E.M.T. certification

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proclus

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How many of you became certified E.M.T.'s prior to applying to medical school?

I'm interested particularly in those of you who did so specifically in order to augment your EC's for med school apps & gain patient exposure, although obviously I'd love to here from those of you who had careers in paramedicine before going the MD route.

How much of an asset do you feel the E.M.T. experience was on your app and in interviews?

Looking forward to hearing from everyone. 🙂
 
I had it before deciding to apply to medical school. I was never asked about it once in interviews, so I don't know how strong it was to be honest. It's a lot of time to get the cert and do anything worthwhile with it, the kind of time commitment that if pointed at the MCAT could cause more tangible improvements in your app (IMO). Don't just do it to fill an EC block. It's not worth it. Do it if you are interested in performing or working as an EMT.
 
Unless you actually work as an EMT, simply having the certification is not going to do much to boost your app. Practicing prehospital medicine in the classroom ain't like practicing it in the field. 😉
 
Unless you actually work as an EMT, simply having the certification is not going to do much to boost your app. Practicing prehospital medicine in the classroom ain't like practicing it in the field. 😉

Assuming I get the certification, I intend to use it to gain access to more interesting extra-curricular volunteer experiences @ emergency departments, local firehouse, etc.

Also because I'm just plain interested in emergency medicine & it seems logical that it would behoove any potential physician to have a better understanding of paramedicine and how it is practiced.

I don't want to end up as the dermatologist who hides under his table when someone is seizing at a restaurant and everyone's calling for a doctor. 😉

Thoughts?
 
Thoughts?

Most states'/counties' scope of practice is such that as an EMT-B you will be able to perform CPR/choking protocols that you learn in a 4-hr Red Cross class, plus you can assist or administer oxygen, activated charcoal, aspirin, SL nitro, inhalers, anti-anaphylactics, and one or two others. There isn't a lot of life saving out there, even if you are in the ED. What you will do is drive around a lot and pick up a lot of oldsters and put them back in their La-Z-Boys. EMT-B isn't a path to excitement (for the most part; there are exceptions.)
 
For your purposes I would suggest LNA (or CNA)...

I think it is more applicable and can be completed in the same, or shorter of a time period. Also a large component of that training involves working with patients opposed to the EMT-B may be mostly book and dummy work.

I thought it was a great experience. Check it out see if it is for you. Also, talk to the folks who run these extracuriculars, sometimes they have their very own training programs.

Good luck.
 
As Pons said, as an EMT-B, you won't be running very many life saving calls; most of the time you will be responding to non-emergent emergencies, and when something good does pop up, people with more advanced training will be on scene telling you what to do. You'll still be making a difference and helping people - just don't expect to make the front page on tomorrow's newspaper.

That being said, you will be exposed to emergency situations and will gain insight into how pre-hospital medicine works; the general consensus seems to be that this would probably be more beneficial in terms of personal development, as opposed to something strong to put on your application though.

Ultimately, if it's something you REALLY want to do, and you have some extra time during one semester when you could take the EMT-B course, then do it. As long as you have CPR training, most rescue squads will let you join them for a ride-along. Why not hang out with them for a day or two and see what you think?
 
Many years ago I had a bad experience of training as an EMT for that purpose. I tried hard to stay low and not draw attention. Then on one ED rotation the EMT-P tech that I was shaddowing found out that I was pre-med and attempted to sabotage me. I won't go into details, but it was an attempt at blatant sabotage that was my first real taste of this kind of jealousy.

I know this was a single incident, but it really gave me a bad taste for the program. I never ended up using the EMT certification.
 
I have talked to a few paramedics who went to medical school, who said they got asked about their experiences during their interviews.

But paramedics are not EMT's, and more importantly, they didn't become paramedics to augment their EC's, but because that was their career choice prior to deciding to go to medical school.

I teach EMT classes every now and then, and I can tell you first hand you won't learn anything as an EMT that you can't learn with a first aid book and a basic A&P study guide. So do it because you love it, not because you think it will look good on an app or it will help you with med school knowledge... it won't.

A
 
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How many of you became certified E.M.T.'s prior to applying to medical school?

I'm interested particularly in those of you who did so specifically in order to augment your EC's for med school apps & gain patient exposure, although obviously I'd love to here from those of you who had careers in paramedicine before going the MD route.

How much of an asset do you feel the E.M.T. experience was on your app and in interviews?

Looking forward to hearing from everyone. 🙂

I imagine you're looking to hear from those who have actually done it and been successfully accepted. I am not that person; I'm in your same boat, just a little further ahead. Won't stop me from yakking, though!

I considered both hospital volunteering and EMS as a means by which to get my clinical experience. After checking both out, I decided on EMS.

Pros of hospital volunteering:
  • Shorter startup curve; you can start interacting with patients, such as you can, immediately, instead of waiting for a 131-hour class plus exams.
  • Smaller time commitment; you come in as little or as much as you can, and you can use the extra free time to work on your grades or MCAT (which will matter more.)
  • More interaction in the hospital setting itself; exposure to physicians and nurses, networking opportunities, and the chance to be around Actual Hospitalized Sick People (tm) instead of scooping 300-pound guys off the floor.
  • No scooping 300-pound guys off the floor; self-explanatory!

Pros of EMS:
  • You will learn how to talk to patients as a provider vs. as a candy-striper; if you don't learn to do evals now, you'll have to learn it in medical school.
  • Standby shifts; great way to rack up a large number of hours quickly, and often a great opportunity to focus on your schoolwork.
  • Once you get your EMT-B card, you are a licensed medical professional; it has no worth to medical schools because it's such a basic credential, but, still, the cool points!
  • Exposure to some (very very very basic) medical training; given the level, if you can't breeze through EMT class, I really don't see any chance you're going to be successful in medicine.
  • In most jurisdictions, the training is free if you commit to volunteer; free stuff is awesome.
  • Fewer annoying pre-meds surrounding you!

Also, from what I've read, EMS providers who want to go into emergency medicine have a significant advantage when it comes time for residency interviews. Since emergency medicine is currently my first choice (obviously you can't really know for sure until third or fourth year), the choice was easy.

Be aware that EMS will not replace shadowing, and you'll need to do that anyway, because, in the words of my postbacc program adviser, "EMS is not medicine." But it's a pretty cool thing unto itself. I love it because I can a) actually make a difference to the patient (even if it's picking 'em up off the floor) and b) I can run actual calls and be there as part of the care team, not as an observer. That's important to me. It may not be important to you.

I'll close by echoing the advice I've read, and heard, frequently: Don't do EMS to get your clinical hours in, or just to impress the adcoms. Do EMS because you want to do EMS, and be happy that it'll check off your clinical experience and volunteering requirements. For me, the latter applied. Does it apply to you?
 
Solid first post, Dzerzhinsky. Welcome!

Thanks for your kind words, Pons, and congratulations on your recent promotion! Since much of the information in my post originated from SDN (I've been lurking for some time even prior to registering), feeding back the knowledge seemed an appropriate way to jump in.

(Obviously, also, I'm somewhat personally vested in the topic, as I'm counting on this to serve both the volunteering and the clinical experience. If it doesn't, I'm pretty screwed, so I'll be watching this thread and the related opinions with interest. Thanks, OP!)
 
If you're thinking of doing EMT class just for your app, forget it. Folks who go to EMTB class mainly in preparation for med school are a dime a dozen. If you don't get significant (and I mean SIGNIFICANT) experience actually using your EMT, don't bother doing the class.

I spent 15 years as a paramedic in a fairly busy system prior to going to med school. The experience was invaluable, the class was not. As an EMTB, your experience will be a direct result of what kind of system and job you work in. If you work as a cabulance driver (i.e. picking up drunks or wheelchair patients for transport), that is significantly different than working with a paramedic in a 911 only ambulance. Also, what you learn is directly influenced by your partner. Some paramedics teach, some don't. Some will let you do more than others. And it depends on your karma. Some folks are just trauma magnets, others core magnets, and still others are skunked on a regular basis and don't turn a wheel.

All that being said, if you get experience as an EMTB in a busy system and your partner allows you to do things, it can be very valuable learning to talk to patients, lay hands on patients, gather information, and put together a picture on a patient. These are skills which many students struggle with during their clinical years.

Now does EMS replace shadowing? Depends on your experience. I didn't shadow a single physician. Every interview for medical school remarked on how I had absolutely no need to shadow as that would not have enhanced my understanding of the medical field at all. But if you drive a wheelchair rig, then yes, I think you need to shadow. I found I had a significant leg up on my peers for ICU as I had lots of experience doing intubation, lines, cardiac arrests, handling tension pneumothorax patients, seizures, etc. Those things were bread and butter and didn't phase me at all. My fellow interns, however, were a tad overwhelmed by those problems for a while. Even now at the end of my intern year I find my comfort level is still far above theirs for most of those acute issues and procedures. Even the ICU attendings have remarked on it. So your postbac advisor saying "EMS isn't medicine" is crap. We all work a cardiac arrest the same way.

Which brings me to my last comment: be careful about listening to pre-med advisors (unless they are practicing physicians). I have found less than 10% give consistently good solid advice.
 
Even the ICU attendings have remarked on it. So your postbac advisor saying "EMS isn't medicine" is crap. We all work a cardiac arrest the same way.

Ugh. I was insufficiently becaveated, and I would like to apologize to all of you who have worked in an ALS capacity for that insufficient becaveating. Especially you, ShyRem, because I really enjoy your posts.

To be clear, the advice was not aimed at credentialed medics, and while it was an accurate quote I didn't put it in context. It was aimed at me, riding a BLS unit (albeit a 911-responding BLS unit that does generally see sick people--ran a very cool call with a medic unit just the other day, actually.) I have several good friends who are medics, and I respect the hell out of them. When you've performed that role, it's a totally different game.

However, sie was talking about me, running BLS calls and occasionally watching a medic. And in that capacity, as you said, I do need to do the shadowing, because occasionally watching a medic isn't gonna be enough.

Thanks for the reply and clarification.
 
I'm a bit late into this game. I did my recert last summer. I had been a member of the ski patrol (NSP) for ~18 years, and redid it to make sure I can say I'm 'certified' as an EMT. Did I do it for the cert, yes why? Because a friend of mine runs the ER at a nearby hospital, and if I need a job working there to get more clinical time, I can get it. Not sure if my ~18 years doing ski patrol will give me anything or not, but it's what I have right now, and it's better than volunteering in the ER. Pushing people to rooms and cleaning beds also doesn't count as clinical exposure, and I think when you've pushed into the 3500 hours mark, 100 more in an ER aren't going to make or break the volunteer situation. I have worked in biotech research for 12 years, and have tons of volunteer work, plus solid LORs, and will have in ~40 hrs of shadowing before I apply. If I don't get in this cycle, and I'm told it's because of those things, I can fall back on the EMT thing and get a job in the ER to boost it. For now, I'm running with it...
 
I'm just finishing up an EMT-B class right now and, for the most part, I've totally loved it. My teacher is a veteran Paramedic and we often have Firefighter-Paramedics come to work with us on scenarios.

I'm not really replying to the OP here, I'm more replying to anyone who comes across this thread because they're questioning whether or not they should go through EMT-B cert. I think that doing so solely to get an EC on your app is a bit ridiculous (and disingenuous). That said, I think taking the course is valuable in a whole slew of ways, particularly for anyone who doesn't have much of a background in or knowledge about the medical field.

I can't speak for classes all across the country, but my understanding is that the curriculum should be pretty standardized for the most part, and my class is a rapid crash course through Anatomy, trauma, pharmacology, disease, some psych stuff... it truly covers a lot of ground very quickly. Is it med school? Of course not. Is it a valuable learning experience? I've certainly thought so. And not just for the book stuff. The other two areas that an EMT-B class really helps in are a) TEAMWORK, which (if you believe the propaganda) is supposedly pretty important to be adept at if you want to be a part of the health care team, and b) for really sharpening quick-diagnostic and problem solving skills. These things are crucial to have in your arsenal when attending to an emergent situation. Are we sharpening these skills on real life patients in cardiac arrest? Again, of course not. But you've got to learn how to float before you can swim.

I really feel that my particular program is probably above average (I've heard some horror stories about some others). We're constantly getting drilled with creative scenarios which range from serious trauma to heroin overdose. And we're always being taught ALS stuff that's way out of an EMT-Bs scope of practice, so it goes beyond "just a basic first aid book and CPR class" like one of the previous posters said. I don't think those books demonstrate how to intubate a patient or explain the mechanisms behind diabetic ketoacidosis, for example.

I guess I'm posting all this because I don't want anyone to get the impression that an EMS class at a basic level is just some worthless garbage. Like I said, I've found it REALLY REALLY interesting and fun. When I volunteer at the hospital I know A LOT more than I would have otherwise. It also helps keep me motivated to push myself hard in my other classes by keeping things in perspective -- "I'm sitting here memorizing that the bond angle of a tetrahedral molecule with one loan pair of electrons is about 107 degrees because I want to practice MEDICINE!!!" -- the class is a very helpful reminder of that. Lastly, I'll be certified as an EMT-B when I'm done. This couldn't hurt. And I hope, if I have time to, I'll get some work as an ER Tech while or after I'm doing my post-bacc.

Should you do it for the Extra Curricular credit? Probably not. But if learning about how different kinds of emergencies are handled and getting a pretty good overview of what it's like out there in the field, you should totally go for it. I imagine that going into my post-bacc or first year of medical school already knowing how to take basic histories, do rapid trauma assessments, knowing the basic signs and and symptoms of congestive heart failure, etc. etc. etc. could only be advantageous to me. I'd say, if you have the money, time and interest, do it.
 
Should you do it for the Extra Curricular credit? Probably not. But if learning about how different kinds of emergencies are handled and getting a pretty good overview of what it's like out there in the field, you should totally go for it.

Ditto what was said above, with one amendment. Only take it if you plan on using the certification for work as an ER tech/paid ambulance company or a volunteer EMS position. I took an EMT-B course freshman year of college and I'm so glad I did. The class did cover a lot of basic first aid and CPR stuff, as was mentioned above, and it can all be learned on your own. That I won't argue with. But we learned how to do histories and physicals, take vitals, and make minor medical decisions, all in emergency settings, and those experiences were unique to the course (although, I'm sure you can do that on your own, too, if you're dedicated enough and have very understanding friends).

It was nice to be able to do some sort of medicine so early in the process of applying to med school, and it is much more than any of my other pre-med friends ever got to do, especially if you go on to use your certification for some sort of job for an ambulance company/ER or even to volunteer and use your skills.

I worked for a 911 only ambulance service for three years after getting certified and those were my favorite parts of college. Although I technically was only allowed to do basic stuff per my certification, I often worked with a paramedic, or would get a call that necessitated a medic, and thus was exposed to many real, emergent situations. I learned a lot from working ALS calls with these medics and it was a very worthwhile, educational, and super fun experience. I got really lucky because we had a very high call volume and all calls were 911 so we had no transfers and technically were only called to emergency situations. Unfortunately, "emergency" means different things to different people and so we had plenty of "I've fallen and I can't get up" stuff. Lots and lots of those. But we'd also get a fair amount of real calls that were actual emergencies. So all in all, working the crappy calls was worth getting a decent one a couple times a shift.

Right now my certification has run out and so I can't really do much of anything unless I re-take the class (I'm also past the renewal date 🙁), which I probably won't do. It's very frustrating to volunteer in the hospital and not be able to do much of anything, when just a few years ago I was doing CPR on patients and running real calls.

The conclusion I'm trying to get at is take the class if you're interested in using the certification in one way or another (volunteer EMS or paid ER tech/ambulance company) but don't if it's just something to list on your EC list. It's not worth the money or the time. Like was said before, you can learn all the stuff covered in the course just by reading a textbook and practicing taking vitals on your friends. But being certified and being able to work in a medical setting and DO THINGS is totally worth taking the class.
 
I took EMT-B and EMT-IA courses during the past few years. Not because I wanted to work in EMS, and not to have it on my app. I did it because I got college credit for it and it was interesting.

What I will say is that the OP's notion that having an EMT cert might open opportunities to unique EC's is absolutely true if you play your cards right.

I'll list what I've gotten out of my cert:

Clinical skills that most of my future classmates will be learning for the first time in med school (intubation, ECG interpretation, ACLS, an intro to physical exam and history taking).

Opportunities for volunteering: just this summer I parlayed my EMT-IA cert into a ticket aboard the USNS Mercy for a 2 month humanitarian mission. I got to get my hands dirty because the Navy docs felt more comfortable with my skills than most of their corpsmen. That trip was all any interviewers wanted to talk about during my interviews.

I also got a nice volunteer spot at a local clinic where I can perform a lot more patient care than most volunteers. Just today I was at the clinic and a fellow came in with a very high BGL. I was the only one around who could do an IV, even the clinic's paid medical assistants aren't allowed. The medical director came and asked me if I would be willing. It turned into me beig able to complete the entire encounter with the patient, including teaching him to inject his insulin and test his blood sugar at home. I wouldn't have been able to do anything with just a "first aid course" as some have said. The protocol would have been to have him transported to the ED instead.

Anyway, depending on how you use te cert, it can he a huge asset. Just don't go thinking that anyone will be impressed that you have it. You've got to use it to gain access to high quality EC opportunities.

SLC
 
There have been some great posts in this thread!

Really informative and helpful.

Thanks to all.
 
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I served as a medic in the Army. That included my EMT-B certification. I can honestly say that it never came up in the interviews. They did not care if it was active, and other than a bullet on my "resume," I did not really emphasize it.

They were, however, much more interested in my actual hands on work.

An EMT license is as difficult to obtain as a conceal carry permit in most states...that is, not too much work assuming you are not a felon. I just don't think you will impress with it, and the time could be used to take a graduate course that would catch the eye better.
 
I had my emt-b cetification, and I worked full-time for a year on both als and bls ambulances in southern California. Actually, I got my cert b/c I wanted to be a firefighter. However, after getting certified I liked the training so much I wanted to be a paramedic, which eventually blossomed into my desire to become a doctor. So that is my background for giving this advice...

Things to consider before pursuing an emt certification:

1) An emt certification alone will do nothing for your application. You have to put it to work, and get a paid position with an ambulance company, or an ED.

2) Look into what type of work is offered in your area. In San Diego, where I live, newly hired EMTs must work full-time for at least six months before they are allowed to request a part-time position. This means you will be unable to attend school full-time during your first six months. Also, EMT shifts are usually assigned based on seniority, and many new hires end up working overnight shifts in the beginning.

3) Look into the scope of practice in your area. Nationally, the scope of practice can often be very different than what is allowed in your city/state. For example, in San Diego, they don't allow EMTs to administer aspirin or activated charcoal, some companies don't stock AEDs on the BLS ambulances, and there are no EMT-I positions. All I'm saying is know what you are getting into, and see if it is what you are interested in.

4) An EMT certification will be unlikely to gain you a better volunteer position than an untrained volunteer. This has to do with liability issues. In fact, I'd venture to say most doctors/nurses are completely unaware of the training or scope of practices of EMTs.

5) When I interviewed for medical school, I wasn't asked at all about my EMT experience. I was however, asked at every interview about my work in the hospital where I've been employed for ~5 years.

6) Along the same lines as #5, hospital experience >>>>>> emt field experience, in the eyes of adcoms.

7) If you do decide to get your EMT, sometimes courses are offered at an accelerated pace during the summer. If you have the time, that is a great way to do it.

8) EMT work is not as sexy as it seems on tv. In most BLS work, the majority of your patients will be geriatric transports between the hospital and the nursing home. Most calls you go on won't require any medical intervention on your part. Finally, the pay sucks.

Benefits of EMT experience:

1) Great exposure to patients, with lots of opportunity to see how different medical conditions present in patients (emphasema, CHF, neuropathy, stroke, heart attack, etc...).

2) Having an EMT cert is probably the minimum education required to get a decent paid position in a hospital.

3) Getting paid for you clinical experience is better than volunteer work, based on $$ and what you are allowed to do in the hospital. This will allow you to pursue other volunteer activities that you might find more rewarding. If you have paid clinical experience, you can volunteer in an area outside of healthcare.

4) You will get to see many different healthcare settings, including skilled nursing facilities, hospitals, private practices, nuclear med/radiology centers, hospice, and board & cares.

5) It is a good way to test if you like being around sick people, geriatrics, and other healthcare workers.

Good luck
 
I currently work as a FireFighter/EMT in a busy ALS system. I work ten shifts a month. Nine of those shifts are on an ALS pumper and one on a ALS ambulance. I would have to say, getting your EMT just so you can put it in your resume would be a waste of time. As several people have mentioned before, use that time on something more worthwhile. EMT is a great class, and I love what I do, but until you get into the ALS portion of emergency medicine, there just isn't really any challenge.

Here in Kansas, the scope of practice is going up for EMT-B's. I believe we are going to be able to start IV's and also give most drugs except narcotics.

If you want to do the EMT course for experience, than I say go for it. There is something magical about walking into somebodys house, or walking up to a giant car wreck and being able to actually help somebody. It's great experience and fun.

Good luck!!
 
Lots of great responses here I feel like Im not really adding anything but I will say:

-I worked as an EMT-B for a little over a year (2009-10) for a first responder non-transport rescue squad. It was legit...we had the same equipment as the county EMS agency and didnt have to do the transportation! So the entire job centered around patient care in a very diverse setting. My station received a large variety of calls and a lot of calls at that. Usually about 4-6 in a 12 hr shift.

-Your scope of practice and your experience will largely be based on your setting, your paramedic or captain, and your state. My paramedic (captain) was all about having me do as much work as I was comfortable doing, and since we were not heavily scrutinized for following protocol I was able to do more than the typical EMT-B (intubations, IVs, administer 6-7 different drugs, EEG/EKG interpretations etc.).

-Being a first responder squad we had to work with the county EMS agency as they did the transportation. We did however get plenty of time to "work the scene" either with them or before they got there. If you show you are confident and competent most paramedics will work well with you. They say paramedics save lives, EMTs save paramedics. Its true, there will be times a very obvious or basic component gets missed.

-The experience was invaluable as it proved to me my passions and talents for the healthcare profession were not extrinsically motivated. Granted this is not work in the same capacity as a physician but the experience you get in understanding how the healthcare system works (and fails) is invaluable.
Its not glamorous work and I would posit that if you can handle this work with compassion, humility, and enthusiasm, then it says a lot about your motivations for pursuing a medical degree.

-Oh, and make sure your back is in good shape and you know how to lift properly!
 
I'm an NR-EMTP, and I'm tired of seeing people say that it's not a worthwhile thing to consider before applying to medical school. Yes, depending on the school, some research is good, but having real world experience can count for a lot on your application, and your interview. Who is more useful, a student with real world code experience, or someone who was president of AED (not knocking AED, was a member myself) when they're on their first rotation and someone has an MI in front of them? I mean, call me crazy, but it seems an interview panel would enjoy talking to an applicant about the actual issues a state faces (seeing as how we see people prehospital, in their element) over someone who knows they want to go to medical school, but doesn't have any idea what it's like to work with an actual patient.
 
I'm an NR-EMTP, and I'm tired of seeing people say that it's not a worthwhile thing to consider before applying to medical school. Yes, depending on the school, some research is good, but having real world experience can count for a lot on your application, and your interview. Who is more useful, a student with real world code experience, or someone who was president of AED (not knocking AED, was a member myself) when they're on their first rotation and someone has an MI in front of them? I mean, call me crazy, but it seems an interview panel would enjoy talking to an applicant about the actual issues a state faces (seeing as how we see people prehospital, in their element) over someone who knows they want to go to medical school, but doesn't have any idea what it's like to work with an actual patient.
When people say getting an EMT certification is "not worth it," they are generally refering to the amount of time it takes to get trained and actually use it to get some experience, rather than saying it is a worthless experience.

I agree with you that knowing what it is like to have actual patient experience is beneficial. However, when you apply to medical school, they don't care what skills you may or may not have. Afterall, everything you need to know to be a physician, you will learn in medical school. Most adcoms don't know what an EMTs scope of practice is, much less the difference between an EMT-b and an EMT-P. Personally, not a single interviewer asked me about my EMT experience. All they wanted to know was my impression of what it was like working INSIDE a hospital.

I think where being an EMT will help you the most, is when you write your personal statement and your essays. It should provide you with lots of insight and stories that will help you write great essays.
 
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