early decision vs regular

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Dulcina, May 11, 2008.

  1. Dulcina

    Dulcina =)

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    I tried doing a search on SDN, but couldnt come up with anything. Does anyone know the likelihood of getting in somewhere early decision, as compared with in the regular app cycle? Thinking about stanford, in particular.

    Thanks!
     
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  3. TupacalipseT96

    TupacalipseT96 R U Still Down?

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    I was considering the same thing (to Stanford).

    Long story short, don't do it. The long-term benefits of applying broadly far outweigh applying early. Though it'd be less stressful and cheaper, you risk a.) not getting in then being at a severe disadvantage for the remainder of that app season, and b.) ultimately paying more since you won't have multiple fin-aid/scholarship offers to consider/appeal, etc.

    It doesn't sound like early apps have a better chance of getting in either... in fact it's probably the opposite. So that shouldn't be weighed as a pro.

    That was my conclusion, anyway.
     
  4. flip26

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    Not a great plan for anybody except the applicant who is stuck in one place (say because of family matters) where there is only one med school...it is not an "admissions strategy" that works well for more than a handful of applicants...
     
  5. 186321

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    I had 2 buddies in college apply early admission to MUSC. They did it because it was their top choice and they were confident they would get in with their superior stats (3.8 and 34 MCAT). They both got in.. so who knows.
     
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  6. UGAmkw

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    It has to be easier to get in under EDP, mainly because you HAVE to go to that school, I don't see how it could possibly be harder to get in under EDP. Plus it definitely helps if there is one school that you for sure want to go to, for instance, Georgia has three medical schools, two of which are private so i would think that a lot of ppl applying in GA would want to go to MCG to save about 40k a year. Because even though Emory is a top-tier school, is it really worth another 100k in debt?
     
  7. Wylde

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    The general consensus is that the likelihood of being accepted early decision is almost identical to being accepted normally (ie, ED does not increase your chance of being accepted).

    It is only useful for people who only want to attend one school (for family, financial, etc. reasons).

    You might have a VERY small increase in likelihood of acceptance, but that is negligible. Most people that apply ED call the school ahead-of-time and ask how competitive they are (so they don't waste time applying ED), most schools will tell you what your chances are.

    edit: UGAmkw: while that makes some sense, you can also consider it in a different light. Adcoms could be reluctant to admit students ED because they do not know how competitive future applicants will be. There is no way to compare a ED app to the rest of the applicant pool, since there is no applicant pool. With this ideology, many mediocre apps that might get in during the normal season would be denied because the school feels they will be able saturated with mediocre applicants later and don't even know if this mediocre applicant will be competitive this season (so they would only accept very strong apps ED).
     
  8. BigRedPremed

    BigRedPremed Senior Member

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    EDP is for people who already have a 80% shot at getting into a school and want to boost that to 99%. In other words, you should be heavily overqualified for the school AND have an outstanding reason for attending.
     
  9. UGAmkw

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    but.....why would a very strong applicant apply ED, I would think that they (for the most part) would apply regular so they would get multiple acceptances? if anything i would expect that most who apply EDP, are probably mediocre, and I'm sure that the school accepts a somewhat fixed amount of EDP per year. So if you are sure of the school you want to go to, then why not apply EDP, cecause even if you dont get accepted early, you might get accepted later on.
     
  10. BigRedPremed

    BigRedPremed Senior Member

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    Most strong applicants don't apply EDP. Only applicants who have strong reasons (perhaps they have already established a family nearby or perhaps they have an ailing mother and need to stay home, etc.) for attending a school would apply EDP. In other words, they NEED to attend that specific med school. For this reason, EDP is not appropriate for the vast majority of applicants because they lack such strong ties to a particular med school or location.
     
  11. ChubbyChaser

    ChubbyChaser Yummmy

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    The only benefit you are gonna get in applying edp is showing the school that you really want to go there, maybe improving your chances a little bit for that particular school.

    But you would probably be better off applying to a broad lsit of school and that would you give you a better shot of getting an acceptance to any school
     
  12. dd128

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    This is true as far as mcg goes. It is one of the few schools that takes an excessive amount of applicants (close to half) from edp. So for mcg your shots are better applying early decision, but I think this is rare as most schools take a lot less.
     
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  13. TupacalipseT96

    TupacalipseT96 R U Still Down?

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    Most EDP places won't release your application until Oct. 1st if you aren't accepted. So that is a HUGE risk, imo. If your AMCA isn't being sent to other schools until Oct. 1st then you're in the same boat as other slackoffs who submitted their AMCAs in October. Good luck to you. If I applied ED and didnt get in then I'd wait until the next app cycle and apply early regular decision. In general, you better be damn confident that you will get in.

    And whoever mentioned that most schools will tell you if you're a competitive ED applicant was right. If you are serious about this, contact the Dean of Admissions at Stanford and send him your resume/transcript/etc. He'll take a look at it and let you know if he thinks you'd make a good potential ED candidate. That's what I did and he was receptive.
     
  14. TheRealMD

    TheRealMD "The Mac Guy"

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    Applicants should only apply EDP if they were going to get in via regular admission anyway. It should NOT be used as a way to push your application "over the top". Call schools to find out what your chances are, as they will tell you straight up whether they think EDP is good for you or not.
     
  15. Dulcina

    Dulcina =)

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    thank you everyone for all the replies =) made my decision easy--not going to apply early
     
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  17. Bahadur

    Bahadur Cookies! nom nom nom

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    hmmm...

    What if you have previously applied to a (non-top tier) school in the last cycle, got interviewed, waitlisted, and know for sure it's your top choice?

    Do you guys suggest applying ED in the next cycle to that school or not?
     
  18. divineivy2013

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    i applied early acceptance to Rochester and I got in...
     
  19. flip26

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    Not really - you have already been given some idea of your competitiveness at this school - and I agree with others that ED only makes sense for applicants who are highly likely to have gotten in regular admissions - and you did not - I have read the same from admissions directors who comment on this topic...
     
  20. Springhill Mike

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    a guy on the admissions committee at uab and usa com said there were no downsides to early acceptance only difference was you know sooner and you normally do it for your top choices
     
  21. flip26

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    Umm, the "downside" is if you don't get in...then you are way behind the 8 ball for getting your app in anywhere else...
     
  22. Wylde

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    It is for the people that ONLY want to attend 1 school (ie, if they got multiple acceptances it would be meaningless, cuz they will only be able to attend 1 school).

    Reasons are usually restricted to family (need to stay close by to help parents, SO goes to that school, etc.).

    It is NOT for people who want to increase their chances in any way, or for people who want to go to other schools.
     
  23. HumidBeing

    HumidBeing In Memory of Riley Jane
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    There is no downside IF you get in. The downside if you don't is that your application gets to any other schools late in the cycle.
     
  24. Nikki2002

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    i was accepted early decision. but i had extremely strong ties to the school and met regularly with the dean of admissions prior to applying.


    if you are going to do this, get the go ahead from the dean of admissions. they will usually be pretty open as to telling you what your chances are.
     
  25. Captain Fantastic

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    According to my copy of the MSAR, nationally 48% of EDP candidates were accepted via the EDP, 15% were rejected EDP but accepted in the regular process, and 37% were not accepted at all. On the regular side of the house, 49% were accepted and 52% were rejected. Only 3% of the applicant pool applied via the EDP.

    My school requires you to be a state resident, have a >=3.75 GPA, >=30 MCAT, and encourages potential applicants to discuss their candidacy with the director of admissions prior to applying EDP. Boiled down, based on numbers alone EDP candidates would competitive in the regular pool and the pre-interview interview helps to cull the socially inept.

    I applied and was accepted via the EDP. It was a good experience for me. I definitely recommend meeting with someone in the admission's office before applying to make sure they feel you would be competitive in that pool.
     
  26. Springhill Mike

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    Not really.. If you are smart you will do early acceptance and put regular apps in at other schools just put early for top choices
     
  27. flip26

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    You have no idea how wrong you are.

    When you apply ED, you are not allowed to "put regular apps" in at other schools.

    Second, I thought it was a typo in your other post, but you again make reference to ED "choices" - as if you can make multiple ED apps - wrong again, dude. You can designate only one school as your ED school.

    It is a very high risk strategy that makes sense for very few applicants.
     
  28. Nikki2002

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    Once you designate a school as early decision, AMCAS will not allow you to submit apps to any other schools until the ED school releases your application (if you aren't accepted, probably sometime in october).


    The school you apply ED to will make probably make you sign a "contract" which states that you will attend that school if accepted and not apply to any other schools.
     
  29. Captain Fantastic

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    The contract is with AMCAS as part of the EDP application process. You sign your application "electronicially" and there is a screen where you agree to the terms of the EDP. If you are accepted EDP you must attend that school. If you decline the EDP offer you cannot apply to other AMCAS schools that application cycle. Since AMCAS controls the primary application, they can definitely enforce these rules.
     
  30. REL

    REL Senior Member
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    Applying ED is not for everyone. It is for strong applicants who know exactly where they want to go to med school. You can only apply to one school and if accepted you are done, early, and cheaply. You dont have the stress of waiting for an interview phone call during the late Sep-March Interview season. Typically ED applicants must have better than average MCAT scores and GPA to even be considered for ED.

    In the ED process, AMCAS gives them priority in verification to meet the August 1 deadline. Schools normally will let an applicant know whether they are going to be interviewed by late August. If you are not going to be interviewed you can immediately change your application type to Regular MD, be verified, and only have to complete the secondary process to be in the pool for other interviews. This scenario puts you available for interview by very early October --- basically at the very beginning of the 24 week interview season --- no time lost, no disadvantage.

    If you are selected for an interview, that interview usually occurs in early Sep with a yes/no response within about a week or 10 days. Again if accepted you can plan the next year. If not accepted, you immediately change your app type to Reg MD, complete secondaries, and are in the pool available for interview by the end of Oct at the latest. Again you are ready for an interview in week 5 of a 24 week process. Since ED applicants have higher stats and usually strong EC's, there is no problem getting an interview.

    If you do your homework and find the program for you and it has an ED program, and your are eligible, why not ED? If you are not sure where you want to go and want to shop around, ED is not for you.

    Finally, the aspect of comparing financial aid with multiple acceptances is not a big factor in that again, if you did your homework, you know the costs, you know the awards. Few schools will bargain financial aid packages because they dont have the money, they do have plenty of applicants. In rare instances there will be a very limited bidding war for an applicant between schools --- very rare, and normally private institutions who may have some latitude. The MSAR is a good place to review costs as well as individual med program web sites.

    In most cases I have experienced a nearly 90% acceptance rate of ED applicants who apply to the program that I am familiar with. And in most cases when that other 10% reapplied that same year via the Reg Md, the too got in later in the year. It is a good way to let a program know that you are ready to dedicate to them.

    So the downside? I guess it could be getting an interview in the regular process in about the 5th week rather than the first if you are not accepted ED. The only other downside is......um........hmmm......
     
  31. flip26

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    Totally wrong way to look at the downside. If you don't hit the "send" button on your primaries until after getting an ED reject in early October, you are VERY LATE in the regular admissions cycle.

    I don't think that many if any ED applicants are "rejected out of hand" post secondary - I assume that virtually all ED applicants at least get an interview (i.e., invalidating your point that if you bomb out pre-interview in early September, you will have plenty of time to recover in the regular app cycle).
     
  32. BigRedPremed

    BigRedPremed Senior Member

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    The reason EDP applicants are so successful is the fact that they are extremely self-selective, with strong ties to the school and numerous consultations with the Dean of Admissions. It is not simply a plan for someone to get into their top choice early. You must have a strong reason to go to the school.

    If you don't get in, you will be at a significant disadvantage. By October last year, I had already completed 26 secondaries and done 3 interviews as a regular applicant. As a failed EDP applicant, you will simply be submitting your primary then. Even if you are on the ball, it'll take you another month or two before you can finish all of the secondaries and probably ANOTHER month before your file gets reviewed and probably ANOTHER month before you can do your interview. We're talking interviews in Feb/March, when there are barely any spots left. Anytime we hear a horror story about an applicant with good stats who doesn't get in, it usually starts with "So I sent in my application late..."
     
  33. REL

    REL Senior Member
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    I guess it depends upon your ability to quickly react and push the submit button. If you find out ~Aug 25~ and go into AMCAS to select your other programs, those programs immediately get your verified application. Maybe they take a week to send you a secondary. You return the secondary and have LOR's sent so that by ~Sep 15~ they have all of your info. They review your app, decide to invite for interview ~Sep 25~ and invite you for a date 2-3 weeks later. The regular interview season begins at the end of Sep or early Oct. I dont see how you are very late.

    You know what they say about assumptions. Not all ED applicants are invited for an interview. Programs will look for more than the numbers for ED (and all applicants, hopefully) and will not invite several of the ED applicants for various reasons (motivation for med?, research?, not a team player?, etc.)
     
  34. flip26

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    Well, the only people advised to apply ED are ones who have a very high likelihood of not only getting an interview but being accepted. If somebody applies ED and does NOT get an interview, it suggests they did not do their homework, which generally includes having actual discussions with the ED school in advance to get a preliminary feel for one's chances - med schools suggest this on their websites for anyone considering ED...

    One more thing - lots of schools start regular interviews in August, and many are "blowing and going" in early September...I know at my state schools, many people get acceptance notices from late August and early September interviews by early October, technically before the med schools are allowed to tell an applicant they have been admitted (I think Oct 15)...
     
  35. REL

    REL Senior Member
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    Lots of schools start regular interviews in August? While not an expert, I am not aware of any that interview other than ED applicants in August. I would be interested in knowing which MD schools interview regular applicants in August. As well, I dont believe that you can produce any evidence of applicants who have been accepted prior to Oct 15, that is a clear violation of AAMC traffic rules and no program would risk violating this rule.
     
  36. TheRealMD

    TheRealMD "The Mac Guy"

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    You forget that just because the interview season is starting, that does NOT mean that your app, if good enough, will be reviewed as soon as it's complete. At plenty of schools, I waited a good 2 months before getting an interview invite and I submitted my stuff in July (and in Texas, they were already giving out invites at that time). It's not as simple as you think if you fumble as an EDP applicant.
     
  37. flip26

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    Check the EVMS threads - people reported being told they had been accepted prior to October 15 via some sort of reporting loophole...

    Do your own research on August interviews for regular cycle applicants.
     
  38. BigRedPremed

    BigRedPremed Senior Member

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    Honestly, your timeline is just not realistic. Have you applied to medical school before?

    1. You're not going to find out by late August. Mid-September would be optimistic.

    2. Because you will be applying late, you will have to apply to more schools (probably at least 15-25). Do you honestly think you can complete 20 secondaries in 2 weeks?

    3. It takes schools awhile, sometimes weeks and months, to mark you down as complete. So, while you may have your LOR and secondary sent in by October 15th, it maybe November 15th before they even acknowledge receipt of your materials and mark your file as complete.

    4. Just because your file is complete, it doesn't mean it will be reviewed right away. Most of the time, there is a queue. For example, I had sent in all my secondaries and LOR's by mid-August but the bulk of my invites were in October-November.

    5. Your interview can be scheduled for 2 weeks up to months after your invite. For example, I received an invite on November 30th last year and the interview was scheduled for mid-February.
     
  39. dreams

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    this is just a suggestion but perhaps from the little icon below this person's name would indicate that this person knows what they are talking about so I would take in what they are saying if it was me:) Not saying that other people are "wrong" but this person has knowledge in this area for sure.
     
  40. BigRedPremed

    BigRedPremed Senior Member

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    I don't mean any disrespect to the poster, but from that post, I'd have to guess that he/she has never been through a full-application cycle.
     
  41. Captain Fantastic

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    REL is an admission's committee member (in Florida, if my memory serves correctly). Perhaps generalizing from how his committee operates to the how the rest of the medical schools handle applicants isn't perfect, but he knows the application process very well.
     
  42. REL

    REL Senior Member
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    Roughly 15 years in med school administration, the last eight running the admissions process. My experience is Florida, but also very familiar with many of the nations medical admissions offices and processes. NOT overly familiar with the Texas system. The timeline I presented is accurate as to how my admissions office works --- but then again, I am very aggressive about getting completed files reviewed and decisions made as to interview, reject, or hold for possible interview once files hit the Regular process. I certainly dont know it all, but have been through the battle and can only relate my experiences and what I have learned from fellow admissions officers. Over the years I have tried to post and be helpful. Obviously you have your own experts here, I will be happy to cease and desist. Certainly no disrespect taken, have a great year.
     
  43. LifetimeDoc

    LifetimeDoc EM Attending
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    Having gone through the admissions process at the school that REL was at for many years, I can attest to his knowledge, helpfulness, and friendly attitude that made it a joy (well in actuality it's torture, but he made it much more bearable) to apply to medical school in Florida. He was always helpful with good and frank advice, both in person and here on SDN, to applicants throughout the state of Florida and elsewhere.
     
  44. flip26

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    Given your experience, can you comment on the common advice for applicants considering ED to at least talk to the school in advance, to get some sort of a feel for the likelihood they will succeed? Does your school do this sort of counseling? Does your school recommend it? Does your school discourage weaker applicants from applying ED?

    Can you comment more specifically about ED apps at your school: How many per year? What is the typical distribution of rejected/interviewed/accepted? What is the general quality of applicants who apply ED - similar to regular pool applicants, or higher?
     
  45. Captain Fantastic

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    I hope you didn't take my post as disrespectful. I was trying to point out how valuable your point of view is since, in fact, you have much more experience in the admissions process than most anyone else on these forums.
     
  46. REL

    REL Senior Member
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    We have a very open and active "consultation" service for ED's, other applicants, AND pre-med advisors. I do encourage dialogue to ensure that all are aware of where they stand in regard to the general "pool." Every year prospective applicants travel from around the state to our med school admissions office to assess their situation and to determine what to do for increase competitiveness in the pool for this, or future application cycles.

    Published requirements were 30 MCAT, 3.70 GPA's for ED apps. On average had about 10-15 apps per year, probably interviewed about 2/3 of apps, probably accepted about 90%; almost all of the other 10% were accepted that same year in our program via the Regular MD process later that year. ED stats were about equal to that of the starting overall class each year.
     
  47. MWK

    MWK Over-represented majority

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    This is entirely NOT true. I was an EDP applicant for UK. I had a 3.55 and a 33, solid EC's and a 4.0 application year. So I wasn't "heavily overqualified" and I wasn't underqualified.

    EDP is for those who want to attend a school, are at/above averages and want to send a message to that school that they dont want to sort through the BS. Its a reciprocal action on school/applicant part.

    Now for the top tiers, Id say it does not boost your chances. But for state schools, it really helps the applicants in that first standard deviation stand out above the pack. For UK, the accepted EDP is somewhere above 80% of applicants.

    You WILL be asked why you chose EDP, ie your IRONCLAD reasons for wanting to go to XX Med school, not just its a great school. For me, I am from Lexington, went to UK and then told them that I hate Louisville (good for a laugh) and because I wanted to stay in state (We had a discussion about paying for private schools, the interviewers son and my older sister both went to $$$ schools when state was an option). In the end I told them that UK was the only option and I was glad for that so I wanted to send them a message that I wanted to be there. EDP is that message.

    And plus I got accepted September 6. Can't beat that.
     
  48. HaloMasterChief

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    GPA 3.25 (including 1 year post-bac with 4.0GPA)
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    Starting a SMP (MA in biomedical sciences) next year.
    Waitlisted this year at NJMS. Spoke with the dean who said that my apps received positive review from committee this year (i interviewed late due to office mixed up or something) and suggest i apply early decision next year... I'm thinking about taking his advice and apply ED.

    What is everyone else think??? i'm a little worried about that 3.25GPA (3.19 science) considering that from what i heard on here alot of people apply ED has overqualified stat.
     
  49. flip26

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    If they suggested it, I would do it, but I would also get back in touch with him now and tell him that you are following up on his suggestion, etc, and then stay in touch with them.
     
  50. LilHouse

    LilHouse Failed Premed

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    :)
     
    #48 LilHouse, Jun 4, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009

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