Educating non-OD's as regarding our extensive education

[Oculomotor]

---

Members do not see this ad.

It seems as if there are plenty of people on SDN like--ProZack, 200 UL, etc....that have no idea the type of education we have. Some of their comments border on the absurd. How can we educate these misinformed and unfortunate souls (among others) about what we are actuall trained to do? I am soooo over the idiotic comments that some of these non-OD's make on the OPTOMETRY FORUM........

 

[362.04]

By working side-by-side from the "get-go"

 

[IndianaOD]

It would be very difficult in the current educational scheme. I am convinced that most MD students are brainwashed and become MD centric; to their patient's misfortune.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

For people like those that you mentioned the quick answer is: you can't. Most of the condescending language comes from medical students and residents who think they know everything about anything just because they are in/went to medical school. This isn't meant to be insulting to medical students; 9/10 med students I meet are genuinely nice people that respect all of those in the health care system.

Unfortunately, you get some people on a high horse every now and then. But the reality is they're still sheltered from a lot of real world experience because they're still under the arms of academia where they only thing that matters is what they're doing. Don't worry, most of them eventually snap out of it once they get to the real world. Notice that it's rare that you actually get a practicing MD coming over here to throw insults.

I think the greater issue isn't educating other health care professionals, but educating the public instead. This is where organizations like the AOA that represent optometry have failed miserably. When was the last time you saw ads preaching regular eye care? I don't think I've ever seen one other than a quarter page ad in a magazine behind all of the full page supplement ads that promise me huge muscle mass and an extra 3 inches of penis size. I've asked the AOA about regular eye care advertising on television and radio and never get a response. Keep up the great work 🙄
Just gotta do it one patient at a time.

 

[fonziefonz]

I think the AOA has done a crappy job about getting the message out to the public about how extensive our training is. I guess we got to educate the public ourselves.

 

[KHE]

It seems as if there are plenty of people on SDN like--ProZack, 200 UL, etc....that have no idea the type of education we have. Some of their comments border on the absurd. How can we educate these misinformed and unfortunate souls (among others) about what we are actuall trained to do? I am soooo over the idiotic comments that some of these non-OD's make on the OPTOMETRY FORUM........

I can't say for certain what the best way of doing this is, but I can say with absolute certainty that a whole bunch of heated and charged up rhetoric on a forum like this isn't going to win people to your cause. You're gonna want to dial all of it way down.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It seems as if there are plenty of people on SDN like--ProZack, 200 UL, etc....that have no idea the type of education we have. Some of their comments border on the absurd. How can we educate these misinformed and unfortunate souls (among others) about what we are actuall trained to do? I am soooo over the idiotic comments that some of these non-OD's make on the OPTOMETRY FORUM........

Easy: get involved in our education. As this forum shows, no amount of talking will convince most MDs/students/residents that y'all are as well trained as you are. I don't know exactly how you would do this though. You could try to get in as a lecturer for eye histo/path/physical diagnosis. Usually we get a pathologist and ophthalmologist, respectively for the last two, to do this. However, in my first year we had ocular histo done by a DVM. No offense meant, as he was a good lecturer, but you guys can do better. Heck, you could offer to do a clinical correlation for neuro. If you're anywhere near a medical school, you can also try to set yourself up as an elective/shadowing site for students.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

It seems as if there are plenty of people on SDN like--ProZack, 200 UL, etc....that have no idea the type of education we have. Some of their comments border on the absurd. How can we educate these misinformed and unfortunate souls (among others) about what we are actuall trained to do? I am soooo over the idiotic comments that some of these non-OD's make on the OPTOMETRY FORUM........

Just as your SDN signature clearly already states.. You want to be a Neurosurgeon as an optometrists and you don't want to have to actually attend medical school to do it. You don't need to.. We are all stupid. We were just simply uninformed that optometry school trains you to do everything. We get it.

Please not another (OD = Ophthalmologist) or (OD = Physician and Surgeon thread)!

 

[IndianaOD]

Just as your SDN signature clearly already states.. You want to be a Neurosurgeon as an optometrists and you don't want to have to actually attend medical school to do it. You don't need to.. We are all stupid. We were just simply uninformed that optometry school trains you to do everything. We get it.

Please not another (OD = Ophthalmologist) or (OD = Physician and Surgeon thread)!

Dude, why are you still camped out in the OD forums? Your title resident is also misleading.

 

[362.04]

Dude, why are you still camped out in the OD forums? Your title resident is also misleading.

Do you know something we don't? 🙂

 

[200UL]

Most Eye MDs have a pretty good sense of the abilities of the optometrist around them. During ophthalmology residency there is significant exposure. Many/most academic centers have several optometrists on the faculty. Most VAs in this country have optometrists on faculty - working closely with EyeMD residents. Residents also frequently handle calls/referrals from optometrists. Additionally, once out in practice, both work closely together to get patients the care they need.

In summary, one (OD or Eye MD) can say anything they want about the quality of training they receive. What counts is how they manage patients in the real world setting.

 

[aphistis]

Dude, why are you still camped out in the OD forums? Your title resident is also misleading.

Stop using dentists as yardsticks and we'd be gone before you knew it. 😉

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Dude, why are you still camped out in the OD forums?

Well as aphistis has pointed out.. some of you guys keep dragging us into your argument. Leave us out of this.. and we will stop hanging out in here.

Deal?

Your title resident is also misleading.

I am a dentist, a resident, and a medical student. How am I misleading anyone?

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

It seems as if there are plenty of people on SDN like--ProZack, 200 UL, etc....that have no idea the type of education we have. Some of their comments border on the absurd. How can we educate these misinformed and unfortunate souls (among others) about what we are actuall trained to do? I am soooo over the idiotic comments that some of these non-OD's make on the OPTOMETRY FORUM........

Not to jump in but if this is your ultimate question and not a lead on, AOA can do more advertisement. One of the aspects that I am fustrated about in pharmacy is lack of APHA advertisement in educating the public about the role of the pharmacist.

However surprisngly, Walgreens and CVS, drug companies like Alli, and American Hospital pharmacists association have done a good job in raising the awareness of pharmacy to the public through advertisments.

The Wags and CVS ads were "fill your prescriptions at one pharmacy" and the one where CVS shows a "mom nurturing her children from a cold and then putting on a lab coat going into work as a pharmacist". There was also one from Target about how a pharmacist invented the new prescription bottle with bigger letterings and color codes as one of the ways to reduce medication errors.

The Alli commercial was a pharmacist who lost weight on the drug and telling how easy it is to recommend that drug to patients who come in.

The American hospital pharmacist association told the public on radio in NY area to ask their pharmacists on any questions that they have.

Now, I don't know if it would educate non OD people on your extensive schooling. However for me, why does it matter if they know it or not as long as they know what you are capable of (which they do).

 

[gochi]

Advertisements can only do so much. Pharmacy, relative to Optometry is perceptually more demanding to the consumer, because it basically assures, in their mind, biological longevity. People should get their eyes checked, but they don't, because they don't feel as if something is effecting their well being.

I saw, screw AOA and the new schools, as well as the public. If these problems were to be fixed, they should have been by now. Students and OD's have to suffer, whether it maybe due to high tuition fees or odd salary rates, because a) the public is STUPID and b) AOA is concerned with their own welfare.

Stating that the public is misinformed is ultimatley an excuse. They are informed, but they just don't choose to care, because they are infact stupid. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I suggest we move on to shut down the opening of new schools, as well as progress towards surgical practice, which will as a consequence, diminish the a) and b) issues.

~Sorry for the long post btw. 😳

 

[KHE]

Most Eye MDs have a pretty good sense of the abilities of the optometrist around them. During ophthalmology residency there is significant exposure. Many/most academic centers have several optometrists on the faculty. Most VAs in this country have optometrists on faculty - working closely with EyeMD residents. Residents also frequently handle calls/referrals from optometrists. Additionally, once out in practice, both work closely together to get patients the care they need.

In summary, one (OD or Eye MD) can say anything they want about the quality of training they receive. What counts is how they manage patients in the real world setting.

I would not judge optometry or optometric training based on the optometrists you work with in a VA setting or in an academic environment. Neither of these is a "real world" setting.

 

[Oculomotor]

Hey Aphistis,

The DMD/DDS degree program is the best degree for comparison and contrast that is available with the OD program.......

Both Programs (Dentistry versus Optometry) are:

1) Clinical Doctorates (4 yrs of training after undergrad)
2) Produce autonomous practitioners who can prescribe pharmaceuticals independently (not supervised prescribing like PA's, NP, etc...)
4) Have a limited scope of practice, visual system for OD and Oral Cavity for General Dentists.
5) Not considered physicians by most in the MD world.
6) At certain schools like mine take classes like Gross Anatomy, Physiology, Pharmacology, Pathology, etc... together.....

How many more parellels would you like my friend? Or is the real truth of the matter that you , Millesevert, and other denitists on here feel that Optometrists are inferior to you ergo you don't like being compared to them? I believe this is the real reasoning behind your dislike of being compared. You just wont admit it to be PC on this forum. All due respect.

 

[200UL]

I would not judge optometry or optometric training based on the optometrists you work with in a VA setting or in an academic environment. Neither of these is a "real world" setting.

Give me a break. So are you saying the optometrists we work with (academic center/VA) are the weak/less qualified optometrists? Are the optometrists that call us in the middle of the night with a perforating corneal ulcer the less qualified ones. Maybe the optometrists that send a glaucoma referral to our practice are weak? My point is EyeMD/DOs work closely with optometry in our training and in the "real world."

On a less serious note, maybe you should send Oculomotor on the PR campaign you speak of. His cool, calm, professional demeanor is sure to win hearts and minds.

 

[IndianaOD]

Hey Aphistis,

The DMD/DDS degree program is the best degree for comparison and contrast that is available with the OD program.......

Both Programs (Dentistry versus Optometry) are:

1) Clinical Doctorates (4 yrs of training after undergrad)
2) Produce autonomous practitioners who can prescribe pharmaceuticals independently (not supervised prescribing like PA's, NP, etc...)
4) Have a limited scope of practice, visual system for OD and Oral Cavity for General Dentists.
5) Not considered physicians by most in the MD world.
6) At certain schools like mine take classes like Gross Anatomy, Physiology, Pharmacology, Pathology, etc... together.....

How many more parellels would you like my friend? Or is the real truth of the matter that you , Millesevert, and other denitists on here feel that Optometrists are inferior to you ergo you don't like being compared to them? I believe this is the real reasoning behind your dislike of being compared. You just wont admit it to be PC on this forum. All due respect.

Agreed, dentistry is the closest thing to optometry that is out there. Its also a great example of how medicine suppresses the profession of optometry because there is $$ involved. Largely MDs don't care about dentists who have similar training to ODs because they don't compete for $$.

 

[IndianaOD]

Give me a break. So are you saying the optometrists we work with (academic center/VA) are the weak/less qualified optometrists? Are the optometrists that call us in the middle of the night with a perforating corneal ulcer the less qualified ones. Maybe the optometrists that send a glaucoma referral to our practice are weak? My point is EyeMD/DOs work closely with optometry in our training and in the "real world."

On a less serious note, maybe you should send Oculomotor on the PR campaign you speak of. His cool, calm, professional demeanor is sure to win hearts and minds.

The only OMDs who should get OD glaucoma referrals are Glaucoma Sub specialists. Unfortunatley many ODs referr out everything. I guess I would call that kind of weak.

 

[200UL]

So I think I get it. Optometry needs to start educating itself how great its training is.

Couldn't this be incoorporated into the schools? The "weak" optemetrists, who don't realize how qualified they are, will eventually retire.

 

[KHE]

Give me a break. So are you saying the optometrists we work with (academic center/VA) are the weak/less qualified optometrists? Are the optometrists that call us in the middle of the night with a perforating corneal ulcer the less qualified ones. Maybe the optometrists that send a glaucoma referral to our practice are weak? My point is EyeMD/DOs work closely with optometry in our training and in the "real world."

On a less serious note, maybe you should send Oculomotor on the PR campaign you speak of. His cool, calm, professional demeanor is sure to win hearts and minds.

No, I'm suggesting that most of the time, optometrists who work in academic ophthalmology departments are normally severely limited in their practice to the traditional optometric areas of contact lenses and low vision.

As such, you aren't seeing what they could be capable of in the non-traditionally optometric areas. Because of this, I don't anticipate that you're getting real world exposure to the skills optometrists can and do possess.

If you have optometrists on staff independently managing glaucoma and diabetic cases, then I think that that is a rare situation indeed and I applaud it.. However, in the "real world" it happens all the time on a routine basis.

On a MORE serious note, I believe Oculomotor is a lost cause and is destined to do far more harm to his cause than good.

 

[eyestrain]

On a MORE serious note, I believe Oculomotor is a lost cause and is destined to do far more harm to his cause than good.

Agreed. To all non-ODs on this thread, please don't judge us based on anything Oculomotor says.

 

[qwopty99]

Why are some students here so obsessed and unsatisifed with the public perception of optometrists? What exactly MORE do these folks want?


Why are these folks embarassed to be treated as optometrists?


If you want to be treated as an MD, you should go to medical school.



If you want to be perpetually treated as someone "outstanding" because of your career, then be the best optometrist you can be.

 

[Oculomotor]

"Agreed. To all non-ODs on this thread, please don't judge us based on anything Oculomotor says."

Sure eyestrain🙄, they should because unlike you folks like myself, indiana OD, and some others have the balls to have an ORIGINAL opinion and tell it how it is versus criticize every original idea on here like you do.

And KHE, acutually I have dozens of friends in the REAL WORLD who are optometrists and agree with about 80% of what I am saying---I worked with some of them. I have helped rally political support for optometry and I am legislatively active sooo technically we are on the same team.....In the REAL WORLD I am 90% more reserved than on SDN because I understand you have to be diplomatic. On here----I don't.

 

[qwopty99]

Why don't you answer these questions, and comment on the statements:

Why are some students here so obsessed and unsatisifed with the public perception of optometrists? What exactly MORE do these folks want?


Why are these folks embarassed to be treated as optometrists?


If you want to be treated as an MD, you should go to medical school.



If you want to be perpetually treated as someone "outstanding" because of your career, then be the best optometrist you can be.

 

[IndianaOD]

Agreed. To all non-ODs on this thread, please don't judge us based on anything Oculomotor says.

I can't fault him/her on being passionate about optometry. If more ODs were we wouldn't be overrun with corporate and other ills. Its an online public forum, anyone who takes anything seriously has problems.

 

[eyestrain]

"Agreed. To all non-ODs on this thread, please don't judge us based on anything Oculomotor says."

Sure eyestrain🙄, they should because unlike you folks like myself, indiana OD, and some others have the balls to have an ORIGINAL opinion and tell it how it is versus criticize every original idea on here like you do.

It's not necessarily the ideas that I have problems with. Even though I don't always agree, I have no problem with you bringing them up. However, it becomes a problem when your hubris starts to run wild and every post reads like a childish rant against anyone and everyone who's not an optometrist (and some that are).

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Most Eye MDs have a pretty good sense of the abilities of the optometrist around them. During ophthalmology residency there is significant exposure. Many/most academic centers have several optometrists on the faculty. Most VAs in this country have optometrists on faculty - working closely with EyeMD residents. Residents also frequently handle calls/referrals from optometrists. Additionally, once out in practice, both work closely together to get patients the care they need.

In summary, one (OD or Eye MD) can say anything they want about the quality of training they receive. What counts is how they manage patients in the real world setting.

I don't think its the ophtho folks that ODs are worried about. Most of them, once in the real world, work just fine with you guys. Its the other MDs that, I suspect, is what the OP was talking about. You know, internists, family practice, peds. These are the ones I talked about in my earlier post.

 

[KHE]

And KHE, acutually I have dozens of friends in the REAL WORLD who are optometrists and agree with about 80% of what I am saying---I worked with some of them. I have helped rally political support for optometry and I am legislatively active sooo technically we are on the same team.....In the REAL WORLD I am 90% more reserved than on SDN because I understand you have to be diplomatic. On here----I don't.

On here is where you should be MORE diplomatic. On here, you have the opportunity to help shape the minds of not only ophthalmology residents, but other members of the health care team, both physicians and non-physicians. SDN has a large audience? Why would you want to alienate them with your needlessly overcharged rhetoric?

 

[aphistis]

Hey Aphistis,

The DMD/DDS degree program is the best degree for comparison and contrast that is available with the OD program.......

Both Programs (Dentistry versus Optometry) are:

1) Clinical Doctorates (4 yrs of training after undergrad)
2) Produce autonomous practitioners who can prescribe pharmaceuticals independently (not supervised prescribing like PA's, NP, etc...)
4) Have a limited scope of practice, visual system for OD and Oral Cavity for General Dentists.
5) Not considered physicians by most in the MD world.
6) At certain schools like mine take classes like Gross Anatomy, Physiology, Pharmacology, Pathology, etc... together.....

How many more parellels would you like my friend? Or is the real truth of the matter that you , Millesevert, and other denitists on here feel that Optometrists are inferior to you ergo you don't like being compared to them? I believe this is the real reasoning behind your dislike of being compared. You just wont admit it to be PC on this forum. All due respect.

Believe what you wish.

 

[hello07]

Like I said in another posted- Oculomotor has a Narcississtic Personality Disorder. I am not a psychiatrist, psychotherapist or psychologist but he has some mental disorder. This is not a joke. His stupidity posting comments as aa "know it all" is staggering. He is an optometry student riding his white horse really high.
For the love of humanity, we are optometrists. We play a valuable role in helping people see clearer, better or whatever you want to call it. Yes, we treat using topicals, orals BUT geeeeeeee stop thinking so highly of yourself like you are going to become the next greatest neurosurgeon working at MD Anderson, Duke, Columbia or Mayo.
Oculomotor- you are delusional man! Besides NPD, you must have a inferiority? or superiority? complex. I don't know which one it is.
You really believe no matter how great an optometrist you become you and ONLY YOU WILL CHANGE SOCIETY'S PERCEPTION OF US?
Wake up dude.........................

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Hey Aphistis,

Both Programs (Dentistry versus Optometry) are:

1) Clinical Doctorates (4 yrs of training after undergrad)
2) Produce autonomous practitioners who can prescribe pharmaceuticals independently (not supervised prescribing like PA's, NP, etc...)
4) Have a limited scope of practice, visual system for OD and Oral Cavity for General Dentists.
5) Not considered physicians by most in the MD world.
6) At certain schools like mine take classes like Gross Anatomy, Physiology, Pharmacology, Pathology, etc... together.....

1) So is Chiropractic, Naturopathic, Oriental medicine, etc. Are we all alike because we went to school for 4 years and our degrees have the word "doctor" in them? 🙄
2) again.. see above practitioners. Its ok as long as you practice within your scope of training. Even as a dentist I shouldn't be prescribing drugs to regulate systemic problems of my patients, that is the responsibility of their family doctor/GP.
3) Don't know what your 3rd point was because you left one out.
4) Yes... you are correct. We both have a limited scope of practice, hence the term allied health professionals which we both are. Even after I obtain my medical degree, I my practice will be limited to the scope of my specialty.
5) I don't think dentists or optometrists are considered "physicians" ANYWHERE in the world. As a dentist I have never used the word physician to refer to myself and I never will. I would hope that optometrists would feel the same. If my optometrist told me, "trust me... I am your primary care physician". I would run out the door.
6) So do nurses, science students, researchers, Naturopaths, physical therapists, etc, etc, etc. Just because you took some classes for 2 years in medical sciences and dissected cadavers (PT programs do this as well) doesn't make you a "physician".

Have any more "parallels" you wish to offer?

You know most professions (mine included) have interviews and licensing exams to protect the public from practitioners such as yourself who think they can do everything to the point they place people at risk. I really don't think you are a good image or representative for your profession. I'm sorry, I know you disagree with me. But so be it. As asphistis put it.. "Believe what you wish".

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Oculomotor has a Narcississtic Personality Disorder.

he has some mental disorder. This is not a joke. His stupidity posting comments as aa "know it all" is staggering. He is an optometry student riding his white horse really high.

For the love of humanity, we are optometrists.

Oculomotor- you are delusional man!

Besides NPD, you must have a inferiority? or superiority? complex.

Occulomotor.. even your colleagues have this opinion of you. Wake up man.

 

[Oculomotor]

LOL!! Hello O7 is not a colleague of mine and never will be.....He/She is a jerk who disrespects optometry students and talks down to them. Everyone of the students I know that post on here thinks Hello 07 is a jerk. Where did you get your psych degree Hello 07? Hmmmmm Your opinion is meaningless to me so just go away please. You think just because you are an optometrist that I am going to accept your imature and ridiculous attitude towards my profession? Whatever......You need to talk to a shrink about your need to put down 24 yr old optometry students on SDN to boost your fragile ego. ( I can recommend a good PsyD for you.)

KHE, you make a good point--I will try to tone it down in my future posts but I still believe in the "shooting from the hip attitude" rather than sugarcoating.

Millisevert, I will believe what I wish.......thank you very much!

Word up......

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Where did you get your psych degree Hello 07? Hmmmmm

hello07 actually stated that very clearly that they didn't claim to be a psychiatrist. However, they and others are simply commenting on the nature of your posts. Many of us are in agreement.

You think just because you are an optometrist that I am going to accept your imature and ridiculous attitude towards my profession? Whatever............

I would hope that you would consider an optometrist's opinions on the profession of optometry. He/She is already a part of the profession and is practicing. Something you are not.

Millisevert, I will believe what I wish.......thank you very much!

We all know you will. 🙄

 

[Oculomotor]

ooooookay dude! 🙄

 

[Oculomotor]

Now back to the topic and away from the tangent. I talked to some OD's at the AOA and they said that the infantSee program has done a good job in advertising the profession in a positive light.....Any OD's on this forum participate in infantSee or any other program?

 

[gochi]

This is quite amusing.

 

[JMU07]

Everyone of the students I know that post on here thinks Hello 07 is a jerk.

Not true.

Oculomotor, you're entitled to your opinions just as everyone else is. But when so many people are asking you to chill out or think about what you're saying, maybe you should just take a few minutes to think about what you post here... just a thought.

 

[cpw]

this thread has degenerated completely. Closing.