Trilt]

There's just a difference between being helpful ("I suggest not doing drugs even though they're legal in your state because they're federally illegal and may impact things such as DEA license, etc") and just being blunt ("don't do drugs.")

Yes, obviously not partaking at all makes it a moot point. But since the person is asking, they're obviously hoping for a bit more feedback than that.

 

[DVMDream]

There's just a difference between being helpful ("I suggest not doing drugs even though they're legal in your state because they're federally illegal and may impact things such as DEA license, etc") and just being blunt ("don't do drugs.")

Yes, obviously not partaking at all makes it a moot point. But since the person is asking, they're obviously hoping for a bit more feedback than that.

I agree there is a difference but the point is a blunt person isn't a necessarily a rude person.

For example, I work with 3 wonderful vets, but if I want feedback or advice on a case and I want more than "yeah, that's good" or "no, I'd do this" then I shouldn't ask the one vet. That doesn't mean his short, blunt advice isn't helpful and it isn't rude.. it just isn't as thorough as I would get from the other two vets. Clearly I learn more from more thorough explanations, but if I need guidance and he's the only vet there, well his advice while blunt is better than no advice. Basically, blunt doesn't automatically equal rude... some people just are to the point, it is just a matter of getting used to different people/styles.

 

[VetMed812]

I know this is mentioned in different context in the thread linked above and also suggested at in this thread, but it's also important to remember that marijuana is still illegal on a federal level, so even if it's legal in a specific state, any federal institution is required to abide by federal law. What you do in Colorado may be legal in Colorado, but if that follows you to school in a different state (ie, drug test), it's going to be treated just the same as if you did it in that state. Seems you know that though, based on the fact you're asking this question in the first place.

I guess ultimately it's your decision, but if you worked this hard to get this far, is it worth risking your accomplishments for a summer of getting high, even if it is just an off chance you'll get caught?

This is a great point. I have a friend in Washington that does not partake even though it is legal there for the reason you describe. Generally I see it as poor form as someone who gates access to drugs to "abuse" a schedule 1 drug. (I'm not saying it should be categorized this way, just that it is and that is how it comes across).

Plus I'm going to throw it back to my undergraduate days when I took biochemistry and smoked once and then forgot all of my amino acids. I had to relearn them. I can't imagine having to do that with vet school material. Maybe you're smarter than me and will retain it better haha.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

If cocaine and heroine were legalized would it make it okay for veterinarians/veterinary students to use these drugs recreationally as well?

Are you really going to get on the sad old high horse of pretended morality? Are you really comparing heroin and cocaine to weed? Idiotic. Give me a feckin break.

Alcohol is legal and it is far, FAR worse and more addictive than weed. You want to rail against something? Rail against that.

 

[Jota93]

Plus I'm going to throw it back to my undergraduate days when I took biochemistry and smoked once and then forgot all of my amino acids. I had to relearn them. I can't imagine having to do that with vet school material. Maybe you're smarter than me and will retain it better haha.

Lol What

 

[WildZoo]

Don't be a tool.

Is snark not allowed around here anymore? Dammit, I'm not going to have anything to say now...

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I think you're reading more into that post than you need to. He wasn't being rude just very honest, there is a difference between being outright rude and being blunt/honest and that tone is lost on the Internet.

Truth. Sb doesn't beat around the bush.

It also tends to be lost on any subforum outside the Lounge and SPF.

 

[VetMed812]

Lol What

Yes it was aweful!!! I took biochemistry as a summer course and it was a holiday weekend and I smoked and then forgot all my amino acid structures! That was in the beginning of biochemistry 1 so at least I was able to catch back up. Just me?!?! Haha

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Is snark not allowed around here anymore? Dammit, I'm not going to have anything to say now...

Good. Little girls should be seen and not heard.

 

[WildZoo]

As far as Tennessee goes, don't think you'll have to worry about being drug tested (at least I haven't heard of it happening). Vet school follows the main campus student code of conduct as far as I know, so would check there.

 

[singhb09]

This is a great point. I have a friend in Washington that does not partake even though it is legal there for the reason you describe. Generally I see it as poor form as someone who gates access to drugs to "abuse" a schedule 1 drug. (I'm not saying it should be categorized this way, just that it is and that is how it comes across).

Plus I'm going to throw it back to my undergraduate days when I took biochemistry and smoked once and then forgot all of my amino acids. I had to relearn them. I can't imagine having to do that with vet school material. Maybe you're smarter than me and will retain it better haha.

Lol What

Seriously, I laughed so hard at this. What on earth were you smoking?!

 

[Jota93]

Seriously, I laughed so hard at this. What on earth were you smoking?!

Whatever it was, it must have been crazy good

 

[VetMed812]

Whatever it was, it must have been crazy good

Seriously, I laughed so hard at this. What on earth were you smoking?!

What can I say, I went a little hard. Only the good stuff or at least that's what they tell me.

 

[Trilt]

I agree there is a difference but the point is a blunt person isn't a necessarily a rude person.

For example, I work with 3 wonderful vets, but if I want feedback or advice on a case and I want more than "yeah, that's good" or "no, I'd do this" then I shouldn't ask the one vet. That doesn't mean his short, blunt advice isn't helpful and it isn't rude.. it just isn't as thorough as I would get from the other two vets. Clearly I learn more from more thorough explanations, but if I need guidance and he's the only vet there, well his advice while blunt is better than no advice. Basically, blunt doesn't automatically equal rude... some people just are to the point, it is just a matter of getting used to different people/styles.

Some people are blunt, sure, but I feel like what happened here is somewhat the equivalent of you asking about a case and just being told to euthanize the cat. Maybe fixes the problem, but perhaps not what you were going for.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Some people are blunt, sure, but I feel like what happened here is somewhat the equivalent of you asking about a case and just being told to euthanize the cat. Maybe fixes the problem, but perhaps not what you were going for.

Not really.

The equivalent would be "Exactly how much chocolate can I give my dog without making it sick?" and the simple answer would be "If you're worried about it, the simplest thing would just be to not give it chocolate."

Or (although cheating and smoking weed are nowhere near morally equivalent, but let's use it as an argument since both are against schools' honor codes: "I want to cheat on a test but don't want to get caught, what are good strategies/what schools don't look for cheaters" when the best answer is "Dude, just don't cheat."

 

[Trilt]

Not really.

The equivalent would be "Exactly how much chocolate can I give my dog without making it sick?" and the simple answer would be "If you're worried about it, the simplest thing would just be to not give it chocolate."

Or (although cheating and smoking weed are nowhere near morally equivalent, but let's use it as an argument since both are against schools' honor codes: "I want to cheat on a test but don't want to get caught, what are good strategies/what schools don't look for cheaters" when the best answer is "Dude, just don't cheat."

Fair 'nuff. Still not particularly helpful imo.

 

[QuaintQuail]

Thanks everyone for the responses/advice! As it turns out, I don't even think I'll have time or enough funds to travel to Colorado this summer. This question is probably no longer relevant for me but I hope other readers get something out of this thread!

 

[QuaintQuail]

Yes it was aweful!!! I took biochemistry as a summer course and it was a holiday weekend and I smoked and then forgot all my amino acid structures! That was in the beginning of biochemistry 1 so at least I was able to catch back up. Just me?!?! Haha

Biochem was just so boring for me it was hard to remember

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Is snark not allowed around here anymore? Dammit, I'm not going to have anything to say now...

Even if it's not allowed, I will continue to WZ snark until I get banned. Don't you fret child

 

[WildZoo]

Even if it's not allowed, I will continue to WZ snark until I get banned. Don't you fret child

But if you get banned how will I like all your posts?

 

[Caiter92]

Even if it's not allowed, I will continue to WZ snark until I get banned. Don't you fret child

Join snap chat. Can be as snarky as you want without the risk

 

[battie]

Join snap chat. Can be as snarky as you want without the risk

Whoa, whoa, whoa. There's an SDN Snapchat?

 

[deleted480308]

Truth. Sb doesn't beat around the bush.

It also tends to be lost on any subforum outside the Lounge and SPF.

People are apparently sensitive about their weed.

 

[cellowars]

I am in Washington State, and I took CBD-dominant marijuana oil for medical reasons. It really helped my illness, but had a really bad impact on my cognitive functions and coordination.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[nyanko]

Yes it was aweful!!! I took biochemistry as a summer course and it was a holiday weekend and I smoked and then forgot all my amino acid structures! That was in the beginning of biochemistry 1 so at least I was able to catch back up. Just me?!?! Haha

You didn't know them well enough to begin with if you forgot them that easily.

 

[twelvetigers]

You didn't know them well enough to begin with if you forgot them that easily.

Creatine is one group taller than asparagine. If I can remember THAT 10 years after I took biochem (and a long time since that information has been relevant in any way) then I think forgetting them overnight is something that would have happened anyway...

 

[VetMed812]

You didn't know them well enough to begin with if you forgot
them that easily.

Yep

 

[cellowars]

Yep

Actually, no. Marijuana has been proven to cause amnesia.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[LetItSnow]

Actually, no. Marijuana has been proven to cause amnesia.

 

[cdo96]

I got really excited to read this thread because it was over a more controversial topic and it had so many replies... but then I realized I had already read it

 

[LyraGardenia]

Actually, no. Marijuana has been proven to cause amnesia.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[cellowars]

Don't believe me? Stop using marijuana for 30 days and take a professionally administered cognitive test. Then, start using marijuana again and take the same test once more. You will find that your memory and overall functioning are markedly impaired. I guarantee it. That is what I found when I did this as an experiment with a PA.

This is a scholarly article about how marijuana impacts cognitive function: An Evidence Based Review of Acute and Long-Term Effects of Cannabis Use on Executive Cognitive Functions

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[nyanko]

I forgot about this thread. I wonder why.

 

[vetmedhead]

Don't believe me? Stop using marijuana for 30 days and take a professionally administered cognitive test. Then, start using marijuana again and take the same test once more. You will find that your memory and overall functioning are markedly impaired. I guarantee it. That is what I found when I did this as an experiment with a PA.

This is a scholarly article about how marijuana impacts cognitive function: An Evidence Based Review of Acute and Long-Term Effects of Cannabis Use on Executive Cognitive Functions

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There are a ton of issues with trying to conduct good marijuana studies today because of its Schedule I classification by the DEA. The only marijuana you're even allowed to use for those studies is stuff the government grows itself and it's basically the stuff people would have been smoking in the 70s. You'll notice they classified 3.9% THC marijuana as "strong" in this paper - but the average THC content of marijuana you can pick up in the average dispensary in CO is about 18%. There are some strains that are as high as 30%. These studies often aren't as representative as they could be because of issues like that, as well as the extreme difficulty in even getting grants and DEA approval to conduct clinical research on marijuana's effects on pretty much anything.

This was a literature review from 2011 and the majority of the articles they cited were from 1970's-early 2000's. There's a paucity of research here that makes it difficult to draw a lot of foregone conclusions about the stuff. Most available evidence suggests that cognitive impairment is severe in infrequent users and negligible or nonexistent in frequent users (in some studies frequent users actually improved performance on some of these tests after getting high). Frequent users who abstain for a long period of time (e.g. a month) can resensitize themselves to the effects of marijuana and would essentially function the same as an infrequent user initially until they used enough to go back to the frequent user classification.

Most evidence also suggests that marijuana is not really a safe thing for children and teenagers to use because it negatively impacts cognitive development. Cohort studies in other countries followed children until adulthood and found that those who used marijuana during these years were less likely to go to college, more likely to have a lower SES, less likely to be employed, and so on. But if you start smoking after that developmental stage is complete there really isn't much of a difference in standard measures of success between users and non-users.

Don't get me wrong, marijuana is definitely not the amazing-super-great-for-you-cure-all that many of its advocates make it out to be, but it's much less of a black and white subject than you're making it out to be. I would caution you to be careful about determining what the evidence we have on hand actually tells us about its merits and demerits.