end of carib schools???

[polycythemia]

what do you guys think is the future of caribbean schools?
It wont affect me i am assuming because i am a third year with only 15 months to go...but what about the future students..as in 2012 and beyond. The reason I am writing this is because i realized something. The step 1 and 2CK is supposedly going to be combined starting in a few years..at first i thought this was a rumor but apparently my buddies in M1 and M2 got a memo from their deans saying stating this change in the near future...also I heard that this test is will be pass/fail and to be taken at the end of 4th year..if that is the case...then were would FMG/IMG's be in this picture?? also with the massive DO school enrollment increases as well as the new opening of DO schools..not to mention MD schools in the US are increasing enrollment and a few new MD schools are starting up in 2010..i think unfortunately this could be the last 5-10 years for caribbean schools. however the basis of my argument is strong if 1) the step 1 and 2 get combined and IS pass fail
any thoughts?

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[giantaxon]

...

 

[puchi]

Would you say that the top 4 will survive?? Or are all carib schools doomed?

I surely think that Ross and SGU will try to shift their efforts to enroll more students from Canada. They are all about the $$$$!

And US med schools are expanding?? They need to hurry up with that! LOL. However I don't know if MD schools expanding along with new DO schools opening would be enough to grant spots for the 1000s of applicants. The ratio of graduating doctors and the need for MDs is just too much. Hopefully things will change for the future.

 

[McGillGrad]

I love these baseless rumor posts.. they mean absolutely nothing but they get people all riled up.

Stop spreading false rumors and then making false assumptions from those rumors...

 

[oldpro]

what do you guys think is the future of caribbean schools?
It wont affect me i am assuming because i am a third year with only 15 months to go...but what about the future students..as in 2012 and beyond. The reason I am writing this is because i realized something. The step 1 and 2CK is supposedly going to be combined starting in a few years..at first i thought this was a rumor but apparently my buddies in M1 and M2 got a memo from their deans saying stating this change in the near future.

OK its just being talked about it seems, anyway the students will prepare for this as they do today.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Ok folks, lets focus on some facts here:

1. The USMLE is considering changing the format of the exams. The two major changes being discussed are changing to a two exam process (rather than the current three step process) and changing to a pass/fail format. You can read all about this on the USMLE website here. You can also post your thoughts on their discussion board.

2. Program Directors (at least in Internal Medicine) are highly critical of the pass/fail idea. If you're interested, you can review the threads on the board about this.

3. Either, or neither, of these will be implemented. It's still unclear. It seems very hypocritical for med school deans to want the USMLE's to be pass/fail, yet continue to use MCAT scores to decide who gets into medical school. Make the MCAT pass/fail first and we'll talk.

4. If the USMLE is actually made P/F, then I think it's very likely that PD's will find a secure exam to give students instead. Obvious options would be the NBME shelf exams, or perhaps the ITE's (In Training Exams), or a new exam administered by some testing center. Chances are it would be administered by the USMLE itself. Sounds like a scam in the making, doesn't it? Now you'll have to pay them for the USMLE's AND some sort of specialty exam....

 

[JoeNamaMD]

International medical schools will be an option for a while, it is getting harder for IMGs to match into residencies in the US though.

 

[McGillGrad]

International medical schools will be an option for a while, it is getting harder for IMGs to match into residencies in the US though.

That is your opinion.

 

[oldpro]

International medical schools will be an option for a while, it is getting harder for IMGs to match into residencies in the US though.

This is your opinion,
We have discussed this before and it is a waste to argue about this.

you seem to feel to post negative things all the time, Sorry that people can go outside the USA and still do well, you seem jealous?

 

[MDPWR]

International medical schools will be an option for a while, it is getting harder for IMGs to match into residencies in the US though.

I don't think so, not anytime soon at least. As long as you score decent and get good LORS it's totally possible to get in.

I can definitely say that, its little easy to get into a US residency if you don't have to worry about visa issues. Canadians will have less trouble getting the visa, as compared to students coming from India, China etc., Again these are just my thoughts, I'm no immigration lolz.

Good Luck evr1

 

[nancee12]

As far as new US DO/MD schools opening up or increasing enrollment - I don't see how that is bad news for students that go to Caribbean. It's not like they attend offshore schools by choice.
In fact, this is a good thing b/c more students will then end up being accepted stateside and the need to go offshore will be lessened. I don't see how that is a bad thing unless you run one of these schools lol.
In other words, for example, the higher tier Carib students may become US MDs, and the middle/lower will remain. The latter would still be competing against the "new US MDs" like they would have been against the "better qualified" kids that might have been in their Carib class.
The increased # of US MD/DOs are not going to magically appear out of thin air. Their matriculation will increase concurrently with the decrease in apps to the Caribbean.
Now, these schools may or may not try to cater to Canadian students or start accepting the students they previously rejected, and so the situation will reach a different homeostatic point. These students can be glad they got in and/or be realistically wary of their future depending the competitiveness of the match in the future. That responsibility is theirs and theirs alone!
The only applicants possibly affected negatively by this would be the true FMGs who will have more US seniors to compete against vs having had other US IMGs to compete against before, compared to whom they may have been more similarly competitive., but who knows?

Anyway, not saying this is going to happen or will even have any kind of discernable effect, but this is my logic and I don't see why we're bemoaning the fact that US MD/DO schools are opening up in the Carribean forum.

 

[oldpro]

Anyway, not saying this is going to happen or will even have any kind of discernable effect, but this is my logic and I don't see why we're bemoaning the fact that US MD/DO schools are opening up in the Carribean forum

Because many people like to "Kick Sand in the face of these people who take shortcuts" Get around the system, I say cool (Rebel that I am) maybe the system is wrong, to heck with them, get the MD anyway you can I say.

I agree that more schools ( most have only 100 to 200 enrollment each year in MD1) will not make much a dent in the Doc shortage we now have.

 

[ScootDoc]

...

 

[MacGyver]

There are 30+ new US med schools in the works guys. Residency slots are not increasing any time soon.

Thirty new medical schools is a TON of graduates, and since we're all competing for the same residency slots, the inevitable conclusion is that FMGs are going to be pushed out in record numbers.

You'd better hope Congress votes to authorize CMS to increase funding for residency slots.

 

[McGillGrad]

You have a citation for that figure or are you guesstimating?

There are 30+ new US med schools in the works guys. Residency slots are not increasing any time soon.

Thirty new medical schools is a TON of graduates, and since we're all competing for the same residency slots, the inevitable conclusion is that FMGs are going to be pushed out in record numbers.

You'd better hope Congress votes to authorize CMS to increase funding for residency slots.

 

[McGillGrad]

Just as I thought, another rumor-queen taking an article talking about 7 schools in various stages OF APPLYING for LCME approval and spinning 30 school out of it.

Give it a rest, sweetheart. Save the drama for your mamma.

 

[AngryBaby]

There are 30+ new US med schools in the works guys. Residency slots are not increasing any time soon.

Thirty new medical schools is a TON of graduates, and since we're all competing for the same residency slots, the inevitable conclusion is that FMGs are going to be pushed out in record numbers.

You'd better hope Congress votes to authorize CMS to increase funding for residency slots.

Well, except that it won't affect us very much if at all because we'll have graduated before any of these new schools (7 or 30 or 300) can pump out any grads of their own. Additionally many of the future borderline/waitlisted applicants will no longer have to go to offshore schools but will be able to stay home in the states for all 4 years at one of the new schools.

I fail to see how this is bad for many of the students at the big 4.

 

[oldpro]

There are 30+ new US med schools in the works guys. Residency slots are not increasing any time soon.

Thirty new medical schools is a TON of graduates, and since we're all competing for the same residency slots, the inevitable conclusion is that FMGs are going to be pushed out in record numbers.

You'd better hope Congress votes to authorize CMS to increase funding for residency slots.

Well you are incorrect, I know of two new programs that will come on line in the next 5 years, residency spots will increase to meet the demand and there is a great need for the Cheap help at the hospitals, a full time Hospitalist is around 270 to 350K a year, that is the cost of at least 7 residents, so many hospitals do not want to hire too many of the Hospitalists when they could have on or two and 5 or so residents .............. this is the reality of economics.

 

[MDPWR]

what do you guys think is the future of caribbean schools?
It wont affect me i am assuming because i am a third year with only 15 months to go...but what about the future students..as in 2012 and beyond. The reason I am writing this is because i realized something. The step 1 and 2CK is supposedly going to be combined starting in a few years..at first i thought this was a rumor but apparently my buddies in M1 and M2 got a memo from their deans saying stating this change in the near future...also I heard that this test is will be pass/fail and to be taken at the end of 4th year..if that is the case...then were would FMG/IMG's be in this picture?? also with the massive DO school enrollment increases as well as the new opening of DO schools..not to mention MD schools in the US are increasing enrollment and a few new MD schools are starting up in 2010..i think unfortunately this could be the last 5-10 years for caribbean schools. however the basis of my argument is strong if 1) the step 1 and 2 get combined and IS pass fail
any thoughts?

A doctor at work who got to into an excellent Urology residency, after going to school at University of Witwatersrand and yes he is a IMG from South Africa, his brother is also going to the same school. In the words of this doc "If you want it bad, you can always get it, look at me I'm your standing prove. The American Anesthesiologist saying out loud "We are happy to have yaa." Now go get it done, take the nay sayers with a grain of salt. Work hard and make it happen!!

No more replies from me on this blog.

Thanks.

 

[Faebinder]

Wow at first I thouht you guys just like to argue but now I am sure no one cares for evidence even when it's presented.

Here in Florida, (one hour away from me) University of Central Florida medical college opened last year (free tuition for first year class for being the first class ever).

There is a list of newly approved DO and MD schools... No med school was allowed to open in the last 20 years still recently. You guys can deny reality all you want.

Here is the Allopathic:

**************************************


Allopathic Medical Schools


FSU has the newest allopathic medical school in the US created in 2001

“The Florida State University College of Medicine (FSU COM) was
created in June 2000 by a legislative act, Florida House Bill
1121/Senate Bill 1692, to serve the unique needs of the citizens of
the state of Florida.”
http://registrar.fsu.edu/bulletin/archive/2001_2003/colleges/medicine.htm


“Florida State University is a Carnegie classified Doctoral/Research
Extensive institution of higher learning encompassing 16 colleges and
schools, including the nation's newest accredited medical school, with
1,700 faculty and a total enrollment over 38,000 students.”
http://www.hispanicoutlook.com/listings_focus.htm?id=10926


Medical School Expansion Plans


University of Central Florida (UCF)- 2008

“In March 2006, the University of Central Florida (UCF) received
approval from the state’s Board of Governors to establish a new
medical school in Orlando, Florida. UCF
presented the school as an opportunity for Florida to bring new
businesses and jobs to the area and therefore increased tax revenue
for the state. The school hopes to have its first class of 40 admitted
as early as 2008.”


Florida International University (FIU) - 2008

“Florida International University (FIU) also received approval from
the state’s Board of Governors in March 2006 to establish a new
medical school in Miami. FIU also pitched the school as an economic
opportunity for the state and projected the state would receive over
$1 billion per year in economic benefits, mainly derived from spin-off
businesses related to the new school. The doctor shortage was also a
part of the debate. The school hopes enroll its first class of 36
students in 2008 and increase enrollment to 120 per year by 2015.”


Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) - 2008

“Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) is actively seeking to
bring a four year medical campus to Eugene, Oregon, in partnership
with PeaceHealth. The details of how the medical school program will
be split between the Eugene campus and the main OHSU site are still up
in the air and could include having students split time between the
two campuses and/or having some students spend all four years in
Eugene. Students could be on campus within two years, according to
University Senior Vice President and Provost
John Mosely.”



The University of Arizona branch campus in Phoenix - 2007

“The University of Arizona is in the process of developing a branch
campus in Phoenix, with ambitions of training up to 150 students by
2015. UA has enough state funds to begin enrolling the initial 24
first-year students in its Phoenix campus in 2007.

Source: Table 4 -5
AAMC 2005 Survey of U.S. Medical Schools
Center for Workforce Studies
April 2006
http://www.aamc.org/workforce/enroll.pdf

Here is the Osteopathic:

Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine
Bradenton Campus (LECOM - Bradenton)
Founding date: 2004
http://www.aacom.org/colleges/lecom-bradenton.asp


Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
Georgia Campus (PCOM - GA)
Founding date: 2004
PCOM–Georgia Campus proudly welcomed its first class of 85 students in
August 2005. http://www.aacom.org/colleges/pcom-ga.asp


Touro University - Nevada Touro University College of Osteopathic
Medicine (TUCOM-NV)
Henderson, NV
(A Branch Campus of TUCOM-CA)
Founding date: 2004
Affiliation: Touro College, New York
http://www.aacom.org/colleges/tucom-nv.asp


Source:
Osteopathic Medical College Information
http://www.aacom.org/colleges/


The following colleges are expected to begin instruction in the fall of 2007.

A.T. Still University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic
Medicine – Mesa (Ariz.)

Lincoln Memorial University College of Osteopathic Medicine (Harrogate, Tenn.).

Excerpt:

“The osteopathic family continues to grow with two new osteopathic
medical schools being granted pre-accreditation status at the December
2005 Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (COCA) meeting.

In December of 2005, the AOA’s COCA granted initial pre-accreditation
status to the A.T. Still University of Health Sciences College of
Osteopathic Medicine – Mesa (Ariz.) and to the Lincoln Memorial
University College of Osteopathic Medicine (Harrogate, Tenn.). Both
colleges are expected to begin instruction in the fall of 2007.

Prior to 1980, there were 14 osteopathic medical schools. Since then,
six additional schools and three branch campuses have been established
with more expected to open before the decade is over. Currently, 20
osteopathic medical schools offer instruction at 23 locations; the
most recent addition being the Georgia - Philadelphia College of
Osteopathic Medicine campus.”

American Osteopathic Association
http://www.do-online.osteotech.org/index.cfm?PageID=sir_oms0306lmedschools

As for evidence that residency has caps and wont increase without congress approval. Here is an article about it with plenty of links. What you are seeing is the shifting of positions from one residency to another (like 107 FM positions closing and combined 107 EM and IM opening). Occasionally, some private positions open... but overall medicare caps remain the same. No increase in medicare supply of government money to pay for teaching more residents. This has been up since Hillary Clinton took over healthcare in 1998.

Any other denials?

 

[polycythemia]

also another allopathic school is taking its first class in 2010 - oakland university/william beaumont medical school in detroit.....expected class size is 150-200..just thought I would add that also

 

[Instatewaiter]

By my count there are around 12 new schools
* The Commonwealth Medical College, Scranton, Pa.
* Hofstra University School of Medicine, Hempstead, N.Y.
* Oakland University Beaumont Medical School, Rochester, Mich.
* Florida International University College of Medicine, Miami.
* Paul L. Foster School of Medicine, El Paso, Texas.
* Touro University College of Medicine, Hackensack, N.J.
* University of Central Florida College of Medicine, Orlando.
* A.T. Still University
* Lincoln Memorial University-DeBusk College of Osteopathic
* Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences, C
* Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Parker, Colo.
* Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine in New York.

In addition to adding schools, most allopathic schools are increasing enrollment. In the last 2 years my school has increased enrollment by 4% and I believe they plan to increase enrollment every year for the next decade.

Residency slots are capped at 1997 levels. Not likely to increase anytime soon.

Most of this wont affect IMGs for a while but once these schools start putting out more students you know where the buck is going to be passed to.

 

[oldpro]

By my count there are around 12 new schools
* The Commonwealth Medical College, Scranton, Pa.
* Hofstra University School of Medicine, Hempstead, N.Y.
* Oakland University Beaumont Medical School, Rochester, Mich.
* Florida International University College of Medicine, Miami.
* Paul L. Foster School of Medicine, El Paso, Texas.
* Touro University College of Medicine, Hackensack, N.J.
* University of Central Florida College of Medicine, Orlando.
* A.T. Still University
* Lincoln Memorial University-DeBusk College of Osteopathic
* Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences, C
* Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Parker, Colo.
* Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine in New York.

In addition to adding schools, most allopathic schools are increasing enrollment. In the last 2 years my school has increased enrollment by 4% and I believe they plan to increase enrollment every year for the next decade.

Residency slots are capped at 1997 levels. Not likely to increase anytime soon.

Most of this wont affect IMGs for a while but once these schools start putting out more students you know where the buck is going to be passed to.

Look I have to say.........so what? I hate this debate

60% of qualified applicants get rejected from US schools so you are going to tell me all this adds up to over 10,000 seats and lets not forget those who are just below acceptable GPA's and MCATs who are not qualified for US schools and still attend the Caribbean schools

This = to thousands more

so you can post what you will but others listen to me, this is just a lot of nonsense. Caribbean schools will not be affected.

 

[AngryBaby]

Ugh, you guys continue to miss the point.

More US medical schools mean many students that would have to go overseas could now do their schooling in the US. This is a good thing!

You are talking to (mostly) students that have already started overseas. As a result, we will have graduated before these schools begin to "squeeze" us regarding residency spots.

Get it?? It's a good thing that more medical schools are opening because that means many students that would otherwise be borderline can now go to medical school in the US.

I don't understand the confusion here.

Wow at first I thouht you guys just like to argue but now I am sure no one cares for evidence even when it's presented.

Here in Florida, (one hour away from me) University of Central Florida medical college opened last year (free tuition for first year class for being the first class ever).

There is a list of newly approved DO and MD schools... No med school was allowed to open in the last 20 years still recently. You guys can deny reality all you want.

Here is the Allopathic:



Here is the Osteopathic:



As for evidence that residency has caps and wont increase without congress approval. Here is an article about it with plenty of links. What you are seeing is the shifting of positions from one residency to another (like 107 FM positions closing and combined 107 EM and IM opening). Occasionally, some private positions open... but overall medicare caps remain the same. No increase in medicare supply of government money to pay for teaching more residents. This has been up since Hillary Clinton took over healthcare in 1998.

Any other denials?

 

[polycythemia]

Angrybaby, that is my point exactly!!! nothing wrong with carib or schools outside the US..that is not what i am arguing. What I am trying to do is get opinions on what people think about the rapid increase in DO and MD class size not to mention the rapidly opening of new DO and MD schools that are starting to occur now. The end of carib schools isnt bad as many students from US and canada can enter more US schools instead of going offshore. That is all I am trying to say. People here get so defensive. As it stands the number of residency progams is fixed but the number of new MD DO students is increasing by a lot now. You can defend for or against carib schools all you want but that isnt what im concerned about. I want to know if in the next 15 years the option of going to the caribbean for medical school will be obsolete. thats it.

I agree with oldpro that for some reason there will ALWAYS be students during undergrad who are subpar and must seek out alternative options- that is why i think only 1 or 2 offshore schools will surive by the year 2020..any thoughts?

 

[oldpro]

Ugh, you guys continue to miss the point.

More US medical schools mean many students that would have to go overseas could now do their schooling in the US. This is a good thing!

You are talking to (mostly) students that have already started overseas. As a result, we will have graduated before these schools begin to "squeeze" us regarding residency spots.

Get it?? It's a good thing that more medical schools are opening because that means many students that would otherwise be borderline can now go to medical school in the US.

I don't understand the confusion here.

no Confusion, but I beg to differ the US is better for education , it is better because of the Discrimination that is carried on by the programs. US grads should not have any better chance at a residency then fully qualified FMG's I think this is missed by all the bleeding hearts out there. Equal opportunity should be the order of the day for qualified grads.

Grads from the UK are great Docs
Grads from Ireland are great DOCS
Many grads from Caribbean schools are Great Docs
I can go on and on.......... Yet we have to suffer the ugly stepsister stuff all the time

Good luck everyone.

 

[ScootDoc]

...

 

[AngryBaby]

Angrybaby, that is my point exactly!!! nothing wrong with carib or schools outside the US..that is not what i am arguing. What I am trying to do is get opinions on what people think about the rapid increase in DO and MD class size not to mention the rapidly opening of new DO and MD schools that are starting to occur now. The end of carib schools isnt bad as many students from US and canada can enter more US schools instead of going offshore. That is all I am trying to say. People here get so defensive. As it stands the number of residency progams is fixed but the number of new MD DO students is increasing by a lot now. You can defend for or against carib schools all you want but that isnt what im concerned about. I want to know if in the next 15 years the option of going to the caribbean for medical school will be obsolete. thats it.

I agree with oldpro that for some reason there will ALWAYS be students during undergrad who are subpar and must seek out alternative options- that is why i think only 1 or 2 offshore schools will surive by the year 2020..any thoughts?

I wasn't referring to anything you said in my previous post; I quoted Faebinder actually. And I wasn't getting defensive, "exasperated" would be more apt.

Anyway I haven't seen you say anything yet that's ticked me off, but Faebinder and MacGyver's thought that opening up more US schools is bad for all USIMG's seems pretty common. Few of them seem to get that if there were an additional 30 US schools then a lot of us in the big 4 would be in the states right now and so it's a good thing that future, qualified US applicants will have that opportunity. I get frustrated because they can't seem to understand that for some reason.

I'm very appreciative of SGU and have no problems with the education I've been getting so far, but I would trade it for a US allo spot in a heartbeat.

 

[AngryBaby]

no Confusion, but I beg to differ the US is better for education , it is better because of the Discrimination that is carried on by the programs. US grads should not have any better chance at a residency then fully qualified FMG's I think this is missed by all the bleeding hearts out there. Equal opportunity should be the order of the day for qualified grads.

Grads from the UK are great Docs
Grads from Ireland are great DOCS
Many grads from Caribbean schools are Great Docs
I can go on and on.......... Yet we have to suffer the ugly stepsister stuff all the time

Good luck everyone.

Well regardless of whether or not the US is good/better for medical education, the fact that it's better for residency placement is indisputable and obviously that's important.

 

[oldpro]

Well regardless of whether or not the US is good/better for medical education, the fact that it's better for residency placement is indisputable and obviously that's important.

Yes and thats the part of the ugly American, we should be ashamed of how snobby we are. Other countries can teach medicine as well ( as you can tell this is a button for me ) LOL!

 

[McGillGrad]

Ok. I'm done. Flame on!!!!!!!

No flaming necessary. You're going to be a DO, so your "professional" life will punish you more than we ever could.

 

[ScootDoc]

...

 

[McGillGrad]

Sure you do. And I go to Harvard. You are full of it. Anyone can lie on the internet: why are you so embarrassed to be a DO?

You might want to check again. University of Utah is an Allopathic school. More "professional" than you will ever dream of.

**McGillGrad runs and hides in some corner on an island in the Caribbean knowing that he will only practice medicine in the shadow of every US grad and his choice to go FMG will punish him the rest of his life.....**

How do you like them apples?

Get the facts straight ***!

 

[ScootDoc]

...

 

[McGillGrad]

You can make up all the lies you want, but you cannot hide from your true self.

Be proud to be a DO. Not everyone can be an MD...not everyone's meant to be.

Well, HARVARD

I am as much a DO student as you will be a doctor.......ZERO(0).

Go ahead and check my previous posts. I am most definitely attending UofU SOM, and I am most definitely an "MD" student. You know the real kind, not one from a diploma mill.

If I remember right, aren't you a SABA student. I always see you blabbing about how students don't need to take the MCAT. Of course I'm sure you did, thinking of course that you would do well enough to get into a US or Canadian school, but I guess your 17 on the MCAT kept you from your dreams of becoming some doc hotshot.......you'll have to settle for second class....

***WARNING: This does not apply to all Caribbean students...just those who try to make themselves look like they are more than what they are***

BTW, I would have gone to a DO school ten times over before going to a diploma mill.....Even as an MD student I do not look down on the Osteopaths. DO schools turn out way better docs than SABA. If you don't belive me again look at the stats....Residency Program directors can sniff out good docs and SABAs stats/match list smell like my ***!

Why do I waste my time on ****s like you? hmmm....that almost makes me as big a loser as you! Suck!

 

[McGillGrad]

You do realize that I control you by making you repy to my posts, right? I own you and your insecurities...lol...

The fact that you get so emotional over a complete stranger says a lot about your self-esteem

[EDIT Removed post]

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Foreign medical schools will be a viable path to US licensure for a while, the issue is that for certain competitive fields, you will have to prove yourself to be better than a US graduate.

 

[golfpropsychguy]

I love these baseless rumor posts.. they mean absolutely nothing but they get people all riled up.

Stop spreading false rumors and then making false assumptions from those rumors...

I'm laughing my As$ off reading it. God, i can't believe people buy into this crap.

I am currently in the match for residency and am a 4th year at SGU. everywhere I have interviewed no one cares if you went to SGU or are an american school, unless you want something super competitive and the
program is IV leauge.

Just like the step 2 CS being pass/fail why would it matter if step 1 and step 2ck are pass fail. If you pass it thats all that matters.

Guys, just go to med school and study your asses off. Dont worry about all this bull$hit that makes no difference.
GOd where do you people come from???lol....

 

[Iquitos]

His/her opinion must correlate wll with many PDs as well as the rest of the medical community. Can you honestly say that IMGs have just as good of chance filling a residency spot as an US MD? Stats as well as empirical evidence proves you wrong if you do. You advocate equality among IMG and US MD all you want but it is all in vain. The transparency in your claim is obvious, and everyone but IMGs will agree that IMGs don't match as well as US students MD and DO. End of Story!!!

I agree. Check out the AAMC stats for yourself.

 

[polycythemia]

well i sort of regret for even asking this question..people misunderstood me left and right ..from claiming I am spreading false rumors to saying IMGS have an equal shot at residency..all i wanted to know was your analysis of the future of caribbean medical schools that is all..aren't I allowed to think outside of the box ??
I learned a couple of things
1) it is impossible to have a decent conversation on student doctor without digressing into millions of side arguments
2)people always are so critical of what you say on this darn website


anyways I guess this thread should end because very few people have actually contributed anything positive to this discussion.

 

[McGillGrad]

Next time, think before you post and get your facts straight. Then you won't have any problems.

well i sort of regret for even asking this question..people misunderstood me left and right ..from claiming I am spreading false rumors to saying IMGS have an equal shot at residency..all i wanted to know was your analysis of the future of caribbean medical schools that is all..aren't I allowed to think outside of the box ??
I learned a couple of things
1) it is impossible to have a decent conversation on student doctor without digressing into millions of side arguments
2)people always are so critical of what you say on this darn website


anyways I guess this thread should end because very few people have actually contributed anything positive to this discussion.

 

[golfpropsychguy]

well i sort of regret for even asking this question..people misunderstood me left and right ..from claiming I am spreading false rumors to saying IMGS have an equal shot at residency..all i wanted to know was your analysis of the future of caribbean medical schools that is all..aren't I allowed to think outside of the box ??
I learned a couple of things
1) it is impossible to have a decent conversation on student doctor without digressing into millions of side arguments
2)people always are so critical of what you say on this darn website


anyways I guess this thread should end because very few people have actually contributed anything positive to this discussion.

...hold on while I get my violin....GROW SOME BALLS BUDDY!!

 

[Proteinpowda]

I'm laughing my As$ off reading it. God, i can't believe people buy into this crap.

I am currently in the match for residency and am a 4th year at SGU. everywhere I have interviewed no one cares if you went to SGU or are an american school, unless you want something super competitive and the
program is IV leauge.

Just like the step 2 CS being pass/fail why would it matter if step 1 and step 2ck are pass fail. If you pass it thats all that matters.

Guys, just go to med school and study your asses off. Dont worry about all this bull$hit that makes no difference.
GOd where do you people come from???lol....

Question: I have applied to SGU..
So what type of residency are you applying for?

 

[spreebee]

Well, HARVARD

I am as much a DO student as you will be a doctor.......ZERO(0).

Go ahead and check my previous posts. I am most definitely attending UofU SOM, and I am most definitely an "MD" student. You know the real kind, not one from a diploma mill.

If I remember right, aren't you a SABA student. I always see you blabbing about how students don't need to take the MCAT. Of course I'm sure you did, thinking of course that you would do well enough to get into a US or Canadian school, but I guess your 17 on the MCAT kept you from your dreams of becoming some doc hotshot.......you'll have to settle for second class....

***WARNING: This does not apply to all Caribbean students...just those who try to make themselves look like they are more than what they are***

BTW, I would have gone to a DO school ten times over before going to a diploma mill.....Even as an MD student I do not look down on the Osteopaths. DO schools turn out way better docs than SABA. If you don't belive me again look at the stats....Residency Program directors can sniff out good docs and SABAs stats/match list smell like my ***!

Why do I waste my time on ****s like you? hmmm....that almost makes me as big a loser as you! Suck!

I don't know which program it is at Utah SOM (either orthopedics or neurosurgery i think) but an AUC grad is the head of residency / board certified and surgeon himself...

 

[oldpro]

well i sort of regret for even asking this question..people misunderstood me left and right ..from claiming I am spreading false rumors to saying IMGS have an equal shot at residency..all i wanted to know was your analysis of the future of caribbean medical schools that is all..aren't I allowed to think outside of the box ??
I learned a couple of things
1) it is impossible to have a decent conversation on student doctor without digressing into millions of side arguments
2)people always are so critical of what you say on this darn website


anyways I guess this thread should end because very few people have actually contributed anything positive to this discussion.

The Fact is that there are 4 Good Caribbean Schools, then there are about 26 other schools of which only a handful are legit enough to attend.

the Big 4 will not be affected at all

the rest may be some but these schools do not even require an MCAT to be admitted to so you tell me how this affects the qualified candidates and the schools? IMHO NADA.

IMHO very Humble Opinion opening new schools in the USA will have little affect on Caribbean schools.

 

[BrainBuff]

What everyone always seems to forget in these arguments is that it is not the same being a foreign graduate who graduated in his native country and wants to practice or do a residency in the US, as being a US student who had to leave the US and go to a foreign medical school because he is trying to circumvent the fact that he could not get into a US medical school.

Most of these caribbean medical schools were established to cater to american students and are nothing more than private, for profit businesses, hence, their reputations.

IMHO, the more US schools, the less need for caribbean business. Period

 

[oldpro]

What everyone always seems to forget in these arguments is that it is not the same being a foreign graduate who graduated in his native country and wants to practice or do a residency in the US, as being a US student who had to leave the US and go to a foreign medical school because he is trying to circumvent the fact that he could not get into a US medical school.

Most of these caribbean medical schools were established to cater to american students and are nothing more than private, for profit businesses, hence, their reputations.

IMHO, the more US schools, the less need for caribbean business. Period

What you forget is the thousands who meet the requirements for medical school but will never get into a US school because the reality is a higher GPA and MCAT is needed to be accepted, Hence even with the few new US spots it will never never meet the need.

SHort sighted and biased is the standard for most premeds posting that Caribbean schools are different then other foreign schools ( believing that since they are private makes them less then the US schools, Uh what about the private US medical schools, the LCME private schools? more then a few, not all US medical schools are public! Facts Facts friend) , in reality sometimes they are way better then other medical schools in other countries.

I know hard to know the truth eh?

 

[Vermian]

It took awhile to read through all of this, but I wanted to add my measily $0.02 to the discussion. Again, for those of you who don't know me from other posts - graduated AUC 2002 - currently PGY5 neurosurgery.

First of all, everyone seems to forget that the majority of FMG/IMG students are not Caribbean students. The majority are foreign-born foreign-trained physicians - this is not just graduates, but also people who completed their residency training in other countries. The Caribbean students make up a small number of these applicants.

With that in mind, if there are going to be more US spots, one would have to surmise that the proportion of US students headed down to the islands as an alternative means to the ends will decrease. That is considering that these spots in the US will not be taken up by foreign nationals. Yes, that happens. I have a good friend and fellow resident who is from Kenya and graduated from Dartmouth.

It is true that residency spots across the board are not significantly increasing. That increase came with the addition of the 80 hour work week. With most surgical programs affected the most, an alternative to the system had to be introduced in most places (ie - night float, etc.). Do not misinterpret here either, a lot of surgical residents (any field) just don't accurately record their hours. No one wants to get their program in trouble - then be without a program.

So, I would have to say that the Caribbean schools will still survive. There will always be people who need an alternate route to their goal. That number should decrease as the availability in the US increases. This will not be linear though. Overall, people will still get into a residency - maybe not what they wanted right away - but something. This will hold true for US graduates, Caribbean graduates, other country graduates. The demand for physicians keeps increasing, so someone has to fill those jobs.

As someone who has been through all of that and watched a lot of other people go through it, I can say that the path may be rougher for some than others, but you can achieve your goals if you work hard enough and can make sacrifices along the way.

Good luck to all of you.

 

[Top Gun]

Even though there is a rise in available spots in US med schools, I don't think the Caribbean med schools will necessarily come to an end. There will always be some people who have the dream to become a doctor, yet can't make the cut for US schools. The big four schools, like SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba will probably survive. Maybe a few others, like St. Matthew's or MUA-Nevis will too. More than likely the lower-tier Caribbean schools will go out of business, since there will be less of a demand for them. And fewer new Caribbean schools will appear, what with more new US schools opening up.

 

[BrainBuff]

What you forget is the thousands who meet the requirements for medical school but will never get into a US school because the reality is a higher GPA and MCAT is needed to be accepted, Hence even with the few new US spots it will never never meet the need.

SHort sighted and biased is the standard for most premeds posting that Caribbean schools are different then other foreign schools ( believing that since they are private makes them less then the US schools, Uh what about the private US medical schools, the LCME private schools? more then a few, not all US medical schools are public! Facts Facts friend) , in reality sometimes they are way better then other medical schools in other countries.

I know hard to know the truth eh?

Caribbean Schools have an intrinsic problem of reputation unlike schools from other countries ( including Mexico ) which dates back to their history and demographics. Some schools in the 1980s were selling diplomas, the quality of the teachers and the lack of access to patients in the clinics was deplorable, their physical plants pitiful . A small island like the Dominican Republic with .....how many medical schools at one point ?? Monserrat.......with a Medical School??

It is undeniable that the "business" of caribbean medical schools began because of the rejected american students. Still to this date, that's their reason for being. They cater to americans!

There is nothing short sighted nor biased about that. To suggest that any of these schools even compare to an american school is absolutely ridiculous. Are you forgetting the fact that these schools can not even sustain their students the whole 4 years and have desperately lobbied through the years to gain access to the US or UK schools and hospitals for their clinical rotations?

FMGs used to complain that the fact that they had to take a "different exam -ECFMG " than US graduates was discriminatory and that their exam was "harder" because the National Board wanted them to fail. Well, now you have the same exam, and the passing rates are significantly lower than US trained students, for a reason : the quality of their medical school education. Nothing else.