Efle's MCAT 2015 to Old MCAT Percentile Comparison/Conversion Tables

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Why in the world would you not apply to his school? o_O
Would you invite me to interview?

Although, I don't know if efle is naughty here in the boards.
Naughty people get banned. But I like to argue, and have expressed opinions not totally PC in the premed world, such as there being huge disparities in rigor/difficulty between universities.

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Hey elfe, I like the OP thanks! Helps me understand my practice scores more!
 
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Well, ****. Taken down for now. Guess that removes any remaining anonymity I would've had, which is not much considering how I'll probably be the only person applying out of Wustl with my old MCAT next cycle anyways.

Thx

Wish I knew @gyngyn's school so I could skip applying to it...

How did you fall for the old "forgot-to-wipe-out-metadata" trick? :p
 
Would you invite me to interview?


Naughty people get banned. But I like to argue, and have expressed opinions not totally PC in the premed world, such as there being huge disparities in rigor/difficulty between universities.

Lol let's be real that's not why you wouldn't be invited to interview. You come across as exceedingly brash, even if that's not your actual personality in-person. Anonymity does that.

Everyone is on their best behavior in an interview setting, it's natural for anyone to not want to be connect the interview identity to the "blowing off steam on the internet" identity.
 
Lol let's be real that's not why you wouldn't be invited to interview. You come across as exceedingly brash, even if that's not your actual personality in-person. Anonymity does that.

Everyone is on their best behavior in an interview setting, it's natural for anyone to not want to be connect the interview identity to the "blowing off steam on the internet" identity.
Very true, supposed to keep the god complexes secret until post-acceptance right
 
@efle probationary status! Look at you! So proud of you...really I am!
 
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Of course I would :) You definitely have the drive and aptitude. If I were an adcom, I'd like to hear how you'd use your skills to help sick people.

First and only question for @efle :

How do you feel school rigor should be taken into account during the medical school interview process?

If answer is "should matter a lot" ==> not PC ==> reject

If answer is "should not be taken into account" ==> someone who lies ==> reject
 
@efle probationary status! Look at you! So proud of you...really I am!
Old news. Got it for this
Previously for this
No regrets

First and only question for @efle :

How do you feel school rigor should be taken into account during the medical school interview process?

If answer is "should matter a lot" ==> not PC ==> reject

If answer is "should not be taken into account" ==> someone who lies ==> reject

I think it's more the elitism than the topic itself that would get me in trouble
 
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Old news. Got it for this
Previously for this
No regrets



I think it's more the elitism than the topic itself that would get me in trouble
Haha that chem debate cracked me up! Seriously?!
Yea you seem to have a target on your back bro, ducking and dodging haha
 
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But there is no need to make sloppy conversions like 508 -> 30 when you can just put up all the ceilings on a percentile scale. Is a 508 near/heavily overlapping with a 30? Yes. Many of the people who would have gotten a 30 will now get 508s. Are they equivalent? Not quite, as the 508 is more frequently out scored.

Your analogy doesn't work because its basedon raw score bins. Its more like saying prof A gives the middle two quartiles X and prof B gives the middle third Y. There is overlap but they cannot be said to interconvert ceiling percentiles

I'm tempted to take percentile rank comparisons between new and old MCAT scores with a grain of salt. My question for you is--how certain can anyone be that admissions committees will be primarily using percentile rankings to compare new MCAT scores to old MCAT scores? Just because the AAMC states it on their website doesn't mean admissions officers are going to follow that to a T. I wouldn't be at all surprised if admissions committees look at the new section with skepticism. If one scores an equivalent 35 on the old 3 sections of the 2015 MCAT, and a 10 on the new section, that person could potentially be compared with old MCAT 35's. For example, while a 513-514 correlates to the 89th-91st percentile (or an old 32-33 using percentile ranks), if one of those 513-514 scores had a ~35 on the old 3 sections of the 2015 MCAT (with a ~10 on the new section), that could be looked at by an admissions officer as an old 35 (96th percentile). It could perhaps be even better, as the candidate with the new MCAT has a 4th section score on top of the base 35.
 
Need advice:

Should I apply this cycle or go for a retake if I have a 71-81% preliminary and a 3.8 gpa? I have good EC's as well.
 
I'm tempted to take percentile rank comparisons between new and old MCAT scores with a grain of salt. My question for you is--how certain can anyone be that admissions committees will be primarily using percentile rankings to compare new MCAT scores to old MCAT scores? Just because the AAMC states it on their website doesn't mean admissions officers are going to follow that to a T. I wouldn't be at all surprised if admissions committees look at the new section with skepticism. If one scores an equivalent 35 on the old 3 sections of the 2015 MCAT, and a 10 on the new section, that person could potentially be compared with old MCAT 35's. For example, while a 513-514 correlates to the 89th-91st percentile (or an old 32-33 using percentile ranks), if one of those 513-514 scores had a ~35 on the old 3 sections of the 2015 MCAT (with a ~10 on the new section), that could be looked at by an admissions officer as an old 35 (96th percentile). It could perhaps be even better, as the candidate with the new MCAT has a 4th section score on top of the base 35.
AAMC actually officially discourages comparing by percentiles. Its not clear why though, other than because they believe more of the 50-80th percentile range should be getting into Med schools. They suggest treating everyone past the middle of the bell as capable, since mid 20s on the old test predicted passing steps at a high rate, but there's no reason Med schools should stop preferring 99th percentile to 60th...

Anyways I speak of percentile comparisons because several of the adcoms on these boards have stated thats how their schools will be handling it. I suspect you're right about the new section being less useful as a predictor, just like verbal used to be less powerful than PS/BS for step one correlation.
 
Need advice:

Should I apply this cycle or go for a retake if I have a 71-81% preliminary and a 3.8 gpa? I have good EC's as well.
Post in WAMC. Do you already have rec letters lined up? A personal statement written? Your app will start to be damagingly late if you don't have everything ready to submit in the next couple weeks.
 
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AAMC actually officially discourages comparing by percentiles. Its not clear why though, other than because they believe more of the 50-80th percentile range should be getting into Med schools. They suggest treating everyone past the middle of the bell as capable, since mid 20s on the old test predicted passing steps at a high rate, but there's no reason Med schools should stop preferring 99th percentile to 60th...

Anyways I speak of percentile comparisons because several of the adcoms on these boards have stated thats how their schools will be handling it. I suspect you're right about the new section being less useful as a predictor, just like verbal used to be less powerful than PS/BS for step one correlation.
"Because the MCAT2015 scores are new to admissions committee members, they use the percentile ranks for the new scores to see how individual applicants compare to others who took the new exam."
https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/faq/421680/applications-with-different-mcat-scores.html
 
"Because the MCAT2015 scores are new to admissions committee members, they use the percentile ranks for the new scores to see how individual applicants compare to others who took the new exam."
https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/faq/421680/applications-with-different-mcat-scores.html
See bolded, they still refuse to admit that you can compare percentiles across exams - as if the median has changed capabilities because they changed scoring system! I was going with https://www.aamc.org/students/download/378098/data/mcat2015scorescaleguide.pdf where it says:
"direct comparisons of MCAT scores for applicants who take different versions of the exam will be impossible"

Why AAMC?? Why is it impossible?? If the test-taking population has not significantly changed this year, than neither has the value of a given percentile!
 
See bolded, they still refuse to admit that you can compare percentiles across exams - as if the median has changed capabilities because they changed scoring system! I was going with https://www.aamc.org/students/download/378098/data/mcat2015scorescaleguide.pdf where it says:
"direct comparisons of MCAT scores for applicants who take different versions of the exam will be impossible"

Why AAMC?? Why is it impossible?? If the test-taking population has not significantly changed this year, than neither has the value of a given percentile!
You will get no argument out of me on this one!
 
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It is difficult to understand how an adcom will use the psych/soc percentage. It is already clear from the adcoms on here that someone with an in-between number like myself (516 is in the middle of 34-35). Will my high psych make it seem better than a typical 34 or will they just ignore it unless it is 97+ or very low?
And if they take each section separetely by percentile and remove psych/soc I would actually be equivalent to a 36. (97%Chem/Phys=13, 87% Verbal=11, 93%Bio=12)
 
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It is difficult to understand how an adcom will use the psych/soc percentage. It is already clear from the adcoms on here that someone with an in-between number like myself (516 is in the middle of 34-35). Will my high psych make it seem better than a typical 34 or will they just ignore it unless it is 97+ or very low?
Having reviewed content from all these subsections, I was surprised to find this one formulated questions in a manner much more consistent with the practice of medicine than either of the science sections.
 
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Having reviewed content from all these subsections, I was surprised to find this one formulated questions in a manner much more consistent with the practice of medicine than either of the science sections.
What does this mean? I was under the impression nothing about the MCAT translates past standard test taking ability and critical thinking. Or is the SDN adage that a high MCAT does not a good physician make, no longer apply with psych/socio...?
 
What does this mean? I was under the impression nothing about the MCAT translates past standard test taking ability and critical thinking. Or is the SDN adage that a high MCAT does not a good physician make, no longer apply with psych/socio...?
I am merely reporting that my review of the physics and chemistry questions revealed an in-depth assessment of topics entirely unused in medicine. This is nothing new. The scores are still important even if the content is not.
 
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I am merely reporting that my review of the physics and chemistry questions revealed an in-depth assessment of topics entirely unused in medicine. This is nothing new.
Ah, but in psych the questions are things a doctor might actually face? Do they teach lots of similar psych in med school curriculums?
 
Ah, but in psych the questions are things a doctor might actually face? Do they teach lots of similar psych in med school curriculums?
Actually, yes. The psycho-social context of health and disease is something we teach and is as important as anything else we learn.
 
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Actually, yes. The psycho-social context of health and disease is something we teach and is as important as anything else we learn.
Interesting, soon the only physics covered will be optics for vision and some fluid mechs for circulation, and eventually we will just become the European system where you learn only MD-relevant stuff beginning right after highschool!
 
Interesting, soon the only physics covered will be optics for vision and some fluid mechs for circulation, and eventually we will just become the European system where you learn only MD-relevant stuff beginning right after highschool!
As long as you have distinguished yourself in your chosen field of study, competence in the sciences is really all that is required. The non-cognitive competencies are the ones that really seem to make or break one in this field.
Given what we expect out of physicians in this country, a liberal arts university education will continue to be an important basis for selection.
 
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As I have reported previously, when AMCAS tested out the new MCAT on medical students, there was a good correlation on their Psych/Sociology scores and how the students ended up doing in their Neuroscience, Epidemiology and and one other course that I'm blanking out on!



What does this mean? I was under the impression nothing about the MCAT translates past standard test taking ability and critical thinking. Or is the SDN adage that a high MCAT does not a good physician make, no longer apply with psych/socio...?
 
As I have reported previously, when AMCAS tested out the new MCAT on medical students, there was a good correlation on their Psych/Sociology scores and how the students ended up doing in their Neuroscience, Epidemiology and and one other course that I'm blanking out on!
And what did a good CARS score correlate with? The likelihood of being an English major?
 
Assuming it is similar to the old V it should actually have about a 0.4 correlation to step 1 performance!
Edit: ah, nevermind. Good old Wikipedia.

That correlation is still the lowest/worst predictor.
 
Edit: ah, nevermind. Good old Wikipedia.

That correlation is still the lowest/worst predictor.
It's significant and contributes to the composite correlation though ! And I'd guess it is what correlates most with IQ, something that may be desirable outside of step performance
 
It's significant and contributes to the composite correlation though ! And I'd guess it is what correlates most with IQ, something that may be desirable outside of step performance
I disagree. My LSAT score is within 3% of my IQ percentile, but my CARS is like, 50 percentiles away lol. As much as pre-meds would love for their verbal/CARS scores to qualify them as geniuses, there is really no reason to believe that there's any correlation there.


Good reading comprehension...always a plus.
Disagree again. My score on the LSAT, which is actually called "Reading Comprehension", is in the top 2%. I don't think anyone could wisely argue that the new MCAT CARS tests reading comprehension better than the LSAT.

So then what? My CARS score was a fluke?
I missed a passage? Possible.
I just didn't study for it? True.
Or CARS is really not indicative of anything? I believe so.

My issue with CARS is that it's filled with passages that rely on poor/no evidence and faulty assumptions, and you're supposed to make inferences based on that. You can get better by studying for it so I really don't believe it's indicative of anyone's intelligence, just their willingness to spend time doing MCAT CARS passages.
 
I have to agree that the VR section is the most perverse, given that people with high GPAs plus high Bio and PS scores, and who speak perfect English, can still bomb the VR section!

I disagree. My LSAT score is within 3% of my IQ percentile, but my CARS is like, 50 percentiles away lol. As much as pre-meds would love for their verbal/CARS scores to qualify them as geniuses, there is really no reason to believe that there's any correlation there.



Disagree again. My score on the LSAT, which is actually called "Reading Comprehension", is in the top 2%. I don't think anyone could wisely argue that the new MCAT CARS tests reading comprehension better than the LSAT.

So then what? My CARS score was a fluke?
I missed a passage? Possible.
I just didn't study for it? True.
Or CARS is really not indicative of anything? I believe so.

My issue with CARS is that it's filled with passages that rely on poor/no evidence and faulty assumptions, and you're supposed to make inferences based on that. You can get better by studying for it so I really don't believe it's indicative of anyone's intelligence, just their willingness to spend time doing MCAT CARS passages.
 
Better watch yourself Goro lest you have a very long term probation slapped on you undermining all your posts
Goro doesn't get snarky with me....often :)


I have to agree that the VR section is the most perverse, given that people with high GPAs plus high Bio and PS scores, and who speak perfect English, can still bomb the VR section!
Like me!!
 
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I disagree. My LSAT score is within 3% of my IQ percentile, but my CARS is like, 50 percentiles away lol. As much as pre-meds would love for their verbal/CARS scores to qualify them as geniuses, there is really no reason to believe that there's any correlation there.



Disagree again. My score on the LSAT, which is actually called "Reading Comprehension", is in the top 2%. I don't think anyone could wisely argue that the new MCAT CARS tests reading comprehension better than the LSAT.

So then what? My CARS score was a fluke?
I missed a passage? Possible.
I just didn't study for it? True.
Or CARS is really not indicative of anything? I believe so.

My issue with CARS is that it's filled with passages that rely on poor/no evidence and faulty assumptions, and you're supposed to make inferences based on that. You can get better by studying for it so I really don't believe it's indicative of anyone's intelligence, just their willingness to spend time doing MCAT CARS passages.
1) very different populations taking MCAT vs LSAT. LSAT takers are not required to survive a 75% weed out through classes like Ochem with strong grades in order to sit for the test. Would not surprise me if 98th percentile LSAT was far from equivalent to 98th MCAT (again based on the testing populations not on the test itself).

2) Reading comp is different from verbal reasoning.

3) Verb is very resistant to improvement from studying. PS/BS aren't.
 
I have to agree that the VR section is the most perverse, given that people with high GPAs plus high Bio and PS scores, and who speak perfect English, can still bomb the VR section!
Have you ever taken a practice MCAT? Totally makes sense to me that some people could be science whizzes and speak English but struggle to nail verbal. It isolates reasoning > knowledge/experience and a very different type of reasoning than the symbolic manipulations of physical science!
 
1) very different populations taking MCAT vs LSAT. LSAT takers are not required to survive a 75% weed out through classes like Ochem with strong grades in order to sit for the test. Would not surprise me if 98th percentile LSAT was far from equivalent to 98th MCAT (again based on the testing populations not on the test itself).

2) Reading comp is different from verbal reasoning.

3) Verb is very resistant to improvement from studying. PS/BS aren't.

1. Eh, I took the MCAT a long time ago (after my sophomore year of college) and my verbal score was on par with my LSAT score. Too bad that score's expired (@Goro do schools still see this score?). Further, those taking the LSAT are more likely to be well-versed in Reading Comprehension.
2. It actually isn't. The titles may imply that they're different, but they're very similar. The only major differences are that the LSAT gives you less time, the answer choices are more similar to each other, and you have to use logical reasoning to eliminate seemingly correct answer choices.
3. I think this varies by person. Different people have different peaks and it's not difficult to improve your verbal score if your baseline is far from your peak.
 
Nope, just COMLEX and USMLE.

Have you ever taken a practice MCAT? Totally makes sense to me that some people could be science whizzes and speak English but struggle to nail verbal. It isolates reasoning > knowledge/experience and a very different type of reasoning than the symbolic manipulations of physical science!


Yes.
Too bad that score's expired (@Goro do schools still see this score?).
 
Have you ever taken a practice MCAT? Totally makes sense to me that some people could be science whizzes and speak English but struggle to nail verbal. It isolates reasoning > knowledge/experience and a very different type of reasoning than the symbolic manipulations of physical science!
You're arguing that CARS relies on reasoning? The large majority of the questions rely on identifying the main idea of the passage, which is usually an argument based on very faulty reasoning.
 
1. Eh, I took the MCAT a long time ago (after my sophomore year of college) and my verbal score was on par with my LSAT score. Too bad that score's expired (@Goro do schools still see this score?). Further, those taking the LSAT are more likely to be well-versed in Reading Comprehension.
2. It actually isn't. The titles may imply that they're different, but they're very similar. The only major differences are that the LSAT gives you less time, the answer choices are more similar to each other, and you have to use logical reasoning to eliminate seemingly correct answer choices.
3. I think this varies by person. Different people have different peaks and it's not difficult to improve your verbal score if your baseline is far from your peak.
1) It is still visible yes
2) It's different. Reading comp is whether you understood / caught something in the package, where there's a one step "here's the part that makes answer A correct". Verbal reasoning is like what you see in phil, where you start with something stated in the passage and then have to go a few steps down a logic chain (what might the author say under these different conditions...). The LSAT is more of high speed comprehension, V is more logic chains like you describe as picking out the best inferences.
3) I'm just stating wha's in the data, the V is most resistant to improvement. Of course there will always be individual exceptions.

THANK SWEET BABY JESUS IN THE BLUE SKY
Won't you now have to explain why you retested and did worse?
 
Nope, just COMLEX and USMLE.




Yes.
Too bad that score's expired (@Goro do schools still see this score?).
Spend an hour taking a Verbal section as if your future career depended on scoring at least 10-11. You'll see why speaking English and being good at physics and chemistry doesn't always translate into high V scores!
 
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