Duty hours, malignant Chief

[premed8888]

All’s I can say is that as a senior once I signed out to the night team, my attendings gave no craps that I wasn’t at the hospital if they wanted to check in on the status of a patient. Saying I am off and not responding to a call was not acceptable. You can keep on doing it and follow the letter of ACGME, but let me know how much operative autonomy and experience you get when you aren’t willing to even answer calls when you are “off” for the night.

I am not saying any of this to “be malignant” or “I suffered, so you suffer.” I only ask my juniors to do things that I am willing and have done myself. This is just global patient care.

Thanks, my attendings give me more autonomy than others have experienced in my year because they know I’m good. It’s just this tool “Chief”.

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[VincentAdultman]

Just goes to show you everyone on SDN is AOA, has 275 Step One, and is the youngest chief of Cardiothoracic surgery on the Eastern seaboard.

 

[Apollyon]

Leave surgery and go do EM

Now THAT is lame. But, thanks for thinking so much of us!

 

[Jolie South]

Thanks, my attendings give me more autonomy than others have experienced in my year because they know I’m good. It’s just this tool “Chief”.

Which may be acceptable as a junior but as a senior they will expect ownership.

 

[LucidSplash]

You’re going to find a different world at some point, even if it isn’t as a chief. But I’m done watching you ignore all the well-meaning advice. I’m not sure what your goal even was posting here.

But if I may ask a personal favor, please let me know when you are looking for a job. I want to make sure you don’t end up as one of my partners.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I wouldn’t get fired without large lawsuit winnings against multiple ppl...

Ok, intern.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I’m not sure what your goal even was posting here.

Classic SDN. Post something with the pretense of “seeking opinions” when you really just want validation/pats on the back/high fives for being so totally awesome. Then when people with vastly more knowledge and life experience start pointing out where actually you may have messed up get defensive and insist you were right all along.

 

[Merely]

Now THAT is lame. But, thanks for thinking so much of us!

He wants shift work lol that’s his entire problem..surgery is a serious commitment to your patients completely unlike EM so it seems like a better fit for him

 

[VincentAdultman]

Oh boy.....

 

[Apollyon]

He wants shift work lol that’s his entire problem..surgery is a serious commitment to your patients completely unlike EM so it seems like a better fit for him

Dude, whatever. Your statement that surgery "is a serious commitment to your patients completely unlike EM" tells me all I need to know.

FWIW, when I was a resident, Duke went to shifts for Gen surg residents. I rarely use emojis, but,

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Dude, whatever. Your statement that surgery "is a serious commitment to your patients completely unlike EM" tells me all I need to know.

FWIW, when I was a resident, Duke went to shifts for Gen surg residents. I rarely use emojis, but,

That guy is a big ole tool, just ignore him.

 

[Lawpy]

Classic SDN. Post something with the pretense of “seeking opinions” when you really just want validation/pats on the back/high fives for being so totally awesome. Then when people with vastly more knowledge and life experience start pointing out where actually you may have messed up get defensive and insist you were right all along.

Sad to see it happening in the Surgery forums

 

[Jolie South]

You’re going to find a different world at some point, even if it isn’t as a chief. But I’m done watching you ignore all the well-meaning advice. I’m not sure what your goal even was posting here.

But if I may ask a personal favor, please let me know when you are looking for a job. I want to make sure you don’t end up as one of my partners.

 

[LucidSplash]

Girl, I'm assuming this was meant for the OP.

 

[Jolie South]

Girl, I'm assuming this was meant for the OP.

But of course.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I am currently in a subspecialty integrated surgical program and I have a topic I wanted to bring up to see if anybody could weigh in on it. Our chief resident is about to graduate thankfully but she really is a piece of work. There have been multiple occasions where she tried to really start a fight with me and even publicly call me out for having my phone on silent when I am not on duty. She called me multiple times over time wanting information on a patient or she was trying to have me see a patient when I was not yet on duty for the day. I only keep my phone on silent when I am not on call and not on duty. After I sign out to the night team, My phone goes on silent PERIOD. She believes it is my duty to keep the phone on at all times and I don’t care if she is the chief resident, I have bit back hard each time and told her I simply won’t do that...then I don’t. It happened again today so I am partially venting but also asking fOr opinions. Today she tried to call me before my duty hours started and wanted me to see a patient to ensure that the night team had examined the patient properly and in sure that there wasn’t a worse or more acute issue at hand. Mind you, she lives down the street and less than five minutes from the hospital and could’ve easily come in and did her chief duties herself. She called me entitled because I keep my phone on silent but it appears that she is the entitled one thinking that everyone will drop what they are doing at any time and tend to her stupid self.

There’s not much to add here that hasn’t already been said but I wanted to point out that I am a surgical attending in a lifestyle friendly specialty with generally low risk patients.

Despite that my partners and I all have the expectation that even when we’re not on call, we answer our phones. Most of us are respectful and don’t call unless there’s a real need. Its not abused.

However it’s become an issue with one of the partners Who almost never answers her phone on the weekends and generally gives lame excuses like, “oh my husband had my phone“ or “I went out and forgot it, leaving at home“. We all believe she’s actually trying to get out of offering information to help take care of her patients which is not respected regardless of what your field of specialty is.

ACGME doesn’t apply in the real world and patients don’t care when your “duty hours“ start or finish.

 

[akwho]

Classic SDN. Post something with the pretense of “seeking opinions” when you really just want validation/pats on the back/high fives for being so totally awesome. Then when people with vastly more knowledge and life experience start pointing out where actually you may have messed up get defensive and insist you were right all along.

My favorite part of this is not a single surgeon is on his side on this dispute and we've only heard his side of the story. Imagine if his chief could tell her side of the story. He would get lit up.

It takes real self confidence to listen thoughtfully to well-meaning criticism and adjust ones behavior. Unfortunately I'm afraid OP is more about bravado and less about what's appropriate collegial behavior and best for the patient.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

My favorite part of this is not a single surgeon is on his side on this dispute and we've only heard his side of the story. Imagine if his chief could tell her side of the story. He would get lit up.

It takes real self confidence to listen thoughtfully to well-meaning criticism and adjust ones behavior. Unfortunately I'm afraid OP is more about bravado and less about what's appropriate collegial behavior and best for the patient.

Or just trying to troll...

 

[Circ Arrest]

Dude, here is the issue. And it’s an easy and clear one. You have an attitude problem. Period. You have mismanaged expectations. Period.

You know what is more important than being competent, or smart, or talented, etc. etc. etc.? Being a team player. You know what that means? When you’re off, you might have to field some phone calls. Deal with it. The fact that you put your phone on silent and means you are making yourself unreachable and cannot be bothered to provide assistance at even the slightest inconvenience to yourself. That is the mark of a bad team player. You’re an intern. Sorry bud, but you have no idea what your superiors say about you behind closed doors. Like it or not, your chief/senior residents, attendings and program director all talk about you. That is how problems get dealt with. In our program, the PD makes the chief manage the juniors. That’s probably why your chief is a hard ass.

When you are an attending and you are not on call and a resident who is in house, doing your scut work for you, calls you to clarify about a patient that you operated on because you were the only surgeon in the OR, are you going to chew them out because you are “off”? I hope not. Guess what, sometimes patient care cuts into your personal time. Learn to deal with it because in 5 years, you won’t have the ACGME to hide behind. And trust me, being a surgeon without the respect of your peers is one that doesn’t last very long.

 

[VincentAdultman]

There’s not much to add here that hasn’t already been said but I wanted to point out that I am a surgical attending in a lifestyle friendly specialty with generally low risk patients.

Despite that my partners and I all have the expectation that even when we’re not on call, we answer our phones. Most of us are respectful and don’t call unless there’s a real need. Its not abused.

However it’s become an issue with one of the partners Who almost never answers her phone on the weekends and generally gives lame excuses like, “oh my husband had my phone“ or “I went out and forgot it, leaving at home“. We all believe she’s actually trying to get out of offering information to help take care of her patients which is not respected regardless of what your field of specialty is.

ACGME doesn’t apply in the real world and patients don’t care when your “duty hours“ start or finish.

I’m not on call this weekend but I have two postops admitted under me who are not exactly the picture of health. Better believe my phone is on and with me or close by at all times.

The talk about being “on duty” and using the ACGME as a shield is a huge red flag that’s going to manifest sooner or later.

 

[ACSurgeon]

The OP is either a troll or someone who won’t be successful.

If you’re not trolling: they won’t fire you because you turn your phone to silent. We all make preventable errors with some frequency. There is no defined “acceptable” error rate. It’s arbitrary. Those that are disliked get their wrongdoing amplified and get in hot water. If you give your seniors and attendings a reason to not like you, a paper trail can easily be developed and you’ll get your “due diligence” and be let go. If somehow you make it to the end, your future employer will call to ask about you. That won’t end well for you either. They won’t fire you for reasons that’ll give you legal ground. They’ll fire you for reasons that not even the best lawyer can help you with.

Otherwise, a lot of great points above if you’re at all inclined to listen .

 

[LucidSplash]

Pretty sure the OP is not a troll based on some googling. Appears just to be a PGY-2/rising PGY-3 tool. All the good advice that can be had has been given. Recommend we all just leave OP to their own devices.

 

[premed8888]

You all are hilarious....assuming that I’m not getting great reviews and just saying it...when I’m on duty, whether it be on call or during regular hours, I go all in. The main issue I’m having is the entitlement of this chief. I have many times talked to colleagues outside of hours when the would text etc...much just text. I keep my phone on silent as not to disturb my significant other as well. When this chief calls, I have called her back...but I don’t put up with attitude that I shouldn’t have had it on silent and that I should have picked up first ring. She’s in a tizzy over nothing...especially if I called back. Be happy I called back because I didn’t have to....I will continue to keep my phone on silent. Period.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

You all are hilarious....assuming that I’m not getting great reviews and just saying it...when I’m on duty, whether it be on call or during regular hours, I go all in. The main issue I’m having is the entitlement of this chief. I have many times talked to colleagues outside of hours when the would text etc...much just text. I keep my phone on silent as not to disturb my significant other as well. When this chief calls, I have called her back...but I don’t put up with attitude that I shouldn’t have had it on silent and that I should have picked up first ring. She’s in a tizzy over nothing...especially if I called back. Be happy I called back because I didn’t have to....I will continue to keep my phone on silent. Period.

When you have a bunch of attendings on here saying your actions are wrong, particularly when we only hear your side of it, then maybe it's time for a bit of self reflection. When you are an attending, particularly if you have partners, are you going to just keep your phone/pager on silent because you aren't on call? Are you going to just keep it on silent so your SO isn't bothered by your job? You act like this in training and it will continue over to becoming an attending. Your partners will not want to deal with you. You may have consulting physicians stop sending you patients because you don't answer your phone since you aren't on call.

Assuming you aren't trolling here, you have a chance while you are early in training to have a reset on your thoughts. Will you take that opportunity?

 

[premed8888]

When you have a bunch of attendings on here saying your actions are wrong, particularly when we only hear your side of it, then maybe it's time for a bit of self reflection. When you are an attending, particularly if you have partners, are you going to just keep your phone/pager on silent because you aren't on call? Are you going to just keep it on silent so your SO isn't bothered by your job? You act like this in training and it will continue over to becoming an attending. Your partners will not want to deal with you. You may have consulting physicians stop sending you patients because you don't answer your phone since you aren't on call.

Assuming you aren't trolling here, you have a chance while you are early in training to have a reset on your thoughts. Will you take that opportunity?

When there is an indication to keep my phone on all the time I will do it. Right now I’m pretty much on 24 seven call and my phone is on at all times. I’m a resident and for now I get to follow the rules. When I am in attending I have no problem keeping my phone on as much as needed. But this chief has no right to treat me like that just because I don’t do what she wants when I’m following rules.

 

[premed8888]

This is more about the Chief than anything. Only...7 days...then as above...bye Felicia.

 

[deleted480308]

This is more about the Chief than anything. Only...7 days...then as above...bye Felicia.

You believe that under next year’s chief your patients will evaporate when you go off shift?

 

[HighPriest]

What’s great about threads like this is the shifting target of what the exact problem actually is.

“What do you guys think of x”
“Well, we think maybe you’re wrong.”
“Well, you don’t know what you’re talking about, because you don’t know X*”
“Wait...where did that asterisk come from?”

At first the problem was that the chief would call at any time after duty hours, and that was BS. OP plays hard and he works hard, but nary the two shall meet.

Now it’s starting to get in to the range of his chief calling him at 0300 just because she wants to hear his voice, and she’s upset he’s not wearing the scrubs she bought him at that moment.

Look, if it’s truly harassment: this isn’t happening to any of the other residents, and you’re being called for things that aren’t even helpful for your patients, then yes Felicia is a $&@tch and it’ll be great when she’s gone.

Otherwise, I don’t think you’ll get the affirmation you’re looking for here. Maybe try the dental forums. I got a phone call from the ER at my grandmother’s funeral when I was out of state. I didn’t write a thread about it. I also didn’t threaten to sue the ER staff.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

What’s great about threads like this is the shifting target of what the exact problem actually is.

“What do you guys think of x”
“Well, we think maybe you’re wrong.”
“Well, you don’t know what you’re talking about, because you don’t know X*”
“Wait...where did that asterisk come from?”

At first the problem was that the chief would call at any time after duty hours, and that was BS. OP plays hard and he works hard, but nary the two shall meet.

Now it’s starting to get in to the range of his chief calling him at 0300 just because she wants to hear his voice, and she’s upset he’s not wearing the scrubs she bought him at that moment.

Look, if it’s truly harassment: this isn’t happening to any of the other residents, and you’re being called for things that aren’t even helpful for your patients, then yes Felicia is a $&@tch and it’ll be great when she’s gone.

Otherwise, I don’t think you’ll get the affirmation you’re looking for here. Maybe try the dental forums. I got a phone call from the ER at my grandmother’s funeral when I was out of state. I didn’t write a thread about it. I also didn’t threaten to sue the ER staff.

Yeah, but this guy is special!

 

[HighPriest]

“My boss is kind of a jerk. He seems really controlling and he’s started to ask me to do things I don’t feel comfortable with.”

“Well, sometimes bosses are jerks. Just keep your head down and if it’s a serious problem talk to HR.”

“What!?! That’s an insane suggestion when you’re working for ADOLF HITLER! You guys are all nazis”

Huh. Yeah, don’t know why I assumed you weren’t working for Hitler. Probably should have elaborated on your first post.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I think this thread has outlived its usefulness. If one page of well-intentioned advice isn't enough to change your mind, I don't see much point in letting the discussion continue for multiple additional pages.