Dual degree DO/MD

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So why exactly is this obligatory for applicants?

If I may interject, I believe most of this shadowing/EC nonsense derives from the ongoing arms race between applicants. The MCAT is similar. Older physicians have told me that before the mid 1980's few premeds even studied for the MCAT. Now people routinely spend thousands of dollars on the one of the litany of prep courses. Gotta keep up with the competition, and every year it becomes more difficult to stand out.

Tired said:
It's just all part of this myth that medicine is some kind of special, transcendent experience, when in fact it's just one more career.

You're welcome to your opinion, but when I look into the microscope and realize the person on the bed next to me has seen their last Christmas, it feels a little transcendent.

If I gave in to the more jaded than thou approach so popular with my colleagues then I would see my work as "just one more career," but I choose not to. Being sick and either healing or dying is one of the most powerful experiences humans can have, and we get to participate. That's gotta be worth something.

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No it isn't.

In what way? I mean, I'm learning here, too, so if you can provide me good evidence, I'll listen. But otherwise, I disagree. DOs are known to have a more holistic approach. They intend to look at patients as a whole.

There is no DO approach. And something like 5% of practicing DOs use OMM.

Yes, that is true. But you still have to put up with several years of learning about OMM as well as be tested on it.

:laugh::laugh: What? lol

Why is my opinion funny? I think that's kind of rude.


Might I suggest your advisors aren't as good as you think they are, and your experience doesn't make you as knowledgable as you think. No offense intended.

Of course. I'm still learning, and I gather everything I've seen and experienced.


I'm not ripping on you because you don't know any better, but how about we leave the "this is how it is" stories to people who have rotated through the hospitals, worked the 24 hours shifts, etc.. Otherwise we end up with a bunch of pre-meds who think they know everything because they volunteered/worked in the healthcare field, or their mom/dad/uncle told them ____________. Just to play devil's advocate to all your great advisors and experience: I'm just a 4th year, but there has been zero prejudice against DOs at my hospitals and I've never seen a patient ask my residents, attendings, or me what a DO is. That's anecdotal evidence, just like your's. It may not be universal.

I never said it was universal. There was a reason why I said "California hospital." As I stated, it is a matter of where you go. And I'm not looking down on DOs or anything, but I'm trying to let people know that there is a stigma. Likewise, there's a stigma that Mexicans are uneducated in southern California. And there's a stigma that the South are racist against Blacks. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just trying to let people know that it is something they will have to face, depending on where they go. And believe me, I don't put myself on a pedastal from my experiences. I'm going with what I've learned. Ultimately, I want to practice in SoCal, where a lot of the prejudices exist. At Northwestern Med School, students laugh at the DOs. Thus, at the Northwestern Clinic, DOs are completely looked down upon. Whereas if you go to Arizona, most of the doctors there are DOs, and it's the way of life there.


With all that said, I can't agree with your comments, but I'm open to news, since again, I'm learning through all this too.
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DOs are pretty well accepted in the midwest (I'm in Ohio).
 
RE: My respect comments

In your practice you are going to be respected by your work and how well you handle your patients. Other physicians will refer to and consult with you because you are an excellent physician, not because you are an MD or a DO. The prejudice formed by the medical school you attended will be far outweighed by the quality of doctor you became during your residency. MD/DO doesn't hurt patients, incompetency does and that is individually based, not attached to a degree. You need to earn your respect. It is important to have it, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape because Dr. Watson feels I'm incompetent because I got a DO versus an MD. I will worry when my referrals and consults decline because then I'll know I'm screwing up.
 
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RE: My respect comments

In your practice you are going to be respected by your work and how well you handle your patients. Other physicians will refer to and consult with you because you are an excellent physician, not because you are an MD or a DO. The prejudice formed by the medical school you attended will be far outweighed by the quality of doctor you became during your residency. MD/DO doesn't hurt patients, incompetency does and that is individually based, not attached to a degree. You need to earn your respect. It is important to have it, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape because Dr. Watson feels I'm incompetent because I got a DO versus an MD. I will worry when my referrals and consults decline because then I'll know I'm screwing up.
Pre-meds still don't understand that part of medicine yet :laugh:. They think the patients will come them willingly and without doing their homework and ask for the doctor to perform bipass surgery because they have their MD.
 
If I may interject, I believe most of this shadowing/EC nonsense derives from the ongoing arms race between applicants. The MCAT is similar. Older physicians have told me that before the mid 1980's few premeds even studied for the MCAT. Now people routinely spend thousands of dollars on the one of the litany of prep courses. Gotta keep up with the competition, and every year it becomes more difficult to stand out.

That's certainly a part of it, but the fact that the adcoms bought into it as well shows that there's a problem on both sides of the fence. The applicant pool may have set the tone, but the schools validated the lunacy.

Being sick and either healing or dying is one of the most powerful experiences humans can have, and we get to participate. That's gotta be worth something.

It may be one of the most powerful experiences humans can have, but it's also the most common. And every profession, if they so chose, can stake a claim to participating in powerful/emotional/gut-wrenching/spiritual aspects of human life.

I just saw a personal injury attorney advertise about "being there for you in your time of greatest need". I work with Marines whose wives put stickers on their cars that say "My Husband Defends Our Freedom". IBM advertises now that their products save the environment. Everybody wants to be special.

Of course, at the same time we're so special, all we talk about now is how to spend more time with our families and pursue our outside interests. Apparently powerful experiences are great, as long as they don't exceed 80hrs/wk or 30hrs/shift.
 
That's certainly a part of it, but the fact that the adcoms bought into it as well shows that there's a problem on both sides of the fence. The applicant pool may have set the tone, but the schools validated the lunacy.

I don't see that the schools have much choice, unless they start pooling applicants with similar academic credentials and flip coins to see who gets in.

Tired said:
It may be one of the most powerful experiences humans can have, but it's also the most common. And every profession, if they so chose, can stake a claim to participating in powerful/emotional/gut-wrenching/spiritual aspects of human life.

I just saw a personal injury attorney advertise about "being there for you in your time of greatest need". I work with Marines whose wives put stickers on their cars that say "My Husband Defends Our Freedom". IBM advertises now that their products save the environment. Everybody wants to be special.

Everybody may want to be special, and indeed medicine doesn't have a monopoly on powerful human experiences, but replacing your muffler isn't exactly replacing your liver.

Tired said:
Of course, at the same time we're so special, all we talk about now is how to spend more time with our families and pursue our outside interests. Apparently powerful experiences are great, as long as they don't exceed 80hrs/wk or 30hrs/shift.

Like I said, you're obviously entitled to your opinion, but there are over 600,000 practicing physicians in this country, each with his/her own perspective on the nature of medicine. Some gravitated towards the mundane, others (as you put it) the transcendent. I won't tell you what it means to you, and I'd prefer if you didn't tell me what it means to me.
 
I met this girl whose goal was to get both an MD and a DO. I was like, "You know they're pretty much the same, right?" She was like "Yeah, I know, but I want both." Dumb.
 
And the point of that would be...? By the time you completed your training you would be like 45...
 
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