engagement ring...where does the $$ come from?

[Fooman]

I did a search using "ring" but was unable to find anything that would address my question.

I'm a 3rd year medstudent. She's a 2nd year resident. We've been dating for 3+ years now and have every intention of getting married. We were actually engaged once, but had to break it off due to some family conflict on her side. I won't go into it since it's not necessary for this question to be answered, though it was financially related.

How, as a 3rd year medstudent who is living from loan check to loan check, be expected to pay for an engagement ring? I've ring shopped before and they run on average $3G and up. The first one I bought I actually had to take out a private loan. When my girlfriend found out, she felt it was unwise and said she rather me not take out a loan for the second time around, and should save up my money instead. Save?? We all know how difficult that is, especially with the little money we get to begin with. At the same time, I try my best to keep our relationship active by taking her out on dates, paying for some of our weekend vacations, etc. As of now, I'm literally doing the transferring balances between credit cards. Not only that, but I also have to save for the wedding and honeymoon expenses.

So my question to all who have done it before me...did you take out a private loan? Borrow money from relatives? (which to me is essentially the same thing) or did you manage to do so with savings? I see no other option. How do medstudents marry without the help from their parents?

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[lazure]

synthetic diamonds

 

[BDavis]

I
So my question to all who have done it before me...did you take out a private loan? Borrow money from relatives? (which to me is essentially the same thing) or did you manage to do so with savings? I see no other option. How do medstudents marry without the help from their parents?

When I bought an engagement ring for my wife I had to apply for a new credit card from the jewelry store that had a 0% interest for 1 year. So I saved enough money for 20% down and then allocated enough in my budget so that I could pay off the ring 1 month before the 1 year grace period was up so I would not pay interest (~18-20 APR, which is really high). 1 year after I paid off the engagement ring, I had the diamond reset (instead of getting a wedding band and welding it to the engagement band) into another setting for the wedding ring (we were married 1 year after). I don't know how your monthly budget is set up, but I had about a $100-$150 monthly allocated for eating out/recreational activities which I had to sacrifice towards the ring debit. However I did not have credit card debt or student loan debt coming out of undergraduate school so your budget may be a little more tight in medical school. I assume you are pulling out at least the $8500 in subsidized Stafford loans + whatever the remainder in unsub loans.

Other students in my class were able to get family heirlooms. My wife also gave me the option of buying a much cheaper ring as long as I bought her a much nicer ring later on in life.

 

[delchrys]

here's my question to you (those of you who have sacrificed food money or are thinking of doing something similar):

what the hell did she give up for you?

i am so tired of the engagement/wedding ring drama. the 'want my cake and want to eat it, too' standard is old. ((GENERALIZATION ALERT!!! IF THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU, GREAT. I RECOGNIZE NOT ALL WOMEN FALL INTO THIS CATEGORY. IF YOU DO, AND THIS OFFENDS, STOP LIVING LIFE AS A HYPOCRITE, OR FIND A GUY WHO PUTS UP WITH YOUR CRAP.))
women want the new values of equality and independence given to them, but they want the old values of chivalry and wedding rings and wedding showers to stay.

how about this: have her buy you a big pre-wedding present,and include the receipt. then you buy her a ring worth the same amount.

she finds you buying her a ring on credit unwise, but you should suffer privations to buy her one with cash? give me a break.

wedding traditionalists must die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i are going crazy...

 

[tlew12778]

Being engaged doesn't require a ring. Just ask the question. The ring is just a symbol. It's the promise and intention behind the question that counts.

That said, either get the ring later when you can afford it, or get an affordable ring now (if you have to have one that is). No one says you have to buy a $3k ring. Did you know that the average size of the e-ring in the US is less than 1 ct? You could always upgrade later.

Better yet, why don't you BOTH pay for the ring? I know that some people have problems with this but it's 2004. Come on! Especially if you consider the fact that she is earning more than you (presumably). Marriage is about equal partnership right? So why don't you get a head start now and set up a joint savings account for the ring and the wedding.

 

[JattMed]

At your wedding after having killed yourself into debt for the ring, flamethrower the whole party!
Note: you are not going crazy.......you ARE crazy..........now listen to the voices in your head

 

[mudbug]

So my question to all who have done it before me...did you take out a private loan? Borrow money from relatives? (which to me is essentially the same thing) or did you manage to do so with savings? I see no other option. How do medstudents marry without the help from their parents?

I'm a non-medical chick who got engaged to a med student and we did none of those things; we adjusted our expectations instead. The way we see it putting him through med school comes with some definite financial sacrifices and this was one of them. A lot of the time we have to just let go of expecting our lives to be like "most people's" for the next several years.

When we were talking about picking out rings I told him that I did want a ring as a tangible symbol of our engagement (although I have friends who've gotten engaged without any ring) and I needed it to be comfortable and stand up to long-term wear. I told him I didn't want to spend more than a $200-$300 on it. I was very interested in sapphire rings and we started looking at a bunch of those, but when news that we were ring shopping made it through my family, I was offered my grandmother's diamond. .16 carats. We got it put in a great setting for $175 and I'm thrilled with it. Soon after we got engaged I got him a similarly priced watch as an engagement gift and had it engraved.

My granfather would say you've got "champagne tastes and a beer budget." Until you're both attendings (at least you have that to look forward to) I'd advise working on enjoying the taste of beer.

Good luck!

 

[Fooman]

Thanks for all the replies. I realize that there are options out there. Savings, unfortunately, does not work for me. Credit card, though evil, seem to be the only way at this particular point.

I've asked about synthetic diamond. That's a big NO. She wants the real thing, which I can understand. I've thought about getting a small, cheaper one the second time around, but it would seem bad since the first one I gave her was a really nice .9ct solitaire from Tiffany's. For all the females here, how would you feel if your guy gave you a smaller one the second time around?

I guess I should bring up that my girlfriend and especially her family are traditionalists, at least when it comes to marriage. The whole reason why we are no longer engaged is because of her parents not understanding the dynamics of life being a medical student, even though their daughter was once one. They believe that before I can get engaged to her, I should have the financial ability to care for their daughter. (don't forget that I'm the student here, she's the one making the salary). This wouldn't have been a problem had I chosen another career. Anyway, I wanted to avoid any conflicts with my future in-laws so I obliged and after speaking with my gf, she and I thought it was best that I returned the ring. There was no reason in keeping it and paying interest for it.

This was almost a year ago. Nowadays, I sometimes get frustrated just thinking about it which is why I posted on here. I'd like to get her a nice one the first time around and not have to get one later on. I'm also not too keen on getting heirlooms from family either. Plus, in Asian culture, it's the guy who pays for the wedding and honeymoon. I have no idea where that money will come from either. Luckily, I've convinced her that we'll share that financial burden together, half-half.

 

[MJTig]

I've ring shopped before and they run on average $3G and up. The first one I bought I actually had to take out a private loan.

First of all how big of a ring are we talking here? Are the two of you being unrealistic in what she wants? (I am a big believer of being realisitc about this rock being bought, and think the marriage is more important than a ring).
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EDIT: OK, now I have read that last post, what happened to the other ring? I assume you sold it and have since spent that money on necessities (not blaming you for that, in fact I would expect it would have had to be done )... were you in a different financial state then? I think getting her a smaller one is fine now, and if she complains- first of all have a little chat about fairness and reality- say that it was what you could give now and if she wasn't happy she can wait another few years or help you out.

You may have an uphill battle with the family and what she was raised to expect. *hug*
~~~~~

Second, look into BlueNile.com - they do build your own ring, and some very nice ones (although my idea of nice and your GF's idea may be very different) are only $1000-$1500, or look around at antique stores or pawn shops and see if there is an unique one that may be less... or at least a nice setting, then you can buy a diamond separate. Jewelers hike up the prices like mad, and there are ways to find something lower price and still very nice. Even try Ebay!

 

[Biogirl361]

to that guy that thinks women's rights and equalities mean that guys don't have to treat them well anymore... what are you thinking? yes, both partners in a relationship should put forth equal effort to do nice things for one another, but i don't see what women wanting to have careers and whatnot has to do with it.

also, for those guys who think the woman should have to pay for her own ring or at least split it, especially the "what did they ever give up for me" and "why don't you go buy me a big present" comments... the woman eventually has to buy you a wedding ring as well, and she or her parents usually pay for the bulk of the wedding.

now, for ideas on how to work the ring... i told my boyfriend (we are both in the process of applying to dental school) that he can buy me a small inexpensive ring now and upgrade it later when we can afford to. it is the thought that counts, and after school is done we will have the money to buy lots of nice things.

 

[relatively prime]

to that guy that thinks women's rights and equalities mean that guys don't have to treat them well anymore....

SInce when does "treating well" neccessarily mean buying a diamond ring?!

I agree with the dude who said it's an unfair tradition. It is. Seriously, what DOES the guy get in return? I know some people will say "her love and happiness"... well, I'm sorry, but 1) her love and happiness shouldn't be able to be bought with a ring... 2) she should be getting his love and happiness too! (hopefully that much would be an equal exchange!)


I'm not saying people shouldn't do it if they want to... but a guy shouldn't feel obligated when it's going to be financially stressfull.

 

[delchrys]

i admit, i'm so in love with the woman i'm with, i actively WANT to put the best-quality, prettiest diamond on her finger that i can. at the same time, she wants the expenditure to be prudent, and she recognizes that whether i pay for it with cash, or credit, or barter with cows, it is coming out of the pot of income and debts that she will inherit when she marries me, just as i will assume her debts and such when we marry. i guess if she "excpected" a ring and, what's more, one of a certain value, and then tried to dictate in what manner i paid for it...well, she could go find a guy who is superficial like her to marry. luckily, i got the best woman alive, so that's not an issue.

 

[BDavis]

Plus, in Asian culture, it's the guy who pays for the wedding and honeymoon. I have no idea where that money will come from either. Luckily, I've convinced her that we'll share that financial burden together, half-half.

Ah, the crucial piece of information; the phrase "Asian culture". I am in an interracial marriage with an Asian and I too have had to compromise with cultural boundaries and expectations. With regards to the ring, you can try the credit card thing, but make sure you budget carefully to pay for it before the interest gets charged. I was also in the same position for the wedding, but I then realized that Vietnamese wedding gifts are usually money (and quite generous too). We booked the wedding at a Vietnamese restaurant and only had to put down a small down payment. For the Vietnamese wedding dresses we actually had measurements made here in the states and had people in Vietnam make the clothes for really cheap. For the honeymoon I used frequent flyer miles to get the flight and paid for a package on a credit card. After the Vietnamese wedding was all said and done we had plenty of money to pay off the wedding costs and honeymoon which my spouse was more than happy to chip in half for (we just never told our parents).

This may or may not apply to your situation, but I hope it helps somewhat and that if you plan things out carefully, you might get everything you want - ring, wedding and honeymoon.

 

[relatively prime]

i admit, i'm so in love with the woman i'm with, i actively WANT to put the best-quality, prettiest diamond on her finger that i can. at the same time, she wants the expenditure to be prudent, and she recognizes that whether i pay for it with cash, or credit, or barter with cows, it is coming out of the pot of income and debts that she will inherit when she marries me, just as i will assume her debts and such when we marry. i guess if she "excpected" a ring and, what's more, one of a certain value, and then tried to dictate in what manner i paid for it...well, she could go find a guy who is superficial like her to marry. luckily, i got the best woman alive, so that's not an issue.

That's awesome. In that case, it is kinda like you're both paying for the ring.

Congrats by the way

 

[Biogirl361]

Seriously, what DOES the guy get in return?

she has to buy you a ring also remember, and she and/or her parents pay for most of the wedding itself. weddings are really expensive too, way more than her ring.

 

[relatively prime]

she has to buy you a ring also remember, and she and/or her parents pay for most of the wedding itself. weddings are really expensive too, way more than her ring.

But that doesn't always happen. And when it does, that means the bride and her family basically have all say in how the wedding goes and where it will be.

 

[DrMom]

at the same time, she wants the expenditure to be prudent, and she recognizes that whether i pay for it with cash, or credit, or barter with cows, it is coming out of the pot of income and debts that she will inherit when she marries me, just as i will assume her debts and such when we marry.

Mr. DrMom & I basically pooled our $ a year or so before we actually married, making what you mentioned quite clear.

We got engaged when we were both college students & joked about the 2-months'-income "standard" for engagement rings. 2 * $0 still = $0

 

[delchrys]

DrMom: LOL

Relatively Prime: thanks!

Biogirl361: I'm not sure if you've been living in America, 21st century, or if you've been living in America 19th century, or what, but nowadays most couples pay for their own wedding. And as for her buying him his ring...I have yet to see a guy wearing a 10k wedding ring, but i've seen lots of women wearing those. a 300-400 band for a guy is nothing like a 3k+ wedding ring for a woman. nothing.

 

[GeneGoddess]

Does every engagement ring have to be a huge diamond? Dude, if you can't afford an expensive ring, DON'T GET ONE! It's just a piece of jewelry! I begged my husband to get me a cheap ring because I'd rather spend the money on a house or a trip somewhere. Heck, our wedding rings are titanium (which I love - they are SO light) and were $100 each. Not having an expensive ring doesn't mean that you love her less. I think that her parents need to get their priorities in order: a person who loves and emotionally supports their daughter is what they should want! Whether or not he can give her expensive jewelry is beside the point!

A cousin of mine (7th grade) goes to a very rich, exclusive private school. When I got engaged, she told me that a friend of hers goes around saying that she "wouldn't say yes to ANYTHING under three carats." WTF? It's just an overpriced piece of compressed carbon!

Sorry, it's just a huge pet peeve of mine that people consider diamond rings necessary and that size equates love.

 

[MDSpouse]

I think his fiance's parents were probably trying to be realistic about what it is like living on a very fixed budget and are trying to save you the stress. Trust me, it can be stressfull and it is so hard when you aren't married but are feeling the warm-fuzzies of getting engaged to listen to other people's advice regarding some of the realities "post-honeymoon". Listen- money and sex matter in a relationship. Talk about your expectations and the realities of those things within your relationship. (stepping off the soapbox...)

On the note of buying a ring, there are so many options that are affordable. I would suggest buying an estate ring. www.jventure.com has very nice antique rings that will likely be in your price range. A few of my friends have antique engagement rings and they have so much character and are classic-looking. Or, you could get something other than a diamond- sapphire, ruby. You are likely to get more bang for your buck anyways. More importantly, don't let the cost make this a bad experience for you. Take your fiance ring shopping and choose something with which you are both pleased that is in your price range as a med student.

 

[relatively prime]

Another thing to consider... scientists predict that in 20 years they'll be able to economically mass produce diamonds in labs that are actually better than ones found naturallly. So it's not going to be long before all these diamond rings you twisted your butt to pay off aren't going to be worth all that much.