EM and FIRE

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I have worked hard, sacrificed many early years, long residency hours not to reitre living comfortable with 100K/yr. I could easily have done that just working with my engineering degree.

I want to retire in my early 50's and live like I am still making 400K/yr. If my boat dies, I want to buy another. If my wife wants to donate 30K to the church, no sweat. If we want to take a 2 month European vacation so beat it. If she wants to do a 100K house renovation, so be it.

I don't want to retire on anything less than 300K/yr so even at 5M and 4% withdrawal, that is not enough.

This is why I want 300K in rental income before I feel retired. People always need a place to stay even if the market tanks 30% which happens often. When the market corrects 30% during covid, my rents were not affected. This is the greatness of rentals, people still need a place to live.

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Ok, what about the fact that there was an eviction moratorium in place, and your tenants were unable to pay rent?
 
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I have worked hard, sacrificed many early years, long residency hours not to reitre living comfortable with 100K/yr. I could easily have done that just working with my engineering degree.

I want to retire in my early 50's and live like I am still making 400K/yr. If my boat dies, I want to buy another. If my wife wants to donate 30K to the church, no sweat. If we want to take a 2 month European vacation so beat it. If she wants to do a 100K house renovation, so be it.

I don't want to retire on anything less than 300K/yr so even at 5M and 4% withdrawal, that is not enough.

This is why I want 300K in rental income before I feel retired. People always need a place to stay even if the market tanks 30% which happens often. When the market corrects 30% during covid, my rents were not affected. This is the greatness of rentals, people still need a place to live.
Agree completely. I *could* live in 50-100K income a year, but I don't want to. Why spend so much time in school, doing a stressful job just to retire with a middle class lifestyle? I want to take international trips, stay in nice hotels, and enjoy life. Not stay home and pinch pennies.
 
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Agree completely. I *could* live in 50-100K income a year, but I don't want to. Why spend so much time in school, doing a stressful job just to retire with a middle class lifestyle? I want to take international trips, stay in nice hotels, and enjoy life. Not stay home and pinch pennies.

I can see where you guys are coming from, and that's not wrong. Getting to that point will require more of your time however, and your free time is at an absolute premium. You can always make more money, but you can't make up for lost time.
 
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I can see where you guys are coming from, and that's not wrong. Getting to that point will require more of your time however, and your free time is at an absolute premium. You can always make more money, but you can't make up for lost time.
I agree and this is the personal decision everyone needs to make. Truthfully, most EM docs can work 10 yrs and have enough to retire on 100K/yr.

I also understand the cost of time esp during your healthy years. Nothing is worse than some of my EM partners who spends like drunken sailors then have to work into their 60's with their health/skills failing.

I have a 5M net worth right now. If have sold my homestead, I could be close to paying off all my rentals, live in one of them, and have 200K rental income. If I hated my job and making my family miserable, I prob would go into semi retirement working 4 dys in some FSER/UC. I just have one of the best EM gigs so going to work is still fun.
 
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I agree and this is the personal decision everyone needs to make. Truthfully, most EM docs can work 10 yrs and have enough to retire on 100K/yr.

I also understand the cost of time esp during your healthy years. Nothing is worse than some of my EM partners who spends like drunken sailors then have to work into their 60's with their health/skills failing.

I have a 5M net worth right now. If have sold my homestead, I could be close to paying off all my rentals, live in one of them, and have 200K rental income. If I hated my job and making my family miserable, I prob would go into semi retirement working 4 dys in some FSER/UC. I just have one of the best EM gigs so going to work is still fun.
I don't really think that's true, certainly not in the current climate. Even using a 4% SWR, that's 2.5M. I was lucky, and somehow ended up w/ 1M after 5 years (mild debt burden, good job market w/ lots of moonlighting, good stock market). 2 years ago, I was hopeful for 2M by 10 years and 5M by 20 but I honestly don't see how that could happen now.
 
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"Joy, happiness and the good life come only as unexpected interludes, in the endless, stressful, tense and restless journey to become the person you are." -Dr. George Sheehan
 
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"Joy, happiness and the good life come only as unexpected interludes, in the endless, stressful, tense and restless journey to become the person you are." -Dr. George Sheehan
“Mo money, Mo problems” The Notorious B.I.G.
 
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Agree completely. I *could* live in 50-100K income a year, but I don't want to. Why spend so much time in school, doing a stressful job just to retire with a middle class lifestyle? I want to take international trips, stay in nice hotels, and enjoy life. Not stay home and pinch pennies.

The other thing to remember is that the more time you have on your hands, the more fun (and expensive) stuff you can potentially do!

Vacationing 4 months out of the year (in style) around the world won’t be cheap.
 
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Financial independence and personal finance in general is also a big interest of mine. I'm lucky that my wife was receptive and is now a valuable partner in the process who is in general supportive of the various steps to get there. We have stayed living simple in what I would describe a "resident plus" lifestyle for the 3.5 years post residency for me (9+ years post dental school for her). We try and spend about 10k a month all in between housing, travel, food etc which is pretty close to 5k per person per month as have have fairly equal levels of spending. There have been additional bumps in the road including our wedding and some car purchases that aren't accounted for in the above budget. On the 10k a month I feel like we live very well, though we have a simple apartment and shift spending from housing over to very non-resident extravagant levels for travel, food, wine and of course savings. Ramit Sethi has a great phrase "spend lavishly on the things you love and cut mercilessly on the things that you don't." My goal is to go at least 5 years post residency on this budget and then start to open up the purse strings a bit more and look into the finances of a nice doctor/forever home. Since we live in CA that is likely to be 1.5MM or more unfortunately.

I have thought long and hard about alternative streams of income and keep coming back to medicine as it is just so much more lucrative than the alternatives. When I can make 200-350 an hour it seems best to just do that, pay the inevitable taxes and then put that money to work with investments which provide their own "alternative stream of income". Up until last year I was mainly limited by how many shifts and hours were available, plus how many I could reasonably fit into a given month while maintaining my sanity. Now I've been able to add in some additional SDG admin time, plus hospital admin positions that are all compensated and can fit time around shifts, plus a bit of telemedicine so I can really work a lot and have essentially doubled my income. I'm working super hard right now, but as you are all aware with the shaky trajectory of EM I am wanting to race to FIRE and then decide on the pro/con of major purchases, especially with recurring expenses like a big house vs how much to work vs pursue fatFIRE dreams down the line. We just hit our leanFIRE number late last year and are well on our way to FIRE goal in 1-2 years so I'm pretty excited about our future financial flexibility just 5 years out of residency and plan to cut back a little at that time to "normal" EM work levels of about 120 hrs a month clinical plus some admin and then coasting along from there, decreasingly clinical time every few years so it always feels easier rather than having to step backwards. I do love my job and my ideal "retirement" would involve some sort of admin plus about 4-6 shift a month, though I bet I would be totally out of the game by mid 50s and moved on to some other encore career after.

Regarding real estate, living in CA the rent/purchase ratios are so out of whack that it doesn't seem like a great idea. I have been researching a number of private equity real estate sponsors and have settled on a few that I'm investing heavily into in order to get some good real estate exposure in my portfolio while letting some experts find some great opportunities. Once you have a trusted sponsor and do a few hours of due diligence for each deal it's pretty much completely hands off. Historical returns have been in the 12-17% range IRR for lots of the deals in the space I'm investing in, so if that continues even at a heavy discount I'll still be very happy and it's replaced my prior bond/cash allocation making up 35-40% of portfolio. My wife is looking to go part time in dentistry in the next few years and we will be looking into getting at least 1-2 in person properties even if they aren't amazing deals if they allow us to claim real estate professional status for her. Through 2022 you can also do accelerated depreciation on real estate which allows extra losses to be passed through against active income, so for the right property the 100-500k depreciation that can be passed through to my income with incredibly high tax rate could provide enough savings to have even a prior poor investment CA property become a reasonable deal.
 
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I can see where you guys are coming from, and that's not wrong. Getting to that point will require more of your time however, and your free time is at an absolute premium. You can always make more money, but you can't make up for lost time.

"The best thing to save for retirement is yourself."

That was said by my grandfather who worked in HR for a large company. He had terrible heart disease in an era when treatment for MI was morphine and rest. He died when my mom was 21. I got his name.

I'm hoping for a combination of health, time and money. Not sure what the sweet spot is.
 
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The other thing to remember is that the more time you have on your hands, the more fun (and expensive) stuff you can potentially do!

Vacationing 4 months out of the year (in style) around the world won’t be cheap.

Agreed but worth it. For those of us with no kids, there's no point in leaving any of it left over when we die.
 
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Financial independence and personal finance in general is also a big interest of mine. I'm lucky that my wife was receptive and is now a valuable partner in the process who is in general supportive of the various steps to get there. We have stayed living simple in what I would describe a "resident plus" lifestyle for the 3.5 years post residency for me (9+ years post dental school for her). We try and spend about 10k a month all in between housing, travel, food etc which is pretty close to 5k per person per month as have have fairly equal levels of spending. There have been additional bumps in the road including our wedding and some car purchases that aren't accounted for in the above budget. On the 10k a month I feel like we live very well, though we have a simple apartment and shift spending from housing over to very non-resident extravagant levels for travel, food, wine and of course savings. Ramit Sethi has a great phrase "spend lavishly on the things you love and cut mercilessly on the things that you don't." My goal is to go at least 5 years post residency on this budget and then start to open up the purse strings a bit more and look into the finances of a nice doctor/forever home. Since we live in CA that is likely to be 1.5MM or more unfortunately.

I have thought long and hard about alternative streams of income and keep coming back to medicine as it is just so much more lucrative than the alternatives. When I can make 200-350 an hour it seems best to just do that, pay the inevitable taxes and then put that money to work with investments which provide their own "alternative stream of income". Up until last year I was mainly limited by how many shifts and hours were available, plus how many I could reasonably fit into a given month while maintaining my sanity. Now I've been able to add in some additional SDG admin time, plus hospital admin positions that are all compensated and can fit time around shifts, plus a bit of telemedicine so I can really work a lot and have essentially doubled my income. I'm working super hard right now, but as you are all aware with the shaky trajectory of EM I am wanting to race to FIRE and then decide on the pro/con of major purchases, especially with recurring expenses like a big house vs how much to work vs pursue fatFIRE dreams down the line. We just hit our leanFIRE number late last year and are well on our way to FIRE goal in 1-2 years so I'm pretty excited about our future financial flexibility just 5 years out of residency and plan to cut back a little at that time to "normal" EM work levels of about 120 hrs a month clinical plus some admin and then coasting along from there, decreasingly clinical time every few years so it always feels easier rather than having to step backwards. I do love my job and my ideal "retirement" would involve some sort of admin plus about 4-6 shift a month, though I bet I would be totally out of the game by mid 50s and moved on to some other encore career after.

Regarding real estate, living in CA the rent/purchase ratios are so out of whack that it doesn't seem like a great idea. I have been researching a number of private equity real estate sponsors and have settled on a few that I'm investing heavily into in order to get some good real estate exposure in my portfolio while letting some experts find some great opportunities. Once you have a trusted sponsor and do a few hours of due diligence for each deal it's pretty much completely hands off. Historical returns have been in the 12-17% range IRR for lots of the deals in the space I'm investing in, so if that continues even at a heavy discount I'll still be very happy and it's replaced my prior bond/cash allocation making up 35-40% of portfolio. My wife is looking to go part time in dentistry in the next few years and we will be looking into getting at least 1-2 in person properties even if they aren't amazing deals if they allow us to claim real estate professional status for her. Through 2022 you can also do accelerated depreciation on real estate which allows extra losses to be passed through against active income, so for the right property the 100-500k depreciation that can be passed through to my income with incredibly high tax rate could provide enough savings to have even a prior poor investment CA property become a reasonable deal.
So...have or are planning for kids? If not, you are cruising through easy mode. If you have multiple kids, good luck keeping a 10k/mo spend
 
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So...have or are planning for kids? If not, you are cruising through easy mode. If you have multiple kids, good luck keeping a 10k/mo spend


Ha. If I didn’t have kids (and a wife) I probably could have saved 4-500k a year for the past 15 years. That being said, what would be the point?
 
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Ha. If I didn’t have kids (and a wife) I probably could have saved 4-500k a year for the past 15 years. That being said, what would be the point?
I agree with you.

I have no regrets with wife and kids.

I’m pointing out that being a double income no kids couple is super easy, even with just 100k salary apiece, let alone having doctor income. IMO any physician DINK path to FIRE is just a joke and kinda pointless to discuss.
 
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So what advice would the elders give to new career attendings? I should have a net worth in the black in about two months but won’t have my loans paid off for about a year.

I have a good job that pays well compared to the garbage I see advertised recently, but there is little to no hope of finding a job in the area I’d like to end up in (close to family) - think Denver/Seattle/Socal. Just a murderous job market. Used to be able to do locums out of town and make a good living, but no more.
 
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Im very passionate about personal finance and have been looking at every possibility of FIRE.

I'm just about 2 years out and will hit 600k in net worth next month. Lifestyle is fairly inexpensive with a 2 bedroom townhouse kind of living. Lifestyle inflation will take place end of this year as we move into our 6 bed 5.5 bath home that is being built right now.

Plan to leave my 260/hr 1099 job in 3-4 months and starting a w2 University job - 100k paycut, but excellent benefits, and will no longer be employed by a CMG. I'll finally get to hopefully enjoy a well staffed ER *fingers crossed*.

Even with 600k in liquid assets i believe I've already hit my lean FIRE number. But this will require retirement in pakistan. I'm failing at convincing my wife on that, which is ironic since she's closer to her pakistani roots and has a lot more family than me there. For a retirement in the US, i need 3-4 million.

As of the last 4-5 months I've become increasingly educated on options trading. And essentially am a full time options trader now as well. I'm currently up 40k year to date in my taxable account, which is about a 36-37 percent return over the last 6 months. This compared well with the sp500 that has returned around 20 percent in that time frame. If i don't do anything at all with my account, the way my puts are currently set up, i expect another 40k return in 3-4 months, unless there's a drop in the markets by 20+ percent. If there is, the return gets pushed out in the future. I might be able to generate 80-100k of income from my taxable account this year. Time will tell, half way there already. But options trading i feel is my path to early retirement.

I think once i hit 1M in my taxable account, i will consider myself completely financially free. I will probably be there in 2-3 years.

I also plan on buying my first investment property next year. Real estate is something I've been meaning to get into for a while. After reading a few books and listening to bigger pockets podcasts, i think I'm ready for that step too now. I've also been looking a lot into jumping into a syndication deal as well which may be a lot more hands off and passive.

I did operate a website, i got offered 8k for it and I've sold it. Allowed me to release funds from my business account and put pretty much every extra penny into my taxable broker account to sell put options.
 

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Im very passionate about personal finance and have been looking at every possibility of FIRE.

I'm just about 2 years out and will hit 600k in net worth next month. Lifestyle is fairly inexpensive with a 2 bedroom townhouse kind of living. Lifestyle inflation will take place end of this year as we move into our 6 bed 5.5 bath home that is being built right now.

Plan to leave my 260/hr 1099 job in 3-4 months and starting a w2 University job - 100k paycut, but excellent benefits, and will no longer be employed by a CMG. I'll finally get to hopefully enjoy a well staffed ER *fingers crossed*.

Even with 600k in liquid assets i believe I've already hit my lean FIRE number. But this will require retirement in pakistan. I'm failing at convincing my wife on that, which is ironic since she's closer to her pakistani roots and has a lot more family than me there. For a retirement in the US, i need 3-4 million.

As of the last 4-5 months I've become increasingly educated on options trading. And essentially am a full time options trader now as well. I'm currently up 40k year to date in my taxable account, which is about a 36-37 percent return over the last 6 months. This compared well with the sp500 that has returned around 20 percent in that time frame. If i don't do anything at all with my account, the way my puts are currently set up, i expect another 40k return in 3-4 months, unless there's a drop in the markets by 20+ percent. If there is, the return gets pushed out in the future. I might be able to generate 80-100k of income from my taxable account this year. Time will tell, half way there already. But options trading i feel is my path to early retirement.

I think once i hit 1M in my taxable account, i will consider myself completely financially free. I will probably be there in 2-3 years.

I also plan on buying my first investment property next year. Real estate is something I've been meaning to get into for a while. After reading a few books and listening to bigger pockets podcasts, i think I'm ready for that step too now. I've also been looking a lot into jumping into a syndication deal as well which may be a lot more hands off and passive.

I did operate a website, i got offered 8k for it and I've sold it. Allowed me to release funds from my business account and put pretty much every extra penny into my taxable broker account to sell put options.
I am in a very similar boat. For motivation of you new grads who are considering fire, this guy knows exactly whats up.

I am 10 months out from residency. I took a very high paying rural job (250/hr w benefits and anything over my 14 shifts was 300/hr). I worked approx 200 hours a month these past 10 months and plan to for 2 more. My net worth is about 4-500k cash. I don't own anything except a beat up 10 year old car that I love. I gained about 100k during this bull market run trading options and buying and selling stocks i liked. Selling covered calls when you have atleast 6 figures in an account is (almost) a guaranteed way of income in some regard. I plan to buy an investment property soon , maybe in a year or two and pay for it in full.

if you are willing to sacrifice for even one year and get your roots in, there is absolutely no excuse to retiring early. The only barrier to this now is finding jobs like the post above me noted or the one i have. If you find it, hold onto it for as long as you can. If you burn out after a year, take a few months off. You'll be able to afford it.
 
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So what advice would the elders give to new career attendings? I should have a net worth in the black in about two months but won’t have my loans paid off for about a year.

I have a good job that pays well compared to the garbage I see advertised recently, but there is little to no hope of finding a job in the area I’d like to end up in (close to family) - think Denver/Seattle/Socal. Just a murderous job market. Used to be able to do locums out of town and make a good living, but no more.
Retrain in another field....
 
Currently considering fellowship vs moving abroad to somewhere you can still make a good living...

What are you considering, and what's the current employment status?
 
What are you considering, and what's the current employment status?
Pain, EMS fellowship in my hometown (would love to parlay this into a full-time government job with some PT clinical work but nothing is guaranteed), IM critical care (don't have the energy for this right now).

Abroad: Australia, obtain Australasian board certification then work between Oz and NZ. Oz is still paying wages close to the US in some places. Have thought about doing a prehospital/retrieval fellowship in Australia as they have a pretty robust system where physicians fly.

Would also consider more obscure places like Western Europe (Ireland, Denmark, Iceland, etc). Bermuda. Canada.

Currently have a good, stable W2 hospital-employed gig that I like. I like my colleagues and the place is a gem. Pays well compared to what my friends are making. It's just in a very isolated area and very far away from family.
 
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Yep. We now pay for medical school, and our salaries aren't keeping pace.
Medicine is imploding in the US for everyone except administrators- patients are not valued, nor are clinicians.
Ireland's EM has many problems. NZ does not pay, although I hear it's great otherwise.
Canada is great, along with Oz.
 
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Yep. We now pay for medical school, and our salaries aren't keeping pace.
Medicine is imploding in the US for everyone except administrators- patients are not valued, nor are clinicians.
Ireland's EM has many problems. NZ does not pay, although I hear it's great otherwise.
Canada is great, along with Oz.
What's the scoop with Ireland?
 
Financial independence and personal finance in general is also a big interest of mine. I'm lucky that my wife was receptive and is now a valuable partner in the process who is in general supportive of the various steps to get there. We have stayed living simple in what I would describe a "resident plus" lifestyle for the 3.5 years post residency for me (9+ years post dental school for her). We try and spend about 10k a month all in between housing, travel, food etc which is pretty close to 5k per person per month as have have fairly equal levels of spending. There have been additional bumps in the road including our wedding and some car purchases that aren't accounted for in the above budget. On the 10k a month I feel like we live very well, though we have a simple apartment and shift spending from housing over to very non-resident extravagant levels for travel, food, wine and of course savings. Ramit Sethi has a great phrase "spend lavishly on the things you love and cut mercilessly on the things that you don't." My goal is to go at least 5 years post residency on this budget and then start to open up the purse strings a bit more and look into the finances of a nice doctor/forever home. Since we live in CA that is likely to be 1.5MM or more unfortunately.

I have thought long and hard about alternative streams of income and keep coming back to medicine as it is just so much more lucrative than the alternatives. When I can make 200-350 an hour it seems best to just do that, pay the inevitable taxes and then put that money to work with investments which provide their own "alternative stream of income". Up until last year I was mainly limited by how many shifts and hours were available, plus how many I could reasonably fit into a given month while maintaining my sanity. Now I've been able to add in some additional SDG admin time, plus hospital admin positions that are all compensated and can fit time around shifts, plus a bit of telemedicine so I can really work a lot and have essentially doubled my income. I'm working super hard right now, but as you are all aware with the shaky trajectory of EM I am wanting to race to FIRE and then decide on the pro/con of major purchases, especially with recurring expenses like a big house vs how much to work vs pursue fatFIRE dreams down the line. We just hit our leanFIRE number late last year and are well on our way to FIRE goal in 1-2 years so I'm pretty excited about our future financial flexibility just 5 years out of residency and plan to cut back a little at that time to "normal" EM work levels of about 120 hrs a month clinical plus some admin and then coasting along from there, decreasingly clinical time every few years so it always feels easier rather than having to step backwards. I do love my job and my ideal "retirement" would involve some sort of admin plus about 4-6 shift a month, though I bet I would be totally out of the game by mid 50s and moved on to some other encore career after.

Regarding real estate, living in CA the rent/purchase ratios are so out of whack that it doesn't seem like a great idea. I have been researching a number of private equity real estate sponsors and have settled on a few that I'm investing heavily into in order to get some good real estate exposure in my portfolio while letting some experts find some great opportunities. Once you have a trusted sponsor and do a few hours of due diligence for each deal it's pretty much completely hands off. Historical returns have been in the 12-17% range IRR for lots of the deals in the space I'm investing in, so if that continues even at a heavy discount I'll still be very happy and it's replaced my prior bond/cash allocation making up 35-40% of portfolio. My wife is looking to go part time in dentistry in the next few years and we will be looking into getting at least 1-2 in person properties even if they aren't amazing deals if they allow us to claim real estate professional status for her. Through 2022 you can also do accelerated depreciation on real estate which allows extra losses to be passed through against active income, so for the right property the 100-500k depreciation that can be passed through to my income with incredibly high tax rate could provide enough savings to have even a prior poor investment CA property become a reasonable deal.
You won’t be able to qualify for Real estate professional status if she works as a dentist and you own 2 rental properties
 
You won’t be able to qualify for Real estate professional status if she works as a dentist and you own 2 rental properties
Real estate professional status is perfect for a married couple where one keeps working and has a high income while the other either doesn't work, or works a maximum of part time with more traditional employment. Specifically, REPS requires more than 50% of your work to be real estate related, and real estate taking up a minimum of 750 hours in a year. In our case, the decreased salary from cutting from full time to part time will be more than offset by passthrough depreciation onto my income. With a foot in the door of physical real estate you can also invest in private equity deals that are more hands off but still pass through large amounts of depreciation (my deal from last year passed through 37% of the initial investment amount as a "loss" for the year which could have been passed through to income and have been huge if we were doing the REPS)...ie don't pay on income which is taxed at federal and state marginal tax rates plus medicare surcharge, then you would be responsible for gains on the investment later but only have to pay capital gains tax rates on those which are more favorable, some with a possibility of 1031 exchange for indefinite tax deferral.

Here is a good resource for those unfamiliar: A Primer on Real Estate Professional Status for Physicians - Semi-Retired MD
 
Real estate professional status is perfect for a married couple where one keeps working and has a high income while the other either doesn't work, or works a maximum of part time with more traditional employment. Specifically, REPS requires more than 50% of your work to be real estate related, and real estate taking up a minimum of 750 hours in a year. In our case, the decreased salary from cutting from full time to part time will be more than offset by passthrough depreciation onto my income. With a foot in the door of physical real estate you can also invest in private equity deals that are more hands off but still pass through large amounts of depreciation (my deal from last year passed through 37% of the initial investment amount as a "loss" for the year which could have been passed through to income and have been huge if we were doing the REPS)...ie don't pay on income which is taxed at federal and state marginal tax rates plus medicare surcharge, then you would be responsible for gains on the investment later but only have to pay capital gains tax rates on those which are more favorable, some with a possibility of 1031 exchange for indefinite tax deferral.

Here is a good resource for those unfamiliar: A Primer on Real Estate Professional Status for Physicians - Semi-Retired MD
I’m not sure why you gave me more info on reps, I’m quite familiar with it and I was simply letting you know that 2 rental properties while working part time will not qualify as it doesn’t meet the requirements
 
I’m not sure why you gave me more info on reps, I’m quite familiar with it and I was simply letting you know that 2 rental properties while working part time will not qualify as it doesn’t meet the requirements
Why not?
 
Because more than 50 percent of your time
needs to be spent on real estate, if she’s working part time as a dentist and you only have 2 rental properties there’s not a chance that could be true. Furthermore 2 rental properties in general is not enough because you have to spend about 2 hours every day on real estate and 2 rentals there’s not enough work for 2 hours a day
 
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Yesterday I went online and started playing with retirement calculators. It's amazing how much the estimates vary when you start tweaking the variable.

Inflation: 1%? 2%?

Will I need to live on 60% my preretirement income or 80%? Will that be the same when I'm 65, 75 or 85?

Will I live to 75, 85? 90? What about my spouse?

Will my income rise 3% yearly? 5% yearly? Will it fall?

How much will my investments grow?

How much will I get in social security? When will I start taking it? Will it be there for me at all?


It's amazing how much the final calculation can change based on tweaking these variables, many of which are hard to be very certain about.


I guess the big picture is to determine, am I getting within striking distance? How close to the target am I with each different scenario?
 
I'm not investing in cryptos. I do think some form of crypto currency will be here to stay. But I don't like the volatility. I'm sure some people will get rich on it. Ultra-high volatility investments just aren't for me.

It reminds me when I put some money in tech stocks right before the dot com crash of 2000. I lost what felt like a lot of money at the time. It wasn't, but it was a good lesson.

Crypto also reminds me of a friend trying to get me to buy "penny stocks" even before that. They'd be worth $0.02 per share. Then they'd go up to $1.00. You'd get rich. Unless you were the guy that bought at $1 hoping they'd go to $10 and they went back to $0.02, then you became poor.

I'm happy to sit this one out.
 
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I'm not investing in cryptos. I do think some form of crypto currency will be here to stay. But I don't like the volatility. I'm sure some people will get rich on it. Ultra-high volatility investments just aren't for me.

It reminds me when I put some money in tech stocks right before the dot com crash of 2000. I lost what felt like a lot of money at the time. It wasn't, but it was a good lesson.

Crypto also reminds me of a friend trying to get me to buy "penny stocks" even before that. They'd be worth $0.02 per share. Then they'd go up to $1.00. You'd get rich. Unless you were the guy that bought at $1 hoping they'd go to $10 and they went back to $0.02, then you became poor.

I'm happy to sit this one out.
Crypto is extremely volatile...extremely...but the overall trend will almost certainly be upward. And upward by a lot. Especialy with bigger currencies, such at Bitcoin and Ethereum.
 
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Crypto is extremely volatile...extremely...but the overall trend will almost certainly be upward. And upward by a lot. Especialy with bigger currencies, such at Bitcoin and Ethereum.
How much have you invested in it?
 
Aerospace medicine peaked my interest too, but it looks like you need to be able to fly? I don't have 20/20 vision lol so I guess that will count against me. Starting pay is around $200k a year with good benefits if i'm not mistaken, so not great.


Yeah I kind of lucked out in that I headed to texas in 2015, when the job market was red hot. Paid off 350k loans in 2.5 years, and saved up enough to make a 50% downpayment on the house, and have a half mil invested. Unfortunately now between multiple FSED part time jobs pulling 180-200 hrs a month, which makes up for reduced income. The 2.5 million dollar question for me is can I continue making this money for the next ten years? If yes, I can keep socking away 10g's a month and hit FIRE in the next 8 to 10 years. But I just don't know what is going to happen. Geographically tied to my city so can't really move.

Like others, I've mostly thrown in my lot with the stock market. Would like to dabble in real estate, and get at least one positive cash flow rental property. But have zero experience, and comfort level is not high here.

EDIT: Also put in a decent chunk of funds into promising startups aka ‘angel investing’. These investments are risky as plenty of startups fail. But you only need one or two to make it to IPO status to make bank. The other plus is any gains you make from startup investing are 100% tax free upto $10 million,
Per the QSBS law - only applies to US startups though.
How are you investing in start up? I've only seem microvebtures and similar which the fees have deterred me from
 
How much have you invested in it?

I personally finally gave up and put a couple Grand in doge and etherium. Up 50% or so in a couple of weeks. Will slowly increase stake with every downturn.

But i have a fair appetite for risk given my entire taxable portfolio of 400k is options only - selling strangles now.
 
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I personally finally gave up and put a couple Grand in doge and etherium. Up 50% or so in a couple of weeks. Will slowly increase stake with every downturn.

But i have a fair appetite for risk given my entire taxable portfolio of 400k is options only - selling strangles now.
Well, thanks to Elon, doge is down a third today!
 
How are you investing in start up? I've only seem microvebtures and similar which the fees have deterred me from

Lots of places. My favorite startup platforms in particular are StartEngine.com (kevin O'Leary's outfit), and Republic. They do charge a small transaction fee, and additional cut of the profits are also levied if the company takes off and actually becomes successful.
 
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Well, thanks to Elon, doge is down a third today!

I sort of understand why some people believe in Bitcoin because more of it cannot be created (aside from the problem other crypto currencies can be made and none really backed by armies with guns).

I totally don’t understand why dogecoin is worth anything- as they could create a zillion more of those tomorrow?
 
I sort of understand why some people believe in Bitcoin because more of it cannot be created (aside from the problem other crypto currencies can be made and none really backed by armies with guns).

I totally don’t understand why dogecoin is worth anything- as they could create a zillion more of those tomorrow?
Neither do I. I wonder if it's a "cult of personality". However, I've not done my due diligence. Since my residence is in New York, they won't let me buy it, anyways!
 
I personally finally gave up and put a couple Grand in doge and etherium. Up 50% or so in a couple of weeks. Will slowly increase stake with every downturn.

But i have a fair appetite for risk given my entire taxable portfolio of 400k is options only - selling strangles now.
I've been into eth since 2017. I'm really not complaining.

As with what Birdstrike said, it is uber volatile. I was still buying when it spiked to 800 and then dropped down to 300 a few weeks later. That was disheartening, but I just stopped watching the price and ignored it for a year. That worked well. That said, it could all come crashing down to 0 any day, which is why I don't factor my crypto holdings into my retirement plans at all.

If it tanks, I'm still on track to retire. If it keeps doing what it's doing, I'll retire earlier.

Either way, I'm a strong believer in ethereum both as a tech and as a currency.

Disclaimer: I am in no way advocating that anyone buy eth. Look into it yourself if you're interested. Don't ever put in anything more than you are 100% willing to lose.
 
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Neither do I. I wonder if it's a "cult of personality". However, I've not done my due diligence. Since my residence is in New York, they won't let me buy it, anyways!

I'm not recommending you buy it. I don't own any crypto. But...
 
I totally don’t understand why dogecoin is worth anything- as they could create a zillion more of those tomorrow?
Ever think about the fact that people are buying cryptocurrencies, so they can get US dollars? Isn't that a little ironic? If crypto is "worth so much more" than US dollars, then why the hell are we hoping we can get crypto, to sell crypto, to get more US dollars? Wouldn't goal be to end up with more crytpo, if it truly is going to be the endgame currency that's "worth so much more"?

It makes you wonder if crypto will turn out to be a way for the creators of crypto to get the masses to turn their US dollars over to them, in exchange for something that will end up being worthless.
 
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Question for crypto buyers. What if:

The US government bans crypto (which admittedly wouldn't eliminate it) but renders it worthless for 99% of the population?

The US government comes out with its own cryptocurrency (which also doesn't eliminate crypto) but drives 99% of the population towards a crypto they perceive as stable and safer?

Couldn't those things literally crash the prices to zero, overnight?
 
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Question for crypto buyers:

What if the US government decides to ban crypto, or regulate it so heavily, no one wants it anymore?

Or, what if it comes out with its own cryptocurrency and the masses decide they trust a government back crypto, more than one non-government backed?

Couldn't those things literally crash the prices to zero, overnight?
Yes..it’s a risk my friend no gamble no future
 
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Ever think about the fact that people are buying cryptocurrencies, so they can get US dollars? Isn't that a little ironic? If crypto is "worth so much more" than US dollars, then why the hell are we hoping we can get crypto, to sell crypto, to get more US dollars? Wouldn't goal be to end up with more crytpo, if it truly is going to be the endgame currency that's "worth so much more"?

It makes you wonder if crypto will turn out to be a way for the creators of crypto to get the masses to turn their US dollars over to them, in exchange for something that will end up being worthless.
Crypto mania is a side effect of the ultra liquidity and endless QE propped by the fed for the past 13 years since the GFC.

This is good.

Inflating bubbles are opportunities for little retail people like us to take advantage. A way to build wealth fast, for those of us who lack the $100million of capital to be offered juicy venture capital or private equity investments that the Big Boys routinely use to get richer.

Just don’t drink the kool aid and go “all in” or “diamond hands” “never sell” nonsense. Recognize the bubble, get in, and get out with your gains. I’ve gotten 150% return off of ETH alone over last several months. This is not normal. Do not get sucked in and “invest for the long term”; allocate to your risk tolerance
 
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