DUI after medical school acceptance...don't loose hope

Started by doctorgtx
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No need to make a fake account OP lol...and you ran out of luck there tooo ha ha ha...just chilax !
 
sb247 said:
I would have thrown your application away. You got lucky that you didn't kill anyone . You got lucky that the adcom gave you a second chance. Don't prove them wrong.
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nice compassion and understanding, pathetic.
 
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sb247 said:
Driving drunk is an intentional choice not a mistake...don't compare yourself to that student
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Funny thing is 99.9999% of drinkers have driven home after drinking some amount of alcohol. The problem isn't deciding to drive drunk -it's deciding what is too drunk to drive. But god knows there is no shortage of people eager to judge their fellow man.

Let me ask sbman- have you ever driven within 24 hours of drinking? How sure are you that you calculated your sobriety correctly?

PS- my own record is SO squeaky clean. I just have a modicum of understanding not to attack a single instance offender. But hey- pat yourself on the back - you deserve a higher reimbursement than him.
 
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freemontie said:
Funny thing is 99.9999% of drinkers have driven home after drinking some amount of alcohol. The problem isn't deciding to drive drunk -it's deciding what is too drunk to drive. But god knows there is no shortage of people eager to judge their fellow man.

Let me ask sbman- have you ever driven within 24 hours of drinking? How sure are you that you calculated your sobriety correctly?
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It depends on what you mean by "after drinking." Twenty minutes after a couple beers is not the same as four hours after a couple beers.

I think you're making an assumption friend, the majority of people I know don't drive after drinking any alcohol. I drove with a couple of beers in my system maybe two or three times when I was 16. But since I lost a couple of friends to drunks junior year of high school, I haven't driven with any alcohol in my system since. And since when did we not hold future physicians to a higher standard than the general population? There is plenty of data showing that those who drive with any alcohol in their system are exponentially more likely to kill somebody.

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/bac.html

I don't have a dog in this fight. But from an AdCom member's perspective, it's not about judging the student. It's about protecting patients from those who engage in reckless behavior, as it should be. That doesn't mean the OP is a horrible person. Frankly, I couldn't care less if OP's feelings are hurt or if he thinks people should be more sensitive.
 
Me? Nope. I never cheated, but I did break the law, like every other Baby Boomer, with some pot smoking. All Adcom members were young and stupid once and so we do cut people some slack, even people with DUI.

But OP is older and should have known better, and has made posts here that imply s/he doesn't own the transgression. That would be a kiss of death at any of our interviews.

While I've got the knife hold very still while I smack some sense into you. First, I didn't say I'd reject OP, just if he were my student, and he got another DUI, then I'd kick their ass out of my school personally. Good reading comprehension is required for the MCAT, so be extra careful with the VR/CARS section.

Next, if you think OP wasn't a potential killer while driving drunk, tell it to the families of the ~11,ooo people killed by drink drivers in the US last year (soruce http://www.caron.org/understanding-...riving-stats?gclid=CLjg_Zn598YCFVSSfgodvdAEpg).

Tell you what, tell it to SDNer @sb247. Tell it to him.

philosonista said:
The ordinary reasons for keeping a person out (MCAT, GPA, EC's) are not isolated incidents we can easily brush off as flukes. They show a pattern. A one time run in with the law is.

If I were an ADCOM, I would recognize how blunt and erroneous of an instrument admissions is and not be so dramatic at its defense so as to call someone a "potential murderer" who chose to drive a "two ton missile" and that they would be happy to "kick out" the student from their classroom.

Would you have rejected your own application if your worst college indiscretion were recorded on it?
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ZedsDed said:
It depends on what you mean by "after drinking." Twenty minutes after a couple beers is not the same as four hours after a couple beers.

I think you're making an assumption friend, the majority of people I know don't drive after drinking any alcohol. I drove with a couple of beers in my system maybe two or three times when I was 16. But since I lost a couple of friends to drunks junior year of high school, I haven't driven with any alcohol in my system since. And since when did we not hold future physicians to a higher standard than the general population? There is plenty of data showing that those who drive with any alcohol in their system are exponentially more likely to kill somebody.

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/bac.html

I don't have a dog in this fight. But from an AdCom member's perspective, it's not about judging the student. It's about protecting patients from those who engage in reckless behavior, as it should be. That doesn't mean the OP is a horrible person. Frankly, I couldn't care less if OP's feelings are hurt or if he thinks people should be more sensitive.
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By your own admission you are very careful. And yet you self-admittedly have driven drunk "two or three times". You forget that out of many many many academically high-achieving pre-meds like yourself -some are going to get caught out in those "two or three times" most of whom are perhaps MORE law-abiding than yourself and thus their experience of driving drunk was when they were over the drinking age (and not under 16 like yourself which is even more correlated with an accident).

Dude- you are not above those people AT ALL. PERIOD. You just experienced your mistake earlier and got a wake up call earlier. You and sb should have a communal jerk off session for your accomplishment.

PS- you realize you are more likely to have killed than the OP?
 
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freemontie said:
By your own admission you are very careful. And yet you self-admittedly have driven drunk "two or three times". You forget that out of many many many academically high-achieving pre-meds like yourself -some are going to get caught out in those "two or three times" most of whom are perhaps MORE law-abiding than yourself and thus their experience of driving drunk was when they were over the drinking age (and not under 16 like yourself).

Dude- you are not above those people AT ALL. PERIOD. You just experienced your mistake earlier and got a wake up call earlier.
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You missed the part completely where I said it's not about judging the OP. I am not judging the OP. I really don't understand why everyone is so focused on whether or not we should judge the OP, and how sensitive we should be and so on. I'll say again, it's about protecting the patients, from an AdCom's perspective. If the AdCom thinks the student will display such reckless behavior in the future, his ass would be kicked to the curb. In this case, they saw something in him that made them believe it was a one-time mistake. So, lucky for him, he will have the opportunity to prove that their leniency was not a mistake.

As for comparing my 16 yr-old self to OP. Well, I was not very responsible at 20 either (I'm pushing 30.) I would be more suspicious of applicants who drank and drove during their adolescence. If young adults can't maintain responsible behavior, then they should spend several years learning to do so before they apply.

On a side note, I wouldn't 22 year old who drinks and drives more "law-abiding" than a 16 year old who drinks and drives. The 16 year old is stupid, but the 22 year old seriously should've known better.

Edit: Just saw the "jerk off" line you edited in. Guess I made a mistake assuming you were actually trying to have a discussion here. I have no idea what the last question means.
 
ZedsDed said:
You missed the part completely where I said it's not about judging the OP. I am not judging the OP. I really don't understand why everyone is so focused on whether or not we should judge the OP, and how sensitive we should be and so on. I'll say again, it's about protecting the patients, from an AdCom's perspective. If the AdCom thinks the student will display such reckless behavior in the future, his ass would be kicked to the curb. In this case, they saw something in him that made them believe it was a one-time mistake. So, lucky for him, he will have the opportunity to prove that their leniency was not a mistake.

As for comparing my 16 yr-old self to OP. Well, I was not very responsible at 20 either (I'm pushing 30.) I would be more suspicious of applicants who drank and drove during their adolescence. If young adults can't maintain responsible behavior, then they should spend several years learning to do so before they apply.

On a side note, I wouldn't 22 year old who drinks and drives more "law-abiding" than a 16 year old who drinks and drives. The 16 year old is stupid, but the 22 year old seriously should've known better.

Edit: Just saw the "jerk off" line you edited in. Guess I made a mistake assuming you were actually trying to have a discussion here. I have no idea what the last question means.
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Last question means that a 16 year old new driver is already very high risk sober. You and anybody around you when you drove drunk at 16 is incredibly lucky.

You and sb are jerk offs in the sense that you seem giddy at punishing others for something that you yourselves are probably guilty of but didn't get caught for (in your case- definitely guilty of). Honestly people like you disgust me- so f'in eager to judge others on a different yardstick than yourself. But feel high and mighty bro. Luckily for OP more intelligent and introspective people end up as MD adcoms (excluding Goro as a DO adcom).

I mean come on- can you not imagine another life where your 16 year old self would still be in prison at (whatever age you are now) for manslaughter from driving drunk? No- this isn't an excuse for drunk drivers- it's to realize that people do make mistakes (even you and sb) and one mistake should be forgiven with minimal bias. Two mistakes- exclusion.
 
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freemontie said:
Last question means that a 16 year old new driver is already very high risk. You and anybody around you when you drove drunk at 16 is incredibly lucky.

You and sb are jerk offs in the sense that you seem giddy at punishing others for something that you yourselves are probably guilty of but didn't get caught for (in your case- definitely guilty of). Honestly people like you disgust me- so f'in eager to judge others on a different yardstick than yourself. But feel high and mighty bro. Luckily for OP more intelligent and introspective people end up as MD adcoms (excluding Goro as a DO adcom).
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You've failed to hear me thrice mentioning that I am not superior to the OP. Then again you apparently haven't heard anything either sb or I have said this entire thread. Weren't you the one who got probation for ranting about "tiger moms" to LizzyM? Way to reintroduce yourself to SDN. I wouldn't count on most MD AdCom members agreeing with you. You're free to ask them yourselves. DO AdCom's tend to be more forgiving of legal transgressions btw.

I'll say one last time: In my adolescence, with one parent in jail and the other a drug addict, I was reckless and irresponsible. I self-corrected my behavior by 17. I'll also say again that I am entirely uninterested in comparing my story to anyone else's.
 
ZedsDed said:
You've failed to hear me thrice mentioning that I am not superior to the OP. Then again you apparently haven't heard anything either sb or I have said this entire thread. Weren't you the one who got probation for ranting about "tiger moms" to LizzyM? Way to reintroduce yourself to SDN. I wouldn't count on most MD AdCom members agreeing with you. You're free to ask them yourselves. DO AdCom's tend to be more forgiving of legal transgressions btw.

I'll say one last time. In my adolescence, with one parent in jail and the other a drug addict, I was reckless and irresponsible. I'll also say again that I am entirely uninterested in comparing my story to anyone else's.
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Thank god you didn't kill anyone bro. Feel good? Everyone else who got a driving charge is a POS but you, right?

And I already told you- I'm squeaky clean except for a single parking ticket. Literally just one.
 
freemontie said:
Thank god you didn't kill anyone bro. Feel good? Everyone else who got a driving charge is a POS but you, right?

And I already told you- I'm squeaky clean except for a single parking ticket. Literally just one.
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Did I accuse of you being otherwise?? I'll say for a fourth time, I am not judging the OP. I'll also say again that I knew better by the time I applied for med school. Is there a reason you're refusing to listen?
 
ZedsDed said:
Did I accuse of you being otherwise?? I'll say for a fourth time, I am not judging the OP. Is there a reason you're refusing to listen?
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Do I really have to re-quote you? You clearly made the argument that one infraction should be an absolute deterrent to medical school admission.
 
freemontie said:
Do I really have to re-quote you? You clearly made the argument that one infraction should be an absolute deterrent to medical school admission.
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I can't tell if you're trolling me. I said that a twenty-something (especially one who is about to matriculate into med school) should have known better, and will be judged more harshly as a result. Either way I don't think we're going to accomplish anything by furthering this discussion.
 
ZedsDed said:
I can't tell if you're trolling me. I said that a twenty-something (especially one who is about to matriculate into med school) should have known better, and will be judged more harshly as a result. Either way I don't think we're going to accomplish anything by furthering this discussion.
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My point is you shouldn't feel so haughty as that statement implies given your own admission. Or do you think an illegal 16 year old drinker who illegally drives drunk for the first time like yourself is better than a legal age drinker who drives drunk for the first time? Your answer to that might clear up some confusion.

Or perhaps you think you don't deserve any consideration in medical school admissions yourself?
 
freemontie said:
My point is you shouldn't feel so haughty as that statement implies given your own admission. Or do you think an illegal 16 year old drinker who illegally drives drunk for the first time like yourself is better than a legal age drinker who drives drunk for the first time? Your answer to that might clear up some confusion.

Or perhaps you think you don't deserve any consideration in medical school admissions yourself?
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Nope. You're not going to get me to say it a fifth time.

As for the hypothetical, yes I would be harder on a person in their twenties, who is about to be a medical student, than a sophomore in high school.
 
ZedsDed said:
Nope. You're not going to get me to say it a fifth time.

As for the hypothetical, yes I would be harder on a person in their twenties, who is about to be a medical student, than a sophomore in high school.
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I'll say one last time: In my adolescence, with one parent in jail and the other a drug addict, I was reckless and irresponsible. I self-corrected my behavior by 17. I'll also say again that I am entirely uninterested in comparing my story to anyone else's.
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Bro- tell me more about your exceptional sob story to excuse your own criminal behavior while not excusing anyone else's.

I'm an asian applicant with incredible AA bias yet I'm first-gen and grew up in a ghetto in Miami without drinking underage and driving drunk like you. If I was like you (I'm not) I would be judging you (I'm not). My point is that you are a fool with no perspective. Yet you and sb feel comfortable judging OP. Mind=boggled.
 
freemontie said:
Bro- tell me more about your exceptional sob story to excuse your own criminal behavior while not excusing anyone else's.

I'm an asian applicant with incredible AA bias yet I'm first-gen and grew up in a ghetto in Miami without drinking underage and driving drunk like you. If I was like you (I'm not) I would be judging you (I'm not). My point is that you are a fool with no perspective. Yet you and sb feel comfortable judging OP. Mind=boggled.
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It's exhausting trying to inject logic into this conversation. Have a good night.
 
freemontie said:
My point is you shouldn't feel so haughty as that statement implies given your own admission. Or do you think an illegal 16 year old drinker who illegally drives drunk for the first time like yourself is better than a legal age drinker who drives drunk for the first time? Your answer to that might clear up some confusion.

Or perhaps you think you don't deserve any consideration in medical school admissions yourself?
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I see a big difference in maturity between 16 year olds and college Juniors/ Seniors.. A 16 year old that received a DUI, to me, seems more like the product of an immature mistake that he or she can outgrow. Kids do stupid things and at 16, it can be argued that they just still had some growing up to do. A soon to be college grad on the other hand should be old enough to know better. I think that a persons actions in the last couple years of college are much more representative of their "final" personality than their actions when they are in high school.

So, yeah, I would say in the context of med school admissions ADCOMS probably would give greater weight to a DUI when you're 21 than one when you're 16. Just like how only you're EC's during college are generally looked at. College is a time where people develop into who they will be as an adult.
 
partypantss said:
I see a big difference in maturity between 16 year olds and college Juniors/ Seniors.. A 16 year old that received a DUI, to me, seems more like the product of an immature mistake that he or she can outgrow. Kids do stupid things and at 16, it can be argued that they just still had some growing up to do. A soon to be college grad on the other hand should be old enough to know better. I think that a persons actions in the last couple years of college are much more representative of their "final" personality than their actions when they are in high school.

So, yeah, I would say in the context of med school admissions ADCOMS probably would give greater weight to a DUI when your 21 than one when your 16. Just like how only your EC's during college are generally looked at. College is a time where people develop into who they will be as an adult.
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I respect why you would think that. But the fact of the matter is (and ask any psychologist) your determination to pick right from wrong is pretty much solidified by 14-15 at the latest. The idea of excusing earlier behaviors is based largely on excusing first infractions. But if the first time someone drinks is at the legal age (21) then that could very well be the age of their first infraction. That's why I was so hard on that poster. It's so very easy for straight and narrow kids to refrain from drinking until legally allowed to and then make their "mistake" at an age that some deem unforgivable.
 
doctorgtx said:
I know...I will never repeat it ever and always advice anyone I come in contact with against it also
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Thanks for sharing @doctorgtx and giving us a real example of this situation. Premeds sure do like to pretend to know how adcoms work when they have no idea - esp on SDN 😛. I do know of 3 cases of people continuing in medicine after receiving DUIs as a premed or med student.

I hope everyone realizes that ALL traffic infractions can lead to accidents/collisions which cause injury/death. I remember getting my 1st speeding ticket as a 16yo and the judge giving me a lecture about the consequences and how I could've killed someone, etc. Distracted driving (#1), speeding, and drunk driving are the top reasons for car accidents in America. You're all guilty of making choices that could've harmed others :poke:
 
skinofteeth said:
Sidenote: Is anyone else watching this episode of Fresh Prince about drinking and driving right now on nick-at-nite, or is it just me? :corny:

Ok, back to studying...
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No, but I started streaming the drunk driving episode of Saved by the Bell after seeing this thread while concurrently looking at Orgo 2 notes. lol
 
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@freemontie Maybe thats why teens who commit murder are tried as adults and some people here think that every DUI convict = Murderer, so in that case Zedsded should never become a physician since he is also a "potential murderer" as @Goro likes to put it lol. The fact of the matter is adcoms know that every DUI case is different. If OPs alcohol level was over o.2 or even 0.15 then my perspective would be very different. As I said, 0.081% alcohol has similar affect on judgement as 24 hrs of sleep deprivation. Here is one of the reference : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/ So OP was not so overly intoxicated that he would run over pedestrians or cause accidents, he just made an illegal left when the cop was watching him. Also, people should stop talking about adcom perspectives, they deal with such issues a lot more than people here like to think and in this case they already made a logical decision.
 
cooldriver said:
@freemontie Maybe thats why teens who commit murder are tried as adults and some people here think that every DUI convict = Murderer, so in that case Zedsded should never become a physician since he is also a "potential murderer" as @Goro likes to put it lol. The fact of the matter is adcoms know that every DUI case is different. If OPs alcohol level was over o.2 or even 0.15 then my perspective would be very different. As I said, 0.08% alcohol has similar affect on judgement as 24 hrs of sleep deprivation. Here is one of the reference : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/ So OP was not so overly intoxicated that he would run over pedestrians or cause accidents, he just made a illegal left when the cop was watching him. Also, people should stop talking about adcom perspectives, they deal with such issues a lot more than people here like to think and in this case they already made a logical decision.
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There will always be people like @sb247 or @Goro or @ZedsDed or whoever (honestly I didn't read the whole thread) who get a kick out of being "better" than their fellow man and this is an easy way to do so. I honestly believe that introspection in this regard is highly correlated to general intelligence and thus academic-institution MDs in allopathic admission committees will react appropriately.

I mean - come on- is anybody surprised that Goro is a DO adcom? Just look at what this guy posts.
 
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C02232934 said:
Oh boy, the mods are going to have a field day with certain users in this thread in the morning.
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Why? Because someone disagreed with an almighty adcom? I (hope) the barrier to free speech is higher than that - even on SDN.
 
I
freemontie said:
I respect why you would think that. But the fact of the matter is (and ask any psychologist) your determination to pick right from wrong is pretty much solidified by 14-15 at the latest. The idea of excusing earlier behaviors is based largely on excusing first infractions. But if the first time someone drinks is at the legal age (21) then that could very well be the age of their first infraction. That's why I was so hard on that poster. It's so very easy for straight and narrow kids to refrain from drinking until legally allowed to and then make their "mistake" at an age that some deem unforgivable.
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I don't know about that, man. Sure, a 16 year old can tell right from wrong and they obviously know driving drunk is wrong. However a 16 year olds ability to properly judge risks is not nearly as developed as a 25 year old.
 
DrDarce said:
I

I don't know about that, man. Sure, a 16 year old can tell right from wrong and they obviously know driving drunk is wrong. However a 16 year olds ability to properly judge risks is not nearly as developed as a 25 year old.
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It's not about judging risks. In actuality the risk of getting caught drunk driving is farily low. If it was high nobody would ever try it.

What I'm saying is that the judged risk is low. And that's independent of the age of the judge. Understand?
 
@freemontie "Weren't you the one who got probation for ranting about "tiger moms" to LizzyM? Way to reintroduce yourself to SDN" . What happened here, did you really get probation for expressing your views on studentdoctor , if yes then I am deleting my account from this site.
 
I think regardless of whether or not OP learned from his plight, he did the right thing in immediately informing his schools, as many accepted students in this situation fail to do. I think that is what can be the positivity taken from the post, personal, points aside, as I have seen posts to the like of "Argghhhh accepted and just got a DUI now what??" Accepted students in this situation now have a real life reference to handle this legal situation.

My intention is not to be involved in discussions involving my morals, so please, leave me out, that is just a point of positivity I see in having this post.
 
cooldriver said:
@freemontie "Weren't you the one who got probation for ranting about "tiger moms" to LizzyM? Way to reintroduce yourself to SDN" . What happened here, did you really get probation for expressing your views on studentdoctor , if yes then I am deleting my account from this site.
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Pretty much bro. And don't be surprised if that happens again. That said please don't delete yourself on my account because SDN won't change. Actually my dad was among the first SDN pioneers. He knew the DO family practice guy who started this website. I think wingulascapula or whatever shes called knows it - things change quickly in the online community. Call yourself an adcom and your d will be sucked throughly- even if its for a DO school nobody would ever want to go to like Goro's.

Edit: As for @LizzyM - anyone can look up what she said about Asians. But again, the allo-adcom barrier keeps her protected here. I asked her repeatedly to clarify via PM but she never responded. Her M.O.: asian MCAT-discrimination is highly valid. Ask her yourself how she views Asian applicants and let me know what PC-BS she says now. To this day I'm trying to figure out what school she represents so we can save Asian applicants app fees.
 
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@freemontie Just read that thread...dude that was undoubtedly a racist comment by LizzyM, and I see Goro supporting her lol....now I understand where he is coming from.... I am an asian and I totally find that comment offensive and unacceptable, it should be her who should have gotten banned but I don't want to deviate from the topic in hand so I wont say much
 
cooldriver said:
@freemontie Just read that thread...dude that was undoubtedly a racist comment by LizzyM, and I see Goro supporting her lol....now I understand where he is coming from.... I am an asian and I totally find that comment offensive and unacceptable, it should be her who should have gotten banned but I don't want to deviate from the topic in hand so I wont say much
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You are a good student because your mother is a dragon. If you get a good MCAT it's because of the same reason. Your mother is a f'ing dragon.

I tell you bro- there are so many white apologists here. The fact that they banned me and not @LizzyM is a disgrace. Thank you for publicly pointing this out. I love white people - I have nothing against white people - but treat me like you do your brethren, Lizzy.
 
sb247 said:
That went off the rails fast. No I have never driven drunk...ever. My consumption levels would never get me to that BAC when travelling. I will continue to judge drunk drivers. Deal with it.
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"My consumption levels would never get me to that BAC when travelling." I smell a DUI on you already with that attitude lol
 
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sb247 said:
You weren't unlucky, you were a drunk driver risking the lives of everyone on your path. You were amazingly lucky...and I don't believe you are sorry. I think you are sorry you got caught.
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had to post. do you think anyone gives a flying **** if you believe they're sorry or not... almost every post i read of yours is pessimistic.
 
For the sake of discussion at least you guys should pretend that you don't drink and drive. I don't know how you define small amount and how you magically just know that your BAC level is under limit and decide to travel but soon you will run out of luck too and then you will be starting a similar thread
sb247 said:
I just drink a very small amount. Smell what you wish
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cooldriver said:
For the sake of discussion at least you guys should pretend that you don't drink and drive. I don't know how you define small amount and how you magically just know that your BAC level is under limit and decide to travel but soon you will run out of luck too and then you will be starting a similar thread
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I never even have 2. And I'm always around for quite a number of hours if I have the one...sober driving is not difficult to accomplish.
 
sb247 said:
I never even have 2. And I'm always around for quite a number of hours if I have the one...sober driving is not difficult to accomplish.
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its ok man...m not judging you..just pointing out that your argument is getting weaker and weaker
 
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