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Early Decision Program

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by Mai, Feb 9, 1999.

  1. Mai

    Mai Junior Member

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    Feb 5, 1999
    After reading all these messages about waiting for schools to reply and how crazy the entire process is, I am thinking about applying to an early decision program. But on the other hand, I am not so sure of which DO school I want to go to. So far, I know that Western/COMP has one, and I have good impression after visiting the school. To further complicate my decision, I am still considering M.D. schools. About 70% of me is leaning towards D.O. and the other 30% is forcing me to think about M.D. Please give me whatever advice you have on applying early to a program and how you made a decision whether to go to D.O. or M.D. schools.

    [This message has been edited by Mai (edited 02-09-99).]
     
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  3. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Jan 28, 1999
    Kirksville, MO
    If you want to apply early, do your homework early and in depth about the schools you're interested in. Be prepared to apply to other schools, just in case. The other question is why you are more interested in DO vs MD? Do you know are have a feeling yet what area of medicine you want to go in? This can affect your choice of path.
     
  4. Henry

    Henry Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Dec 30, 1998
    I have applied to DO and along with MD schools. It doesn't mean that I have doubt about osteopathic medicince but just because I do like certain program in certain MD school and/or location reason. However, I apply to more Do schools than and MD schools. The treated allopathic schools as a back up in a way.

    So it is ok to apply for both. Hey getting into any medical school now is not that easy. It is like a massive wrestling match and Y O U have to knock many other opoponent to get into a spot. So don't ever give up any chances and plan ahead.

    Good luck
     
  5. DOPhD student

    DOPhD student Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Nov 18, 1998
    somewhere on earth
    Take a friendly advice. If you're in the application stage, apply to both MD and DO schools because it's so competitive now that one cannot afford to elminated 125 allopathic schools or 19 osteopathic schools across the board. If you have a choice between attending an MD or a DO school, pick the former because it will make your life after medical school much easier with residency and public recognition. But no matter where you end up, your education will be the same - everything medical and just tons of it to ingest and digest. I myself did not apply to an EDP. I was accepted by an out-of-state MD school, wait-listed at 2 in-state MD schools, and accepted at an in-state DO school. I ended up accepting a seat at the the DO school because at the time, I understood the medical education at this DO school compares very favorably with other TX MD schools and also because I felt a medical education that costs less is a better one as well. A few years into it, however, I must say, had I a chance to relive my life, I cannot honestly say I would made the same choice. Much luck and success in your endeavors Mai.
     
  6. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Jan 28, 1999
    Kirksville, MO
    Hi DOPhD. It's me again. Could you elaborate some more about your second to last sentence? I realize you may not want to say too much but please provide whatever you can. Based on your other posts, I can sympathize with your feelings. I want to go into ortho and I feel that knowing OMT would make me a better orthopod than one who didn't. However, despite this, I can't say for sure whether or not going the DO track is the best choice. To Mai, I completely agree that you should apply to both. If you want to go into primary care, then going DO isn't too bad. However, if you want something like surgery, an MD school is CURRENTLY the better choice.
     
  7. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Nov 9, 1998
    Largo, Florida (USA)
    DOPhD, I too would like you to elaborate on your dissatisfaction with your medical education. As I related in another thread, you were once a fired up D.O. student; now you regret your decision to pursue osteopathic medicine. It is a shame to see such dedication wane. Please know that I am not accusing you of anything as you are certainly entitled to your opinions. I'm just curious what brought about such a dramatic reversal of enthusiasm.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. DOPhD student

    DOPhD student Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    145
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    Nov 18, 1998
    somewhere on earth
    Gregory and justwannabadoc, here is an explanation of my current dissatisfaction, or rather a better term disappointment with osteopathic medicine. Make no mistake that I'm completely satisfied with the medical education thus far as it has prepared me well for the shelf exams as well as the boards, ironically better for the USMLE than the COMLEX. That is not the issue - qualification. The issue here is reality, professional advancement. Let's face the fact, there are approximately 65 osteopathic hospitals in the US catering mainly to DO physicians whereas I can't even begin to guess the number of MD hospitals. I understand that DOs are theoretically welcomed at these institutions and they are, but the fact of the matter is, there still exists a glass ceiling for DOs, especially those who aspire to a career in research or teaching. For example, most allopathic schools look for teaching or research faculty within the MD pool, not the DO pool. Osteopathic schools play the same game about preferring DOs, but I ask you, how many osteopathic schools are really research oriented? Few at best. For individuals like myself who wish to establish a career in research and possibly teach, it would be difficult, not impossible, to break through the barrier with my esoteric degree. All I care about is the number and resources, and certainly the allopathic community outweighs the osteopathic community in these respects. Finally, recent event with another graduate who encountered obvious discrimination really woke me up to reality. It dawns on me of the limitation of being a DO if a student wants to be anything other than an FP. There's nothing wrong with that, but let me give you a parable. If you pay good money to eat in a fancy restaurant, you expect many choices on the menu. You will not order or eat everything available to you, but you have the luxury of options. Why do people study or work hard? To amass resource with the endgoal of expanding options. I wish that in-coming students will not evaluate my post with cynicism or be discouraged by truth. Just be aware.
     
  9. Henry

    Henry Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Dec 30, 1998
    Many hero in this century has make the world sees things in a very different way. To name a few like Martin Luther and Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln, the chinese students that stands in front of the Tank during the Tienaman Square massacre, etc. These people fight the impossible battle, some win some don't. However, they all believe that what they did were right.

    Indeed, when we look back into to history, if everyone is so scare of difficult and discrimination and never speak out and fight the impossible war, our world will never change. If we the DO never show others who we are and what we are all about, the discrimniation will be there for sure. Let give the path for our next generation. If we regret of what we did now, people who follow our footstep will be in shame.

    I am proud because of what I believe in osteopathic medicine can help people that need our help.

    Saying " regret" will not help all those incoming DO students. Help us to face the challenge and unit together is the way to go.

    I am a minority in the country and I always have to deal with bias and discrimnination. Am I regret to be one of my race, no. I am so proud that if I have second life I will choose it again.

    Be PROUD and fight the battle
     
  10. edgar

    edgar Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Nov 1, 1998
    Pomona, CA
    DOPhD,

    A prestige career as a medical educator in an allopathic institution is still open to you. Gregory, maybe you can help us with this, is there a Dr. Fazzini? (DO, PhD) who is a professor of medicine at NYU? If anything, if you get a residency at a hot-shot institution that will open the doors for you to become a medical educator/researcher. Being a minority isn't always bad. I'm a Chinese-American, and the cultural values my parents have passed on to me as well as my American values that I have from being born and raised in this country allow me to experience the best of both worlds. Perhaps being an osteopathic physician affords you the ability to be thoroughly competent in Western allopathic medicine, and also allows you to use your hands as well to heal others. In my eyes, difference is always good.

    EDGAR
     
  11. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    265
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    Nov 9, 1998
    Largo, Florida (USA)
    Yeah, Fazzini's site is:

    http://www.med.nyu.edu/people/E.Fazzini.html

    The only thing I would add is that I think it is still possible to have a prestigous career at an osteopathic institution. UNT, UMDNJ and MSU turn out some decent research. From what I've read, if you are interested in Alzheimer's Disease, UNT is going to be a great place to be. But granted, they aren't Harvard, Yale, yada yada yada -- and for some, those are the only ones that count.

    But honestly, I agree with you, DOPhD. I've been informally advising premedical students for years regarding ostepathic medicine. To those students who want to do things like subspecialty surgery and research I would say, "You CAN do that as a D.O., but it will be tougher to get there." For those students that feed on prestige, I also recommend they look elsewhere because, as you said, of the esoteric degree. And finally, I do not recommend osteopathic medicine to those who are ga-ga about allopathic medicine and concerned about being accepted by M.D.s (these people are too insecure to be D.O.s).

    So I think you are right when you say that people need to assess the field TRUTHFULLY. I feel that I do a pretty good job of that. I don't think that osteopathic medicine is the end-all of good medicine... but I do KNOW it is where I belong based on my years of experience in the field.

    On a final note, I think we also need to assess the allopathic field TRUTHFULLY. As you probably know, I'm a gerontology intern doing research at a fairly high profile allopathic institution. On many occasions I truly wonder what the allopathic profession did to win the prestige it apparently has. I'm not sure I want that prestige if it means I have to become aloof, close minded, and egotistical like many of the physicians I encounter.

    Quick story: Recently in my hospital office, I was working on my research when a housekeeper came in to empty my garbage. We just started talking and she began venting to me about the way physicians treat her. Finally, she asked, "So what do you do?" I told her I was a researcher and that I was starting medical school in the fall. I also said, "BUT, I'll be studying something I'm not sure you're familiar with... osteopathic medicine." The woman's eyes lit up in her head and her expression changed from one of disatisfaction to one of hope. She was so excited that I was going to be "one of those osteopaths."

    This woman was a "nobody" in the medical world. But after seeing her expression change so quickly at the words "osteopathic medicine" I decided that I would take her admiration any day over any other physician in the hospital. Her admiration was sincere and from the perspective of someone who might someday need my help. And I shun anyone who wants the perception of D.O.s to be identical to that of M.D.s if it would lessen the expression of hope in this woman's face.

    This whole experience was very eye-opening. I realized that if I had all the respect in the world from my physician colleagues but not from my patients, then I'd be a less effective healer. And yet if a few of my colleagues did not respect me because of my D.O. degree, it would not reduce my effectiveness as a physician one bit.

    Just some thoughts.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. RDGJD

    RDGJD Junior Member 10+ Year Member

    As far as the recognition factor goes, I have three DO friends in three different regions of the country who are doing ACGME residencies, two of whom are Chief Residents of their services (EM and IM, respectively), and the third is up for Chief next year in hers (traumatology/special surgery). From my discussions with them, they seem happy (though stressed) and report no "prestige" problems at all. SO there is hope.
     
  13. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Jan 28, 1999
    Kirksville, MO
    RDGJD. I don't suppose you could reveal which hospitals your friends are at. If not, I understand (city or state would be helpful too). I am particularly interested in the ones in EM and surgery. Is there a way I could contact them? You can e-mail whatever information you're comfortable with providing me if you don't want to post it. Thanks.
     
  14. Doctor_Strange

    Doctor_Strange 2+ Year Member

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    Mar 28, 2015
    Damn, this thread is old.
     
  15. TrueWolverine

    TrueWolverine 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 23, 2015
    I started reading it, not realizing how old it is, and after reading the story was about to "like" it when I noticed and thought "holy crap this is almost 20 years old! Why the heck did it resurface??" Then I saw your comment....hahaha
     
  16. TrueWolverine

    TrueWolverine 2+ Year Member

    191
    138
    Jan 23, 2015
    I started reading it, not realizing how old it is, and after reading the story was about to "like" it when I noticed and thought "holy crap this is almost 20 years old! Why the heck did it resurface??" Then I saw your comment....hahaha
     

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