Easier acceptance to DO programs?

[Buddhasmash]

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I've been lurking in the forums for a few days now, and one thing I've noticed is that every time a pre-med student with less-than-optimal academic credentials asks for advice, he/she's told to try applying to DO programs. Are they easier to get accepted to than MD programs? If so, why?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Search function =).

Anyways DO schools on average are a bit easier to get into ( Average MD = 3.6/31, the well established DO schools = 3.5?/28). They also have a forgiveness policy where your retaken grades are instead of being rounded in, replace the older grade. They also tend to consider life experiences to a higher extent making them more tenured towards non-trads and job switchers.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

I don't think they are easier to get into -- they have about the same 40% acceptance rate as MD programs (I believe, but I am too lazy to source) -- but they are less likely to toss out your application for a lower GPA or MCAT score. They seem to do a more holistic review of your application than some MD schools.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Yea, it's easier. Make sure to get some DO shadowing and a letter from DO. It's easier because it has only been a couple decades since they've won equivalent practice rights everywhere, because they are less well known than MDs, and many people still think of DOs as inferior MDs and are too vain to want those letters behind their name.

 

[once]

DO programs are easier to get into in terms of grades and MCAT. You still have to have pretty decent academic credentials though (like 3.4-3.5? and not sure about the MCAT) and you have to show involvement, volunteering, shadowing, and a little research maybe.

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

Once, that is not true. Please try not to make this a DO vs MD war. There are some very well known/well-established DO schools that prepare qualified physicians. You can go anywhere with a DO degree now if you work hard, and the DO programs are just as qualified as MD programs to make that happen.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

Once is back. Yeah.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

The difference being that I've been hearing some absolute horror stories regarding the 3rd and 4th year rotations for some DO schools. I mean just shocked how little support these students receive during that time. This has been true for two schools that friends of mine are now 4th years at - I am not sure how common this is everywhere. Part of that is probably attributed to the lesser number of DO schools with their own hospitals.

In terms of the pure knowledge base of the first two years, all DO and MD schools are pretty much equivalent.

 

[MCAT guy]

The difference being that I've been hearing some absolute horror stories regarding the 3rd and 4th year rotations for some DO schools. I mean just shocked how little support these students receive during that time. This has been true for two schools that friends of mine are now 4th years at - I am not sure how common this is everywhere. Part of that is probably attributed to the lesser number of DO schools with their own hospitals.

In terms of the pure knowledge base of the first two years, all DO and MD schools are pretty much equivalent.

I've heard this too. I think the top DO schools do not have this problem, only the lower tier ones and maybe some middles.

 

[Poliscidoc]

Can a DO be a real doctor?

 

[MCAT guy]

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

I tend to disagree (and I'm not biased, I didn't apply to any DOs).

It is the doctor and the person learning the medicine who determines his/her education. Other than rotations, it will be largely dependent on the individual how good the education they receive.

 

[sideways]

DO programs are easier to get into in terms of grades and MCAT. You still have to have pretty decent academic credentials though (like 3.4-3.5? and not sure about the MCAT) and you have to show involvement, volunteering, shadowing, and a little research maybe.

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

Is that you in your avatar? Yikes. You'd make a freight train take a dirt road.

 

[EMS5]

DO programs are easier to get into in terms of grades and MCAT. You still have to have pretty decent academic credentials though (like 3.4-3.5? and not sure about the MCAT) and you have to show involvement, volunteering, shadowing, and a little research maybe.

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

And a DO is a practicing physician and you aren't even a medical student.

Did you have a point?

 

[Gigantron]

Can a DO be a real doctor?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

The difference being that I've been hearing some absolute horror stories regarding the 3rd and 4th year rotations for some DO schools. I mean just shocked how little support these students receive during that time. This has been true for two schools that friends of mine are now 4th years at - I am not sure how common this is everywhere. Part of that is probably attributed to the lesser number of DO schools with their own hospitals.

There have been some eye-opening stories in the DO medical student forums here about this same thing; students having to try to schedule core rotations away due to their programs being standalone and it being a massive headache. Not to even mention 4th year rotations, sub-i's, etc. Everything at some of those programs has to be scheduled like an away rotation and not every program's scheduling office is as on top of it as their students would seem to like.

 

[once]

Is that you in your avatar? Yikes. You'd make a freight train take a dirt road.

Looks like we found a DO student lol. My statement is true though, sorry.

 

[sideways]

Looks like we found a DO student lol. My statement is true though, sorry.

I'm sure you're highly qualified to make the statement as well. Having curry as a staple in your diet doesn't make you expert on medical training, my love.

 

[NickNaylor]

 

[QuizzicalApe]

If anyone would know about a DO's quality, though, it's Once. She's eschewed all meaningful social relationships in order to accrue this knowledge. If you can't trust someone whose fixation on an MD is nearly pathological in its severity to comment on the worth of an equivalent degree, who can you trust?

 

[MCAT guy]

Looks like we found a DO student lol. My statement is true though, sorry.

Peace YO!

You don't need to rip on DO schools/students.

 

[MCAT guy]

If anyone would know about a DO's quality, though, it's Once. She's eschewed all meaningful social relationships in order to accrue this knowledge. If you can't trust someone whose fixation on an MD is nearly pathological in its severity to comment on the worth of an equivalent degree, who can you trust?

I'll say this, MD or DO, don't give up your life and interests for a job.

You only live once yo.

 

[MCAT guy]

Hey bro, seems like your SDN interest has been on a dramatic decline (as has mine).

At this point I think you are addicted, lol. Bored but present.🙂

 

[gravitywave]

last i knew, AACOMAS actually had a lower ratio of seats to applicants than AMCAS schools did. ie, DO schools have a lower acceptance rate.

 

[orthomyxo]

Is that you in your avatar? Yikes. You'd make a freight train take a dirt road.

OMG I lol'd so hard I almost choked on my food. Well played sideways, well played.

I'm sure you're highly qualified to make the statement as well. Having curry as a staple in your diet doesn't make you expert on medical training, my love.

LOL, you're out for blood today.

And once, who the hell are you? Even if he/she is a DO student, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, you're like an undergrad sophomore which is basically nothing. Just because you're a super gunner doesn't mean you can bash med students. Oh yea, I just figured out how you got your username. It's because you had a friend "once."

 

[willen101383]

Holy ****. Stop grouping every DO school together. Its really ridiculous to make broad sweeping statements which are largely untrue. I will be the first one to say that there are several DO schools I would NEVER attend. However there are also plenty of schools which are 1.excellent schools 2. rival area MD programs in terms of matches,grades, board scores, 3. have hospitals 4. have local rotations, 5. do a significant amount of NIH funded research, and any combination of these factors...plus some. Some DO schools have been around a hell of a lot longer than many MD schools, and have HUGE alumni bases. Hell, I would even venture to say that students in my class are just as intelligent as students at pretty much any MD school out there, and do the exact same academically while in medical school.

Do you group every MD school together? I think not. Stop making generalizations. Maybe if half the people on SDN actually did some real research on DO schools (aside from the limitations or talking down about them), and perhaps visited one of the better DO schools...they would be pleasantly surprised.

 

[monkeyvokes]

Holy ****. Stop grouping every DO school together. Its really ridiculous to make broad sweeping statements which are largely untrue. I will be the first one to say that there are several DO schools I would NEVER attend. However there are also plenty of schools which are 1.excellent schools 2. rival area MD programs in terms of matches,grades, board scores, 3. have hospitals 4. have local rotations, 5. do a significant amount of NIH funded research, and any combination of these factors...plus some. Some DO schools have been around a hell of a lot longer than many MD schools, and have HUGE alumni bases. Hell, I would even venture to say that students in my class are just as intelligent as students at pretty much any MD school out there, and do the exact same academically while in medical school.

Do you group every MD school together? I think not. Stop making generalizations. Maybe if half the people on SDN actually did some real research on DO schools (aside from the limitations or talking down about them), and perhaps visited one of the better DO schools...they would be pleasantly surprised.

 

[DaisyBuchanan]

FWIW, an MD I know told me he thinks that the DO students that come through his hospital are often better prepared for patient contact than some MD students.

Now, let the Once bashing recommence.

 

[muhali3]

Once is back. Yeah.

lol I used to feel bad when people made fun of Once, but now its understandable.

 

[orthomyxo]

lol I used to feel bad when people made fun of Once, but now its understandable.

I felt the same way, so I didn't join in any of the other once-bashing threads. Now I need to make up for lost time.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

lol I used to feel bad when people made fun of Once, but now its understandable.

S(he) is an advent of the need for a good lul.

I just hope in my little tiny heart.. that once doesn't exist outside of the internet. Or else I will have even less hope for humanity..

 

[Helen Wheels]

In before the

 

[NickNaylor]

Hey bro, seems like your SDN interest has been on a dramatic decline (as has mine).

At this point I think you are addicted, lol. Bored but present.🙂

Yeah... pretty much. Unfortunately the little time I have I spend in the school-specific forums. Sometimes I venture into the general pre-med board to see if the SDN community has annihilated itself yet.

 

[MJM09]

last i knew, AACOMAS actually had a lower ratio of seats to applicants than AMCAS schools did. ie, DO schools have a lower acceptance rate.

Acceptance rates don't translate into competitiveness in a lot of cases, and "overall", DO schools are one of those cases. Having more applicants does not mean having better applicants. In a lot of cases, people with poor stats that aren't very competitive for D.O. schools end up applying to a bunch of D.O. schools hoping for the best because they "heard they were easier to get in to", but don't apply to any M.D. schools because they don't think they have a shot (which they often don't. If you're getting rejected by D.O. schools, which tend to have a more holistic view of an applicant, an average M.D. school is likely to throw the application out on numbers alone). So, you end up with more applicants, but the overall applicant pool is still less competitive overall. Don't get me wrong- there are some excellent D.O. schools out there, and I've advised many people to apply to them. They are not all created equal, but neither are all M.D. schools, you just have to pick ones you think will fit you (and your qualifications) best.
I have also heard from some healthcare recruiters that they think the D.O. curriculum tends to make for better primary care doctors. Naturally, this is going to vary from school to school (on a D.O. or M.D. school level), but it does show that many people on here tend to drastically over simplify a process and decision that isn't even close to simple.

 

[RynoTheGuy]

DO programs are easier to get into in terms of grades and MCAT. You still have to have pretty decent academic credentials though (like 3.4-3.5? and not sure about the MCAT) and you have to show involvement, volunteering, shadowing, and a little research maybe.

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

Utterly and totally false. Where and how do you get this tripe? DO's schools have superb programs - A DO is just as qualified as an MD.

 

[RynoTheGuy]

Looks like we found a DO student lol. My statement is true though, sorry.

Considering the fact that you are not even a medical student and are totally unqualified to make that comment, I'll take your blind comments on about as much as they are worth: 3 week old cat scat.

Your statement is true how? With what evidence? Based upon what some nitwit told you? Please, spare us your bigotry and complete lack of having any clue to what you are talking about. And yes to be clear, I'm applying MD 😉

btw this thread made me LOL at some of the comments...

 

[painmd87]

All DO schools are inferior in the same way that all MD schools produce hooker-killing craigslist addicts.

Come on, people!

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Neither of them are any good, as they both advocate vaccines. Wake up sheeple! Next you'll be telling me that men have landed on the moon and Elvis died decades ago.

 

[TriagePreMed]

DO is the wave of the future. Many people don't see that yet, but it'll be the degree that will gain more and more relevance in the next 20+ years.

What I'm saying is not that DO will overshadow MD. That would be an impossible goal. However, the investment DO is putting in building new schools and creating awareness will be what eventually start destroying the Caribbean MD completely. People will no longer feel forced to go to the Caribbean for fear that their letters will make them seem inferior. It will give them a second option inside the US. Eventually, the number of residency slots taken over by new DO students will make it a worse gamble to go into the Caribbean.

Seriously, don't be surprised when 20 years from now 1 in every 4 or every 3 physicians is a DO and the US government stops giving support to schools like SGU, AUC, and Ross through federal financial aid.

The only failing the AOA has right now is that it isn't making a push to get into more state schools (like they did with MSU or UMDNJ). If the AOA starts approaching schools in states without medical schools (Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska, etc.), the DO degree will explode.

 

[indynshrty]

As a 4th year DO student (7 more months!!!), I can say that I never had to set up any of my 3rd year rotations, just the electives and sub-internships I'll be doing this year.

My education has been great, and as many of the above posters have said, it is really student dependent rather than school dependent.

I know people in many schools (both MDs and DOs) that I can seriously say...really? you got into medical school?

Bottomline, don't hate on what you don't know or don't understand. Visit. Get to know different types of doctors (whether they be MD/DO/FMG, etc) because you will be pleasantly surprised.

And always remember, what you say now could bite you in the butt a few years later from now 🙂

Cheers!! 🙂

 

[luke587]

one of the best physicians i know is a DO, and the surgeon i shadowed last summer was a DO to, so it doesnt really make much of a difference if you have a passion for medicine thats all that matters, not whether your "DO" or MD

 

[willen101383]

DO is the wave of the future. Many people don't see that yet, but it'll be the degree that will gain more and more relevance in the next 20+ years.

What I'm saying is not that DO will overshadow MD. That would be an impossible goal. However, the investment DO is putting in building new schools and creating awareness will be what eventually start destroying the Caribbean MD completely. People will no longer feel forced to go to the Caribbean for fear that their letters will make them seem inferior. It will give them a second option inside the US. Eventually, the number of residency slots taken over by new DO students will make it a worse gamble to go into the Caribbean.

Seriously, don't be surprised when 20 years from now 1 in every 4 or every 3 physicians is a DO and the US government stops giving support to schools like SGU, AUC, and Ross through federal financial aid.

The only failing the AOA has right now is that it isn't making a push to get into more state schools (like they did with MSU or UMDNJ). If the AOA starts approaching schools in states without medical schools (Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska, etc.), the DO degree will explode.

The AOA....lol The DO degree would perhaps explode if the AOA stopped going balls to the wall in its efforts to KEEP DOs in the stone ages. Thankfully most DOs dont share the same ideas.

 

[gravitywave]

What I'm saying is not that DO will overshadow MD. That would be an impossible goal. However, the investment DO is putting in building new schools and creating awareness will be what eventually start destroying the Caribbean MD completely. People will no longer feel forced to go to the Caribbean for fear that their letters will make them seem inferior. It will give them a second option inside the US. Eventually, the number of residency slots taken over by new DO students will make it a worse gamble to go into the Caribbean.

Seriously, don't be surprised when 20 years from now 1 in every 4 or every 3 physicians is a DO and the US government stops giving support to schools like SGU, AUC, and Ross through federal financial aid.

you may well be right, but there will always be uncompetitive applicants, and there will always be offshore schools willing to take their money.

i've said this before, but: Ross is owned by DeVry, people!!!!

 

[TriagePreMed]

The AOA....lol The DO degree would perhaps explode if the AOA stopped going balls to the wall in its efforts to KEEP DOs in the stone ages. Thankfully most DOs dont share the same ideas.

Every profession has its older generation with its outdated ideals. They will die out. It will be like Psychiatry post-Freud.

 

[Siggy]

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

Remember, the entire reason that DOs exist was that MDs had a history of killing their patients.

 

[Siggy]

All DO schools are inferior in the same way that all MD schools produce hooker-killing craigslist addicts.

Come on, people!

...or branding our patients' uterus (uterui?).

 

[Hejman]

Can a DO be a real doctor?

Please, god. Don't let this escalate.

 

[Shaptown]

I have actually found osteopathic schools to be incredibly consistent with allopathic schools in just about EVERY regard. The only difference is people are too busy bashing osteopathic education to realize it is a damn fine path to becoming an excellent healthcare professional. 👍

 

[Hejman]

I have actually found osteopathic schools to be incredibly consistent with allopathic schools in just about EVERY regard. The only difference is people are too busy bashing osteopathic education to realize it is a damn fine path to becoming an excellent healthcare professional. 👍

Agree.

I actually think the misinformation about DO schools is prevalent like the plague.

One of my acquaintances recently mentioned that DO and Homeopathy were one and the same.

I pointed him to this link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

 

[Shaptown]

DO programs are easier to get into in terms of grades and MCAT. You still have to have pretty decent academic credentials though (like 3.4-3.5? and not sure about the MCAT) and you have to show involvement, volunteering, shadowing, and a little research maybe.

The DO schools aren't as good though; so, it's understandable.

Where do you get off? You are clearly a pretentious pre-med; an uninformed, immature undergraduate student with absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Would it be fair if I said you have a lesser likelihood of being a successful surgeon merely because you are a stinky Indian and have a high likelihood of dropping spiced currey into an exposed peritoneum? No, it doesn't. It is nonfactual and is not grounded within reason nor serious conversation. In fact, I sound like a biased, incompetent bigot. Much like you do oddly enough! Therefore, by the same standard, you should not belittle a degree which prepares a doctor with the EXACT same proficiency for treating medical conditions.

P.S. You will not get into medical school with that holier than thou attitude of yours. You will quickly learn to shape up, or to choose another profession. There is no room for people who jump to conclusions with wanton disregard for factual evidence.

 

[CoolWhipp]

...P.S. You will not get into medical school with that holier than thou attitude of yours. You will quickly learn to shape up, or to choose another profession. There is no room for people who jump to conclusions with wanton disregard for factual evidence.

Many students keep their pretentious attitudes throughout medical school. And, although I agree with your sentiments, let us not forget that life is a game to be played and is by no means an equal playing field. You play the game of life by a hand of cards that changes every time you get a new job and/or degree. Having a doctorate yourself, you would know that where you got your post-doc training matters. You would know that if you published in a high impact factor journal that it can be the difference between getting an investigator position or teaching at a community college. It isn't always the quality of the science that gets you published in a good journal, but what is popular at the time of publication.

So yea, even though you and I both know that there are great doctors that come from a variety of universities, it is better to just play the game and maximize your chance of success by doing what is generally believed to be better. You can fight it all day long, but it may be better that the pre-med student you quoted for being pretentious is actually in a better position than you make it out to be - regardless of his ignorance.