Program-Specific Info / Q's Employment OTD v MOT

[S00n2BOT]

Hi Everyone,

I am currently considering pursuing a master's at my much cheaper state school, or getting an OTD at a well known out of state school with a very good reputation. Since I am heavily considering the master's at the state school (solely for financial reasons), I started looking into PP-OTD's and then even went on to do a job search to see what it was currently like. I am concerned because I saw a few job posts requiring at least a master's or stating bachelor's but master's "preferred." Keep in mind this was a very quick job search from two different websites and I did not select a specific location but rather looked into cities around the country. My point is, is this common? And if this is actually occurring even though bachelor degree holders likely have more experience, than who is to say the same won't happen in the future once OTD's become more common? I have seen that one of the main points made by many of you for why not to pursue an OTD (aside from the cost) is that the OTD will not give you better job opportunities or pay, but will this hold true far into the future?

Any comments/thoughts would be great! I start OT school this summer/fall and as a student it is difficult to make any predictions on the matter.

Thanks again!

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[dobber]

• Go for the Master's, there's no benefit in getting an OTD (other than if that was the only program that you got into)
• People with Bachelor's degrees in OT are getting jobs fine. OT moved to a master's level program for two reasons - they wanted to keep up with other rehab specialties, and they wanted to be taking seriously. Additionally, it teaches students how to do research, which is something that is severely lacking in the field. It won't change, their experience is worth much more than having MS after their name.
• Look at PT - they have a doctorate level program, and they are getting out with an extra year worth of student loans ($150k+) and they aren't making that much more than us. Is it really justifiable?
• Extra: This relates to PT, but my DOR still has her master's in PT even though it's a doctorate. Her experience got her through the door, not her credentials.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. If you ever decide you want an OTD, do it when you're established. But if I could say anything, it'd be to go for your masters.

 

[S00n2BOT]

• Go for the Master's, there's no benefit in getting an OTD (other than if that was the only program that you got into)
• People with Bachelor's degrees in OT are getting jobs fine. OT moved to a master's level program for two reasons - they wanted to keep up with other rehab specialties, and they wanted to be taking seriously. Additionally, it teaches students how to do research, which is something that is severely lacking in the field. It won't change, their experience is worth much more than having MS after their name.
• Look at PT - they have a doctorate level program, and they are getting out with an extra year worth of student loans ($150k+) and they aren't making that much more than us. Is it really justifiable?
• Extra: This relates to PT, but my DOR still has her master's in PT even though it's a doctorate. Her experience got her through the door, not her credentials.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. If you ever decide you want an OTD, do it when you're established. But if I could say anything, it'd be to go for your masters.

I agree with every bit you are saying! Not worth the debt. However, why do I see job offerings requiring a master's and not just a bachelor's? If this already happens at some places who is to say they won't prefer an OTD in the future? That is what I am concerned about. What if I get my master's, skip out on a highly ranked OTD program, and then years down the line when I am applying for jobs I see that OTD's are "preferred," just like I see master's "preferred" now.

I would save TONS by just getting my master's at the state school, but if I decide to go back and do my PP-OTD, that would take up more time than if I had just gotten my OTD to begin with since it is only a few more months than the master's program. Time is money! Plus, I would have to pay for a post professional OTD, so would I even be saving that much money if I get my master's and then pursue the OTD?

 

[atroposlachesis]

I'm in the same dilemma myself. I may decide to do Master's. BUT. I have seen a lot of jobs in academia & management that require an academic doctorate in a rehab science, including the OTD. Many want the OTD specifically. So I think there are advantages to the OTD if you build some experience after school. Is it worth the cost? Up to you.

 

[S00n2BOT]

I'm in the same dilemma myself. I may decide to do Master's. BUT. I have seen a lot of jobs in academia & management that require an academic doctorate in a rehab science, including the OTD. Many want the OTD specifically. So I think there are advantages to the OTD if you build some experience after school. Is it worth the cost? Up to you.

Exactly! I think they have an advantage.. and that advantage will only grow as more OTD's start popping up.

We can always go back and do an extra year or two while working to get the OTD if we deem it necessary. The only downfall is that while that would save us quite a bit of money, there is an inconvenience in the time spent to do so. If I decide to do the OTD now, it is literally just a semester longer than the master's I am looking into, but is is SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.

What is better.. Investing extra time? Or extra money?

 

[atroposlachesis]

I think it depends entirely on where you want to go. I'm doing the same back and forth myself, but am leaning towards the OTD mainly because I'm going to a program where the research opportunities are plentiful and research has always been a passion. However, at the school I'm going to, it's a whole year longer. For you, if it's only a semester, I would ask yourself if you see yourself in research, admin, or teaching. If you see yourself in any of those three, I'd say it's worth it. If not, MSOT.

Good luck!!

 

[occupationalguy]

This topic has been covered for what seems like hundreds of times. This is the gist/highlights of my thoughts as a clinician: The OTD is not worth the added debt.

1. No one cares if you have an OTD or BS or MOT - My director of rehab in a globally known hospital had a BS. Most do. He stated directly that OTDs do not make a red cent more than MOT entry level applicants due to the degree. It is next to insignificant as to what university you went to. Select a university with good NBCOT pass rates, and solid faculty, avoid schools which charges you 100k+ for an entry level degree. A few schools come to mind: St Augustine, Samuel Merrit. Choose solid state schools with cheap tuition, and great pass rates. Many schools come to mind! No, not all are hard to get into, and some look only at the last 60 credit hours earned.

2. You will not have an advantage in academic opportunities. If academics are your desired route you will be more competitive with a PhD on top of your MOT. Many faculty members have a MOT with another MS such as Healthcare Policy etc, and many others yet simply have a lot of experience with an MOT. There is a STRONG push for research now, so a PhD will really help.

3. Factor in the added debt. Is it worth the 30, 50k extra for this degree? Don't forget about that car payment you'll have, and house payment, and if you plan on having kids, don't forget about those payments. Don't forget about compounded interest, that EXTRA 50k will become 100-150k once you actually pay it off. Don't forget to factor in the lost earnings you have due to spending more time in school. There's another 30k.

4. Ask clinicians in the field. You will find that the vast majority see this as a designer degree. Do not be wowed by the alphabet soup after a person's name. I do understand a practicing clinician with years of experience going back and getting an OTD (theyre often paid for by the institution which has selected you for this), but I can't see the utility in a entry level clinician electively paying more for this degree than an MOT.

 

[occupationalguy]

• Go for the Master's, there's no benefit in getting an OTD (other than if that was the only program that you got into)
• People with Bachelor's degrees in OT are getting jobs fine. OT moved to a master's level program for two reasons - they wanted to keep up with other rehab specialties, and they wanted to be taking seriously. Additionally, it teaches students how to do research, which is something that is severely lacking in the field. It won't change, their experience is worth much more than having MS after their name.
• Look at PT - they have a doctorate level program, and they are getting out with an extra year worth of student loans ($150k+) and they aren't making that much more than us. Is it really justifiable?
• Extra: This relates to PT, but my DOR still has her master's in PT even though it's a doctorate. Her experience got her through the door, not her credentials.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. If you ever decide you want an OTD, do it when you're established. But if I could say anything, it'd be to go for your masters.

Your words to God's ears. Green students need to hear your post, repeated ad infinitum. The name of the game is "license to practice." Same with nearly all degrees in the medical field. OT BS degree holders are on equal footing with MS and OTD candidates for jobs. You don't get an advatange from that degree. As for salaries, our salary is nearly identical to PTs and we have a lot less debt than they do. I've openly heard my PT colleagues state that PT is fast becoming a losing proposition: why take on 150k in debt, med school is a bit more debt, and earns you 4 times as much. PA school is less debt (it's a MS and in some case ASSOCIATES DEGREE and earns 30% more than PT and OT.

 

[winnie1234]

Hi Everyone,

I am currently considering pursuing a master's at my much cheaper state school, or getting an OTD at a well known out of state school with a very good reputation. Since I am heavily considering the master's at the state school (solely for financial reasons), I started looking into PP-OTD's and then even went on to do a job search to see what it was currently like. I am concerned because I saw a few job posts requiring at least a master's or stating bachelor's but master's "preferred." Keep in mind this was a very quick job search from two different websites and I did not select a specific location but rather looked into cities around the country. My point is, is this common? And if this is actually occurring even though bachelor degree holders likely have more experience, than who is to say the same won't happen in the future once OTD's become more common? I have seen that one of the main points made by many of you for why not to pursue an OTD (aside from the cost) is that the OTD will not give you better job opportunities or pay, but will this hold true far into the future?

Any comments/thoughts would be great! I start OT school this summer/fall and as a student it is difficult to make any predictions on the matter.

Thanks again!

As a second year MOT student who was in the same boat as you, I can wholeheartedly say unless you are looking to do research/go into academia, or would like to pursue a clinical doctorate, it is not necessary to get your OTD at this time! I was accepted into a great program that used to offer a master's, but they eliminated that to implement an entry-level OTD only. When it came down to it, I couldn't justify the cost to become an entry level clinician-I was looking at 180,000 dollars in loans for a 3 year program. Obscene for a degree that would have me working in the same position that many still hold bachelor's degrees as qualification. All of the OTs that I did my observation hours with were appalled at the amount of money the program cost, and all agreed that it was not necessary. Additionally, companies care less about what school you graduated from than your experience. I feel like those schools with the OTD programs try to scare you into thinking that you will eventually need an OTD to practice...they have their eyes on your wallet the entire time their lips are moving. I ended up going with the cheapest of the three programs I was accepted to and I couldn't be happier with my decision, I love my cohort, love the faculty- I am learning SO much from their wide range of expertise, and my fieldwork opportunities have been fantastic. There is always the option to go back and get another degree under your belt, but when it came down to weighing spending $60,000 for another letter on my degree, or entering the workforce and earning $60,000 and a years's worth of clinical experience, it was a no-brainer. Hope that helps!!

 

[S00n2BOT]

Please keep in mind my idea hinges solely on the fact I have looked up OT job positions and have found quite a few that say "master's preferred" or in some instances require the master's. Who is to say down the line (when I am much older of course), there won't be "OTD preferred" positions?

That being said, I can't rationalize having to spend the extra 50k. So what are your thoughts on a post-professional OTD (assuming after years in the field I realize I need one)? @winnie1234 @dobber @occupationalguy 

 

[winnie1234]

Please keep in mind my idea hinges solely on the fact I have looked up OT job positions and have found quite a few that say "master's preferred" or in some instances require the master's. Who is to say down the line (when I am much older of course), there won't be "OTD preferred" positions?

That being said, I can't rationalize having to spend the extra 50k. So what are your thoughts on a post-professional OTD (assuming after years in the field I realize I need one)? @winnie1234 @dobber @occupationalguy 

My thoughts are that having a few years of experience working in the field will help you to identify those areas that you are most interested in/passionate about which could shape your path for future research proposals, if pursuing an OTD is what you want to do. To me, this is the trajectory that makes the most sense, as the clinical experience is SO much different than sitting in the classroom...I honestly think having a few years of experience should be a requirement of these programs (if it is not already. I haven't looked into it much). Additionally, many of the programs are distance based/online, so you could potentially work in the field while working on your OTD. Finally, unless the programs change much, what I have seen in terms of OTD programs mostly is that they put you on the research/academia track, or program director/ rehab manager...not as many clinical doctorates out there, so I don't see it being an imminent requirement for clinical work. My 2 cents.

 

[atroposlachesis]

I think these are all very fair points. And, as someone who is grappling with the same decision and not yet a practicing OT, my perspective comes with more than a few grains of salt.

But, again, I have seen a LOT of job openings for PT/OT faculty that require an academic doctorate in a rehab field. All of these are of course contingent on experience. But there are a ton of openings, and the OTD is being mentioned consistently by name. Here's just a few I found:

For an Associate Professor position in Texas: "Earned PhD in Occupational Therapy, Rehabilitation Sciences or other related discipline, or OTD"

For full-time tenure-track faculty in Ohio: "Doctoral degree in Occupational Therapy"

Tenure-track faculty position in Florida: "Terminal degree (Ph. D., Ed.D, OTD, PsyD, Sc.D., or other related terminal degree) in appropriate area of specialization."

Associate Professor position in Cali: "Required education will be an earned PhD degree in occupational therapy, rehabilitation sciences, or other related discipline or an OTD."

Yes, a PhD is the best route for faculty positions, especially if you want to do top-funded research at top schools. But I think that the OTD's status as a "designer degree" with no practical job application is quickly changing. It makes sense. More people are wanting to become OTs, more schools are capitalizing on this, more faculty are needed. Whether that justifies the considerably high expense for individual students is still up for debate. I'm going to be thinking very carefully about this. Thank you again for your input!