Early promotion for additional advanced degree?

[XXBlockheadXX]

It may have been at OIS or during a different conversation, but I have been informed that an additional advanced degree, such as an MBA in Health Care Management or an MPH, can score an early promotion from (Navy) LT to LCDR. (others: CAPT to MAJ)

Can anyone confirm this? If this is true, how much earlier does the difference make. Thanks for the input.

If you can't confirm this but know where I might find this information, I would appreciate it.

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[delicatefade]

It is true and depends on your specialty and the type of advanced degree you have. This has been discussed before. I posted a link to the Army regulation but I'm not sure if anyone has posted information pertaining to the Navy.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

You can get credit towards promotion if your advanced degree is in a relevant field. The maximum credit for a Master's Degree is 2 years, while the maximum for a PhD is 3 years.

Here is the reference:
SECNAVINST 1120.12A
The information you are looking for can be found on pages 12 and 21 of 22.

 

[XXBlockheadXX]

Thank you, gentlemen, for the direction.

Unfortunately, it appears that the MBA degree that I've earned during medical school is not worthy of entry grade credit: "Credit shall not be awarded for a degree earned concurrently with the primary credential (i.e., MD or DO)."

One who applies oneself over four years is not acknowledged as much as one who takes six years to do the same thing.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

Thank you, gentlemen, for the direction.

Unfortunately, it appears that the MBA degree that I've earned during medical school is not worthy of entry grade credit: "Credit shall not be awarded for a degree earned concurrently with the primary credential (i.e., MD or DO)."

One who applies oneself over four years is not acknowledged as much as one who takes six years to do the same thing.

Unbelievable. I'd really like to know how they justified that one. I can read that one period of time cannot be counted twice, but come on - we're talking about whether or not you have an advanced degree, right? What good is the additional time period going to do for you?

Man that sucks. I'll be sure to keep that in mind if I am tempted to pursue a MPH while in med school...I'd better make it a five year program.

 

[delicatefade]

Or you could look at it this way. Why would they pay you more if you have no real world experience using your advanced degree??? Should a person who had an MBA for 5 years before going to medical school be paid the same as someone who graduates concurrently with an MD/MBA or DO/MBA or is that work experience worth something more???

I don't know the answer to this; just a thought.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

Or you could look at it this way. Why would they pay you more if you have no real world experience using your advanced degree??? Should a person who had an MBA for 5 years before going to medical school be paid the same as someone who graduates concurrently with an MD/MBA or DO/MBA or is that work experience worth something more???

I don't know the answer to this; just a thought.

Good thoughts...but that section of the instruction has nothing to do with the experience gained in using that degree. Theoretically, an individual could obtain his MBA, go directly into medical school, and still be able to accrue that additional credit because the degrees were not obtained concurrently.

 

[delicatefade]

True. Good game.

 

[Jet915]

So I got a Master of Science in biology before medical school. Would that count as relevant towards an internal medicine resident???

 

[delicatefade]

Having spoken with an Army radiologist who got advanced promotion for a prior master's degree, the best way to find out is to apply. Check out the appropriate regulation, follow the instructions, and see what happens. You do have to provide some type of statement indicating how your degree will enhance your job in a particular specialty.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

The Navy regulation has been updated, it is not "OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1120.4" A Navy HPSP friend of mine may benefit from this if she can justify her Masters degree as related. At the least she can get some credit. If you don't ask, you definately won't get it.
I did a yahoo search using 1120.4 and Navy.
Army rules are similar based on USC. PhD's can earn up to 4 years now.

 

[NavyFP]

Before you start complaining about not getting credit for degrees earned at the same time as med school think of this:

The services give you 4 years of credit for your medical degree. Should they subtract the time you spent obtaining a second degree and then add back in the time? You can't double dip time.

 

[XXBlockheadXX]

Before you start complaining about not getting credit for degrees earned at the same time as med school think of this:

The services give you 4 years of credit for your medical degree. Should they subtract the time you spent obtaining a second degree and then add back in the time? You can't double dip time.

Yes, it is understandable that time is not counted twice. However, that an additional degree is not accorded acknowledgment fails to support a system that rewards merit. Merit over what? I'm not sure how to put it, but, as stated earlier, one who does the same additional degree before medical school and then pursues med school carries the same qualifications and would be rewarded.

Perhaps it's idleness that is rewarded over merit.

 

[turkish]

Before you start complaining about not getting credit for degrees earned at the same time as med school think of this:

The services give you 4 years of credit for your medical degree. Should they subtract the time you spent obtaining a second degree and then add back in the time? You can't double dip time.

Yeah, they should. Obtaining the second degree is significantly more difficult to accomplish in the same amount of time, and there should be some incentive to do so. People with an MBA are potentially a greater asset due to their expanded knowledge base (more efficient clinic commanders), and should be rewarded for such.

No, I don't have a double degree. Logically though, it makes sense.

 

[Scooby007]

Is there a central source to obtain information about advance degrees and army promotions?

Quick summary:
Upon commissioning active duty I obtained a MSPH and am now in Medical School through the HPSP. Could the previously earned MSPH be used in a positive way during my military medical career (i.e. job opportunities coupled with a medical specialty and/or an earlier promotion)?

Thanks, just checking based on this thread's discussions....

 

[NavyFP]

So I got a Master of Science in biology before medical school. Would that count as relevant towards an internal medicine resident???

Yes.

 

[Jet915]

Yes.

Thanks. I emailed my detailer to see if I can get credit for my M.S. I wouldn't be surprised if I get shot down.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Is there a central source to obtain information about advance degrees and army promotions?

Quick summary:
Upon commissioning active duty I obtained a MSPH and am now in Medical School through the HPSP. Could the previously earned MSPH be used in a positive way during my military medical career (i.e. job opportunities coupled with a medical specialty and/or an earlier promotion)?

Thanks, just checking based on this thread's discussions....

Is an MSPH and MPH? If it is medically related then it counts. If not, then you have to make a case for it being related, then it may count 1/2. But, I am offering only "barracks legal advice." The real answer is in the OTSG office for HPSP - the OIC is LTC Buising. They seem to make the effort to give you as much credit as possible, but call them and ask how it is done.

As for the USN and USAF, each service regulations are based on the same DOD Instruction 6000.13 paragraph 6.1.2.2.2. Good Luck, and if you get an advanced date of rank to early O4, you have to pay for the party.

 

[NavyFP]

Thanks. I emailed my detailer to see if I can get credit for my M.S. I wouldn't be surprised if I get shot down.

If you do, let me know.

 

[megadon]

Before you start complaining about not getting credit for degrees earned at the same time as med school think of this:

The services give you 4 years of credit for your medical degree. Should they subtract the time you spent obtaining a second degree and then add back in the time? You can't double dip time.

Need some clarification on this. Are referring to the fact that we get commissioned as an O-3 upon graduation? Then yes, would be true unless you were previously an O-4+, which has happened. If you have no prior officer time, don't you start as an O-3/0, vs. me who will be O-3/6. Big difference pay wise. Also, you don't get the reward of our brethren at USUSHS who once they get to twenty get the four magic years of medical school tacked back on to their retirement calculation so they retire at 24 years, a 10% pension advantage.

yes, it is good that we are O-3's, but I think it is for recognition of the graduate degree, plus they already made you serve four years as an O-1, which may even be beyond high year tenure. (meaning they could kick you out for failure to promote). I will spend six years of my life as an ensign. I don't regret that, but I bemuse the fact that it is completely ridiculous. Being an ensign (retrospectively) is wonderful. The ensign salut of raising your arms in "I don't know" gets you out of everything. Even chiefs feel sorry for you are will buy you a beer cause they make more than you. Gotta look at the good side sometimes.

 

[Jet915]

If you do, let me know.

My detailer emailed me back and said I need to go to Personal Support Detachment when I get to San Diego and ask them cause they are the "experts" on Entry Grade Credit and that I wouldn't be eligible until May anways. Well, I guess I'll find out when I get to San Diego, thanks for the help.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

Before you start complaining about not getting credit for degrees earned at the same time as med school think of this:

The services give you 4 years of credit for your medical degree. Should they subtract the time you spent obtaining a second degree and then add back in the time? You can't double dip time.

I'm not understanding the logic applied here. I understand that you cannot double dip time - that is the currently policy as it is written. However, I contend that the policy is flawed. As others have already discussed (I think I may have as well), what is important here - is it the time spent, or the qualifications obtained? Intuitively, it should be the latter.

To answer your question, you deserve the 4 years of credit given for the medical degree - you earned that degree, so no time should be subtracted. If you were to obtain another degree during that same time period, you should receive the additional credit that is appropriate for that degree. Trying to apply any other logic to this situation does not make sense. An individual that completes the degree programs sequentially, rather than concurrently, still has to meet the same degree requirements, and is therefore no more qualified. Yet, in the current system, they receive the credit, while the other individual does not.

 

[DogFaceMedic]

In the immortal words of CPT Jack Sparrow, "there is what you can do and what you can't." If the rules allow it, you can get extra credit; if not, then arguing about how you are right and the system is wrong won't help very much.

So, my suggestion is if you are doing a MD/MPH, e.g., then go ahead anyway and claim that extra year that is needed for an MPH or for whatever is needed to do an MD/PhD. Just put in your request for date of rank that you have an MPH/PhD.

I think the restriction on concurrent degrees has to do with people who are on active duty while getting another degree. In this case you would not get double credit for something the military is paying for you to do already.

Regardless, if you don't ask for the extra credit, you definately won't get it. It doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

I think the restriction on concurrent degrees has to do with people who are on active duty while getting another degree. In this case you would not get double credit for something the military is paying for you to do already.

The restriction we are talking about applies to "Entry Grade Credit." The only individuals that I am aware of that pursue a medical degree while on active duty are USUHS students (the rest are in the IRR). Since the only dual degree program at USUHS is MD/PhD, which takes 7-8 years, because the degrees are not really completed concurrently, I don't think the restriction was put in place for individuals on active duty pursuing dual degrees.

 

[surfdr]

I have been trying to find out if joining the Navy on HSCP with a masters degree in medical science would give me 2 years of credit upon joining. My recruiter told me the answer was no; that OPNAVINST 1120.4a only applies to individuals joining the Navy who already hold an MD/DO degree. Can anyone confirm/deny whether this is true?

 

[NavyFP]

When you are commissioned as a LT you can potentially get the credit.